Increase nomination to 10

[Meltdown]

Ok off late we have the circle of lotro on the servers, wich is fine till a certain point. a couple of people keep nominating moria for example as soon as it is up. given how many times we play this map already I want to advice to increase the nomination of maps to 10, so when we play moria we got to play 10 other maps to be able to nominate this map again.

We have so many great maps and there not even given a chance because of the constant rotation of the same maps. If we never play these maps then they will never become great. Given the idea that zm is doing well and the population finnaly is catching up with learning the new maps, why not.

[sup]

It's not the nomination restriction that's the problem. It's the fact that it's reset when the server crashes, which is about every 2 hours.

[Meltdown]

It's not the nomination restriction that's the problem. It's the fact that it's reset when the server crashes, which is about every 2 hours.

I think it is 4/5 now atm, crashes are huge pain. but even without em i would like to play more maps. And the best of all would be without the use of a admin change, if people get to expand there knowledge of more maps, then maybe in the future we will have a bigger cycle.

[phil.™]

It's not even the crash, it's the popularity of the map. We can have 10 even 15 maps up for nomination, and if LOTR Mines of Moria is up there, people will vote for it. Just like GG, there's a TON of new maps we just added, but once someone see's a decently fun (comfortable map) on the nomination list, everyone will vote for that versus any other map.

Increase in numbers for the nomination won't do any good. Best thing I can tell you keep nominating the map you want, and went rtv or map vote comes up, tell everyone to spam so and so number.

[Meltdown]

It's not even the crash, it's the popularity of the map. We can have 10 even 15 maps up for nomination, and if LOTR Mines of Moria is up there, people will vote for it. Just like GG, there's a TON of new maps we just added, but once someone see's a decently fun (comfortable map) on the nomination list, everyone will vote for that versus any other map.

Increase in numbers for the nomination won't do any good. Best thing I can tell you keep nominating the map you want, and went rtv or map vote comes up, tell everyone to spam so and so number.

I'm not talking on the voting list, i'm talking about the moment a maps get free to being nominated again. And moria is one of the map that a select group really wanna play and the majority just goes along because that's how it goes (if you make a poll the majority always want something els). It isn't that the majority wants to keep replaying moria, the problem is it always ends up being on the list in less then 2 hours. And why won't do it any good to increase it.

[Carmichal]

i think this is a good idea. also can we do this in gungame?

[euronews]

well no one likes to see new things and try them because they enjoy the maps they know.. knowing where to go is the best thing but in new maps people are strangers and rtv them...

[Meltdown]

well no one likes to see new things and try them because they enjoy the maps they know.. knowing where to go is the best thing but in new maps people are strangers and rtv them...

That is not entirely true, not everyone likes that. and because the new maps are hardly being given a chance ofc no one will ever like them. This is always how it goes with new maps, I remember schroomforest being introduced, i wanted that map to the list. look at it now. And it also didn't got played much in the beginning.

If we all think that way euronews then lets make a cycle of 4 maps only then.

[What]

map vote had been borked on wcs for over a year, maps will randomly get nominated, including the map you are currently playing on meaning you can just continuously vote for the same damn map. The nomination thing only works if the computer follows the same rules, which it doesn't. People may not be able to manually nominate it, but if the server decides to have it as an option at anytime it will.

[Assassin]

If people nominate maps and then leave, the map gets un nominated. It's really not that hard of a system to figure out. If you nominate a map, and stay to play, it will appear on the list, along with 5 or so randomly generated maps (unless you have that many people nominating different maps, then it's just first come first serve). Having a bigger list won't do much as Phil has pointed out, people get the first comfortable map they see and spam it. That way they can have it off their screen, and back to staying alive/killing.

[Meltdown]

If people nominate maps and then leave, the map gets un nominated. It's really not that hard of a system to figure out. If you nominate a map, and stay to play, it will appear on the list, along with 5 or so randomly generated maps (unless you have that many people nominating different maps, then it's just first come first serve). Having a bigger list won't do much as Phil has pointed out, people get the first comfortable map they see and spam it. That way they can have it off their screen, and back to staying alive/killing.

Ok i think people confuse stuff with a bigger list and the thing i mean.

What i meant isn't a bigger list.


Example:

We play moria then the next map is:
Desperados then the map we play after this one is >
Beachstrike etc >
Voodoo etc >
Sorrento > around this time on the nomination list moria can be nominated again, what i want is that it is extended till after
map 5
map 6
map 7
map 8
map 9
map 10
map 11 > now moria should be able to be nominated again.

That is what i mean.

[What]

I understood you melty, my point, and I think Philip's as well, is that the server will "randomly" select maps to flush out the map vote list, so even if the map can not be manually nominated, it may still appear on the list sooner than the current 3 map system.

[Meltdown]

I understood you melty, my point, and I think Philip's as well, is that the server will "randomly" select maps to flush out the map vote list, so even if the map can not be manually nominated, it may still appear on the list sooner than the current 3 map system.

Yeah i thought of that aswel, but zero is the man who can work miracle's with system i hope.

In the past we didn't had as many maps so the system was alright, but the more maps we get the bigger the cycle needs to become, otherwise it will keep repeating itself in the way of 2 years ago.

[What]

I know zero can fix it, I just think he has other things on the burner, I know I made a thread about the map votes in wcs months ago.

[sup]

Maybe if they didn't add so many completely bad maps to the server rotation, people would be less wary about trying a "new" one (for some of us who have been playing ZM/ZE a long time and on many different servers, we've already had a chance to play most of them anyway). A little quality control would go a long way here. I mean, if I see a ZM map I don't recognize on the nomination list, for example, I'm going to assume it's some stupid piece of shit that somebody threw together in an hour, with bad or nonexistent cade spots and a completely retarded layout. And 99% of the time, I'll be right with that assumption.

[Milkster]

Generally the rule of thumb goes, if the server sucks at a certain map or players are completely retarded on the map they vote the map down when infact the quality of the map is brilliant it's the players who play the map.

You can educate pork, ladies and gentlemen.

[Meltdown]

I was wondering if anyone as thought this over yet, I think this will be great to implant now as we got so many maps, and i have seen it to many times the same maps get nominated in a to short amount of time now in the last couple of weeks.

[$Money$]

Ok i think people confuse stuff with a bigger list and the thing i mean.

What i meant isn't a bigger list.


Example:

We play moria then the next map is:
Desperados then the map we play after this one is >
Beachstrike etc >
Voodoo etc >
Sorrento > around this time on the nomination list moria can be nominated again, what i want is that it is extended till after
map 5
map 6
map 7
map 8
map 9
map 10
map 11 > now moria should be able to be nominated again.

That is what i mean.

Yea it would be nice not to see LOTR or Voodoo for 2 hours lol

[Pierogi]

I think this is very gut idea and I support it all the way. But don't you think it would take something more clever to discourage people from playing the same maps over and over?

[$Money$]

I think this is very gut idea and I support it all the way. But don't you think it would take something more clever to discourage people from playing the same maps over and over?

they would vote for the same map but instead playing that map once every 90 mins, you would play it once every 180 mins. So you would get more maps in before you play VOODOO for the 100th time that day!

[Pierogi]

they would vote for the same map but instead playing that map once every 90 mins, you would play it once every 180 mins. So you would get more maps in before you play VOODOO for the 100th time that day!

Thank you
And thank you for reminding me how bad I am at expressing myself.

What I wanted to say is this: Since players keep on choosing the same maps over and over, lets come up with some kind of clever idea to encourage them to play less popular maps.

You see, even if we increase the limit from 5 to 10 the cycle will look something like: voodoo, beachstrike, shroomforest, desert_fortress, icecap, lotr, lotr, sorrento, atix, voodoo etc..

[$Money$]

Thank you
And thank you for reminding me how bad I am at expressing myself.

What I wanted to say is this: Since players keep on choosing the same maps over and over, lets come up with some kind of clever idea to encourage them to play less popular maps.

You see, even if we increase the limit from 5 to 10 the cycle will look something like: voodoo, beachstrike, shroomforest, desert_fortress, icecap, lotr, lotr, sorrento, atix, voodoo etc..

I understand what your saying. Your right, we would play the 10 shitty maps over and over and by the time the first map was back up for nominate it would be the same maps again. I know when we play late at night, me and 3 other admins we never play those maps. We try to play either the old maps that don't get action or the new ones. Get on late at night, see what ya think.

[kionay]

well one idea would be to use the past X number of maps to skew what maps can be nominated/voted for

for example, in the last 100 maps if voodoo has been played 20% of the time then make it 20% less likely to be added to the list

the more it gets played the less it can be played, the less it gets played the more it can be played

in theory this should even out the maps distribution

1st map, map1, vote for anything but the map you're on, so i guess map1@100% chance to not appear (to be excluded)
2nd map, map2, map1@50%, 50/50 for map1 to appear, say it doesn't
3rd map, map3, map1@33%, map2@33%, map3@33% 2/3rd chance for all 3 choices, say map 1 appears and is voted for
4th map, map1, map1@50%, map2@25%, map3@25%, 50/50 for map 1, 3/4 for other 2
5th map, map4, map1@40%, map2@20%, map3@20%, map4@20%, say map 2 appears and is voted for
6th map, map2, map1@33%, map2@33%, map3@16%, map4@16%, say map 4 appears and is voted for
7th map, map4, map1@29%, map2@29%, map3@14%, map4@29%, say miraculously map1 appears and is voted for
8th map, map1, map1@38%, map2@25%, map3@13%, map4@25%, say map 3 and 1 (somehow) appears, 1 is more popular and gets voted for
9th map, map1, map1@44%, map2@22%, map3@11%, map4@22%, map 3 still appears, but is unpopular, so a new map is voted for
10th map, map5, map1@40%, map2@20%, map3@10%, map4@20%, map5@10%, map5 turns out to be popular and gets voted for the next 3 times
11th map, map5, map1@36%, map2@18%, map3@9%, map4@18%, map5@18%
12th map, map5, map1@33%, map2@17%, map3@8%, map4@17%, map5@25%
13th map, map5, map1@31%, map2@15%, map3@7%, map4@15%, map5@31%, maps 2 3 and 4 aren't excluded, nobody likes 3, they vote for 2
14th map, map2, map1@29%, map2@21%, map3@7%, map4@14%, map5@29% 1 3 and 4 show, but since nobody likes 3 and love 1 so vote 1
15th map, map1, map1@33%, map2@20%, map3@7%, map4@13%, map5@27%

map 1 is played 5 times (33%)
map 5 is played 4 times (27%)
map 2 is played 3 times (20%)
map 4 is played 2 times (13%)
map 3 is played 1 time (07%)


at first glance these numbers seem to show that this model won't help map rotation, but if we skew these so that maps are harder to play consecutively (default add 80% increase to percentage, decrease this number for each map based on the number of maps since that map was last played)

NumPl = Number of Times map is played
NumTo = Number of Maps that have been played thus far total
NumLa = Number of Maps since map has been last played (current map = 0, previous map = 1...) (current map the deviation of 80% is ignored because we can't devide by 0, and we're currently playing the map so it should be impossible to play it again right away unless they want it extended)

map% = NumPl/NumTo + (80/NumLa)

1st map, map1, vote for anything but the map you're on, so i guess map1@100% chance to not appear (to be excluded)
2nd map, map2, map1@50% + (80/1)% = 90.0%, 1/10 for map1 to appear, say it doesn't
3rd map, map3, map1@33% + (80/2)% = 46.2%, map2@ 33% + (80 * [1/1])% = 59.4%, map3@100%

you can see after 3 maps it's no longer 33% across the board, the numbers are skewed in the favor of the map played longest ago

i'll post more tonight, maybe

but you get where this is going

this is just a thought... and some bad math, but mostly a thought :D

[What]

What if you make it over 9000?

[euronews]

im actually hated by most players because i dont allow that map rotation haha i always go for maps that arent overplayed

[$Money$]

im actually hated by most players because i dont allow that map rotation haha i always go for maps that arent overplayed

If your gonna do that then make a vote of the maps you want. So technically it wont be your fault, since they voted for it. :icon_mrgreen:

[Meltdown]

im actually hated by most players because i dont allow that map rotation haha i always go for maps that arent overplayed

It's not about what you do, it's about how you do it. There lies the difference.

[kionay]

What if you make it over 9000?


flush the old ones to keep the numbers managable?