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Goku
09-04-2013, 07:15 PM
UPDATE: I'm pulling the map suggestion. This thread can be deleted.

CYBER
09-05-2013, 04:20 AM
First of all, this was partially Cyber's idea. This is Hang Em High redone, retextured and more specified for wcs gameplay. There are ramps and cover spots added so you can climb higher in the map. I've recreated and added some teleporters. I have turned it into a bomb/defuse map and removed all weapon pickups in place of actual buy zones. I think people will like this.

Give it a test run and try your best to give constructive criticism if you would. Please.
Even if you don't like it tell me what you DO like so I can keep it in mind. Thanks.


Here's the download link with screenshots:
http://css.gamebanana.com/maps/176256

WOOT! about time you finalize those bridges and platforms we talked about.

Tried it locally, loving it.

I got concerned about the bombsites' proximities to spawn areas, but then again, dolls and de_crack and others have similarly close bombsites, but at least THIS map has fast access points to non flyers and teleporters for defusing and planting (unlike dolls' impossible walking path to go for defuse..

ZERO ! ADD THIs i wanna play it naw! <3

---------- Post added at 05:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 AM ----------

ps: Glad you liked my idea to turn hangem to a wcs map to begin with, along with the suggestions and modifiers i pitched in.

love the textures, u can be agressive and rushing in it, or fall back immediately for cover, feels like it might have an amazing and somewhat fast gameplay at all server sizes.

brett friggin favre
09-05-2013, 09:33 AM
another dolls? now i can see why cyber wants this...

CYBER
09-05-2013, 11:01 AM
another dolls? now i can see why cyber wants this...
not like dolls at all... in this map, non vagas, non flyers and non humanwhores are able to play this map at the same pace of speed and coverage.

also, how many maps do we really play on the server anyway? (no im not talking about the "once a week maps")
aztec
crackhouses
dolls
italies
cbble
offices
dust 1 2 (all crappy 17 thousand versions of them)
the T sided assaults?
broken westwood?
nipper everynow and then?
...
all these at a 24/7 rotation.
am i missing something?

that's a whooooole lot of selection right?
so yeah, of that shitty selection of maps we constantly play, forgive me if i dont mind playing dolls every now and then,
and thinking of turning a huge "gg" map to a decent-sized wcs map...

so again, do you mind telling me what is god awful about this "dolls alternative" that you're calling? i'd love to get the gd criticism so that i can incorporate those in my next design idea im pitching soon...

Blackmage
09-05-2013, 12:10 PM
Would really need to see it in action, but here's my view from just the empty map.

This is like our rats maps in the objective is able to be covered from almost anywhere on the map. At the very least, I would have liked one of the bomb sites to have some cover, similar to westwood. As it is, it's just a sniper's wetdream, eg: Dolls.

On this map, vaga will take off to the roof, and it's going to be a race, can he pick off the other team, or will they manage to take him out first. Walking races have cover from spawn kills, but when the vagas and humans are in the rafters in the first seconds... At least dolls and deathcookin let people who want to play blood mage or crypt lord let the enemies come to them.

Also: walking off the upper ledge, onto the T bomb site deals 104 damage.

brett friggin favre
09-05-2013, 12:49 PM
Would really need to see it in action, but here's my view from just the empty map.

This is like our rats maps in the objective is able to be covered from almost anywhere on the map. At the very least, I would have liked one of the bomb sites to have some cover, similar to westwood. As it is, it's just a sniper's wetdream, eg: Dolls.

On this map, vaga will take off to the roof, and it's going to be a race, can he pick off the other team, or will they manage to take him out first. Walking races have cover from spawn kills, but when the vagas and humans are in the rafters in the first seconds... At least dolls and deathcookin let people who want to play blood mage or crypt lord let the enemies come to them.

Also: walking off the upper ledge, onto the T bomb site deals 104 damage.

just tested. this. insta vaga plant and then the site is wiiiide ass open and easy as shit to cover. conversely, if t's don't have a vaga, ct's can defend the bomb sites so easily because they have virtually no cover.

this map NEEEEEDS at least one site with roof cover. without it, being this wide open, it's impossible to balance.

the tele up to the rafters is nice, gives some other races a fighting chance, gives them cover from vagas and a view of the objective. still, an opposing vaga can just line up a shot into the covered areas real quick and take out anyone in there, and it becomes a deathtrap.

CYBER
09-05-2013, 03:50 PM
just tested. this. insta vaga plant and then the site is wiiiide ass open and easy as shit to cover. conversely, if t's don't have a vaga, ct's can defend the bomb sites so easily because they have virtually no cover.this map NEEEEEDS at least one site with roof cover. without it, being this wide open, it's impossible to balance. the tele up to the rafters is nice, gives some other races a fighting chance, gives them cover from vagas and a view of the objective. still, an opposing vaga can just line up a shot into the covered areas real quick and take out anyone in there, and it becomes a deathtrap.
see?
THIS is gd criticism from both of u. In fact, chris and i had the same argument about having one of the bombsites being un the side house.

But now i have an even better for one of the bombsites... That is, if we keep TWO bombsites (i might suggest scrapping one of them and only keep the ct-sided one, with a decent idea for covering it).


--- are there any other things you guys might want to suggest before i take this to Mr Mapster?:p it's better to do all fixes at once before zero shows up to add or reject it!:)

---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------

As for the edge-walking to bombsite dmg, im not sure it was meant to be jumped lol... I think we made 1 site easily accessible from top with floating ramp, and 1 from bottom with side ramps to accomodate all race types... But clearly the biggest issue is not the race gameplay and coverage as opposed to SPECICALY the bombsite vs vaga rush-planting/protecting

What
09-05-2013, 05:44 PM
If it turns into another rats home studio or rats crapper, then its gonna be a shitty map, but as I have not played the original and do not know how he has made it worse, I can't not have any real objections at this point other than to say, whenever he feels he makes a map good for wcs he means removing ceilings and making it way to easy for flyers and spideys, which is why everyone hates maps like inferno pro or future aztec, cause flyers get from point a to point b way to fucking fast.

Blackmage
09-05-2013, 07:10 PM
The two "elevator" Teleporters: When I enter with speed, I keep getting teleported back and forth. It throws me backward when I go through those pairs. The other set of portals seems to work fine.

When playing 10v10 spawn points are such that spawn killing will happen a lot.

The accessing the site thing was just an observation, you can jump to the ramp thingy and only take about 90. With all the sloped surfaces we get, fall damage is going to be inconsistent anyway.

Also, this is opinion, I prefer 2 objective sites, for bomb maps especially. Single site often becomes more of a deathmatch than plant/defuse.

Erdenay
09-05-2013, 07:34 PM
I dislike it - and it's hard for me since I know there was a lot of work put in here.

Honestly, strictly WCS maps should be done very differently as this map will just encourage further whoring of races that are whored (and some are unlimited) - a good spiderfag/human map where you don't even have that much skill to be successful along with another map where vagas run rampant (Not as bad as Port, but still bad).

Furthermore, the layout of this map encourages camping and will punish races that don't have either mobility or invisibility as they'll be left in open as easy targets and most likely die very quickly. As we're already losing people, this map would also be a very bad experience as they would get raped and would most likely blame balance. I won't go as far as to say that this is as bad as port or crackhouse, but it's not far off.

In a way, this also reminds me off the infamous battleship as flying races and ESPECIALLY Santa will also be an absolute nuisance since it's fairly easy to maneuver around and pick people off when they can do next to nothing against you.

All in all, I would vote definitely no to this map. I really do appreciate the work from both of you, but I think it'd be spent better if you'd work on something else.

Goku
09-08-2013, 04:09 PM
Word. The critiques are all fair, though I did add some cover for non-flying races. Not to mention the teleporters help them move quickly, too.

I agree: having better cover right on the bomb sites is a good idea, so I'll chip away at some sensible tweaks. All I can say about spiderman and human is that if you miss your mark it could hurt you. There's enough space to kill anyone from a fall, so there's that to consider. All in all; thanks for the feedback and for not sounding bitchy about it. This helps me get better at this sort of thing. :)

I'll update when I get a better version done. Thanks!

CYBER
09-09-2013, 12:14 AM
Word. The critiques are all fair, though I did add some cover for non-flying races. Not to mention the teleporters help them move quickly, too.

I agree: having better cover right on the bomb sites is a good idea, so I'll chip away at some sensible tweaks. All I can say about spiderman and human is that if you miss your mark it could hurt you. There's enough space to kill anyone from a fall, so there's that to consider. All in all; thanks for the feedback and for not sounding bitchy about it. This helps me get better at this sort of thing. :)

I'll update when I get a better version done. Thanks!

i think i might have an idea that might let us keep 2 bombsites and allows us add more cover against flying races.

Goku
09-11-2013, 11:29 PM
No one here seems into the idea that someone wants to make decent, custom maps for this server.

Most of you reject these ideas. Considering the maps that have been uploaded; this makes no sense whatsoever. Sad thing is I am making (or remaking) maps that are winding up better than 90% of the maps on the server (at the very least they are being made properly... nevermind preference) and I see 100 reasons that people don't like it, though shit maps get added on the regular without even being tested. I don't have the time to put this effort in and watch everyone shoot it down before they even give it a chance. I really could care less if you want to troll me to get a reaction because you don't have any sense of respect, so flame away, since that's all you'll contribute. Not everyone, just a handful of you that everyone else will backup, anyway, so what is the difference, really?

I'd like my map suggestions all disregarded. I'd like to keep them for myself. Sorry if all you get out of this is "what a baby", but I have a life outside of video games. I'd like to stop wasting precious time. It'd be more worth it if more than just Cyber appreciated my efforts. He's the only one who's given positive feedback or helped with ideas thus far.

If you guys really want some maps please feel free to ask but I'm not offering them up on my own accord any more.

Thanks.

acolyte_to_jippity
09-11-2013, 11:37 PM
Sad thing is I am making (or remaking) maps that are winding up better than 90% of the maps on the server

that is subjective as all fuck...

Goku
09-11-2013, 11:43 PM
(at the very least they are being made properly... nevermind preference)

People see and hear whatever they choose to. You're one of them. Grats.

acolyte_to_jippity
09-11-2013, 11:49 PM
(at the very least they are being made properly... nevermind preference)

People see and hear whatever they choose to. You're one of them. Grats.

but once again, the issue is that YOU are the one deciding the maps we have are poorly made. sure, some of them are trash. but others that you've gone out of your way to "fix" are not flawed at all. i think that instead of trying to push your own opinions about the current maps on people, you should go and try to find out what kind of maps people would like.

personally i have always loved de_nightfever. the only map we have that is similar in theme is vegas. i think a nightfever-esque map might be interesting, one that doesn't focus around 3 main areas for fighting (stairwell, rear courtyard/balcony, parking garage) and instead is more cqc/corridor fighting.

but again, that's just me.

CYBER
01-06-2014, 04:51 AM
bump! we need more maps! and i want to see this one in action !

What
01-06-2014, 09:56 AM
bump! we need more maps! and i want to see this one in action !

It was a bad idea and a horrifically made map by someone who doesn't understand what makes certain maps, like inferno fog, port, Aztec future, shitty as hell. There is a reason he pulled the suggestion, since this one was more egregious than his other ideas, refer to the first post Cybie.

kionay
01-06-2014, 12:30 PM
...inferno fog, port, Aztec future, shitty as hell.

I like port :(

CYBER
01-06-2014, 09:46 PM
I like port :(
Not helping my case, kionay!:p

What
01-07-2014, 12:21 AM
This is all you need to understand what kionay brings to the table:

http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/11423-rong-guy

CYBER
01-07-2014, 01:52 PM
This is all you need to understand what kionay brings to the table:

http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/11423-rong-guy


out of curiosity, What.
Since you seem to know an awful fucking lot about good and bad maps.
mind throwing me a map idea, or quick sketch that might be of use for future wcs mapping?



also, whether people like you like the map or not, I really think we should give it a chance on the servers, let people RTV off of it , or not play it by CHOICE rather than completely denying it at the roots...
if the map proves to be bad, I'll be the first to post a Remove thread...

FFS we have maps like BLARGHH and ARGHH and rats_studio and 17 thousand versions of dust, dust2, italy, and office... and all the open skybox maps like port and compound etc..
can we at least TRY the map on the server to test in action so that I can see where it went wrong, IF it went wrong?
hell i'll be the first to test it on the tester server first... and request it to be removed if it's REALLY that aweful of a map.

What
01-07-2014, 02:06 PM
We have dozens of maps that are rtv'ed off of almost immediately as is. Those maps all of similar things in common, among them is that they are essentially broken for wcs since you can blitz spawns too quickly, or have only outdoor bombsites with no obstacles or passages preventing flyers or spiders from going to one or the other instantly.

A good map for wcs needs to allow for all races to have a shot and not be completely disadvantaged. All of the maps, this one in particular, made by Goku were designed to make it easier for flyers, vagas, and spidermans. Why? Because Goku sucks at the game and rather than learn how to control the races he wants to have maps that nullify their weaknesses. This is the guy who wanted to "fix" Italy, the most popular map on the server, so that spiders and vagas wouldn't get held up on textures and remove the ceiling for the flyers. That is batshit insane. You know as well as I do what people complain about, and its not about vagas and spiders being to difficult to play.

A good map has a nice mix of open and closed areas. It should not be possible to fly from one spawn to the other without having something to block or hinder your way. The number one thing is of course a ceiling and doorways/tunnels that prevent such actions. Any map that needs to be made more "open" will make the map shitty as fuck. Think of the open maps we have, like rats_homestudio or port, are immediately rtved since it sucks for anyone who isn't flying around the sky that an asshole. Dolls functions decently because there are plenty of hidden areas and closed pathways that allow travel without being completely exposed, still planting the bomb is very difficult for a non-flyer or teleporter, but since the site can be defend from multiple angles this problem is somewhat mitigated.