Race Balancing

[Axiom Guard]

I have read the post about Slaying the Vaga-Monsters.

That said, I would like to expand on RACE BALANCE a bit (if nothing else, just for another viewpoint to think about).


In every single game I have ever played anywhere, FPS or anything else; game balance is the most important aspect of the game. A good for instance is Team Fortress 2. It has invisible spies, super fast scouts, sentry-building engineers, etc. But it is very well balanced and tweaked over the years so that there is no real advantage to any class a person would choose except the player's own expertise. But a truly rounded player can play any class and do just as well with any of them, and this allows him to choose a class based on how the enemy is playing rather than just because they are good with one race.

The same should be true with this game. But it is not. Some races really are better, so much so that people have complained for years about them. If the races are not balanced, then the game is not balanced. Most races are just played to level them up in order to get one of the most powerful races. Why even have them if they are so weak that they are largely unplayed?

If you asked players to rank the best races, it would be relatively universal about which ones were picked the most as the very best. If that's true, then there's a balance issue; and it should be addressed. Reducing the health or increasing the timer to be able to do things would go a long way toward making the game more balanced; much like how the human's teleport was nerfed a very long time ago by greatly increasing the time to be able to teleport. Previous to this, a human was a better match for some of the strongest races. I don't remember the timer setting for arch-mage, but a quick setting made that race very powerful as well. If the most overwhelming races such as vaga had longer timers or greatly reduced health, then they would be more reasonable and better balanced.

And that's what should be happening with all races. They should be tweaked and re-tweaked until you get to a proper balance where when polling players about the best race the result is more random and less obvious.

This isn't just my opinion. It's the way ALL GAME CREATORS manage the balance of game play. Every single publisher spends hundreds of hours tweaking every aspect of the game until it is as well-rounded as possible. Then it is up to the players to become expert at what they enjoy most. Otherwise you end up with tons of races that are rarely ever used and some that are always used in almost every game because of inbalance. The tweaking of each race is a wise and mature aspect of creating a fun, balanced gaming environment.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I have read the post about Slaying the Vaga-Monsters.

That said, I would like to expand on RACE BALANCE a bit (if nothing else, just for another viewpoint to think about).


In every single game I have ever played anywhere, FPS or anything else; game balance is the most important aspect of the game. A good for instance is Team Fortress 2. It has invisible spies, super fast scouts, sentry-building engineers, etc. But it is very well balanced and tweaked over the years so that there is no real advantage to any class a person would choose except the player's own expertise. But a truly rounded player can play any class and do just as well with any of them, and this allows him to choose a class based on how the enemy is playing rather than just because they are good with one race.

The same should be true with this game. But it is not. Some races really are better, so much so that people have complained for years about them. If the races are not balanced, then the game is not balanced. Most races are just played to level them up in order to get one of the most powerful races. Why even have them if they are so weak that they are largely unplayed?

If you asked players to rank the best races, it would be relatively universal about which ones were picked the most as the very best. If that's true, then there's a balance issue; and it should be addressed. Reducing the health or increasing the timer to be able to do things would go a long way toward making the game more balanced; much like how the human's teleport was nerfed a very long time ago by greatly increasing the time to be able to teleport. Previous to this, a human was a better match for some of the strongest races. I don't remember the timer setting for arch-mage, but a quick setting made that race very powerful as well. If the most overwhelming races such as vaga had longer timers or greatly reduced health, then they would be more reasonable and better balanced.

And that's what should be happening with all races. They should be tweaked and re-tweaked until you get to a proper balance where when polling players about the best race the result is more random and less obvious.

This isn't just my opinion. It's the way ALL GAME CREATORS manage the balance of game play. Every single publisher spends hundreds of hours tweaking every aspect of the game until it is as well-rounded as possible. Then it is up to the players to become expert at what they enjoy most. Otherwise you end up with tons of races that are rarely ever used and some that are always used in almost every game because of inbalance. The tweaking of each race is a wise and mature aspect of creating a fun, balanced gaming environment.

well written post!

some races are meant to be more powerful than others. that's why you need to work harder to level up enough to unlock them. and besides, one of the most powerful races is unlocked at level 0, anyway. WCS is perfectly balanced at the moment, other than evasion proccing a bit too often. If you are smart and know how to shoot, you can take pretty much any race out there and do well. Will you do better with a more powerful race? maybe. but claiming that it is imbalanced or wrong because you don't understand ibis WCS is foolish.

when did you start playing ibis WCS?

[Axiom Guard]

well written post!

some races are meant to be more powerful than others. that's why you need to work harder to level up enough to unlock them. and besides, one of the most powerful races is unlocked at level 0, anyway. WCS is perfectly balanced at the moment, other than evasion proccing a bit too often. If you are smart and know how to shoot, you can take pretty much any race out there and do well. Will you do better with a more powerful race? maybe. but claiming that it is imbalanced or wrong because you don't understand ibis WCS is foolish.

when did you start playing ibis WCS?

Quite a while ago. I have all the races. I recently started playing CS again, and this was one of my first stops.

Once again if you hold a poll about which races are the most powerful, then it will be obvious to you from the return data on that poll that there is imbalance. If there were not, then players would simply choose what they most enjoy playing. But if you are honest with yourself, you know which races will be picked over and over and over again in such a poll. And this suggests a huge balance problem. Game balance should be the highest priority. It's what makes games great.

[What]

This has already been talked about before, and nothing needs to be balanced. Some races are easier to play than others, but there is always a counter for another race. Sure the vagas are pretty powerful, and so is molecule, but they can all be effectively countered by another race or someone who is just good at the game. "Balance" would make the game to vanilla and uninteresting. Moreover, "balancing" a slew of races with different and unique abilities is not possible in the way you describe since there would be far too many variables to account for. I've seen plenty of the better players use some of the so called weaker races and do damn well.

[Axiom Guard]

I just played and I was the only player with a positive ratio on the losing team. It didn't matter, we got our asses kicked up and down and all around.

If you personally don't care about game balance, that's fine I guess. But the fact of the matter remains; every game developer that ever sold a game spent an immense amount of time on game balance. It can and should be done. And it doesn't need to mean nerfing races, although that's one way. It could also mean increasing the powers of other races, such as a faster timer for the ultimates, etc.


It would *NOT* be boring. The best games in all human history have always been the closest matches that were won by a field goal or a final last ditch effort throw of a basketball at the buzzer. EVERY PLAYER enjoyed EVERY MINUTE of the game because it was so close, and all the time everyone knew that it could go either way. What's boring is watching an MMA fight go 15 seconds. What's boring is a 44-9 superbowl. What's boring is when you're in a WCS game and the score is 19-4 and there's no real hope for a victory at all. The winners get a little joy I guess, but NOTHING AT ALL compared to how people would feel if it ended up being 20-19. THAT is game balance, and THAT is the best entertainment you can ever enjoy.

[CYBER]

Hey axiom, first of all, complements on the good post. Although this same subject has been touched upon many times before, I'm actually genuinely happy that you posted your case in a well written format, and didn't simply go on a rage wagon to scrap the strong races.

That being said, let me tell you something.
WCS is NOT balanced. It will never be. But that's just the beauty of it.
There is no ONE race that overcomes all of them. It is true however that there are races that are indubitably stronger than other races in SOME aspects.
It all falls under the "Perfect Imbalance" concept.
See here and you'll see exactly where we stand:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

This is VERY obvious to notice in our server when you see people going to races with immunities, or buying laces and so forth to counter vagas.
Heck, if im playing a molecule, and half the other team decided to jump on shadow hunter? I'd definitely consider swapping my race because no amount of anti_wards would ever be sufficient. Not to mention that shadow hunters can shoot through your 100% invulnerable state.

If all the races are equally strong, there's no point of swapping races and working harder to unlock new ones (unless you want to be a level-ranking whore).
And that's really the core of our server: changing tactics and races to counter everyone else.
If a perfect balance is reached, it will just be a game of grinding instead of true genuine tactical gameplay.

ANOTHER concept we need to touch on here is taking into account the PLAYER using a race. As a game designer, it is VERY hard to take into account WHO's using that race, due to the fact that there are infinite possibilities of using each race in each player's own gamestyle.

For example, try to see how many players who've had Vagabond and Vagalion unlocked AND maxxed since forever, and yet are easily destroyed by other players.
The race ITSELF is not OP, but put it into a decent player's hands, with their own gameplay, and you have yourself a problem for the poor bastards.

For example, take that same vagabond and put it in Spasm or Masskid or Blamm's (or *humbly* even my) hands and you'd be hating on vagabond for the rest of the game. Heck Shady might do well against noobs, get owned by a few. However, vaga vs vaga, me and shady will bash heads forever, not because one of us is better than the other or better than the other players, but because we know each other as players and we READ each other's gameplay constantly. Another case of Player vs Player, not race vs race.

Vagabond is considered to be a stronger and more survival-ish race than vagaLION, however, put me against Wolfenstinger as a Bond vs Lion, and I can already admit to you that I'd get my ass whooped from mondays to sundays...

Heck, I've seen Brett MASSACRE people with Undead, Wolf holding an entire hostage room ALONE vs 7 other players (including humans, vagabond-me, and nebulas) only with a "crappy" genocide.

So to answer your question : is wcs unbalanced? Oh hell yeah. Is it TOOO unbalanced? Not really, only if you underestimate the races you play.

Sure rapscallions are argued to be weak, but holy fuck do these fuckers help at getting those "op" vagas stuck out of the blue. You just need to know how to play each race, and that can only come by getting your ass kicked daily until you change your OWN gameplay to fit the race.
You do NOT change the race to fit every player's gameplay, even if the gameplay itself is a universal tactic used by many.

Also, you need to take into account the people you are playing with. Most of the bitching that comes from the server is no longer a problem with the races, but the team distributions of those players USING those races. Swap a couple players around? And i can ASSURE you that the Vaga or human or molecule that was DESTROYING said team will have a harder fucking time keeping up.

There are times where I'd be wrecking an enemy team with a vaga because no one is countering me, and some random faggot i've never heard of starts flanking me and owning me. I check the hidden player names and I discover it's Tom Erdenay that just joined and playing solely to counter my ass. Surely enough, my team loses their first round... ONE player can make a difference, no matter what race they're on. Because he plays support and synergies with his team flawlessly.

Heck, playing a magician on a winning team will most likely get you killed and be counter intuitive. Put a couple bird-proccing magicians and a "camping" bloodmage on that team, and that OP vaga and molecule or even spidey will have the hardest time catching up to those birds...

tl/dr:
Chill on this thought for now: There is no one race that you can play all the time unless you wish to be countered all the time. Counter the counters. Play smart. And... well... hope that you'll find a loophole in the enemy's team structure.... And fyi, that loophole changes every game and every round. Be vigilant, and most importantly: enjoy the imbalanced game. It's more of a challenge than grinding...
How many games of the perfectly balanced Tic-Tac-Toe can you play before you figure out that if everyone was playing with optimal strategies, no one wins. There's no challenge or fun in it.
And this is why our servers will always be amazing.
Peace. and Thank you for your post, and for reading this, i hope.

[Axiom Guard]

Thanks Cyber. That was an amazing post and it does change my mind about balancing.

I would still argue that some races are exceedingly powerful and should be adjusted. But you have changed my mind about quite a bit of where I was coming from.


Could you please consider very slight modifications? There is a valid reason why players routinely call out for certain races to be toned down.




And again, thank you so much for your time and kind consideration. I'm not just bitching. I'm also trying to help. So Thanks!

[CYBER]

Thanks Cyber. That was an amazing post and it does change my mind about balancing.

I would still argue that some races are exceedingly powerful and should be adjusted. But you have changed my mind about quite a bit of where I was coming from.


Could you please consider very slight modifications? There is a valid reason why players routinely call out for certain races to be toned down.




And again, thank you so much for your time and kind consideration. I'm not just bitching. I'm also trying to help. So Thanks!

Glad I could help. We get these types of posts a lot, and they usually get side tracked with people bitching about the bitchers.
But yeah, try to find your own game style. U'll find it.

Arguably some races need a bit of a tone down, but only because they're doing shit they're not supposed to do in their own description:
ex: human's bash. Spidey's TOOO high evasion.
And some shit needs a tiny buff, like the void's proc rate and MAYBE the bird, just by like 5-10%... and perhaps hiding the rapscallion rings...

but other than that. Everything's all gd.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Glad I could help. We get these types of posts a lot, and they usually get side tracked with people bitching about the bitchers.
But yeah, try to find your own game style. U'll find it.

Arguably some races need a bit of a tone down, but only because they're doing shit they're not supposed to do in their own description:
ex: human's bash. Spidey's TOOO high evasion.
And some shit needs a tiny buff, like the void's proc rate and MAYBE the bird, just by like 5-10%... and perhaps hiding the rapscallion rings...

but other than that. Everything's all gd.

what's wrong w/ bash?

[maynard]

WCS is balanced fine... as it's not meant 2 have every race at the exact same level of power... and those races that are far more powerful have limitations set for them.

Tf2 and everything else you're mentioning is irrelevant, as it has nothing 2 do with our server and what we went for.

[Axiom Guard]

How much is Ibis?

If I purchased it, then I could make it more balanced.

[brett friggin favre]

How much is Ibis?

If I purchased it, then I could make it more balanced.

the point is it doesnt need to be balanced. each race is strong in certain situations (except rap), each race has a counter (especially rap), each race trumps something (except rap)

[acolyte_to_jippity]

How much is Ibis?

If I purchased it, then I could make it more balanced.

what are you talking about? are you talking about buying the whole clan? if so, then LOL.

are you talking about buying your way INTO the clan? if so, then LOL!!!

[Axiom Guard]

what are you talking about? are you talking about buying the whole clan? if so, then LOL.

are you talking about buying your way INTO the clan? if so, then LOL!!!

It's a collection of servers and this website right? Based off user donations?
How much could it possibly be??

It could be a decent investment. And then I could invoke the golden rule - "He who has the gold, makes the rules".
It's good to be king.

My family was based in North Dakota as farmers. In the recent past that entire area has become America's latest boom town with all the oil they are finding in people's backyards, like my family's. Kids are making $20 an hour at McDonalds there! To start!!
We sold our farm and moved to the city with our instant wealth. THis would just be another "thing" to do, item on the internet to buy. Then I wouldn't have to deal with people telling me, just deal with it, just get a race that combats it, just this or just that. When the typical outcome of a game ends up being that one team has 20 and the other team has 3, then that's a symptom of a problem. If it is ignored, then it continues.

I haven't been playing Counter-Strike for about a year. When I last played, it was just as bad. Nothing has changed. Nothing is going to change. That's what the message is. You say, "We've heard all this before so many times". THAT SHOULD BE A BIG RED FLAG!!!

[acolyte_to_jippity]

It's a collection of servers and this website right? Based off user donations?
How much could it possibly be??

It could be a decent investment. And then I could invoke the golden rule - "He who has the gold, makes the rules".
It's good to be king.

My family was based in North Dakota as farmers. In the recent past that entire area has become America's latest boom town with all the oil they are finding in people's backyards, like my family's. Kids are making $20 an hour at McDonalds there! To start!!
We sold our farm and moved to the city with our instant wealth. THis would just be another "thing" to do, item on the internet to buy. Then I wouldn't have to deal with people telling me, just deal with it, just get a race that combats it, just this or just that. When the typical outcome of a game ends up being that one team has 20 and the other team has 3, then that's a symptom of a problem. If it is ignored, then it continues.

I haven't been playing Counter-Strike for about a year. When I last played, it was just as bad. Nothing has changed. Nothing is going to change. That's what the message is. You say, "We've heard all this before so many times". THAT SHOULD BE A BIG RED FLAG!!!

oh god i needed to read that. you've just made my day.

had i any room in my sig, i would immortalize you in it. sadly, it is taken by the wise words of far more important people. but know that this comment, and the laughs it brought me, shall forever reside within my heart.


now i need to run out to KMart.

[Axiom Guard]

now i need to run out to KMart.

I don't even know what that means.


Anyway, what could it be worth? $4,000? $6,000?
I could poop that.

[maynard]

.... I lol'd

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I don't even know what that means.


Anyway, what could it be worth? $4,000? $6,000?
I could poop that.

it is a store. i need to purchase another pair of dress pants for interviews, and some goods for my appartment. i mentioned it to show just how little i think of this thread, as i would normally not pass up a chance to ridicule and belittle people like you, and yet i am refraining from doing so because of the afforementioned trip i must take.

you really haven't spent much time at ibis, have you?

[Axiom Guard]

you really haven't spent much time at ibis, have you?

The forums? Very, very little.
I suppose I would feel the same though. Who cares if some bloke has some money?
I guess I'm just frustrated.

[ZERO]

you really haven't spent much time at ibis, have you?
The forums? Very, very little.
I suppose I would feel the same though. Who cares if some bloke has some money?
I guess I'm just frustrated.

6969...

[What]

His rich yo, and clearly spends his time wisely with his thousands of mcdonalds dollars.

[Carmichal]

wait? NO WAY you can be srs about buying IBIS. He has to be trolling. Money can't buy you everything kiddo, and people who think so get a swift kick in the face from reality.

[Axiom Guard]

wait? NO WAY you can be srs about buying IBIS. He has to be trolling. Money can't buy you everything kiddo, and people who think so get a swift kick in the face from reality.

Nope. THe truth of life that I have found with my newfound wealth is that *EVERYTHING* is for sale, as long as the price is right.

I have literally evicted people from their own home, because I wanted it. I made them an offer they could not refuse (they weren't even interested in selling), and now it's one of my houses.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Nope. THe truth of life that I have found with my newfound wealth is that *EVERYTHING* is for sale, as long as the price is right.

I have literally evicted people from their own home, because I wanted it. I made them an offer they could not refuse (they weren't even interested in selling), and now it's one of my houses.

so you're a cunt. good to know, go fuck yourself.

[Carmichal]

Nope. THe truth of life that I have found with my newfound wealth is that *EVERYTHING* is for sale, as long as the price is right.

I have literally evicted people from their own home, because I wanted it. I made them an offer they could not refuse (they weren't even interested in selling), and now it's one of my houses.

You are so full of shit. And it's also good to know what a pos you think you could be if you had enough money. Get cancer.

[brett friggin favre]

i second the two posts above me and add this:

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Go+Fuck+Yourself.+Karl+imparts+wisdom+upon+fuck+fa ces+of_67c06a_3669080.jpg

aaaaand

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/63/6327/3XJ7100Z/posters/you-just-made-my-shit-list-funny-poster.jpg

[CYBER]

Nope. THe truth of life that I have found with my newfound wealth is that *EVERYTHING* is for sale, as long as the price is right.

I have literally evicted people from their own home, because I wanted it. I made them an offer they could not refuse (they weren't even interested in selling), and now it's one of my houses.


money couldn't buy you skill when i was raping ur face yesterday :D

fun fact ^

lol, i just couldn't resist the temptation of trolling u at least once.


That being said, I HIGHLY doubt IBIS will ever be sold. And to be honest? If IBIS changes hands, it wouldn't be ibis anymore... Heck, zero poured his blood and soul into making it the community it is now, without him, ibis would just be another crappy server that uses pre-made plugins by some other second hand developer who wouldn't take into account integrating everything the right way, and constantly fixing them and building upon them like zero does.

Heck the entire wcs server alone is proof that IBIS is not like any other warcraft server because zero does everything from scratch, and i highly doubt you'd be able to do what zero does ;)

besides, google ibisgaming. It's the NUMBER ONE server in north america, and the second best server in the world right after HellsGamer. And honestly? HellsGamer only get the number 1 spot because of it's european and eastern-based community of players who get high ping when trying to connect to ibis.
Again, fun fact.


Long live the IBIS dictatorship, long live the master race. Hail IBIS.

[Axiom Guard]

LOL!!!! Wait a minute. Because I have some money, you guys are so completely jealous as to toss insults around???????

Whatever.

[brett friggin favre]

since this thread's heading this way....eh, why not

someone forum ban this fucker for having 2 forum accounts ( http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/6613-Ban-Request-Star-Collector-STEAM_0-1-79529 ). this guy = sword of gideon.

guy's clearly a menace ( http://v4servers.com/showthread.php?4462-STEAM_0-1-79529 ) he's the one typing the shit in all caps. ( http://forums.parkinglotcrew.com/showthread.php?tid=354 ) another perma ban for asshattery (this is all just from page 1 of a google search). numerous other perma bans for similar conduct...im talking in the teens, and that's just servers that happen to have sourcebans.

you won't be here much longer. i'll enjoy watching you go. i'm sure you'll make some rage post threatening to eat all of our children or hack into our computers or something, always a fun ride.

[Axiom Guard]

money couldn't buy you skill when i was raping ur face yesterday :D

fun fact ^

lol, i just couldn't resist the temptation of trolling u at least once.


That being said, I HIGHLY doubt IBIS will ever be sold. And to be honest? If IBIS changes hands, it wouldn't be ibis anymore... Heck, zero poured his blood and soul into making it the community it is now, without him, ibis would just be another crappy server that uses pre-made plugins by some other second hand developer who wouldn't take into account integrating everything the right way, and constantly fixing them and building upon them like zero does.

Heck the entire wcs server alone is proof that IBIS is not like any other warcraft server because zero does everything from scratch, and i highly doubt you'd be able to do what zero does ;)

besides, google ibisgaming. It's the NUMBER ONE server in north america, and the second best server in the world right after HellsGamer. And honestly? HellsGamer only get the number 1 spot because of it's european and eastern-based community of players who get high ping when trying to connect to ibis.
Again, fun fact.


Long live the IBIS dictatorship, long live the master race. Hail IBIS.



I would never even consider removing Zero from anything if I purchased Ibis.
It's just that I have gone through the proper channels of proposing changes, and found that the community is reluctant; even though there are obvious problems.

I wouldn't kick anyone out of IBis. I wouldn't really even throw my weight around that much. I would merely install an auto-balance system and tweak the races a little bit. *YOU CYBER* and the person you learned the video of perfect imbalance did teach me that ultimate balance isn't even what I'm after. I just want fair game play. That's it.


All this said; I would like it if the people who are respected regulars would recognize the fact that I *NEVER* disrespected anyone here with insults. I have been very considerate and self-moderated. I'm disappointed in some of the posters who have been disrespectful toward me. There's no reason for it. If you disagree, then they should be like you Cyber, who INFORMED ME in an enlightening way, instead of just dismissing me or disrespecting me.

[Carmichal]

LOL!!!! Wait a minute. Because I have some money, you guys are so completely jealous as to toss insults around???????

Whatever.

No it's more to with the fact that you think that makes you better than others and you can do whatever you want. You dug your own grave and we are just helping you bury yourself now.

No one in IBIS bought their way in unless you count the 11bucks for admin. You can't come in here and throw around some money expecting to get what you want. You have to show you are dedicated. Also bullshit, you are more than likely a teen loser. If anyone has money it's ya ma and pop. I doubt it's really all that impressive anyways. Fucking children I say.

[Axiom Guard]

this guy = sword of gideon.


Yes this is true. And it backs up what I have said about not being around for about year or whatever.

I did not know what my previous name was. So I made this one.

I've read through some of my previous posts and they appear to be consistent. Although I believe that I've done a better job of dealing with my emotions this time around when the insults start flying.

[brett friggin favre]

Yes this is true. And it backs up what I have said about not being around for about year or whatever.

I did not know what my previous name was. So I made this one.

I've read through some of my previous posts and they appear to be consistent. Although I believe that I've done a better job of dealing with my emotions this time around when the insults start flying.

except when i muted you in-game for spamming "LOOK AT THAT GUY HE'S SO UGLY" for 10 goddamn minutes. real good job controlling yourself there buddy, next time it'll be a ban :wtg:

[Axiom Guard]

except when i muted you in-game for spamming "LOOK AT THAT GUY HE'S SO UGLY" for 10 goddamn minutes. real good job controlling yourself there buddy, next time it'll be a ban :wtg:

Untrue. It was not 10 minutes. It was at most 1. And no one else has an ugly avatar. Don't you have opinions about the charisma of how people look? I'm quite certain everyone does. I'm obviously vocal or I wouldn't be posting, and I have opinions. It doesn't mean they are facts, unless you agree with them; then I guess they are. Just as your opinions are meaningless to me, unless I agree with them.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------

I STILL do not have an answer to my question. How much is IBIS worth?

It's been around for a long time, but that doesn't automatically guarantee worth. Worth is the value of a company, usually to stock-holders. I'm interested in who I need to contact to buy IBIS. So is it Zero? Someone else? Who do I need to speak with to talk about buying this website and all of its servers?

[Carmichal]

Untrue. It was not 10 minutes. It was at most 1. And no one else has an ugly avatar. Don't you have opinions about the charisma of how people look? I'm quite certain everyone does. I'm obviously vocal or I wouldn't be posting, and I have opinions. It doesn't mean they are facts, unless you agree with them; then I guess they are. Just as your opinions are meaningless to me, unless I agree with them.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------

I STILL do not have an answer to my question. How much is IBIS worth?

It's been around for a long time, but that doesn't automatically guarantee worth. Worth is the value of a company, usually to stock-holders. I'm interested in who I need to contact to buy IBIS. So is it Zero? Someone else? Who do I need to speak with to talk about buying this website and all of its servers?


Try speaking to your asshole it will do you as much good as speaking to zero.

[brett friggin favre]

Try speaking to your asshole it will do you as much good as speaking to zero.

how can he speak to his asshole if he's already talking out of it?

[Carmichal]

how can he speak to his asshole if he's already talking out of it?

True I forgot that. Find the nearest stray dog, talk to it's booty hole.

[Tickle Me Emo]

Oh man, this is going to be an entertaining few days before this guy gets forum banned.

Also, welcome to the IBIS forums, where we shit on you for being stupid.

[Axiom Guard]

It's quite humorous to me that you request people to be civil when they are engaged in discourse with you, and yet you yourselves cannot remain civil at all.
Your insults apparently do not bother me. I'm not reflecting them back at you.

I find it a bit hypocritical and that's about it.

[Carmichal]

It's quite humorous to me that you request people to be civil when they are engaged in discourse with you, and yet you yourselves cannot remain civil at all.
Your insults apparently do not bother me. I'm not reflecting them back at you.

I find it a bit hypocritical and that's about it.

get cancer faggot.

[Axiom Guard]

Your kitty video is cute.



(Can I buy it?). ;)

[What]

Nope. THe truth of life that I have found with my newfound wealth is that *EVERYTHING* is for sale, as long as the price is right.

I have literally evicted people from their own home, because I wanted it. I made them an offer they could not refuse (they weren't even interested in selling), and now it's one of my houses.

The thing is, you already stated things about your family moving and "our" new found wealth, which seems to indicate that you are a child of parents who are rich and want to pretend as if that makes you cool or important.

[jwtemp]

Honestly, I can't believe I even just read this thread. Its very existence is proof positive that idiocy is real. 'How much could it possibly be worth? $4,000? $6,000?'

Want a price for IBIS? Try priceless, you insolent little cunt. And learn to respect other people a little more and not be so condescending. Lots and lots of people have money, not all of them act like filthy little dicks about it.

[Xepp]

Axiom,

I believe you can contact Zero and say something like: Hey, if you implement a proper auto balance and tweak these classes a bit I give you $1000.
Or start a new server and buy the code from Zero + updates for a year or something. Who say no to a little extra cash?

Also, sad to see all the childish flaming in this thread. Axiom behaved civilized and people throw hate at him for no reason... just sad to see.

[Erdenay]

Axiom,

I believe you can contact Zero and say something like: Hey, if you implement a proper auto balance and tweak these classes a bit I give you $1000.
Or start a new server and buy the code from Zero + updates for a year or something. Who say no to a little extra cash?

Also, sad to see all the childish flaming in this thread. Axiom behaved civilized and people throw hate at him for no reason... just sad to see.

If you would be aware of the backstory, you would realize why and what happened. Also, I sincerely doubt that a 1000$ would be enough for either the code or those tweaks.

[Chikun]

Oh god I'm failing... Damnit...

[What]

Necro ftw bitches!!!!!!