So long WCS

[Chef C Green]

Yeah i'm sure you're all expecting this to be some long drawn out bitching session about "team stacking". Well i'll make it a short one instead so as not to completely disappoint you thread trollers :smirk:.

WCS didn't used to be as bad (or at least i didn't see it being this bad) when I first started a few months back. It was tough leveling for sure, what with human being the only productive class in the beginning to get some real kills. But as time progressed, and more races get unlocked, it was great fun leveling each individually and seeing the highlights of each one. Shadow Hunter with its annoying wards, Spiderman with the fun web-slinging, Magician with its crow clutches (and to think people DIDN'T want crows to use cloak?! too much fun :icon_mrgreen:), even Paranorma with its 2,4,8 consecutive revives with the enemy team camping your corpse. Oh it was great fun, but people eventually stopped enjoying races for these subtle enjoyments. It soon became a game of "I need to win" - which it was from the beginning - but never at the cost of the games enjoyment. We've gotten to that point.

What's worse, when you've tasted overwhelming defeat once or twice, you don't want to go back, which just leads to what is now a problem on the servers. I've tried my best to offer suggestions, attempt to even teams (failing most times cus I just stick with my crowing haha), and try to sway others feelings. For all this trouble, I've seen it get progressively worse and worse, to the point that 5 minutes on the server is enough to make me wanna leave.

I feel sorry that such a capable server has to lose people like me that truly want enjoy the gameplay, but alas, where's the fun now? Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way? Perhaps it's my lack of motivation from playing an appropriate race that keeps me from "fighting back"? Well if enjoying the server means having to constantly play to counter someone else's rampage, instead of fooling around like we used to, then the server's lost its original appeal (imo). I take my leave, in hopes that someday, players will learn it's not only about winning, it's about enjoying the various races we've worked so hard to level.

Sincere Regards,
- Chef

[Assassin]

Damn bro shit can get weak but don't bounce. It's really the leveling of races that gets me. I could play a counter...or I could play something that I need to finish leveling, thus leaving my friends and team at disadvantage. Yes I know I can play other races and hop back and buy tomes..but you just don't level as fast. Idk...I'm almost done leveling too but I don't think it has gotten that bad.

[>>>Shots<<<]

The unbalanced gameplay we have now in wcs is mostly due:
1. Extremely flawed auto-teambalance (not auto assign) system.
2. Very few new races being released
Some obvious solutions:
1. (Easier solution) Release new races so those players who have maxed all races or most races will have new goal in mind while playing wcs. Requiring people who have maxed all races or most races play a weak race when they have the choice to play a stronger race for their team is illogical.
2. (More difficult solution) Alter the auto-teambalance system so that when either ct or t has 2 more wins than the other team, a random person from the winning team (with kill/death ratio greater than 1.0) will be swapped with a random person from losing team (with kill/death ratio less than 1.0).

*PS I'm only offering advice and are in no way intended to insult anyone etc/whatever/incase of flame (norm).*

[ZERO]

Especially given that I am working on a team balance as discussed in the admin section but it will not be in effect until January, it requires reprogramming the wcs engine.

[Chef C Green]

So what happens when your races are all maxed? Will you still enjoy the plethora of races available, or will fighting the opposition to support your team be your goal? Neither is better or worse imo, but I've seen first hand how focusing on either for too long ruins the game. Balance in all aspects is what leaves players with the desire to be better, while giving them the courage to come back for more. You'll still find me in ZMod and GG (and perhaps a surf server if I can find a good host :headache:).

EDIT: See this is why I miss admin, I never know whats going on in the background anymore v.v. Glad to hear bout the Team Balance Zero, and I look forward to hearing how it does come release.

[brett friggin favre]

the fun is in figuring out how to change the balance by raping with different races. for example, i like to rock genocide (really underplayed), undead (also underplayed), and chameleon (fun and confuses the hell out of the other team). I've found out how to best use those races and the items to keep teams from being a problem most of the time. i mean hell a few weeks ago i stated something like 34-1 with undead, don't need a crazy op class to do it.

[WRXJIM]

I agree Chef. I have ZERO desire to level other races, because where is the fun being knifed by a Vaga in your own spawn before you can even finish buying weapons, or being owned by diamonds 12 rounds in a row before you even see the killer 5 seconds into the round...
I'll keep playing my maxed out Human (because Im not very good) so I can at least last more than 5 seconds and have some level of fun against the opposing team of 6-8 L33TS :/ Its always the same people too :/
I dont care what races people play, but when people are deliberately stacking teams so they dont have to face an equally "leveled" (Skilled) player it just kills the fun.
Egos are a funny thing... KDR, 55-2 rounds for the top 3 players on a stacked team... I guess if that is what they need Ill happily oblige, but It is getting less and less appealing to log onto the WCS server :/
Roll on January when we may actually have teams with 3 top players on each to keep things interesting. Gangnam v Geke, Omega v Spasm etc rather than them all on one team. Its actually mouth watering :) Heaven forbid that your KDR ratio or your Rank may be affected ;) lol

[Erdenay]

Roll on January when we may actually have teams with 3 top players on each to keep things interesting. Gangnam v Geke, Omega v Spasm etc rather than them all on one team. Its actually mouth watering :) Heaven forbid that your KDR ratio or your Rank may be affected ;) lol

You Sir, have to be retarded... No offence. i2o4 is so much better than Gekke (Who's not even good, IMHO) and I won't even go into Spasm one.

[WRXJIM]

You Sir, have to be retarded... No offence. i2o4 is so much better than Gekke (Who's not even good, IMHO) and I won't even go into Spasm one.

LOL. No offense taken, but maybe you should learn to spell before you call others retarded ;) Just saying... Especially when its related to such a life changing and incredibly important issue such as WCS Counter Strike :)

All those names I listed are far better than myself, so I still stand by my "retarded" statement ;) Sorry I offended you by not including your name in the list, clearly my point was missed by you. (I agree, Gekke isnt very good. Had I put more than 2 seconds of thought into that statement I could have come up with a far better player to use as an example)

[maynard]

because where is the fun being knifed by a Vaga in your own spawn before you can even finish buying weapons

You're obviously just incredibly slow.

[Bane of Soldiers]

LOL. No offense taken, but maybe you should learn to spell before you call others retarded ;) Just saying..

Sorry to burst your bubble, but offence is a variant spelling of offense as much as colour is of color. Blame American English


Obviously called you retarded because Gekke stands little chance against Gangnam, and Omega has none against Spasm. And that's a funny assumption you made, because his ego isn't so large to be offended that you did not hail him as some lord of WCS....

[WRXJIM]

You're obviously just incredibly slow.

Yeh, that must be it... Considering Im not the one missing the point ;) Also, who said it was happening to me??? It was an "observation" and you know it happens on a couple of maps... ah well, As you were, nothing to see here...

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------


Sorry to burst your bubble, but offence is a variant spelling of offense as much as colour is of color. Blame American English


Obviously called you retarded because Gekke stands little chance against Gangnam, and Omega has none against Spasm. And that's a funny assumption you made, because his ego isn't so large to be offended that you did not hail him as some lord of WCS....

Totally warranted calling someone retarded for such an amateur assumption ;) ... Again, regardless of the crap example (duh) the main point is being missed. I guess its true what they say about arguing on the interweb, ;)

(For what its worth "offence" is the correct way to spell it where I am originally from... ;) )

This has been a fun topic :)

Retard. Out. :)

[brett friggin favre]

dear retard,

you wink too much.

sincerely,
Everyone.

[Spasm]

Yeah i'm sure you're all expecting this to be some long drawn out bitching session about "team stacking". Well i'll make it a short one instead so as not to completely disappoint you thread trollers :smirk:.

WCS didn't used to be as bad (or at least i didn't see it being this bad) when I first started a few months back. It was tough leveling for sure, what with human being the only productive class in the beginning to get some real kills. But as time progressed, and more races get unlocked, it was great fun leveling each individually and seeing the highlights of each one. Shadow Hunter with its annoying wards, Spiderman with the fun web-slinging, Magician with its crow clutches (and to think people DIDN'T want crows to use cloak?! too much fun :icon_mrgreen:), even Paranorma with its 2,4,8 consecutive revives with the enemy team camping your corpse. Oh it was great fun, but people eventually stopped enjoying races for these subtle enjoyments. It soon became a game of "I need to win" - which it was from the beginning - but never at the cost of the games enjoyment. We've gotten to that point.

What's worse, when you've tasted overwhelming defeat once or twice, you don't want to go back, which just leads to what is now a problem on the servers. I've tried my best to offer suggestions, attempt to even teams (failing most times cus I just stick with my crowing haha), and try to sway others feelings. For all this trouble, I've seen it get progressively worse and worse, to the point that 5 minutes on the server is enough to make me wanna leave.

I feel sorry that such a capable server has to lose people like me that truly want enjoy the gameplay, but alas, where's the fun now? Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way? Perhaps it's my lack of motivation from playing an appropriate race that keeps me from "fighting back"? Well if enjoying the server means having to constantly play to counter someone else's rampage, instead of fooling around like we used to, then the server's lost its original appeal (imo). I take my leave, in hopes that someday, players will learn it's not only about winning, it's about enjoying the various races we've worked so hard to level.

Sincere Regards,
- Chef

Three paragraphs, pretty much an essay. =\
You do make a good point about leveling, I miss the old days when your level would keep going up rather then being stuck at max. It would help matters because people would be way more inclined to play other races then the good ones because they would level so much faster. ie. Human is level 150 and Orc is 32. Orc will level extremely faster even if you were not playing as well and people might buy tomes again instead of items. It might also bring back some players that quit wcs due to no reason to level anymore. Especially if a real great race like Eva was sitting at extremely high levels and would have the level requirement changed every so often; keeping a carrot on the stick type approach.

[Xerenix]

Three paragraphs, pretty much an essay. =\
You do make a good point about leveling, I miss the old days when your level would keep going up rather then being stuck at max. It would help matters because people would be way more inclined to play other races then the good ones because they would level so much faster. ie. Human is level 150 and Orc is 32. Orc will level extremely faster even if you were not playing as well and people might buy tomes again instead of items. It might also bring back some players that quit wcs due to no reason to level anymore. Especially if a real great race like Eva was sitting at extremely high levels and would have the level requirement changed every so often; keeping a carrot on the stick type approach.

Pretty much agree with this.

Leveling past max is one of the things i miss from the old WCS.

[maynard]

if you die by a vega before you can purchase a gun, you suck and are slow on a mentally defective level... it's as simple as that.

[Erdenay]

LOL. No offence taken, but maybe you should learn to spell before you call others retarded ;) Just saying... Especially when its related to such a life changing and incredibly important issue such as WCS Counter Strike :)

All those names I listed are far better than myself, so I still stand by my "retarded" statement ;) Sorry I offended you by not including your name in the list, clearly my point was missed by you. (I agree, Gekke isnt very good. Had I put more than 2 seconds of thought into that statement I could have come up with a far better player to use as an example)

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/offence. I believe I can spell quite well, thank you :) Just saying...

Actually, Omega *may* be better than you, but Gekke's bad. I've not seem him do well barring in a stacked team with crypt lord. I am not needed in the list as I'm not better than either Spasm or i2o4 - you can easily take any top 20 player barring Lion and Cheezay (maybe Maynard too) and they'd do much better against Spasm/i2o4.

Re: your main point - I doubt that will be happening. It would be quite nice, but as of now, as far as I'm aware nothing has been done just yet. I wouldn't get overly-optimistic.

[SCRIBBLE]

Pretty much agree with this.

Leveling past max is one of the things i miss from the old WCS.

This.


if you die by a vega before you can purchase a gun, you suck and are slow on a mentally defective level... it's as simple as that.

Also, this.

Everything else in this thread shows me some people have way too much time to waste bickering about absolutely nothing.

[What]

It will get better, some balance features Zero is working on and some hackers getting banned and it will be golden in no time. Stick with it, Hit it, Don't quit it.

[Sin]

Killing people and making them ragequit = fun.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Killing people and making them ragequit = fun.

I miss this.

[Locust]

I miss this.

mikey i miss you

[Meltdown]

wcs is one big testosterone party, just by looking at this thread makes me wanna make me throw up. people think so much of them selfs that they hardly make sense anymore. I bet all those big talkers ain't got no irl outside or so.

[Steamer]

wcs is one big testosterone party, just by looking at this thread makes me wanna make me throw up. people think so much of them selfs that they hardly make sense anymore. I bet all those big talkers ain't got no irl outside or so.

Aren't you wasting your time on a forum talking about people having no life outside or so.... :wtg:

[Sin]

wcs is one big testosterone party, just by looking at this thread makes me wanna make me throw up. people think so much of them selfs that they hardly make sense anymore. I bet all those big talkers ain't got no irl outside or so.

wuz dat even werdz?

Does not compute.

[Assassin]

Aren't you wasting your time on a forum talking about people having no life outside or so.... :wtg:

Haha owned.

[What]

wcs is one big testosterone party, just by looking at this thread makes me wanna make me throw up.

I'll Test your Osterone.

[CYBER]

Gangnam v Geke, Omega v Spasm etc rather than them all on one team.

let's not forget here that omega was esp hacking ...

But regardless, this is the worst "balancing" u could have thought.
If anything we should have ;
Gangnam + gekke+ omega ON hacks + the president of the united states VS spasm.


good luck with that Chef...
yesterday I raged hardcore for the balance...
I'd be all happy on the winning team after joining FIRST, got about 3 kills before team balance kicked in...
Finished the game 4-25.. -.-...
I tried EVERY fucking race humanly possible... but balto wouldn't fucking stop stalking my ass (he fucking went 40-1... and i killed him that once -.-) , and even if i EVER almost had him, his stacked teamamtes how up...

I can't say I havent started rage quitting recently, which is smthn i never did before...
It's really getting bad.

Zero, we really need that !scramble option that takes care of limited races.

[CeeCeeBaby]

I can agree with the OP on this one(very new here, don't know everyone yet, sorry) i can't stand going in the server, and just being killed as soon as the game starts. I'm not the best player on counter strike, but when there is only 1 person on the team with 40+ kills and everyone else is at 5 or 8, it just becomes aggravating. I'd love to play and support this clan, but if it isn't fun, then what's the point of staying.
And Maynard.

if you die by a vega before you can purchase a gun, you suck and are slow on a mentally defective level... it's as simple as that.
That's rude and unacceptable. Not everyone can run out of spawn with teleport or speed.

[brett friggin favre]

well that's the thing, you're new. try using the tips we've been giving you to learn how to deal with them. also i'm about to go to class, which means i'll have free time.. :smirk: might whip up a little guide which i'm sure my vagawhore friends will just adore.

[Spasm]

I can agree with the OP on this one(very new here, don't know everyone yet, sorry) i can't stand going in the server, and just being killed as soon as the game starts. I'm not the best player on counter strike, but when there is only 1 person on the team with 40+ kills and everyone else is at 5 or 8, it just becomes aggravating. I'd love to play and support this clan, but if it isn't fun, then what's the point of staying.
And Maynard.

That's rude and unacceptable. Not everyone can run out of spawn with teleport or speed.

I don't know you or how good your regular cs scores are, but if you are decent on pub say around 1.00 kdr, in a month or so of playing wcs you will feel different. WCS is basically a whole new game so you have to basically relearn cs

[What]

I can agree with the OP on this one(very new here, don't know everyone yet, sorry) i can't stand going in the server, and just being killed as soon as the game starts. I'm not the best player on counter strike, but when there is only 1 person on the team with 40+ kills and everyone else is at 5 or 8, it just becomes aggravating. I'd love to play and support this clan, but if it isn't fun, then what's the point of staying.
And Maynard.

That's rude and unacceptable. Not everyone can run out of spawn with teleport or speed.

LOLZ:chillpill: it aint that bad man get a few levels find a race ur good with and youll do fine. everythings not easy from the start.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I can agree with the OP on this one(very new here, don't know everyone yet, sorry) i can't stand going in the server, and just being killed as soon as the game starts. I'm not the best player on counter strike, but when there is only 1 person on the team with 40+ kills and everyone else is at 5 or 8, it just becomes aggravating. I'd love to play and support this clan, but if it isn't fun, then what's the point of staying.
And Maynard.

That's rude and unacceptable. Not everyone can run out of spawn with teleport or speed.

1) read the WCS FAQ. it'll help alot.

2) maynard was 100% correct in what he said. WCS is a very fast-paced and aggressive game. you need to be ready and moving as soon as possible.

[sobobi]

lol, The first time I joined the server and started playing on the opposite team there was : a molecule, a vagabond and a spidey, but I didn't bitch about it and I didn't ragequit, never to be seen again. You see, this community needs players who don't abandon it if they get killed a few times. We need people who continue playing even if they are 1-43 and patiently wait for changes to happen that will improve everybody's experience in the long run. If you really are that weak, noobish and mad, leave the server. We don't need whiny b*tches that cry how vagabond is so "easy" to play and that it should be banned. You gotta know your place on the foodchain. Only the strongest survive and get to be all-maxed.

[LunaTick]

I have to admit, and anyone that recognizes me will know, I agree with some of the sentiments of the OP.

And I'll never stop bitching about team stacking and over powered races. Never. It's just my nature.
But I also rarely quit because of it. And I do come back. I think it'd be better to make these balancing projects of Zero's a bit more public.
To have active feedback between both sides of development would improve many things.
I'd like to see the justification of crit-rates for something like Vagalion's blades.
I'd like to know what progress has been made for team-balancing.
I'd like to have the Man talk to me and let me know what is happening.

But despite this massive lack of response from powers, and just harsh response in game, I'll stick around. Maybe it'll get better?
Doubt it.

And whoever is saying that you need teleport and speed to get a gun and out of spawn before Vagabond finds you- no, you don't. It's easy.
Learn your keys. B, 1, 3. B, 4, 3. B, 6, 2. B, 6, 6. Or, start up your own listen server, set the money start to 16k, buy all your weapons and save your premades.
It's not hard to learn to be efficient in spawn. 3 seconds is enough time.

[Bane of Soldiers]

And whoever is saying that you need teleport and speed to get a gun and out of spawn before Vagabond finds you- no, you don't. It's easy.
Learn your keys. B, 1, 3. B, 4, 3. B, 6, 2. B, 6, 6. Or, start up your own listen server, set the money start to 16k, buy all your weapons and save your premades.
It's not hard to learn to be efficient in spawn. 3 seconds is enough time.

Yup, 100% agree with this. Also, unless you rebind your keys, F2 is binded to rebuy. If you get rushed round after round, that is, for sure, on you. Learn the keys, as LunaTick suggests, and you'd be fine even on round 1. Even faster and easier... bind a key to purchases. A primary, secondary, and armor can be bought with the push of a single button.


I agree that it's annoying and discouraging for noobs, but rushing has got to be one of the most basic and common playing styles across all games. If you won't make the (easy) adjustments to counter it... well, likely it's on you and you have no right to complain

[Passarelli]

I tried EVERY fucking race humanly possible... but balto wouldn't fucking stop stalking my ass (he fucking went 40-1... and i killed him that once -.-) , and even if i EVER almost had him, his stacked teamamtes how up...


I LOLed because Balto got banned for hacking since this post XD

[What]

WTF Pass, was this go around necroing as much shit as possible day?

[Passarelli]

Meh, I was a little depressed today and sat down and actually read some of the forum posts for once. So yes, yes it was necro day for me. XD Sorry about that, I haven't actually been active in a forum for about 4 years and forgot that checking dates on shit is somewhat important. I'll cut back and be more careful what I choose to necro XD

[What]

Meh, I was a little depressed today and sat down and actually read some of the forum posts for once. So yes, yes it was necro day for me. XD Sorry about that, I haven't actually been active in a forum for about 4 years and forgot that checking dates on shit is somewhat important. I'll cut back and be more careful what I choose to necro XD

I really hope you know I'm just fucking with you man.

[Chikun]

Let it get my seal of disapproval.

7121

[Passarelli]

But of course good sir. I find it more fun to fuck with people by acting like I'm taking shit seriously XD That is honestly my preferred way to troll XD

[What]

But of course good sir. I find it more fun to fuck with people by acting like I'm taking shit seriously XD That is honestly my preferred way to troll XD

Well color me Tickled pink.

[Carmichal]

But of course good sir. I find it more fun to fuck with people by acting like I'm taking shit seriously XD That is honestly my preferred way to troll XD

no it isn't

[Passarelli]

Carmichal, I mean this in the nicest possible way (note the classic Italian qualifier). You aren't me, and every person on this earth has a different sense of humor. I'm sorry if mine rubs you the wrong way. ^_^

[Carmichal]

Carmichal, I mean this in the nicest possible way (note the classic Italian qualifier). You aren't me, and every person on this earth has a different sense of humor. I'm sorry if mine rubs you the wrong way. ^_^

African Americans are negros.

[Passarelli]

African Americans are negros.

Truth, just like Italians are Dagoes.

[Carmichal]

Truth, just like Italians are Dagoes.

Keep rocking that extra chromosome.

[Passarelli]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but my genetic profile is pretty standard. I wasn't blessed with an extra chromosome, so sadly I don't have man titties to play with, nor any major learning disabilities. I had trouble spelling when I was young, but that's it. <3

[What]

Do I hear wedding bells?

[Carmichal]

Do I hear wedding bells?

No take your pills.

[What]

mhmmmm

[Passarelli]

Do I hear wedding bells?

Is that really how you are going to propose to me? I was hoping for something more romantic!

[What]

When it happens you won't have a say in the matter

[Passarelli]

When it happens you won't have a say in the matter

Oh baby, don't threaten me with a good time.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Oh baby, don't threaten me with a good time.

you're pretty annoying. and seemingly worthless. if I"M saying that, you know some shit is seriously wrong. don't troll for the sake of trolling. that's a very easy way to wear out what welcome you've been given.

[Nemesis]

you're pretty annoying. and seemingly worthless. if I"M saying that, you know some shit is seriously wrong. don't troll for the sake of trolling. that's a very easy way to wear out what welcome you've been given.

I agree. Who would do shit like that?