Over Leveled Handicap

[ZERO]

As you all know due to the way war3 works there is no "over leveling" of the races. Well in reality there is in a way b/c you do still get all the xp. However the system does not count or apply the levels beyond what the max level of said race is. What is good about this system is it allows hard limits on what needs to be leveled in order for other races to be unlocked. This is good if you want to have something like eva in the future and restrict it only for people who have maxed every race before it. However, it clearly is not good for xp rewards as they no longer work like they did in the past.

My goal is to fix this with an addon plugin that will be able to grant additional xp to players based on the "over leveled difference"

Currently you get 4xp for every level higher an enemy is than you. However it does not take into account the "over levels" as they are not counted. The goal is to make a plugin which will calculate the number of additional levels not counted by the current bonus and add those in.

So for example currently a player kills someone who has maxed a race and is 10 levels above them. They would get 40xp bonus. However, with this system the new plugin would then look to see how many additional levels the killed player would have if there was over leveling and then rewards additional xp for that. So lets say the player had an additional 10 levels of over leveling, then the plugin would reward an additional 40xp for a total bonus of 80xp to reflect the 20 level difference.

Such a system would allow for xp rewards to work EXACTLY as they did in the original wcs server.

Here are some features I propose:

Grant 4xp for every additional currently not counted levels as calculated by the users xp for that race
Cap on max reward xp (I assume we want something like this to prevent crazy amounts in the long run)
Create command "showlevel" which will return a players true "over leveled" level for their current race.


So what do you all think?

[maynard]

I always liked the concept of over leveling.. but I hate the extra xp bonus people get for killing you... it just levels people 2 damn fast... I remember back in the day killing me would give people like 500 xp... it's just 2 damn much. if we could cap the bonus xp so it's not giving an unreal amount of xp I think it would be all good.

it also seems like it would be an unfair leveling advantage 2 those who have had 2 re-get all their levels since the original wcs data went 2 shit, as new people and people who don't play as often will rack in xp so much quicker.

love over leveling... hate the massive xp bonuses.

[Penis シ]

I don't have a max anything, so I'm not fit to weigh in on this. I'm just here to express my extreme curiosity as to what eva is.

[Spasm]

I always liked the concept of over leveling.. but I hate the extra xp bonus people get for killing you... it just levels people 2 damn fast... I remember back in the day killing me would give people like 500 xp... it's just 2 damn much. if we could cap the bonus xp so it's not giving an unreal amount of xp I think it would be all good.

it also seems like it would be an unfair leveling advantage 2 those who have had 2 re-get all their levels since the original wcs data went 2 shit, as new people and people who don't play as often will rack in xp so much quicker.

love over leveling... hate the massive xp bonuses.

agree 100%

[ZERO]

I always thought of the real value of over leveling was to grant addational xp as a way to discourage the use of over leveled races or have a trade off for their usage. In the old server we found people would whore races less as a result of that system.

However, I do agree that in some cases the amount of xp rewarded would be crazy which is why I suggest a cap at a difference of 100 over levels or 400xp. I do not see how it is going to make much of a difference when your beyond 100 over levels above another player and so the xp rewarded should stop making a difference at that point.

Such a system would also result in a level 200 over leveled eva (100 normal levels and 100 over levels) granting 800xp to a new race. The reward for killing such a high level eva (when it is eventually released again in the future) makes logical sense.

Also please note that this system will take into account if your race is overleveled.

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

Actually on that note if one over leveled race killed another over leveled race I could just give no bonus at all regardless of the level difference.

[Spasm]

I always thought of the real value of over leveling was to grant addational xp as a way to discourage the use of over leveled races or have a trade off for their usage. In the old server we found people would whore races less as a result of that system.

However, I do agree that in some cases the amount of xp rewarded would be crazy which is why I suggest a cap at a difference of 100 over levels or 400xp. I do not see how it is going to make much of a difference when your beyond 100 over levels above another player and so the xp rewarded should stop making a difference at that point.

Such a system would also result in a level 200 over leveled eva (100 normal levels and 100 over levels) granting 800xp to a new race. The reward for killing such a high level eva (when it is eventually released again in the future) makes logical sense.

Also please note that this system will take into account if your race is overleveled.

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

Actually on that note if one over leveled race killed another over leveled race I could just give no bonus at all regardless of the level difference.

ZERO when you release eva I would suggest a carrot on the stick like approach with it, make it so only a handful of players can get it. This will help with the race whoring big time. i.e.
Human is level 200 and Undead is level 40, if your racing to get to eva, the xp difference between one level on human and undead is massive, so massive they will end up playing undead over human.
By carrot on the stick I mean that eva should be updated every so often with a higher level cap.

[maynard]

Ive never liked the concept of punishing people for playing the races they like.

or the concept of giving people extra xp just cause they killed that person who has an over leveled race.

if someone works for a lvl 150 vegalion... they shouldn't feel discouraged 2 play it cause they are giving multiple tomes away each time they die.


I mean that eva should be updated every so often with a higher level cap.

it would be. it's what we did in the past. we raised the cap on it like 3 times lol.

[ZERO]

Due to limitations on the war3 engine eva when released will always reuire every race to be maxed. It is not possible for it to unlock at any level higher than that. Note that as always over leveling does not impact race unlocks.

[Spasm]

On the old server I thought it was way over level cap

[Assassin]

Ive never liked the concept of punishing people for playing the races they like.

or the concept of giving people extra xp just cause they killed that person who has an over leveled race.

if someone works for a lvl 150 vegalion... they shouldn't feel discouraged 2 play it cause they are giving multiple tomes away each time they die.



it would be. it's what we did in the past. we raised the cap on it like 3 times lol.
Do you knwo anyone who worries about this? because I don't.

[ZERO]

I wanted to point out that under the new system I would use this plugin to preform all xp bonus rewards so that you no longer get xp just for the base levels being different.

Currently a max human always gets 72xp for killing a max vag for example. This bonus would now depend on the true over leveled value and thus you would only get a bonus if your human was lower level than the vag you killed.

This should help to dramatically balance out the current xp reward system to be inline with how it worked on the original server but with a cap limiting the reward to 800xp on a kill max to prevent total craziness.

[maynard]

Do you knwo anyone who worries about this? because I don't.

yeah... half the people who played in the original days. it was a real piss off, and annoyed many people.

anything else?

[Assassin]

Well I can honestly say that now a days I haven't seen anyone go OH GOD I JUST GAVE HIM 250 XP im switching races...just saying.

[ZERO]

On the old server I thought it was way over level cap
It was level 700 or an avg of 21.21 levels per race.

As most of our current races have over 21 levels the new requirement for eva will actually be MUCH higher than it ever was in the past. But that is a long time from now...

[maynard]

Well I can honestly say that now a days I haven't seen anyone go OH GOD I JUST GAVE HIM 250 XP im switching races...just saying.

that's swell... we're not talking about 250 xp, we're talking about 500-800 xp.

[Spasm]

It was level 700 or an avg of 21.21 levels per race.

As most of our current races have over 21 levels the new requirement for eva will actually be MUCH higher than it ever was in the past. But that is a long time from now...

876 is the current max and I am not certain how many people are maxed but If I was to guess around 40. If it's not possible it's not possible, but if you made eva a better carrot on a stick you would bring back a lot of people that left out of boredom and actually bring more of a meaning to leveling.

[Assassin]

Fair enough. I guess I just don't think us new players really care. We play what we want when we can.

[maynard]

for the love of God zero, don't cap it at 800... that's just a beyond stupid amount of XP 2 obtain for killing somoene whose over leveled....

the 3500 dollar tome gives 100 xp.... someone who has a uber maxed race which people will already most likely have, and eventually more will, will be giving away $28000 in xp per death.... that's just shyte....

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------


Fair enough. I guess I just don't think us new players really care. We play what we want when we can.

you "new" players don't have uber maxed races... nor were there back in the day... so in short, have no clue as 2 what you're going on about.

[Assassin]

for the love of God zero, don't cap it at 800... that's just a beyond stupid amount of XP 2 obtain for killing somoene whose over leveled....

the 3500 dollar tome gives 100 xp.... someone who has a uber maxed race which people will already most likely have, and eventually more will, will be giving away $28000 in xp per death.... that's just shyte....

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------



you "new" players don't have uber maxed races... nor were there back in the day... so in short, have no clue as 2 what you're going on about.

Right but that's what I'm getting at. We are the ones playing now...and don't care. Unless like wolfen and maybe tom and spasm (which is the ones I'm assuming have been here since the old one) care. The rest of us don't. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you just giving you what I see.

[maynard]

Right but that's what I'm getting at. We are the ones playing now...and don't care. Unless like wolfen and maybe tom and spasm (which is the ones I'm assuming have been here since the old one) care. The rest of us don't. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you just giving you what I see.

I know you're not trying 2 pick a fight, nor am I mad. I'm just very opinionated.

now, back 2 making you on edge....

ofcourse you don't care... you want the xp bonus lol. I'm trying 2 defend the people who have the uber maxed races... like spasm... where if you read up, you will see he has agreed with me. the people who will benefit from this wanting it 2 happen does not surprise me lol.

and I'm one of the people who will benefit from it, and I'm flat out against it. I shouldn't get a hand out cause spasm is on one of his fav races, and he shouldn't feel discouraged 2 play one of his fav races cause he's giving out 28 grand worth of xp when he dies.

[Assassin]

I am maxed too...?

[maynard]

this isn't about maxed races... it's about OVER LEVELED.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

As you all know due to the way war3 works there is no "over leveling" of the races. Well in reality there is in a way b/c you do still get all the xp. However the system does not count or apply the levels beyond what the max level of said race is. What is good about this system is it allows hard limits on what needs to be leveled in order for other races to be unlocked. This is good if you want to have something like eva in the future and restrict it only for people who have maxed every race before it. However, it clearly is not good for xp rewards as they no longer work like they did in the past.

My goal is to fix this with an addon plugin that will be able to grant additional xp to players based on the "over leveled difference"

Currently you get 4xp for every level higher an enemy is than you. However it does not take into account the "over levels" as they are not counted. The goal is to make a plugin which will calculate the number of additional levels not counted by the current bonus and add those in.

So for example currently a player kills someone who has maxed a race and is 10 levels above them. They would get 40xp bonus. However, with this system the new plugin would then look to see how many additional levels the killed player would have if there was over leveling and then rewards additional xp for that. So lets say the player had an additional 10 levels of over leveling, then the plugin would reward an additional 40xp for a total bonus of 80xp to reflect the 20 level difference.

Such a system would allow for xp rewards to work EXACTLY as they did in the original wcs server.

Here are some features I propose:

Grant 4xp for every additional currently not counted levels as calculated by the users xp for that race
Cap on max reward xp (I assume we want something like this to prevent crazy amounts in the long run)
Create command "showlevel" which will return a players true "over leveled" level for their current race.

So what do you all think?

yes with everything!!!

[Assassin]

Oh I get it now. It isn't by your max level amount (ie 976) it's how much each race individually is over the cap. Gotcha.

[brett friggin favre]

of course i support this idea, but yeah with a cap on how much you can get from a single kill. 250-300 would be alright, considering how hard it is to kill some people, and i don't see a problem with that. it would encourage both less race-whoring and also newer players might not mind playing with older players who have maxed races because they can get their xp up quicker that way. should increase population, keep brand new players...excellent. it does kinda belittle the accomplishments we've achieved in maxing our races the hard way, but at the same time...consider who gets kills on those with maxed races usually. other people with maxed races. it won't have too big an effect on leveling speed but enough to keep new people coming in.

[Erdenay]

876 is the current max and I am not certain how many people are maxed but If I was to guess around 40. If it's not possible it's not possible, but if you made eva a better carrot on a stick you would bring back a lot of people that left out of boredom and actually bring more of a meaning to leveling.

It's 976.


Right but that's what I'm getting at. We are the ones playing now...and don't care. Unless like wolfen and maybe tom and spasm (which is the ones I'm assuming have been here since the old one) care. The rest of us don't. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you just giving you what I see.

I'm newer than you actually - not even a year old at IBIS. Besides, posting about me/wolf/spasm every time doesn't really change anything either: both me and wolf have no real influence and are not that great of players...

[Assassin]

It's 976.



I'm newer than you actually - not even a year old at IBIS. Besides, posting about me/wolf/spasm every time doesn't really change anything either: both me and wolf have no real influence and are not that great of players...

Dude that's bs and you know it. When it comes to the people who are always team deciders you, spasm, masskid, and wolfen and gangnam too now....are at the top of that list.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Right but that's what I'm getting at. We are the ones playing now...and don't care. Unless like wolfen and maybe tom and spasm (which is the ones I'm assuming have been here since the old one) care. The rest of us don't. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you just giving you what I see.

i was on the old server too...longer than wolfen and spasm, actually...

[Squirrel]

i was on the old server too...longer than wolfen and spasm, actually...
I've been here just about as long as you, I'm pretty sure. xD

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I've been here just about as long as you, I'm pretty sure. xD

i don't think so, i started playing the WCS server summer of '09

[Assassin]

Yeah but you to rarely play anymore. I was talking about current players.

[CYBER]

Actually on that note if one over leveled race killed another over leveled race I could just give no bonus at all regardless of the level difference.


i dont like this to be honest...

The way I understand this is that, if I am, let's say, a level 41 rapscallion , and i kill a level 200 human... I get NO BONUS xp at all just because I happen to be 1 level over-leveled?...

I understand if u're trying to look at the long run, and not having overleveled people feeding off eachother... but to completely remove the xp boost altogether?...


I understand that this system is gd for newcomers, but i agree with maynard and spasm above. I am a maxxed player, but im not just maxxed, im a vagabond whore (for example) and i have over 600 000 xp on it... I think im being "punished" if im giving away a fuckton of xp for people who happen to be LEVELING. I honestly think they didnt earn that compared to the hard work i had to put in a race that i LOVE as an early bird leveler, against people same/lower level than me.

Thats the key word , btw, "love"... im not overplaying a race bcos its strong... i play it bcos it's my race... and i love it... and i feel i would be punished if LOWER people can leech xp off me, but I CANT leech exp out of a fucking lv 200 human or eva... just because I happen to be "overleveled" on this race.

[Wolfenstinger]

I don't see anything bad about giving people a bit more bonus XP for killing somebody who over-leveled immensely... A Cap to that though, yeah. The reason being though - you're playing your favorite race...and you know for a fact - you are worth a LOT of bonus XP. Some new guy joins - are you really gonna let a new guy kill you like that? Somebody playing a level 0 race because they are leveling - will you really let them get you that easy?

It might actually add some incentive back to playing WCS because as of right now, the only real incentive is to the KDR whores mostly. They know who they are, and yes, I think you all can be really dirty little whores when you play.

[maynard]

Getting 28 grand in XP Tomes for one kill is bad. There is no situation where its good. A cap of like 200XP is far more logical

[Spasm]

Getting 28 grand in XP Tomes for one kill is bad. There is no situation where its good. A cap of like 200XP is far more logical
Agreed and also, the faster people level, the faster some of them will end up leaving the server. Think carrot on a stick people, it's how MMOs work and most online RPGs.
BTW wolf, we are all dirty whores, except you, your a dirty slut.
If eva can't be over level limit then the only good thing about over leveling is rank whoring lol.

[Sin]

I don't care either way. I'll always forever play Jack unless its bhop speed gets destroyed like spidey's did. I guess I'll be giving 1000xp to whoever kills me.

POWER LEVELING TIME GUISE!

You guys are talking about it like it's a fuckin' MMO. It's Counter-Forces: Sources with cheats, thas it.

[maynard]

You guys are talking about it like it's a fuckin' MMO. It's Counter-Forces: Sources with cheats, thas it.

No. it's CSS with a WCS mod giving it a RPG like play style... hence the leveling, skills, abilities etc.

[ZERO]

i dont like this to be honest...

The way I understand this is that, if I am, let's say, a level 41 rapscallion , and i kill a level 200 human... I get NO BONUS xp at all just because I happen to be 1 level over-leveled?...

I understand if u're trying to look at the long run, and not having overleveled people feeding off eachother... but to completely remove the xp boost altogether?...


I understand that this system is gd for newcomers, but i agree with maynard and spasm above. I am a maxxed player, but im not just maxxed, im a vagabond whore (for example) and i have over 600 000 xp on it... I think im being "punished" if im giving away a fuckton of xp for people who happen to be LEVELING. I honestly think they didnt earn that compared to the hard work i had to put in a race that i LOVE as an early bird leveler, against people same/lower level than me.

Thats the key word , btw, "love"... im not overplaying a race bcos its strong... i play it bcos it's my race... and i love it... and i feel i would be punished if LOWER people can leech xp off me, but I CANT leech exp out of a fucking lv 200 human or eva... just because I happen to be "overleveled" on this race.

I was saying it is possible to do that, not that I am doing that.

---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

The plan will be to make the level cap 100 or 400xp which is exactly what the current cap is.

---------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------

Or I can make it at 50 for 200xp for now and raise it to 400xp at level 100 ect when higher level requirement races are introduced. Eva for example will max at level 100.

[maynard]

100:wtg:

[ZERO]

The leveling formula is roundtofloor(X/100)=level

One option could be to then compute the difference in levels when very high and adjust it to prevent too many free levels rather than a cap. For example the system could look at how many levels a user will gain if given that amount of xp and then preform a hard cap of 1 level up. There would then be no xp cap but a level up cap instead.

For example level 0 player kills level 500 player. The level 0 player only gains the xp needed to reach level 1. Then a level 200 player kills a level 500 player. This player will get the full 1200 xp unless getting 1200xp would result in obtaining more than 1 level at a time as a result of the bonus.

Such a system capped this way would allow for everyone to get more xp for killing those who are leveled above them but also does it in such a way as to prevent a level farming situation.

What do you all think of the level gain cap concept?

[Assassin]

I do like this idea...though it does seem to punish lower level races a little, but I can see why you would want the carrot on the stick idea and would probably keep the people coming back.

[maynard]

I just don't see why people should get bonus xp at all... when a class hits it's lvl cap... it doesn't get any better... so why should the person in question give out so much xp when they aren't any better than they were 400 levels prior.



can't we just make it so people can over level without set ups where people get anywhere from 28 - 48 grand in free tomes for a single kill? why do we need the bonus xp? if we can't cap it at like 200 ish xp max no matter what scenario plays out... I rather we not do it.

it's just a free hand out... I don't see why we need it, everyone who lost all their data had 2 start over without any form of handout. why should it be any diff for new people now.

[SCRIBBLE]

everyone who lost all their data had 2 start over without any form of handout. why should it be any diff for new people now.I can not stress this enough.On top of no handouts, top20 for the first few months post-ob were making shit xp on all the new players so the new players now would have it so much easier than the majority of pre-ob players.

[brett friggin favre]

i don't see it as a handout, you still have to kill an overleveled player to gain anything from it. i see this as the way it should've been all along. it's less of a handout than the gg handicap, and there are less people who have problems with that.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i don't see it as a handout, you still have to kill an overleveled player to gain anything from it. i see this as the way it should've been all along. it's less of a handout than the gg handicap, and there are less people who have problems with that.

you're wrong. there is no other way to say it. it is a huge amount of additional free exp, for doing something not terribly more difficult than killing someone with the same race who just maxed it out.

someone being overleveled does not increase the difficulty of killing them.

[brett friggin favre]

you're wrong. there is no other way to say it. it is a huge amount of additional free exp, for doing something not terribly more difficult than killing someone with the same race who just maxed it out.

someone being overleveled does not increase the difficulty of killing them.

as someone plays with one specific race more and more, he gets better with that race, learns how to best use it and does indeed become harder to kill. and yes, it does make it a bit easier to level but it'll stop all the whining about people whoring maxed races. it'll encourage people to focus on those players who are raping one team and try to take them out for the additional xp, which could also help balance teams in some situations. people could for example buy a lace and help kill a vaga-whoring cyber instead of letting him rape them while they just tome up. it'll encourage people to actually play the game to level up instead of just saving up and buying nothing but tomes. i like that idea.

[ZERO]

I think you guys have it back words, it already gives you bonus xp. I am changing the way it gives it to you so that over leveling is taken into account. The current system is unfair to older players as they never get bonus xp. For example when a max vag kills a human it never gets bonus xp but every time a maxed human kills a max vag they get 72xp. That is how things work right now and it is wrong. The only solution is to implement overlevel xp into the calculation but we do not want it giving out crazy amounts of xp so the solution is to either:


Cap the total amount of xp anyone can get from bonus
Cap the total amount of xp given out based on the amount of levels which would be gained from the bonus
Or you could even do both.

By doing both you could make it so that you can never get a bonus larger than 800xp or a bonus greater than the xp required to hit the next level.

[maynard]

you're wrong. there is no other way to say it. it is a huge amount of additional free exp, for doing something not terribly more difficult than killing someone with the same race who just maxed it out.

someone being overleveled does not increase the difficulty of killing them.

^this. 2 try and claim someone will be significantly better with a race after they go from lvl 100 - 200 is a joke. and it sure as shit should not reward someone 1200, 800, 500, 400 or any other crazy ass amount of xp cause you managed 2 kill that person. people play the races they like and that's fine. No one should be discouraged 2 play a race they enjoy cause they will give out tens of thousands worth of xp.


@zero

all I know is no one is getting 1200 xp for a kill nor has since the original server took a dive... and it's been nice.

bonus xp should not be able 2 go over 100-250 ish xp no matter what. anything past that is just a joke no matter what the scenario is, and it seems the masses agree. please hardcore limit it down 2 like 100-200 ish xp or don't do it at all and just enable over leveling so people can have bragging rights... as people enjoyed that back in the day.

[brett friggin favre]

well i agree that 1000+ xp from a kill is irrational, which is why i proposed a cap of ~250-300 xp for these kills. as it is right now, you can still get like 200 xp from killing someone, say a jack or vaga as you're low level. so having that same sort of xp from killing an over-leveled human isn't too crazy.

[maynard]

exactly... my point being... leave the xp alone!

just unlock over leveling.

[Assassin]

exactly... my point being... leave the xp alone!

just unlock over leveling.

While we're at it...level bank?

[brett friggin favre]

While we're at it...level bank?

fuck no.

[maynard]

no level bank, no cash bank... evar

[Assassin]

no level bank, no cash bank... evar
Meh just figured I'd bring it up.

~edit What about the gamble mod? That's not so terrible.

[brett friggin favre]

Meh just figured I'd bring it up.

~edit What about the gamble mod? That's not so terrible.

no. no no.

[CYBER]

Meh just figured I'd bring it up.

~edit What about the gamble mod? That's not so terrible.

im going to regret asking... but what gamble mod?


...
and i hope that both brett and maynard/aco realize that you 3 are saying the exact same shit and agreeing on the same thing -.- : "capping the xp given to 250ish max.".

This will satisfy both parties, the levelers, and the veterans.

Veterans can still consider maxxing their races an achievement.
Newcomers can get up to 250xp per kill on overleveled races. Which is MASSIVE already, specially considering that us "veterans" had to collect 15xp at a fucking time to reach to our current position... (being 1 of the first ppl to come back to wcs after the O.U made it so that xp shared between us was minimal, since we were all almost the same levels....)

Hence why I cringe at the fact that my 600k xp vagabond (collected 15-60xp at a time) can ALREADY give 400 xp to a guy who just joined the server, if they got a random kill on me.

[SCRIBBLE]

Gamble aka bet ...Bet t 8000 .. .Bet ct 8000 Etc......edit :fucking phone won't input returns...elipses are returns

[acolyte_to_jippity]

im going to regret asking... but what gamble mod?


...
and i hope that both brett and maynard/aco realize that you 3 are saying the exact same shit and agreeing on the same thing -.- : "capping the xp given to 250ish max.".

This will satisfy both parties, the levelers, and the veterans.

Veterans can still consider maxxing their races an achievement.
Newcomers can get up to 250xp per kill on overleveled races. Which is MASSIVE already, specially considering that us "veterans" had to collect 15xp at a fucking time to reach to our current position... (being 1 of the first ppl to come back to wcs after the O.U made it so that xp shared between us was minimal, since we were all almost the same levels....)

Hence why I cringe at the fact that my 600k xp vagabond (collected 15-60xp at a time) can ALREADY give 400 xp to a guy who just joined the server, if they got a random kill on me.

actually, i'm pretty sure me and maymay are saying no bonus xp from overleveled people...

[brett friggin favre]

actually, i'm pretty sure me and maymay are saying no bonus xp from overleveled people...

here's why there should be bonus xp though.

why should a new player get 100+ MORE xp from someone playing a maxed rapscallion than a maxed succy hunter? that's how it is now...maxed humans, undead, blood mages, etc. just to name a few give less xp than maxed vagabond, vagalion, jack, rapscallion...that doesn't make sense. overleveled bonus xp with a cap would make it more even.

[ZERO]

here's why there should be bonus xp though.

why should a new player get 100+ MORE xp from someone playing a maxed rapscallion than a maxed succy hunter? that's how it is now...maxed humans, undead, blood mages, etc. just to name a few give less xp than maxed vagabond, vagalion, jack, rapscallion...that doesn't make sense. overleveled bonus xp with a cap would make it more even.

Finally someone understands....

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Finally someone understands....

if that's what you've been getting at, then i'm not sure how much i like the idea.

[brett friggin favre]

if that's what you've been getting at, then i'm not sure how much i like the idea.

i don't see any harm in having the game function logically. why should a rapscallion, lowest kdr on wcs, give more xp when killed than a succubus hunter, human, nebula, spidey, shadow hunter, etc.? the current system makes no sense.

[maynard]

because zero has been throwing numbers like 1200 and 800 xp around and it scares the shit out of me.... cause that truly makes no sense. It sucked ass on the original server and people hated it, and once again the masses have spoken and don't want 2 see it set up like that again.

rap gives more cause it's 8 levels per ability... it's all about how high of a level the race caps out at... the skill or how good or bad a race is in the public opinion should not matter worth 2 shits. Rap is a great race, 95% of people are just 2 fucking stupid 2 play it correctly

I don't understand how it's apparently illogical 2 get more xp for killing a maxed lvl 40 race over a maxed lvl 20 race.... makes perfect sense 2 me... and if it's really that confusing or problematic for other people... than take our highest lvl cap'd race (eva excluded) or something close 2 it, and make it so all races give out that amount... simple.

[StarsMine]

No its not that people dont know how to play rapscallion, its that the race honestly sucks.
Do you play lol? Its not that people dont know how to play karma, its just that karma sucks. Karma sucks balls.

What people are trying to say is max level does not scale with how good the race is. If it did, succubus hunter should be the weakest race when in fact its one of the more powerful ones.

[maynard]

speak for yourself. Ive never had any issue with rap... and this isn't a debate of which classes are good... my point was, rap has a higher lvl cap.. hence it gives more XP...


no shit max lvl doesn't scale on how good a race is. a race is only as good as the person playing it...

[acolyte_to_jippity]

No its not that people dont know how to play rapscallion, its that the race honestly sucks.
Do you play lol? Its not that people dont know how to play karma, its just that karma sucks. Karma sucks balls.

What people are trying to say is max level does not scale with how good the race is. If it did, succubus hunter should be the weakest race when in fact its one of the more powerful ones.

sorry dude, you seriously screwed over any credibility you had with the karma comment.

karma is fucking amazing.a good karma can easily be one of the best champs in the game.

[brett friggin favre]

if you want to compare wcs to an rpg, then as in any rpg, the amount of xp you get should be somewhat relative to the difficulty of what you did. i know why currently the system is how it is but it still doesn't make a lick of sense...the amount of levels in a race is arbitrary, so to base xp given off an arbitrary number is kinda silly. imagine playing wow, you do a level 17 quest that gives 6000 xp for killing 12 boars, then you do a level 29 quest which has you killing 20 boars and then 2 elites simultaneously, and grants 2500 xp cuz it's based off of some arbitrary number. it doesn't work that way, so why should wcs? it should scale with relative difficulty, not with how many levels it has. the proposed Austen isn't perfect, it's kinda impossible to make it perfect since this is a fps we're basing it all off of and not an rpg, but this is certainly an improvement.

also reading back zero, i don't like the level gain cap thing you proposed, I'm thinking it should be static regardless of level and capped around 250-400 xp. that way new players don't have a crazy advantage in leveling up, but the system would be much better than it currently is.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

if you want to compare wcs to an rpg, then as in any rpg, the amount of xp you get should be somewhat relative to the difficulty of what you did. i know why currently the system is how it is but it still doesn't make a lick of sense...the amount of levels in a race is arbitrary, so to base xp given off an arbitrary number is kinda silly. imagine playing wow, you do a level 17 quest that gives 6000 xp for killing 12 boars, then you do a level 29 quest which has you killing 20 boars and then 2 elites simultaneously, and grants 2500 xp cuz it's based off of some arbitrary number. it doesn't work that way, so why should wcs? it should scale with relative difficulty, not with how many levels it has. the proposed Austen isn't perfect, it's kinda impossible to make it perfect since this is a fps we're basing it all off of and not an rpg, but this is certainly an improvement.

also reading back zero, i don't like the level gain cap thing you proposed, I'm thinking it should be static regardless of level and capped around 250-400 xp. that way new players don't have a crazy advantage in leveling up, but the system would be much better than it currently is.

the difference in awarded xp comes from the relative difficulty in fully leveling up the given race. a sucubus hunter does not take as much work to fully level, compared to a rapscalion or vagabond. thus, those two give more bonus xp.

[brett friggin favre]

the difference in awarded xp comes from the relative difficulty in fully leveling up the given race. a sucubus hunter does not take as much work to fully level, compared to a rapscalion or vagabond. thus, those two give more bonus xp.

i think you're confusing difficulty with time. its not hard to level any race...except maybe rapscallion...the higher level requirement just indicates how long it takes to level up, so you're saying it should be based on how long you've played the race essentially. so why not reward the killer more if they've played succy hunter as long or longer than they've played vagabond?

[maynard]

No its not that people dont know how to play rapscallion

actually it is.

Whenever I've used it... I seem 2 do just fine... am I top of the leader board? hell no, it's not what the race is designed for. it's a fun ambush class... nothing more... and if played properly, it will do the job just fine.

once again... this isn't about what class is best or is shitty... it's about not allowing some stupid new code that brings back getting 1200, 800, or even 500 xp for a single kill over some technicality.

For the love of God leave the XP alone! just bring back over leveling and cap it, or leave it at it's current cap.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i think you're confusing difficulty with time. its not hard to level any race...except maybe rapscallion...the higher level requirement just indicates how long it takes to level up, so you're saying it should be based on how long you've played the race essentially. so why not reward the killer more if they've played succy hunter as long or longer than they've played vagabond?

i didn't reference relative difficulty, i said work.

it takes more work to level vagabond, than it does to level sucubus.

[brett friggin favre]

i didn't reference relative difficulty, i said work.

it takes more work to level vagabond, than it does to level sucubus.

but does it not take more work to get 500000 bonus xp after fully leveling a succy hunter than it does to fully level a human for instance?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

but does it not take more work to get 500000 bonus xp after fully leveling a succy hunter than it does to fully level a human for instance?

the question then becomes, at that point, how much more powerful is the hyper-overleveled sucubus hunter than one that is exactly at max?

[brett friggin favre]

the question then becomes, at that point, how much more powerful is the hyper-overleveled sucubus hunter than one that is exactly at max?

more powerful than a maxed rapscallion...you're switching your arguments back and forth between difficulty of the kill and "work" taken to level, pick one lol

[acolyte_to_jippity]

more powerful than a maxed rapscallion...you're switching your arguments back and forth between difficulty of the kill and "work" taken to level, pick one lol

2 separate issues, jesus christ.

look, the fact is, there is no reason to give people extra xp for overleveling their races. they don't become any more powerful, os the challenge presented remains the same (don't bring individual player skill into this, unless you'd like to suggest we award a bonus for killing spasm). at the same time, certain races require more work to level up. thus, those end up being worth more for killing because they represent a greater investment before full power has been achieved.

[maynard]

2 separate issues, jesus christ.

Fuck! finally.

[brett friggin favre]

wait, how did we get to talk about 2 separate issues in a thread which discusses 1 issue?

why should the fact that some races take more work to level up dictate how much xp they give, while the amount of work it takes to overlevel any race to a certain point should have no effect on it? more work is more work...

[What]

It makes sens to adjust the thing, since the way the system works is if your level 50 you give more xp when you get killed than if your level 20. An issue is that a max shadow hunter is level 20, and never gives much xp. Meanwhile, someone who is leveling say Athena and is level 32 is actually giving the maxed hunter more xp than he gives the athena. Since it seems the xp given upon death is based on the xp a race has, ie a level 50 race will have more xp than a level 20, it makes sense to install some type of handicap. Aleko has like 500k extra xp on shadow hunter, if he gets killed by a level 23 undead, shouldn't he give more xp than 30, while if Aleko kills him he gets arond 45? It helps new people out, and doesn't change gameplay in any significant way.

[ZERO]

The issue is that the only reason it works the way it does right now is b/c I had not found a way to fix it and so we setteled for a broken system. The level caps are not set based off how good a race should be but how hard it should be to level b/c they are copied from the original server. I am not talking about giving out more xp than we do now which is why I talked about having a cap and even different ways to implement caps.

What I should have done was just made it and not given any numbers and then when you see how it works it will make sense. Instead when I was talking about really high xp payouts in that I wanted to prevent those everyone stoped reading what this is actually aupposed to do.

[Assassin]

wait, how did we get to talk about 2 separate issues in a thread which discusses 1 issue?

why should the fact that some races take more work to level up dictate how much xp they give, while the amount of work it takes to overlevel any race to a certain point should have no effect on it? more work is more work...

yeah I'm kinda confused on this point as well. The time put in should be the time put in period, and the longer you play a race the better you are at it...period. Unless your an idiot and don't learn from your mistakes.

[maynard]

yes but the issue is you said

"Such a system would allow for xp rewards to work EXACTLY as they did in the original wcs server. "

and no one wants that system back, well the majority doesn't. it sucked ass and discouraged people from playing the races they enjoy by giving out stupid amounts of XP each and every time a over leveled race died.

[Locust]

I got an idea for you zero.

say you want to change it so the amount of levels a race has doesn't affect the xp that's given for killing it you can do something along the lines of a percentage for both the players.

so kinda like

xp = baseXPGain * (%LvledKilled/%LvledKiller)
if xp < baseXPGain:
xp = baseXPGain.
EDIT:
then if you want to add a limit (with the way that works up there it would be tough to get above 2 or 3 times the base xp) just add
elif xp > xpLimit:
xp = xpLimit

that way people who are leveling a race and kill someone who's maxed they get xp based on how far along they are with that race. and those who are maxed still get the same basic xp amount they would usually get

[brett friggin favre]

i don't give a rat's ass how much exp i give out...but even for those who do, as it is now it's discouraging players from playing races that require more levels to max, or it should be...but i see no shortage of people playing vagabond/lion/jack.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

yeah I'm kinda confused on this point as well. The time put in should be the time put in period, and the longer you play a race the better you are at it...period. Unless your an idiot and don't learn from your mistakes.

once again, why should we be factoring in player skill?

should we be giving out more xp for killing spasm?

[Wolfenstinger]

once again, why should we be factoring in player skill?

should we be giving out more xp for killing spasm?

I second this. Spasm gets 5XP a kill while we all get at least 100XP solid off him!

[Erdenay]

I second this. Spasm gets 5XP a kill while we all get at least 100XP solid off him!

Thirded.

[brett friggin favre]

im not saying it should be based off player skill but even if it was it makes more sense than basing it off the number of levels per skill

[ZERO]

Clearly the goal is to make the gamefeel balanced by giving spasm -1xp per kill and everyone who kills him >9000xp

[Assassin]

Clearly the goal is to make the gamefeel balanced by giving spasm -1xp per kill and everyone who kills him >9000xp
clearly the thing I'm thinking is that if you are trying to give a numerical bonus to xp for the hardness of killing someone who has played a race so long as to have all that extra xp then clearly that person will be increasing there skill as they level and moreso after they have it maxed. Which is what I was stating above.

[Spasm]

Clearly the goal is to make the gamefeel balanced by giving spasm -1xp per kill and everyone who kills him >9000xp

lawl.
Here is the easiest solution:
Leave the system just like it is but just cap it at what it gives out now. So for example, Level 80 vagabond gives out level 50 cuz thats the true level cap. Level 70 Human gives out level 32 experience because that is the max level cap. That way the system for giving out xp is basically the same but we still get over leveling.

The only reason I was saying carrot on the stick is because I know of several players that have quit the WCS out of straight boredom. If you make a race like eva hard to get and only a handful of players can get, it will bring back people to the wcs server. It will help with the race whoring issue we have on the server as well. It's way quicker to level a level 30 race then a level 120 race. I think we all would enjoy less race whoring and the server being populated more.

As of right now the only benefit I see to bringing back over leveling is the fact that the war3rank will be affected by total levels. That's it. That may help some, but I suspect it won't help that much.

[maynard]

lawl.
Here is the easiest solution:
Leave the system just like it is but just cap it at what it gives out now.

^This

[brett friggin favre]

i'm sorry, i will just never understand the logic of that argument.

[Assassin]

i'm sorry, i will just never understand the logic of that argument.
Don't worry your not alone.

[ZERO]

The over leveling would not impact any ranks, it is a totally separate system on its own.

[brett friggin favre]

as if ranks even mattered

[Wolfenstinger]

Question - how would it affect the ones who already have accumulated lots of XP on their races if this system gets implemented, it just automatically calculates the levels for us to the proper over-level level?

[Sin]

Frankly, the ideal system would just be to give everyone maxed out races and it'll just become like back in 'Nam when the gooks were just everywhere and you couldn't see them and BAM headshot and napalm strikes on Super Mario's village cuz the Princess was a dumb cunt who couldn't keep her legs shut for that Bowser dick.

[maynard]

Frankly, the ideal system would just be to give everyone maxed out races and it'll just become like back in 'Nam when the gooks were just everywhere and you couldn't see them and BAM headshot and napalm strikes on Super Mario's village cuz the Princess was a dumb cunt who couldn't keep her legs shut for that Bowser dick.

.... I lol'd

[Assassin]

Frankly, the ideal system would just be to give everyone maxed out races and it'll just become like back in 'Nam when the gooks were just everywhere and you couldn't see them and BAM headshot and napalm strikes on Super Mario's village cuz the Princess was a dumb cunt who couldn't keep her legs shut for that Bowser dick.

Loled too.

[Suprise Butsexz]

Maybe a compromise allowing extra levels+base levels to cap out at 50 total so a xonvert whore doesn't get more xp then a jack whore with kills on each other. So when all races are capped at base levels+over levels=50 all races stop giving more xp after that level and people can keep leveling their trophy class to whatever you want without making you a one kill gives 10 levels character. This would also cause new people to not get ridiculous amounts of xp for killing anyone anymore than is possible at the moment as a lvl 0 versus a maxed jack or vaga.

Still don't believe someone should get more xp for killing a jack since it takes more levels then a xonvert if the xonvert has as much xp as the jack, because levels don't equal power of the race. (this isnt arguing what races are the best so just shut up about humans and vagas already) But, I dont believe that time invested should be discounted if it was before or after hiting cap. A plateau should be in place to stop the craziness so i was just guessing that should be at the max level of the race with the most levels. (without considering eva because its in a league of its own)

With zeros system with no cap playing against my flame pred(640k over cap) which is pretty easy to kill by anyone with any aiming skill shouldn't level some new guy with a lucky shot to level 6 off the get go. With the only one level can be gained per kill it will still get out of hand when someone is over leveled enough cause they enjoy playing it and you can max a vaga in 50 kills against them.

This would also be effectively what maynard and the bunch are shooting for with capping out the gain at the current max for killing the highest level caps. It would increase the gains of newer people though due to more people would be counted as lvl 50s for the purpose of xp gain, but i don't think enough to get out of hand.