Banning Striders

[What]

Can someone please tell newer admins that it is not ok to ban people flying around and knifing as strider. Both Deez and Predator have been subject to bans under "Exploiting" for this, when its just playing the damn race. The one excuse for banning Predator was that the fire trail disappeared while he was flying around, which no one has any control over. I have seen santas and dragonflys lose their particle trails for whatever reason but it seems that people are just getting banned due to frustration at not being able to kill them.

[Peppers]

If an admin is unable to kill somebody, they can't ban them?!

Haven't seen the striders get banned by an admin when I was online but have seen people in the server rage and they get vote banned lol. Is it new admins or just admins that haven't played wcs before?

[Old Bastard]

No admin is banning a player because they cant get kills. The reason Predator got banned for exploiting was due to strider trail BUT it was due to more than one admin agreeing to said ban. Also it seems that Predator is the only one who wouldn't have a trail on strider for whole rounds until he died.

[SCRIBBLE]

What was predator doing to make the trail disappear and did it seem to be done on purpose?

[phil.™]

Apparently purchasing cloak and surviving to next round can make the trails dunzo.

[Old Bastard]

That's the way it appears but I'm not so sure. There is the demo that I posted for Zero to see in the admin section. But I tried that and didn't work for me.

[What]

The problem is, as I have already posted in the Strider section, the trail not appearing is sometimes due to a glitch by the person watching the strider, not the strider itself. This is still happening and is similar to when you can see someones mic icon though they are not talking, or if they appear to be completely invisible to you. That is on the person looking, not the person who is seemingly doing it. If predator was intentionally glitching and had fair warning, then that is fine, but since the "trick" was apparently mashing up at spawn, which someone who is intending to zip around the map is going to do, it is possible he was not aware. Again, things glitch up a lot, and you need to make sure it is intentional by the player, and not just a simple to cause error that they are unaware of.


ps particle trail was added to strider a few weeks ago, there is going to be some growing pains, heck dragonfly used to crash the damn thing all the time.

[Old Bastard]

Well it was stated to Predator that his trail was not there by every player as well as admins. He was warned repeatedly and the only thing he had to say was it wasn't the cloak doing it. There was no I'm not glitching the trail or anything along those lines. He was fully aware the trail was not there and he blatantly disregarded what we were telling him. So my ban was justified, imo.

[What]

Well it was stated to Predator that his trail was not there by every player as well as admins. He was warned repeatedly and the only thing he had to say was it wasn't the cloak doing it. There was no I'm not glitching the trail or anything along those lines. He was fully aware the trail was not there and he blatantly disregarded what we were telling him. So my ban was justified, imo.

If he was causing it, the trail effect is a new addition if there was a glitch that was caused unknowingly by him then it doesn't seem to have been in order, a kick would have sufficed. I am not here to defend that jackass or deez cause the strider thing is the most annoying piece of shit I have seen in a while, but there is a difference between glitching and the mod having a glitch. I fear this sets a dangerous precedent for banning because something in the mod is not working correctly, which as stated above, can be a number of things.

Also, in general, not having the trail is actually better for the other team since they wont get blinded by the particle effect, not saying it is right, just a weird glitch for people to be complaining about.

[CYBER]

What was predator doing to make the trail disappear and did it seem to be done on purpose?

i know for a fact that ipredator (hypacunt) was intentionally glitching it (and didn't share how he did it on forums) at least 4 different times, one of which i was there for, and the rest passareli and others confirmed it to me, in order to gain a more invisible advantage. He especially used to do that late at night when there were no admins around to stop him, and had to be votebanned by regulars for him to stop being an exploiting cunt. Because he's an overall dirtbag cumguzzler that no one likes?


Can someone please tell newer admins that it is not ok to ban people flying around and knifing as strider. Both Deez and Predator have been subject to bans under "Exploiting" for this, when its just playing the damn race. The one excuse for banning Predator was that the fire trail disappeared while he was flying around, which no one has any control over. I have seen santas and dragonflys lose their particle trails for whatever reason but it seems that people are just getting banned due to frustration at not being able to kill them.
but yeah, i dont know about others, but if the trail on stryder disappears, can the admins please post the demo in the strider race section so zero can take a look at what caused the glitch and recreate it and hopefully fix it? and this way it can be easier to tell if someone is intentionally glitching :)

don't ban striders just for the sake of them being decent players.
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However, What. Is the "disappearing" trail only a first person (v_model) view glitch? i.e if u were dead and spectating a strider's first person view, the trail disappears sometimes THEN and ONLY then?
or does the ACTUAL trail disappear from the third person view, from the w_model , where as a LIVE enemy, you cannot see the strider trail?

if the former, i'd like to re-iterate to admins to not simply ban for that because it's a client glitch on your end. if the latter, post the demo please since it would confirm either intentional exploit, or random bug.


thanks for the post what.

[What]

However, What. Is the "disappearing" trail only a first person (v_model) view glitch? i.e if u were dead and spectating a strider's first person view, the trail disappears sometimes THEN and ONLY then?
or does the ACTUAL trail disappear from the third person view, from the w_model , where as a LIVE enemy, you cannot see the strider trail?

if the former, i'd like to re-iterate to admins to not simply ban for that because it's a client glitch on your end. if the latter, post the demo please since it would confirm either intentional exploit, or random bug.


thanks for the post what.

I don't know what a lot of those words meant, but what I mean is that when you are playing, you can look at say a santa or a strider, and the trail is not visible, ie no particles or flames are shooting out of the model's ass. This is a client side issue that is relatable to the mic icon glitch or a person being invisible on your end glitch, the type of thing that is not an intentional glitch and not even caused by the person it looks like its on. Mainly what I am worried about, with the new updates and now a new race (maybe?) is that there will be hiccups with things that might appear as though someone is glitching when they are not, so people just need to take a second before they ban for those reasons. Perhaps checking with other admins (preferably ULA) or having a thread in the admin thread of known or possible glitches that admins can be aware of and rightly ban for.

Also, isn't the process still warn, kick, ban? not warn, ban?

[SCRIBBLE]

warn, kick, ban? not warn, ban?

correct

[Old Bastard]

Cyber and Scribble, Zero is aware of the trail and I have tried multiple times to recreate the 'glitch' to no avail. Well at least not to where everyone could not see it. Only 1 or 2 here and there couldn't see my trail. But when Predator did it everyone was complaining about him not having a trail. I had also spoke with Phil on it. Anex was aware of the situation as well. But here is the link for you 2 so that y'all can see the map on which i banned him. http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/11792-Strider-Trail-Glitch

[Wolfenstinger]

FYI we can't venture into the admin thread as non-admins. So link to thread is silly unless we paid the $11. Just a heads up.

[Old Bastard]

Tis why my statement has Cyber and Scribble at front

[What]

The fact that you could not get it where everyone could not see it is exactly my point. As for everyone complaining about predator, yeah, they'll do that, same with deez. More about them getting knifed at light speed than than the trail, since no one can seem to hit him in either case. The trail probably just provided an easy excuse, especially if someone said something along the lines of that he could be banned for doing it. Both him and deez have been vote banned for being strider dicks, so it would not take much for people to jump on a convenient excuse.

[Old Bastard]

Although as you could see from what Zero fixed was the holding down flight at end of round while still alive and no releasing on start of next round allowed for trail to be gone. Therefore he was exploiting a glitch in the race which is still a banable offense.

[Wolfenstinger]

TBH Might as well ban all Santas/Dragonflys that are missing their trail. Panoramas that cause players to have a crooked screen when they come back to life.

These are current glitches/bugs that the user cannot exactly control OTHER THAN NOT PLAYING the race. The only race I recall ever being banned at the time to actually PLAY was Hells Demon, which back then, it had the capabilities to crash the server. I don't see a reason for banning anyone playing Strider for glitching the trail to disappear. Sure it was suppose to be there, but if they figured out a way to glitch it so it's not - it's like as if though Strider wasn't even updated. Unless the server was actually in danger because of this, Me (a standard WCS reg), sees nothing interfering standard gameplay or crashing server.

[What]

Indeed it would be, if he was aware that that is what caused it. All he does is spam the fly button, and the glitch was caused by holding down the button. I hope you can see how this could easily not have been intentional on his part, and if it was known that this is what caused the glitch, he would need to be told that so he has a chance to comply. As far as you know, despite the fact most people think he is a dick, he was not aware of what he was doing was in fact causing the glitch.

My point here is that with updates and new races, this could happen more and more. "Glitching" could occur from just playing the race, and unless the cause is identified and confirmed to be a glitch this opens the door to a lot of pointless bans in the near future.


EDIT: Wolfy astutely stated most of my points, except the part about letting glitching happen, though as I stated before, the tail is a new addition, very buggy right now, and is actually better for opponents to not see the tail than see it since it can blind the shit out of you if he flys through you.

[Old Bastard]

He was fully aware of what he was doing and my ban on Predator was justified and time was served.

[What]

I am not saying it was not justified, and this is not a thread about a ban on Predator. The issue is, with updates and a new race, simply playing a race can cause a glitch, since these things need to be found out through testing. To ban someone for glitching with something that was recently added to the server, a glitch that is caused by simply playing the race, is a bit too presumptuous. With that logic, say when undead was updated and the aura of suicide bomber would just glitch constantly making a death bubble around you, yes people did figure out how to do this and glitch it, but the first few times it happens it is clearly an accident. Sure you could say they were technically glitching and should be banned, but there needs to be a higher standard than this. If he was informed that he was in fact glitching, not just issues with various clients in game as it still is by the way, and that he needs to stop holding down the button, then yes, after a warning he should have been kicked and then banned if he continued.

That is a standard that needs to be held too. Just because something is glitching does not mean a player is intentionally glitching it.

[Wolfenstinger]

List of glitches/bugs that I know whether they are old, intentional, current (in order of race thread that is currently there) :

Undead Revival Suicide Bomber Spam for a few seconds [Patched]
Human Teleport Clipping
Human Bash acting as Banish effect as well [Patched, somewhat?]
Human Bash tilting screens
Orc reviving with a scroll
Night Elf killing itself with World (still have NO clue how to replicate this)
Blood Mage Banish tilting screens
Warden reviving with a scroll
Warden Shadow Strike instadeath / random procs of things other than poison [Patched]
Molecule invulnerable while moving (only seen this one once, wasn't even intentional if I recall)
Genocide Revival Spam (can be considered breaking rules as well, depending on how it is used)
Succubus Hunter Barely Visible
Panorama tilting screens
Vagabond stuck visible/invisible
Vagabond has no scout (rare)
Strider Bomb Teleporting Exploit
Hell Hunter Ultimate Knife Race
Hell Hunter many nades Any Race
Hell Hunter Unlimited Secondary Ammo [Pre-update Glitch, may come up again who knows]
Hell's Demon 1-Shot Everyone Glitch [Patched]
Hell's Demon Crashes Server for ALL reasons [Patched]
Magician Crow as another race (Spider-man Crow, Vagalion Crow, etc etc.) [Patched]
Shadow of the Void Free Ult Immunity [Patched?]
Nebula showing secondary while invisible
Beast Multiple Respawns (I've yet to see myself respawn more than 1 times; could be my luck idk)
Rapscallion Ultimate seen through walls
Dragon Fly Shits Guns! [Patched]
Vagalion stuck visible/invisible
Santa trail disappears
Santa many HE nades trick
Santa SpeedRacer [Patched]


These are majority of the glitches I've come across both pre-CSS update and now. Majority of these are patched. Others still happen. May be more I haven't listed, but as far as doing them, ZERO has done an excellent job fixing majority of our problems. As far as replicating most of these, I still know how to do. Some are self explanatory based off the name I gave it. Others, not so much.

[kionay]

i wonder if record test;done will mess with how people see/don't see stryder trails

like i've said before, the cause of this glitch needs to be definitive (not that that'll be easy to do)

not that it matters but if you get a stryder trail in your face you can start lagging like a mofo :-/

[What]

the point is this ^

FUCKITY FUCK FUCK.

Ban this god damn bot already, its been posting all over for months, Its god damn sig is an advertisement for Christ's sake.

[kionay]

FUCKITY FUCK FUCK.

Ban this god damn bot already, its been posting all over for months, Its god damn sig is an advertisement for Christ's sake.

... he joined on the 13th and the 9 posts he's made aren't duplicated and don't look like a bot's handiwork

???

[Wolfenstinger]

I vote it's a bot until it figures out a way to bot a STEAM ID of its own.

*Also his signature for the Dhoom 3 Download HD is broken.

[What]

... he joined on the 13th and the 9 posts he's made aren't duplicated and don't look like a bot's handiwork

???

You should feel bad about your ignorance

[CYBER]

... he joined on the 13th and the 9 posts he's made aren't duplicated and don't look like a bot's handiwork

???
It's definitely a bot. Any one-liner comments that are too generic, general and not directed at someone are always ground to be assumed to be a not. Especially if they never build on a conversation and simply repeat smthn, post stupolid useless shit, and simply break the 'feel' and flow of the current thread...

Also, having a fucking ad in the sig doesn't help...

-----

Wolf... U do know it's not that hard to randonmly add a steam id number from a log of numbers...
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Unless zero makes it so that when you sign out to the forums u will constantly get an in-game welcome message with a randomly generated pin code to be re-entered on the forums as a confirmation, then bots will always be programmed to bypass ur shit

[ZERO]

You should feel bad about your ignorance

It told me that it would launch skynet if I took hostile action against it...

[Passarelli]

Succubus Hunter Barely Visible
Hell Hunter Ultimate Knife Race
Beast Multiple Respawns (I've yet to see myself respawn more than 1 times; could be my luck idk)
Shadow of the Void Free Ult Immunity [Patched?]


Succubus Hunter with cloak and knife out is as transparent as Vagalion. It needs to have cloak restricted, or at least bring his transparency with his knife equal to that of when he has his gun. He is still more transparent then human with his ult and cloak when his gun is out. (actually, if cloak didn't give extra transparency when a knife is out, crow from Magician would be much easier to kill also)

Hell Hunter knife working with ultimate probably wasn't intentional, but it is hardly game breaking. The only way it works well is when you buy item(s) specifically for it. Is only useful when doing all knives or against flame preds that disarm you (who plays hell hunter on the ground while they can shoot?!).

Beast revives was likely a case of getting beast revive and another revive from someone else. If you are revived, you get the chance to spawn again (pretty sure). Also, if you die as beast, respawn from blood mage, die, you can be respawned from your first death and even possibly your second. This is why bloodmage + other revive races + self reviving races gets pretty crazy, especially pano.

Shadow of the Void's ability gives it ultimate immunity.

We should probably get a list together of the bugs that should be warn/kick/banable when abused (HH/Santa nade trick or Stryder bomb glitch).