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View Full Version : Ping masking and one of the easiest ways to spot it.



StarsMine
01-27-2013, 10:10 PM
For some reason, people dont know this about CSS(or any source game that I know of for that matter), but when you hit tab and look at latency, if someone is <5 they are ping masking. It does not matter where you are, even if you are playing ON the server, your latency can NOT be below 5.

So next time you see someone do such a thing, Ask them to fix there rates, because it does effect game play and it is against the rules. If they dont listen kick them, if they come back without fixing there rates ban.

Proper rates
Rate 20000 or 30000 (20000 is for people running really slow internet)
cl_cmdrate 67
cl_updaterate 67

There is also another way to spot ping masking. When you type ping in console and what comes up is significantly greater then 40 between what is shown in tab and what is shown in console, something is up. This is harder to tell since ping can bounce around rather quickly.
If the tab latency shows 5, ping will show 45 or less. So my assumption is that "latency" it ping -40.

Edit:
Valve be fucking with net codes, Use this as a way to spot potential ping masking, and not an end all be all tool. However dont give me shit in the server when I bring it up either, <5 still should not happen save for a glitch.

Assassin
01-27-2013, 11:56 PM
Vote for sticky.

BladeTwinSwords
01-27-2013, 11:58 PM
Nice little tidbit StarsMine

thecat
01-28-2013, 10:16 AM
Thanks Starmine, I will look out for it.

emouchet
01-29-2013, 06:04 PM
thanks man !

CYBER
01-29-2013, 11:26 PM
Nice little tidbit StarsMine

who the fuck are you?
Blades' are long extinct on ibis, motherfucker.

-=Toy=-=Québec=-FR
01-30-2013, 05:09 AM
Proper rates
Rate 20000 or 30000 (20000 is for people running really slow internet)
cl_cmdrate 67
cl_updaterate 67

Mine :

rate 30000
cl_cmdrate 101
cl_updaterate 101

Ping -29 to 54 max... I guess it must depend on internet connection?

StarsMine
01-30-2013, 10:18 AM
101 was for when people used 100 tick servers. everyone runs 66 tik servers (we are 66 tik now) now so you dont get any benifite from going with 101 packets a second

StarsMine
03-29-2013, 12:18 AM
Going to bump this as I ran into again today.
Though a valve update seems to have fucked this tell up.

Bruce Dern
04-13-2013, 06:47 PM
bruce dern here, i am a regular on both the gungame and zombie mod servers. i understand the server is located in washington dc, and i happen to live less than 5 miles from washington dc. therefore i always have low latency. i usually get anywhere from 2-15 on any given day or time. i was accused of ping masking by starsmine several weeks ago, and was kicked. i explained to him where i live and that i would not know the first thing about how to ping mask. i was told to change my rates to server specifications (which were already pretty close) cmdrate 67(i had 66), updaterate 67 (i had 66) and rate 30000 (which i had). several other players told him that my latency was always low and fluctuated and that even if i did ping mask i didnt lag, so it didn't matter. eventually he gave up and we continued playing. today i was accused of the same thing by 5 lb gummybear. i again explained to him the exact same things as i had in the previous incident. he kicked me and told me to fix my rates, which i did. (because for some reason they set themselves back to 66 instead of 67) and came back. he was unsatisfied. i was banned for not listening to an admin. basically i am here today to say YOU CAN have a latency below 5 and not be ping masking. you said it yourself latency = ping -40. this being the ping that you find in console by typing "ping" which from my understanding cannot be manipulated. i usually have a ping of around 35-40, which from your explanation would give me a latency of -5 to 0, which i am above. i do not know how to ping mask, and seeing as how i live right next to the server, i have no reason to. please inform your admins that you can have a latency below 5, and that i should not be kicked and banned for no reason. for reference, here is my ip address: 108.28.102.135. if you search that you will find that i am located in kensington, maryland, which is about 5 miles from washington dc. i understand the ban was only an hour, so i am not asking to be unbanned, but please do not ban me in the future for something i cannot control

NLA
04-13-2013, 07:06 PM
Kicking people from the server who legitimately have low ping is at best ignorant and at worse borderline retarded. Here is the sequence of steps admins should take when dealing with this "issue":


Press Tab during gameplay and observe player pings.
If a player with a <10ms ping is spotted, observe the player for lag, and listen for other player complaints about this individual lagging.
If lag is present, ask the player to fix their rates; kick them if they do not comply, ban them for one hour if they do not comply and continue to rejoin the server after being kicked. If lag is not present, leave the player alone.


It seems like some of our admins don't mind skipping step 2, blindly following the rules instead of interpreting them and applying common sense.

Bruce Dern
04-13-2013, 07:38 PM
http://www.speedtest.net/result/2644160967.png (http://www.speedtest.net) also for reference

StarsMine
04-13-2013, 10:17 PM
I dont recall banning you. And the time you had <5 I apologize, it seems the net code was changed as valve often does. And what I recall when you were playing it would go below and get stuck even if your ping went above 45. So I dont know what is going on there with you exactly, but something is wonky there. But as I said in the post above yours valve seems to fucked it up. I also recall that after I kicked you, it did not go below 5 until the next map.

Even if you have 20ms ping to the servers, the tab should show 5. and it does for everyone. even if you play on the server the tab ping is shown as 5.
But since you are not causing any magic bullet shit, Im going to put you up as some sort of glitch.

::Paper::
04-13-2013, 10:37 PM
I had the same problem before I was an admin I was accused of ping masking all the time I live in richmond,va and D.C is usually 5-20ms for me all the time watching for lag is all you can do and if you are kicked or ban I would just tell them where u leave and to be aware of the distance and they should look more closely before doing it again but kicking because of low ping is not a way to detect if you are ping masking -_-

ZERO
04-13-2013, 10:43 PM
Just wanted to point out that from my test ping below 5 should still not be possible or is it...

Here you can see me playing on the same pc as the server and then playing while being the server. In the case when connecting to myself my ping is 10 and latency is 5. When playing while being the server itself my ping is 0 and latency 1. So it would appear that valve had removed or changed the hard limits likely dependent on leerp setting more than anything as the server forces min and max values for rate, cl_updaterate and cmd_updaterate.

7275

7274

CYBER
04-13-2013, 11:11 PM
soooooooooo... yeay or nay or the minimum 5 ping threshold for non-ping maskers?

also...

5LB Gummybear ibis.a: when they see this they can change that rule. you were banned for 1 hour for not listening
Bruce Dern: i'm gonna go get admin while i'm there so i can ban people for no reason
Bruce Dern: 11 dollars a month is it?
Bruce Dern: yup, gonna do that
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: not a smart idea
Bruce Dern: you seem to think it is
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: like i said i banned you for not listening the demo shows that
Bruce Dern: 108.28.102.135 that is my ip
Bruce Dern: search where its from
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: go post your thread in ping masking section to get this resolved
Bruce Dern: how long am i banned for?
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: 1 hour
Bruce Dern: all servers?
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: yes
Bruce Dern: wow
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/10500-Ping-masking-and-one-of-the-easiest-ways-to-spot-it.
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: post there
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: then if you feel i banned you for no reason go to the admin abuse section
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/7-Admin-Abuse
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: there
5LB Gummybear ibis.a: and create a post
Bruce Dern: well im gonna get this resolved another way...talk to spasm and steamer and get ur admin revoked
Bruce Dern: and relliks
Gummybears is doing his job Bruce. I don't see how you could get his admin revoked for NOT abusing, and for doing his job. lol...

And i really don't like the way you threaten of buying admin and using it poorly. By all means though, go for it. More money for the servers, and it would be my very privilege to perma ban you if you went all the way to admin abuse this way.

Take a chill pill and wait-out the results of this thread, because unless you're accusing Spasm and Steamer of being full retards, then i can't see how they could jump the shark on this like you did lol...

Bruce Dern
04-14-2013, 12:21 AM
oh that was all definitely in anger lol....i most likely will not buy admin now that all this is here for reference and proof. also, as several people have stated before, it must be something that valve or steam has done to change my latency because i was previously (a few years ago i used to play sporadically in ibis, and i would get around 10 latency. i have not changed anything since then (well aside from getting a new isp (went from comcast to verizon). have not changed any settings (except set my rates to server specifications) or done anything. i usually don't get any shit for it (or at least when i do, i tell people my circumstances and they leave it at that, because in the end i am not lagging and am fairly easy to kill :P)
edit: i also appreciate all that you admins do here, and definitely understand wanting to get rid of ping maskers. i've seen people in there that were lagging a hell of a lot and had latencies of 5 or 1 or whatever) lagging so much it made them hard to kill mind you. but when i am confronted on the matter and tell you all the absolute truth and give you ways to verify my claims, i expect to be left alone. what was i supposed to do? lie and say i was ping masking to get him off my back? i still couldn't have changed my latency...i mean unless i went to download a bunch of porn :P. i admit i got heated with gummybear both in game and in steam messages, but that was only because he was basically calling me a liar and telling me to fix something that i cannot possibly fix. it's like accusing me of murder and demanding that i show him the murder weapon....how am i supposed to help him lol. in the future, just please work a little bit harder before handing out bans and kicks all willy nilly. i gave you SEVERAL easy ways to find out that i was telling the truth

Rellikdloc
04-14-2013, 02:06 AM
Not everything can happen at the snap of your fingers. Just b/c someone says they are not lying doesnt mean they are or are not. Yes you provided proof but that also takes time to look at and sort out the problem as to why this is happening in the first place. He kicked you and told you to fix it, correct you might not have been able to fix it but he was doing procedure. Sometimes a kick will take care of certain ppl that are playing illegaly. You were ban b/c you kept arguing with an admin and talking over him instead of listening to him you cant tell and admin what to do and to "leave you alone" b/c you told him the truth. Making this post is what you should have done when he kicked you the 1st time instead of rejoining when you knew there would be a problem. I mean you've known there was problem, you admitted that you had conflict over this before with starsmine. This post should have been written then and you would have never had this problem in the 1st place. Dont get your panties all in a bunch, next time just try and go about it in the right way and things will work themselves out like they did here today, its not like this problem even took a full day to get taken care of.

StarsMine
04-14-2013, 02:13 AM
Ill apologize again about my personal kick though I cant speak for 5 lb gummy.
Though as zero showed, it still should not be possible. Playing ON the server gave him 5 latency.

Gl have fun, and next time you get shit, tell them to talk to me, or one of the other admins that have posted here. And make your posts more readable if you can. Capitalize your damn I's and the begging of your sentences. Paragraphs are your friends.

@ cyber, hell I have no idea, still should be yay...I think.

i2o4
04-14-2013, 03:45 AM
An informative article on ping vs latency by a Valve programmer:
http://www.bluesnews.com/articles/latency_vs_ping.shtml

"Ping is a simple round trip time for a message from one computer to another."
Latency is more complicated, and is affected by variables such as client FPS, server FPS, and server ticrate.

So the assumption that latency = (ping - 40) based on your respective values of 5 and 45 should not be generalized as a rule of thumb. In Zero's case, his ping was only 1 or 5 above latency. I've been accused of ping masking as well, although not by admins. I usually have a ping of around 5 because I live close to the server and have a fiber optic connection, but my latency is considerably higher because I often get 20-30 FPS in WCS, depending on map and player activity.

Patmonster
04-14-2013, 08:08 AM
An informative article on ping vs latency by a Valve programmer:
http://www.bluesnews.com/articles/latency_vs_ping.shtml

Very good article. So while ping - 40 maybe a general rule, it is not what is actually happening. I have to say since valve's most recent updates that ping below 5 is no longer an instant kickable offence.

BUT,
Let's just say - for shits and giggles - that he is ping masking. He isn't lagging or hurting anyone in the server. He dies when you shoot him, he shoots other people and they die just as normally, why on earth would we kick someone for that? I did a bit of googleing and while I haven't tested it yet, it seems like ping masking can be done by just a simple command. So his ping could be effected by a command he forgot he put in. Who knows? Point being, he isn't lagging, he isn't hurting anyone. No need for ban.

StarsMine
04-14-2013, 12:13 PM
An informative article on ping vs latency by a Valve programmer:
http://www.bluesnews.com/articles/latency_vs_ping.shtml

"Ping is a simple round trip time for a message from one computer to another."
Latency is more complicated, and is affected by variables such as client FPS, server FPS, and server ticrate.

So the assumption that latency = (ping - 40) based on your respective values of 5 and 45 should not be generalized as a rule of thumb. In Zero's case, his ping was only 1 or 5 above latency. I've been accused of ping masking as well, although not by admins. I usually have a ping of around 5 because I live close to the server and have a fiber optic connection, but my latency is considerably higher because I often get 20-30 FPS in WCS, depending on map and player activity.
once you go below 45 ping, the ping-40 no longer works, and should show a latency of 5. If thats what your showing, and its not going below that your fine.

Patmonster
04-14-2013, 01:51 PM
once you go below 45 ping, the ping-40 no longer works, and should show a latency of 5. If thats what your showing, and its not going below that your fine.


Well after some google searching I really couldn't find proof to deny or confirm that 5 is the min. anymore. Even in that article there is nothing that says anything about a "cap." But again, this just leads back to my second statement. If he isn't hurting anyone, no reason to kick/ban him in the future.

Rellikdloc
04-14-2013, 11:38 PM
pat cmon did you read anything? he wasnt ban for ping masking only kicked.. he posted in here b/c he was having issues with that topic tho.

Bruce Dern
04-14-2013, 11:54 PM
pat cmon did you read anything? he wasnt ban for ping masking only kicked.. he posted in here b/c he was having issues with that topic tho. i was banned after being kicked and told to come back without ping masking and to fix my rates (which i did, and they were barely off by anything at all). both were for something i obviously could not control (short of moving or finding a new isp)
edit: or technically i was banned for "ignoring admins" i did not ignore him however, i told him my circumstances and that i couldn't do anything about it (except fix my rates slightly). so by my doing what i was told to do, i was banned

ZERO
04-15-2013, 12:08 AM
I would say that given what we now know about latency it should be clear not from the actual value but instead when an abnormally low value is combined with a client being laggy which is logically impossible.

Patmonster
04-15-2013, 12:52 AM
pat cmon did you read anything? he wasnt ban for ping masking only kicked.. he posted in here b/c he was having issues with that topic tho.

Rellik cmon, did you? damn dude. He was banned but that is WAYYY besides the point of what I was talking about.
Read before post :icon_mrgreen::plzdie:

jwtemp
04-15-2013, 08:16 AM
Rellik cmon, did you? damn dude. He was banned but that is WAYYY besides the point of what I was talking about.
Read before post :icon_mrgreen::plzdie:

Pat, you're new here, so you aren't aware of this, but Rellik can't really read. Harsh bro. :(

Rellikdloc
04-15-2013, 07:29 PM
sry pat didnt realize i to spell things out :), i meant he wasnt ban for ping masking yes he was ban but it was for ignoring gummy. mmmkay

ZERO
04-30-2013, 03:15 AM
I could just run this and we then have the servers auto kick anyone trying to mask: https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=98195