helllluuuurrrr

[Clip]

Hi, new to forums I play z mod most of the time hope to see you guys playin

[What]

zombie mod.......

[Clip]

Yea ima try out the gg and wc3 aswell

[Locust]

zm always producing the best people evarrrr!

[brett friggin favre]

zm always producing the best people evarrrr!

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ray-Liotta-Laughing-In-Goodfellas-Gif.gif

uhh welcome anyway lol

[Omegxkid]

Welcome clip, we will see you in the infection Zone. The zombie mod pulls in more people then wcs so chew on that :D!

[Chikun]

Welcome clip, we will see you in the infection Zone. The zombie mod pulls in more people then wcs so chew on that :D!

It's called Quality vs. Quantity

[TheFallen927]

Welcome

[What]

Hey fallen!

[Evil]

welcome to ibis. enjoy your stay.

[Clip]

It's called Quality vs. Quantitywcs is more of a superhero mod so that being said in (my) opinion qualiity is thrown out. neither of the two being great scrim quality. But as for population z mod has more regulars since the wcs server ranges around 6-12 ppl. Enjoy both the servers <3

[Chikun]

wcs is more of a superhero mod so that being said in (my) opinion qualiity is thrown out. neither of the two being great scrim quality. But as for population z mod has more regulars since the wcs server ranges around 6-12 ppl. Enjoy both the servers <3

I was referring to the actual players and the number of ban requests and overall complaints that flood the forum.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

wcs is more of a superhero mod so that being said in (my) opinion qualiity is thrown out. neither of the two being great scrim quality. But as for population z mod has more regulars since the wcs server ranges around 6-12 ppl. Enjoy both the servers <3

i don't even know where to start.

[Locust]

i don't even know where to start.

*gets a vaga stuck*

Clip: "Is he stuck?"
Myself: "Yes"
Clip: "So I can slay him?"
Myself: "No. That's not allowed"
Clip: "But he's stuck"

[What]

*gets a vaga stuck*

Clip: "Is he stuck?"
Myself: "Yes"
Clip: "So I can slay him?"
Myself: "No. That's not allowed"
Clip: "But he's stuck"

Zombie mod......

[Clip]

*gets a vaga stuck*

Clip: "Is he stuck?"
Myself: "Yes"
Clip: "So I can slay him?"
Myself: "No. That's not allowed"
Clip: "But he's stuck" lmao nice... lesson learned (within rthe first couple hours of official wcs gameplay)

[What]

It took you hours to learn that you can't just slay people?

[† ØblivioΩ †]

It took you hours to learn that you can't just slay people?

Vagaspammers aren't people, slaying them doesn't count. ; )

ZM is all the matters. I don't know why I bothered to stomach lvling up to Vaga. WCS is more like 4-12, but mostly always ends up with the same 4-6 dudes running in a circle trying to hunt stuck vagas. Everyone else quits after the vagas roll out to trolllolol the game to death. And with the reference to stuckness... There have been so many delayed games over stuck vagas, or the fact that 95% of people who play vaga ALWAYS /objective ignore. Not to mention they usually join the side that doesn't have objective and will stay in spectate till they can.

Not to mention they will team stack with the most skilled guys on the server. And the lovely fact when you got a veteran that can counter the vaga they ALWAYS move to spectate (or rage quit because their OP class isn't working) to save on stats, which happens way to frequently.

It is ever so slightly retarded... And highly overrated... Not to mention that it's the same map rotation (generally in favor of a vaga class with the spawn rush)
dolls, crackhouse, aztec, cbble, italy, xmas, dust, office (when people are sick of vaga spam and rtv nuke the server)

WCS makes people just straight up never want to come back. The ones that stick around are the ones with the advantage, why would you complain?

If it's already broke don't fix it. Just join ZM, the top players are good because of skill, not because of a class :wtg:

[What]

Vaga bitching, don't leave home without it!

I'd be far more concerned about humans, molecules, nebulas, shadow hunters, jack, santa, and crypt lord. No but you're right, a race that's easily countered by the necklace of immunity is clearly the problem.

[Locust]

Vagaspammers aren't people, slaying them doesn't count. ; )

ZM is all the matters. I don't know why I bothered to stomach lvling up to Vaga. WCS is more like 4-12, but mostly always ends up with the same 4-6 dudes running in a circle trying to hunt stuck vagas. Everyone else quits after the vagas roll out to trolllolol the game to death. And with the reference to stuckness... There have been so many delayed games over stuck vagas, or the fact that 95% of people who play vaga ALWAYS /objective ignore. Not to mention they usually join the side that doesn't have objective and will stay in spectate till they can.

Not to mention they will team stack with the most skilled guys on the server. And the lovely fact when you got a veteran that can counter the vaga they ALWAYS move to spectate (or rage quit because their OP class isn't working) to save on stats, which happens way to frequently.

It is ever so slightly retarded... And highly overrated... Not to mention that it's the same map rotation (generally in favor of a vaga class with the spawn rush)
dolls, crackhouse, aztec, cbble, italy, xmas, dust, office (when people are sick of vaga spam and rtv nuke the server)

WCS makes people just straight up never want to come back. The ones that stick around are the ones with the advantage, why would you complain?

If it's already broke don't fix it. Just join ZM, the top players are good because of skill, not because of a class :wtg:

it takes thought to counter races *gasp* who would've thunk it. Realize that every veteran on the server started off as a noob at one point and we have been through all the shit you're bitching about so you won't get any sympathy from any one

[† ØblivioΩ †]

it takes thought to counter races *gasp* who would've thunk it. Realize that every veteran on the server started off as a noob at one point and we have been through all the shit you're bitching about so you won't get any sympathy from any one

It wasn't bitching, at least not how you think I was... I enjoy WCS, but it has major flaws from spamming that reduce the overall experience of the game mode. I was pointing out the flaw that noobs don't usually stick around and that it's boring for that fact. And I was making a factual statement. I myself can counter a vaga easily. My whole point was that 95% of the people that join out of curiosity just quit. And ergo, makes it boring with the same 6 dudes. And I even pointed out the fact that when you counter them they end up leaving or spectate, making it EXTRA boring. I design maps in my spare time so I just get critical on how gameplay engages.

And again you proved my point. There are few people who stick around. And then it's just a face roll/why try hard? I have played for weeks as vaga with hardly any request and have only seen maybe 8 at best that have vaga class. It is just too easy, and it scares away people attempting to lvl, and that is my only beef. I like a challenge, and more people to kill. Not face/roll all day. But again like I said, the people who enjoy the advantage don't complain, and certainly get defensive when you tread on criticism.

No duh you choose a class to counter another-said class. But, the noobs don't even level a human to lvl 3 before calling it quits. I think you should read the context a little more carefully. Maybe you just misunderstood. Either way, it was more of a rant on the downside of the mod compared to ZM. I wasn't looking for sympathy, but maybe you were trying pick a fight maybe? Or just a bad day perhaps? If I were to point out flaws in Halo 4 would you get just as defensive? I wasn't naming names in my rant but you sure started beating and puffing your chest. Not to mention it was more along the lines of a joke, but we all know its true, maybe you don't have a sense of humor? You have my respect but don't bring drama where it's not needed, k? thx :wtg:

[† ØblivioΩ †]

it takes thought to counter races *gasp* who would've thunk it. Realize that every veteran on the server started off as a noob at one point and we have been through all the shit you're bitching about so you won't get any sympathy from any one


Vaga bitching, don't leave home without it!

I'd be far more concerned about humans, molecules, nebulas, shadow hunters, jack, santa, and crypt lord. No but you're right, a race that's easily countered by the necklace of immunity is clearly the problem.

Vaga is only countered with lace if it's not played correctly, I personally can avoid that "weakness" easily and pretty sure Kinta and several other players are also able to. How do you get stuck gentlemen? By turning invis near someone with lace, don't be near them during teleport, crisis averted. But clearly it's not a problem at all...

By making this list you are pointing out balance issues in several classes, and further proving my point of a broke gameplay of the WCS in GENERAL, which was my point, vagabond was just ONE COMMON example. But please, dismiss the core issue.

Humans? Meh. They got bash but you can teleport or use specials to escape. extra hp but not hard to handle. Teleport is limited.

Molecules? I never have an issue with them but apparently they are hard? They get stuck in place, you literally camp around a corner and throw a flashbang? Issue is only dodge. Flame pred can also get in his face with lace equip to nullify effectiveness.

Shadow hunter? Isnt that op. if you run in his face it's an issue but anti_ward solves that, and it cheaper than lace. Plus flame pred can lol that to pieces too

Jack? Depends on the person. Just a normal guy with an extra skip in his step. When you see one just keep your aim down, problem solved.

Santa? Yeah, annoying on certain maps. If it isn't wide air it's pretty useless. But he is still visible, and a good shot can still take him down.

Crypt Lord? Really? It's op? Okay... Sure... You can see him a mile away, and a lace solves locust issue.

Nebula? Extra dmg and cloud invsi with movement. However spraying in the direction of his muzzle flash will generally land a hit.

Funny thing is, it takes is a well placed shot from a vaga to put all these classes down. And he can do it from range and can avoid fights by being out of their reach in the sky (Which can avoid lace stuck issue, and running out the clock instead of objective, another point that was neglected however people just claim vaga bitching, not surprising, even though it's the rule to do objectives)

And another funny point, is that people claim counter-class yet still agree and prove the point that the way it is currently in place, it is easy to exploit to your advantage. You all are proving it by getting highly defensive instead of offering potential regulation to minimize exploiting. That's what you're supposed to do right? Analyze with critical thinking and deciding what can help everyone enjoy the server more, and not just the few who have high lvl classes to face/roll with *nudge nudge, wink wink*

Everyone knows a smart vaga can put down an entire team, and can be out of range of all their specials. I have been on crackhouse flying around rooftop just picking people off (which most other classes can't get to certain locations, yeah human teleport but it has long cool down and I always headshot the shit out of those sitting ducks when the first appear on roof)

And we all know a vaga can still kick ass with no-scope running through halls as well.

And again people claim vaga bitching. I enjoy the class... That's how I KNOW it's slightly more cheap, you guys do too, so don't pretend. And it is that reason it scares off other people. My whole point, is that cheap classes in particular is what keeps the server low populated.. Ergo, reinforces my point that ZM on average has an overall consistent gameplay that attracts most players because exploiting is limited and doesn't require leveling to get a fair shake at combat.

Again, you vagalovebirds are missing the point. When you use maps that gives an advantage to the class, it discourages other people to level because they can't get you (because they haven't leveled the classes to counter them) All the other classes you can see coming a mile away and is personally not an issue for me. So I am not bitching, I am pointing out a flaw you all clearly see for OTHER players, yet somehow have the balls to retort with such half-assery, and aggressive position that just further proves my point. It's weird logic if you ask me, blinded and stuck in the vaga love goggles I guess.

Now let's say they reduced how much exp it takes for a good majority for the earlier classes, and scale down other exp for others ahead slightly, that could encourage more intense gameplay. Or even increase the cooldown on vaga invisibility to around 2.5 seconds, the 0 cooldown is what makes it slightly op, done the right way you can escape or avoid any and every confrontation.

But then again we wouldn't want to even the playing field would we? And again, like I said, its the same few guys with the same maxed classes (myself included). That run around in circles scaring off a lot of people. I know this because I have done it before (And you guys probably have done it once or twice too)

So stop focusing like a typical fanboys would do and pay attention to the full scale of the criticism.

But you guys can resort to claiming everyone is just qqing. It's like the federal government... The system broke but we don't need to fix it! It works well "enough" for the people on the inside crowd and everyone else is just tough titties.

And again, you all proving my point that it does need to have a few tweeks. Considering in a lot of these maps you can teleport to a spawn under 15 seconds (which vaga players always qq about "are you allowed to ward your own spawn under 20 seconds???!!! I want to get freekillz plz!!")

I have been on cbble and got from t side to ct side in a bit under 10 seconds, taking pot shots at people changing class sets.

And again, please read and actually form a non bias constructive criticism on how to improve gameplay, or explain how that it is truly balanced scaling. Instead of just giving the typical response of: You just mad, we acknowledge the server is less popular but let's ignore the issue as to why!

It's funny, we all know that "vaga bitching" is a thing, so obviously it is just ONE of the classes that should be put under the microscope, in additon to test balancing on other classes listed.

Zombie Mod gets tweeked all the time for balancing. And rules are made for certain maps to improve gameplay, that is common practice. This is how you KNOW when someone is just being a fanboy for their cheap classes at that point when you auto declare "bitching"

I am sure all the players for CoD were "bitching" too about multiplayer scaling and zombie scaling. But hey, the developers actually took the time to take in the information and improved gameplay patch by patch.

What happened to the days of Ibis having critical thinkers? Did you all burn out? Our just been turned into run and gun rage mode internet bullies like CoD has? When I was admin we actually had a basic respect for people before resorting that the individual is just "bitching". Maybe the overall average level of users with higher education has dwindled, guess that also explains the limited vocabulary and going straight for the "bitching" card, that's the easy way out, not surprising either.

Ibis has lost so much respect since I have left, and I can see why. Seems like some leashes need to be reigned in before their head explodes from breathing, and thinking at the same time.

[What]

I stopped reading after "Human? Meh"

[† ØblivioΩ †]

Proved my point again. Stopped reading? Not surprised, quickly retreat when valid argument arises, and can no longer provide a valid argument in return. Even though you didn't have one in the first place...

Try to read it slowly and breath at the same time.

I know it's hard for you.

Especially to discuss on an intellectual level.

Bully = Fail

Stick to text messages, GG :wtg:

[What]

Proved my point again. Stopped reading? Not surprised, quickly retreat when valid argument arises, and can no longer provide a valid argument in return. Even though you didn't have one in the first place...

Try to read it slowly and breath at the same time.

I know it's hard for you.

Especially to discuss on an intellectual level.

Stick to text messages, GG :wtg:

Well, no. When someone begins a long winded soliloquy with an objectively ignorant or incorrect statement, there is no need to continue reading since there is no value in such a pursuit.

Why don't you take some time and find and read the dozens of other posts people have made about this topic. It gets old, and it is bitching what you are doing. The races are not all equal, there are differences among them. If you want to play orc and run around in the open you are gonna get killed a lot, and that isn't the mods fault. Everyone knows that human is the strongest and most op race in the mod, so dismissing it as not very good, you have already proven you not only have no idea what you are talking about, but that any "solution" you have is going to be just as terrible.

Perhaps you need to take a few moments and try and think how to play a mod. Maybe its not what you want to do, maybe you are terrible at adapting your strategy and would prefer to do the same thing round after round and complain how terrible and unbalanced the game is. That is on you, not anyone else or the mod.

Put some effort into life, you might be amazed at what you can accomplish, you may actually be able to overcome obstacles instead of complaining about them and wishing others would remove them for you.

[† ØblivioΩ †]

Well, no. When someone begins a long winded soliloquy with an objectively ignorant or incorrect statement, there is no need to continue reading since there is no value in such a pursuit.

Why don't you take some time and find and read the dozens of other posts people have made about this topic. It gets old, and it is bitching what you are doing. The races are not all equal, there are differences among them. If you want to play orc and run around in the open you are gonna get killed a lot, and that isn't the mods fault. Everyone knows that human is the strongest and most op race in the mod, so dismissing it as not very good, you have already proven you not only have no idea what you are talking about, but that any "solution" you have is going to be just as terrible.

Perhaps you need to take a few moments and try and think how to play a mod. Maybe its not what you want to do, maybe you are terrible at adapting your strategy and would prefer to do the same thing round after round and complain how terrible and unbalanced the game is. That is on you, not anyone else or the mod.

Put some effort into life, you might be amazed at what you can accomplish, you may actually be able to overcome obstacles instead of complaining about them and wishing others would remove them for you.

I think you need to discover things called "mirrors". Joke is on you, if you bothered to read the whole thing you would see just how you are completely proving my point of my ORIGINAL statement. WCS is unbalanced, that is a FACT, you continue to agree yet argue at the same time. Further showing just how ignorant you truly are. You are saying as though I am a noob... When I have nearly all classes max, I am an IT programmer, I own my own business (If you want to reserve a retreat to my property you are welcome), it is it my hobby to look at map balances and class balances across several games, not just CSS, and I design games and modes in my spare time. But yeah, I don't know how a simple game mode works.

"Long winded" the excuse a person makes to a predetermined statement without even reading it.

That's like not reading a contract, and creating an opinion on the document without looking at it. Not all arguments are the same, you just assume so.
I don't know where you work, but where I put on my big boy pants, people get fired for making opinions on documents without reading thoroughly. It's called being an idiot.

You couldn't even spell "Microsoft Office" let alone use it.

I can discuss physics with you if your eyes didn't glaze over. Maybe you should learn the true human potential, and putting effort into your own life before talking about others eh? You know nothing of amazement in life. I overcame my obstacles, but you sure make yourself look like you're way behind the curve.

And like a prattling little child. You still DISMISS my original point yet AGAIN as to WHY ZM on average has consistent gameplay. Again resorting to dismissive logic. It was not bitching, I made the statement why ZM is typically more popular, compared to WCS (because of class exploits, and only used an example that is infamous). Are you really this slow? I guess I am answering my own question.

A comparison of game modes, pointing out a flaws, and balance issues as a response to your ignorance. When my original point, AGAIN, is to WHY ZM is more popular. The proof is in the pudding.

Just like protestors are "bitching" about NSA and Constitutional Rights, yet we know that it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in order to evolve and create better policies. That's how the system improves itself, you really are an ignorant person pretending to having an inkling about logic and critical thinking. You're closed minded, and dismiss what you don't approve, and further avoid the core statement and original issue.

If so many people are having complaints. Well... Maybe there is an issue there? And again, I personally don't have issues, this isn't for my sake. This is for other people. But you still miss the point. Again I ENJOY WCS, it just needs tweeks to make it more noob friendly. To encourage and renew server popularity and have an overall increase in fan base. Other than the bias top holders.

But you just like to argue for the sake of arguing. I think I could have a more invigorating conversation with a chimp that believes it's madonna, at least it would address the original statement of why ZM is more balanced on average...

[jwtemp]

seriouslywhogivesashit.gif

[What]

Congratulations on being able to say absolutely nothing using as many word as you can. You can double down on your incorrectness all you want, its not going to change the reality of the situation.
Grow up dude, you resorted to insults way to quickly, and way to repetitively to be taken seriously by anyone. Don't be blinded by your own ignorance, its no way to go through life. If you actually wish to discuss this topic, again, you need to find and read all of the other threads people have made complaining about how they are terrible at WCS therefore it must be unbalanced. You could also try reading the stuff written by Brett and Tom on how to play and counter the races.

[Carmichal]

God I want to strangle some bitches up in here. Not sure if Oblivion said the NSA spying on us was a good thing. If he did he's first.

[† ØblivioΩ †]

God I want to strangle some bitches up in here. Not sure if Oblivion said the NSA spying on us was a good thing. If he did he's first.

I am saying the NSA is a bad thing. It was an example of what happens when you don't criticize. Because as we all know, it runs rampant when it isn't looked over every once and awhile. And this idiot who doesn't read posts, still avoids my original statement.

I have NO ISSUES PERSONALLY in the gameplay, but I NOTICE that overall gameplay is reduced by exploits. Which causes new potential regulars to quit. Ergo, WHY ZM is more popular...

I added that maybe by simply making early classes have different exp scaling. It would encourage them to stay because they can at least get abilities to defend themselves. And again, he makes statements (without reading) like I don't have any classes leveled, when I clearly pointed out, that myself PLAYING vagabond can easily exploit and gain advantages, and clearing the server.


Another exmaple:

It's like having a lvl 85 in World of Warcraft fighting a lvl 1
There is no shot to survive, and a lvl 1 can't counter anything without abilities.

In WCS there is no "solo" to level up separately from combat, it is purely if you can get kills or win. Or enough deaths to collect enough money to buy tomes (which are cut off at certain lvls and are expensive)

Like I said, before Ferrous Cranus over here says something else stupid. Greater exp gains for earlier classes levels (which would require testing) Might encourage people to stick around.

Again. I did not have issues, but clearly people do. And a smart admin, that actually cares for his clan and server. Would attempt to listen to some degree, instead of just dismissing it period. And we all know WCS has been tweeked before. But there is ALWAYS tweeking needed to be done. It may not be the just classes, but the maps, and rules, that collectively create the issue of exploiting.

Again, common practice. And he want's to claim people need lives and initiates disrespect, then claims others of doing so first? When clearly he can't get his together to form a viable thought process. Let alone read.

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/ferrous.jpg
Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics.

[What]

I am saying the NSA is a bad thing. It was an example of what happens when you don't criticize. Because as we all know, it runs rampant when it isn't looked over every once and awhile. And this idiot who doesn't read posts, still avoids my original statement.

I have NO ISSUES PERSONALLY in the gameplay, but I NOTICE that overall gameplay is reduced by exploits. Which causes new potential regulars to quit. Ergo, WHY ZM is more popular...

I added that maybe by simply making early classes have different exp scaling. It would encourage them to stay because they can at least get abilities to defend themselves. And again, he makes statements (without reading) like I don't have any classes leveled, when I clearly pointed out, that myself PLAYING vagabond can easily exploit and gain advantages, and clearing the server.


Another exmaple:

It's like having a lvl 85 in World of Warcraft fighting a lvl 1
There is no shot to survive, and a lvl 1 can't counter anything without abilities.

In WCS there is no "solo" to level up separately from combat, it is purely if you can get kills or win. Or enough deaths to collect enough money to buy tomes (which are cut off at certain lvls and are expensive)

Like I said, before Ferrous Cranus over here says something else stupid. Greater exp gains for earlier classes levels (which would require testing) Might encourage people to stick around.

Again. I did not have issues, but clearly people do. And a smart admin, that actually cares for his clan and server. Would attempt to listen to some degree, instead of just dismissing it period. And we all know WCS has been tweeked before. But there is ALWAYS tweeking needed to be done. It may not be the just classes, but the maps, and rules, that collectively create the issue of exploiting.

Again, common practice. And he want's to claim people need lives and initiates disrespect, then claims others of doing so first? When clearly he can't get his together to form a viable thought process. Let alone read.

Do you even lift?

[† ØblivioΩ †]

Congratulations on being able to say absolutely nothing using as many word as you can. You can double down on your incorrectness all you want, its not going to change the reality of the situation.
Grow up dude, you resorted to insults way to quickly, and way to repetitively to be taken seriously by anyone. Don't be blinded by your own ignorance, its no way to go through life. If you actually wish to discuss this topic, again, you need to find and read all of the other threads people have made complaining about how they are terrible at WCS therefore it must be unbalanced. You could also try reading the stuff written by Brett and Tom on how to play and counter the races.

7681

At this point, it's amusing.

[† ØblivioΩ †]

Do you even lift?

I do actually, everyday. Do you?

[What]

First: There is no point in talking to you about this since everything you post either contains things that are verifiably wrong, or are just plain lies. You keep doubling down on being wrong and are too lazy to go and look at the history of these issues. I am not going to spoon feed you information.

Second: Everyday? That's great if you want to tone or maintain, but you will not see continued results if you do not give your muscles time to recover. So either you are lying or an idiot, based on case precedent I'd say a combination of the two.

[† ØblivioΩ †]

Cool story bro; it's trying to be clever. How cute.

Not to mention changing the subject to irrelevance.

I will assume based on your deficient ability to address a detailed rebuttal, and lack of focus that you are conceding the discussion. I shall also assume based on your lifting comment that you know nothing about conditioning and physical therapy. I don't feel like educating you. Obviously rational thinking is too difficult for you, so I won't force you to try anymore. Have a good day.

[brett friggin favre]

http://img.pandawhale.com/33229-Penn-Jilette-Shut-the-Fuck-Up-Gv07.gif

seriously.

[Clip]

It took you hours to learn that you can't just slay people?lol did the quote ur talking about say that i was going to slay him for no reason?

---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 PM ----------


lol did the quote ur talking about say that i was going to slay him for no reason?knowingly slay him for no reson*****

[Erdenay]

Pretty much what Brett said. I've got to say that I'm very impressed how derailed this thread has become.

P.S. Oblivion, I'd highly recommend asking all highest ranked and/or best players what race is generally considered to be the strongest. As far as I'm aware, it's almost unanimous consent that human is the strongest single player race whereas nebula has the highest utility and brings the most total value to the team. Yes, vagabond and vagalion along with others mentioned do bring very strong presence and high team destruction potential, but they are countered much easier than the aforementioned races (I.E. nebula/human).

P.P.S. If you know how to counter all of those races so well and if you're such an expert, if you don't mind, explain how you are with 0.77 kdr? Granted, that is a very subjective and skewed ratio and can be deceptive quite a bit (especially on the high end of the table) that still is an extremely low ratio. There are big differences between players who don't know how to use the race and people who actually know how to play it. I'll use a nebula, human and vagabond as an example:

Even the very worst players normally still end up positive on maxed human - and that's not due to their skill, but only due to the race.

People who are bad at nebula tend to do much worse as there's a slightly higher skill cap, but it's still really easy to and most people will end positive with a nebula even if they are not good.

People who can't control vagabond due their skill limit or experience a lot of times even have a negative kdr. Yes, best players do have immense control over the map as they can scout and pick off targets, but overall they will not be the main driving power barring few specific maps (I do agree that maps such as de_port, de_compound and few others are very, very skewed towards vagas).

[Clip]

Vaga is only countered with lace if it's not played correctly, I personally can avoid that "weakness" easily and pretty sure Kinta and several other players are also able to. How do you get stuck gentlemen? By turning invis near someone with lace, don't be near them during teleport, crisis averted. But clearly it's not a problem at all...

By making this list you are pointing out balance issues in several classes, and further proving my point of a broke gameplay of the WCS in GENERAL, which was my point, vagabond was just ONE COMMON example. But please, dismiss the core issue.

Humans? Meh. They got bash but you can teleport or use specials to escape. extra hp but not hard to handle. Teleport is limited.

Molecules? I never have an issue with them but apparently they are hard? They get stuck in place, you literally camp around a corner and throw a flashbang? Issue is only dodge. Flame pred can also get in his face with lace equip to nullify effectiveness.

Shadow hunter? Isnt that op. if you run in his face it's an issue but anti_ward solves that, and it cheaper than lace. Plus flame pred can lol that to pieces too

Jack? Depends on the person. Just a normal guy with an extra skip in his step. When you see one just keep your aim down, problem solved.

Santa? Yeah, annoying on certain maps. If it isn't wide air it's pretty useless. But he is still visible, and a good shot can still take him down.

Crypt Lord? Really? It's op? Okay... Sure... You can see him a mile away, and a lace solves locust issue.

Nebula? Extra dmg and cloud invsi with movement. However spraying in the direction of his muzzle flash will generally land a hit.

Funny thing is, it takes is a well placed shot from a vaga to put all these classes down. And he can do it from range and can avoid fights by being out of their reach in the sky (Which can avoid lace stuck issue, and running out the clock instead of objective, another point that was neglected however people just claim vaga bitching, not surprising, even though it's the rule to do objectives)

And another funny point, is that people claim counter-class yet still agree and prove the point that the way it is currently in place, it is easy to exploit to your advantage. You all are proving it by getting highly defensive instead of offering potential regulation to minimize exploiting. That's what you're supposed to do right? Analyze with critical thinking and deciding what can help everyone enjoy the server more, and not just the few who have high lvl classes to face/roll with *nudge nudge, wink wink*

Everyone knows a smart vaga can put down an entire team, and can be out of range of all their specials. I have been on crackhouse flying around rooftop just picking people off (which most other classes can't get to certain locations, yeah human teleport but it has long cool down and I always headshot the shit out of those sitting ducks when the first appear on roof)

And we all know a vaga can still kick ass with no-scope running through halls as well.

And again people claim vaga bitching. I enjoy the class... That's how I KNOW it's slightly more cheap, you guys do too, so don't pretend. And it is that reason it scares off other people. My whole point, is that cheap classes in particular is what keeps the server low populated.. Ergo, reinforces my point that ZM on average has an overall consistent gameplay that attracts most players because exploiting is limited and doesn't require leveling to get a fair shake at combat.

Again, you vagalovebirds are missing the point. When you use maps that gives an advantage to the class, it discourages other people to level because they can't get you (because they haven't leveled the classes to counter them) All the other classes you can see coming a mile away and is personally not an issue for me. So I am not bitching, I am pointing out a flaw you all clearly see for OTHER players, yet somehow have the balls to retort with such half-assery, and aggressive position that just further proves my point. It's weird logic if you ask me, blinded and stuck in the vaga love goggles I guess.

Now let's say they reduced how much exp it takes for a good majority for the earlier classes, and scale down other exp for others ahead slightly, that could encourage more intense gameplay. Or even increase the cooldown on vaga invisibility to around 2.5 seconds, the 0 cooldown is what makes it slightly op, done the right way you can escape or avoid any and every confrontation.

But then again we wouldn't want to even the playing field would we? And again, like I said, its the same few guys with the same maxed classes (myself included). That run around in circles scaring off a lot of people. I know this because I have done it before (And you guys probably have done it once or twice too)

So stop focusing like a typical fanboys would do and pay attention to the full scale of the criticism.

But you guys can resort to claiming everyone is just qqing. It's like the federal government... The system broke but we don't need to fix it! It works well "enough" for the people on the inside crowd and everyone else is just tough titties.

And again, you all proving my point that it does need to have a few tweeks. Considering in a lot of these maps you can teleport to a spawn under 15 seconds (which vaga players always qq about "are you allowed to ward your own spawn under 20 seconds???!!! I want to get freekillz plz!!")

I have been on cbble and got from t side to ct side in a bit under 10 seconds, taking pot shots at people changing class sets.

And again, please read and actually form a non bias constructive criticism on how to improve gameplay, or explain how that it is truly balanced scaling. Instead of just giving the typical response of: You just mad, we acknowledge the server is less popular but let's ignore the issue as to why!

It's funny, we all know that "vaga bitching" is a thing, so obviously it is just ONE of the classes that should be put under the microscope, in additon to test balancing on other classes listed.

Zombie Mod gets tweeked all the time for balancing. And rules are made for certain maps to improve gameplay, that is common practice. This is how you KNOW when someone is just being a fanboy for their cheap classes at that point when you auto declare "bitching"

I am sure all the players for CoD were "bitching" too about multiplayer scaling and zombie scaling. But hey, the developers actually took the time to take in the information and improved gameplay patch by patch.

What happened to the days of Ibis having critical thinkers? Did you all burn out? Our just been turned into run and gun rage mode internet bullies like CoD has? When I was admin we actually had a basic respect for people before resorting that the individual is just "bitching". Maybe the overall average level of users with higher education has dwindled, guess that also explains the limited vocabulary and going straight for the "bitching" card, that's the easy way out, not surprising either.

Ibis has lost so much respect since I have left, and I can see why. Seems like some leashes need to be reigned in before their head explodes from breathing, and thinking at the same time.very detailed, and agreed upon by many. i do enjoy attempting to kill a vega that knives. But not for an entire map. Tele's for scout vega's should be limited. and as for IBIS admins there are some very nice 1's. As for others
not so much and a few grammar nazi's that think they are better than you because you do not use correct punctuation. Like when did that become a thing, and when it did way to conform to
mainstream bullshit lmao. as for the few that do criticize others for incorrect punctuation and not spelling a complete word (even tho you do understand and comprehend what is being said). You are not
impressing anyone by saying oh you typed u instead of you. it just shows that your a picky asshole

[acolyte_to_jippity]

the proper grammer becomes a thing when we're unable to read what you post due to how fucked up it is. and no, it does not show that we are picky assholes, it shows that we want you to type like a regular fucking person, not some sort of side-drooling retard.

[† ØblivioΩ †]

Pretty much what Brett said. I've got to say that I'm very impressed how derailed this thread has become.

P.S. Oblivion, I'd highly recommend asking all highest ranked and/or best players what race is generally considered to be the strongest. As far as I'm aware, it's almost unanimous consent that human is the strongest single player race whereas nebula has the highest utility and brings the most total value to the team. Yes, vagabond and vagalion along with others mentioned do bring very strong presence and high team destruction potential, but they are countered much easier than the aforementioned races (I.E. nebula/human).

P.P.S. If you know how to counter all of those races so well and if you're such an expert, if you don't mind, explain how you are with 0.77 kdr? Granted, that is a very subjective and skewed ratio and can be deceptive quite a bit (especially on the high end of the table) that still is an extremely low ratio. There are big differences between players who don't know how to use the race and people who actually know how to play it. I'll use a nebula, human and vagabond as an example:

Even the very worst players normally still end up positive on maxed human - and that's not due to their skill, but only due to the race.

People who are bad at nebula tend to do much worse as there's a slightly higher skill cap, but it's still really easy to and most people will end positive with a nebula even if they are not good.

People who can't control vagabond due their skill limit or experience a lot of times even have a negative kdr. Yes, best players do have immense control over the map as they can scout and pick off targets, but overall they will not be the main driving power barring few specific maps (I do agree that maps such as de_port, de_compound and few others are very, very skewed towards vagas).

One of my point's was that vagabond is not the only cheap class; I specified it was just one example. And said in general in combination with certain maps, exploitation occurs frequently, such as port, etc.

My kdr is only 0.77 because I chose to deathgrind my way through tomes and playing non cheap-classes, not to mention I learned their weaknesses and strengths through experience (I think walkthroughs and guides are for noobs). Once I obtained the other classes, I picked up my kdr a little, but generally avoided human and other mentioned classes once I leveled them. As soon as I discovered just how easy it was with the other classes, I went back to zombie mod and didn't come back. (Not to mention my mac wasn't running the zombie server until I manually had to correct coding for it to run)

When I do play, I mostly only play flame pred. Even if I know most classes will counter me, I like the challenge and it's more fun (hence more deaths, I don't care about kdr).
On a side note, people with higher kdr generally play the cheaper classes to maintain their stats (as mentioned earlier with stat hoarding/team stacking/spectate swappers)

But again as mentioned. I recommended exp scaling so that future players can obtain some earlier classes, because other people had complaints about the overall gameplay. Again I was voicing out what people had issues with, we all know veterans know what classes to use for what, but new people to the server can't experiment to find out. If they never get the CHANCE to level (they don't come to forums to read WCS guide, etc. and get killed with 10 second rush)

Another possible solution would be just to increase time handicap at start of round to use teleport/flight
Nebula could have limited invisibility near the cloud he creates (max can run straight down a hall waaaay far from cloud with complete invis and just lol through office)

And that is what my point was, exploits + maps + class = One hell of an annoying grind from 0-220+
A little more tweeking and experimentation couldn't hurt

When you finally do get a vaga (or santa, etc) and get excited, then you discover everyone leaves when you play those too long.

[maynard]

dude, just cause you suck at WCS, doesn't mean we're going 2 change it lol. Every situation can be countered if you know what you're doing, and if you're quick and understand a vega's movements, they're easy as fuck 2 shoot down.

now stop spamming this guys intro with how you suck at WCS, no one cares.

[† ØblivioΩ †]

dude, just cause you suck at WCS, doesn't mean we're going 2 change it lol. Every situation can be countered if you know what you're doing, and if you're quick and understand a vega's movements, they're easy as fuck 2 shoot down.

now stop spamming this guys intro with how you suck at WCS, no one cares.

People don't like to read do they?

[Erdenay]

One of my point's was that vagabond is not the only cheap class; I specified it was just one example. And said in general in combination with certain maps, exploitation occurs frequently, such as port, etc.

My kdr is only 0.77 because I chose to deathgrind my way through tomes and playing non cheap-classes, not to mention I learned their weaknesses and strengths through experience (I think walkthroughs and guides are for noobs). Once I obtained the other classes, I picked up my kdr a little, but generally avoided human and other mentioned classes once I leveled them. As soon as I discovered just how easy it was with the other classes, I went back to zombie mod and didn't come back. (Not to mention my mac wasn't running the zombie server until I manually had to correct coding for it to run)

When I do play, I mostly only play flame pred. Even if I know most classes will counter me, I like the challenge and it's more fun (hence more deaths, I don't care about kdr).
On a side note, people with higher kdr generally play the cheaper classes to maintain their stats (as mentioned earlier with stat hoarding/team stacking/spectate swappers)

But again as mentioned. I recommended exp scaling so that future players can obtain some earlier classes, because other people had complaints about the overall gameplay. Again I was voicing out what people had issues with, we all know veterans know what classes to use for what, but new people to the server can't experiment to find out. If they never get the CHANCE to level (they don't come to forums to read WCS guide, etc. and get killed with 10 second rush)

Another possible solution would be just to increase time handicap at start of round to use teleport/flight
Nebula could have limited invisibility near the cloud he creates (max can run straight down a hall waaaay far from cloud with complete invis and just lol through office)

And that is what my point was, exploits + maps + class = One hell of an annoying grind from 0-220+
A little more tweeking and experimentation couldn't hurt

When you finally do get a vaga (or santa, etc) and get excited, then you discover everyone leaves when you play those too long.

My point is that whereas there are some "cheap" or "OP" classes, the balance itself in the server is actually quite good. Obviously, a person who has just joined will be at a disadvantage, but this is true for any RP game or server (low levels being ganked by high levels for fun). WCS allows you to access some very strong races at the very beginning (Human being the overall best class, IMO) and while people may suffer and they do, the problem is not really in the balance - there are a few members in our WCS community that do intentionally attempt to make the playground not even, but this is a very difficult problem to solve with equity and efficiency. What this means is that most of the changes you are proposing really wouldn't work - it would just change the type of some of the people abuse the system.

I think WCS has a lot to do with motivation and determination - if you are willing to put in some effort, you'll be able to reap very high rewards. If you don't... Well, there are always other *cough* *cough* alternatives. Anyways, I'm actually derailing the topic myself, so I'd say if you want to continue this, there should either be a separate thread or private conversations. I do advise, however, to actually stay and experience the IBIS community a bit more deeply as a lot of subtleties, opportunities and ways to actually accomplish something will be missed unless you do it properly.

[Clip]

the proper grammer becomes a thing when we're unable to read what you post due to how fucked up it is. and no, it does not show that we are picky assholes, it shows that we want you to type like a regular fucking person, not some sort of side-drooling retard.lol ok then get an example of a mssg that fucked up? By the way I stated that in my original post. And please watch what you say about those who are not as gifted as most just saying.(have a heart) it is kinda offensive saying someone with mental incapabilities/shortcomings isnt a regular person.

[brett friggin favre]

lol ok then get an example of a mssg that fucked up? By the way I stated that in my original post. And please watch what you say about those who are not as gifted as most just saying.(have a heart) it is kinda offensive saying someone with mental incapabilities/shortcomings isnt a regular person.

but...they're not regular. it's a fact. first we couldn't call them retarded, now we can't call them irregular?

[Clip]

but...they're not regular. it's a fact. first we couldn't call them retarded, now we can't call them irregular? you did say side-drooling retard. And yes that is offensive. But that aside by you saying we cant call them irregular seems very degrading to the less fortunate. All because you believe it is fact doesnt make it right. Please define regular in regards to the human population as a whole. There is no regular. But its all good just please call some one a dumbass as an insult instead of a insensitive term. I would appreciate it

[brett friggin favre]

you did say side-drooling retard. And yes that is offensive. But that aside by you saying we cant call them irregular seems very degrading to the less fortunate. All because you believe it is fact doesnt make it right. Please define regular in regards to the human population as a whole. There is no regular. But its all good just please call some one a dumbass as an insult instead of a insensitive term. I would appreciate it

firstly check who said what, you side-drooling retard. second, if i do say something offensive to one person (such as calling someone a side-drooling retard),i mean it to that one person (you)...not to a whole group of people. thirdly, if you're gonna argue that people with genetic abnormalities are "regular" just cuz it sounds politically correct or something, then you can suck my dick because you're spitting in the face of science. they are DIFFERENT. it is literally proven by science.

[What]

you did say side-drooling retard. And yes that is offensive. But that aside by you saying we cant call them irregular seems very degrading to the less fortunate. All because you believe it is fact doesnt make it right. Please define regular in regards to the human population as a whole. There is no regular. But its all good just please call some one a dumbass as an insult instead of a insensitive term. I would appreciate it

Well it is the internet, something not well known for being overly PC. Of course no one uses those terms when referring to those who are handicapped or otherwise challenged, that would be a complete prick move. I can understand you may be sensitive to such terminology and its fully within your rights to be so, but just remember there is a difference between a statement intended to be over the top or hyperbolic and something which is filled with vitriol and hate. While you may feel it simply promulgates issues with such words, freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. You can't start taking things off the table without then having to satisfy everyone who may have issues with certain words.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i'm going to point out, that CALLING someone something doesn't necessarily imply that they are being insulted. the fact that you think being a side-drooling retard is an insult...well that speaks alot about you doesn't it?

[Clip]

firstly check who said what, you side-drooling retard. second, if i do say something offensive to one person (such as calling someone a side-drooling retard),i mean it to that one person (you)...not to a whole group of people. thirdly, if you're gonna argue that people with genetic abnormalities are "regular" just cuz it sounds politically correct or something, then you can suck my dick because you're spitting in the face of science. they are DIFFERENT. it is literally proven by science.lol im not going to have a dick. Swinging competition over this matter. Karma is a bitch. And by the logic you just presented proves nothing there is no fucking normal. Was I even talking as if I was attacking you? Or was i more of stating an opinion the fact you resort to petty attempts to I guess label someone an offensive term such as *SIDE DROOLI NG RETARD* is sad son I hope you too will know the pain someday (not everyone deserves the life they where given). Lastly find me the definition of human populas and where the fuck normal falls into the catagory. Reply if you really wish to. As for me im off this matter. Gf on any rebuttal attempt for I will not be viewing it.

---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------


i'm going to point out, that CALLING someone something doesn't necessarily imply that they are being insulted. the fact that you think being a side-drooling retard is an insult...well that speaks alot about you doesn't it?that makes no since but ok son you got your post. Proud?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

lol im not going to have a dick.


ahh, a female. explains alot.




that makes no since but ok son you got your post. Proud?

alrightl, i'm going to try and explain it a bit better, hopefully more on your level. I was not the one who insulted retarded people. You are the one, who decided that being called retarded was an insult. Therefore, it is YOU who is being insulting. YOU are the one who took offence, and that shows all of us what you think of retarded people. obviously, you view being retarded as a negative thing.

[brett friggin favre]

lol im not going to have a dick. Swinging competition over this matter. Karma is a bitch. And by the logic you just presented proves nothing there is no fucking normal. Was I even talking as if I was attacking you? Or was i more of stating an opinion the fact you resort to petty attempts to I guess label someone an offensive term such as *SIDE DROOLI NG RETARD* is sad son I hope you too will know the pain someday (not everyone deserves the life they where given). Lastly find me the definition of human populas and where the fuck normal falls into the catagory. Reply if you really wish to. As for me im off this matter. Gf on any rebuttal attempt for I will not be viewing it.

---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------

that makes no since but ok son you got your post. Proud?

jesus christ you're a fucking moron. if there's no regular then calling someone irregular is the same as calling them regular...those two terms are relative, so if one doesn't exist then neither does the other. and regardless of alllllll that, at what point have i offended anyone but you? and you say aco's post makes no "since" but at least he has a fucking elementary grasp of the english language, which a side-drooling retard like yourself clearly can't even begin to comprehend.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

and you say aco's post makes no "since" but at least he has a fucking elementary grasp of the english language,

...thank you?

[maynard]

lmfao

[What]

Well damn guys. He was clearly hinting at, and then explicitly said that this topic hits close to home for him. While he can't stop anyone from using the language he finds offensive, there is no reason to be outright dicks to him and keep throwing it in his face, especially on his own intro thread.

[Carmichal]

welcome to ibis capotal of misplaced anger. lol

[Chikun]

welcome to ibis capotal of misplaced anger. lol

Fuck you and your grammer. My dick is huge. I don't have anger issues you dirty hippy nor is it misplaced.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

welcome to ibis capotal of misplaced anger. lol

*capital (or capitol, fuck if i care which)