Undead meet Shadow Hunter Shield

[CYBER]

Good times wolfie... Good times :P


8250

[What]

Well, test serve scenario so that can happen, don't want people thinking that this happened in a real game. But it does raise the interesting idea that perhaps undead would be better off not buying a lace to allow it to suck a tremendous amount of health from a shadow hunter.

[CYBER]

Well, test serve scenario so that can happen, don't want people thinking that this happened in a real game. But it does raise the interesting idea that perhaps undead would be better off not buying a lace to allow it to suck a tremendous amount of health from a shadow hunter.

For the record, I was able to survive 3 wards, AND Wolfe bursting me while I kept leeching off of him. Granted that the 500hp I would normally have leeched sustains me just enough to retain my original HP + leftover health leeched.

Was able to recreate such sustain with hellsdemons with a mask. The power increases from the mask, proportionally increase the health leeched

[Wolfenstinger]

Test Server = Controlled Scenarios
Live Server = Remember those Controlled Scenarios? Neither do I.

Overall : Screen cap it on live server along with how much dmg you took that round, then it's worth posting. That screenie you took is just proof that it can be done in a controlled environment where everything can go in your favor. :smirk:

[What]

mask with hells demon doesn't buff over 100 does it?

[Wolfenstinger]

No, but what Cyber is saying about Hell's Demon is that he can sit inside of wards and still spray (figuring hex isn't active) and outlast a shadow hunter that isn't going to shoot him in the face, while gaining power.

He just has to remember to buy anti_wards or else he's going to die as soon as the shadow hunter is dead. You can't leech health if you have no target.

[What]

so, if you are facing a completely incompetent or afk shadow hunter, you can survive. A Likely scenario.

[Wolfenstinger]

Or you just happened to mole into T spawn (CT Hells Demon, T Shadow Hunter), go to long hall and see the shadow hunter with his ult up + all 3 wards down conveniently, yes.

[CYBER]

I forgot to post another screen cap. The second one was only a 1000hp, because I wanted to put up a comparison of hex vs no hex proc.

We learned quite a bit from hex... And i will update the shadow Hunter thread In due time, but the one thing we learned the most is that : hex be wack, yo!

[What]

The problem with what learned about hex is that it was in a very controlled environment and based on you not dieing. Regardless of the few amount of procs and ability may get on you, if you are not using voodoo or if the person has a lace, you will still die. The effects of hex are not nearly as noticeable in a real-game environment, which is why so many people think it doesn't do anything, it does, its just subtle and unlikely to be a major game changer.

[brett friggin favre]

wow how hilarious.

now go take care of the damn ban threads, damn mexican.

[CYBER]

wow how hilarious.

now go take care of the damn ban threads, damn mexican.

They aren't going anywhere, I'll take care of them when it suits my schedule. Most likely tonight, at 3-4am when I get home...

- - - Updated - - -


The problem with what learned about hex is that it was in a very controlled environment and based on you not dieing. Regardless of the few amount of procs and ability may get on you, if you are not using voodoo or if the person has a lace, you will still die. The effects of hex are not nearly as noticeable in a real-game environment, which is why so many people think it doesn't do anything, it does, its just subtle and unlikely to be a major game changer.

I personally wish there was a sound and effect (like a damn translucide aura sphere or some shit that I can inform me in first person view that my damn hex is active now instead of going through an entire fucking clip on that damn molecule wondering if my bullets are going through. Because after extensive testing, Wolfe and I ruled out that the hex proc on ultimate is binary. Either ur entire ultimate is hex - enabled, or hex will not proc at all. There's no partial hex procing during ultimate.

We also tested clip-changing during the same ultimate, and it has no effect ever on hex, tell brett it was a myth.

So now the Golden question was, knowing that the ultimate is binary, how can I time it to worj during hex?

Well the closest we got was that If hex proc, it stays active for 15s as an internal cool down, after that 15s you go back to the will-it-or-wont-it-pfoc state, which currently is inconclusive as to what exactly TRIGGERS the hex to begin with.

But we did notice some correlation with taking initial damage leading to increased hex proc during ultimate.

But so far it's inconclusive as to whether or not sustaining damage (letting someone damage first) before popping ur ultimate with a guaranteed hex proc is actually a consistently viable strategy.

For example if u notice an undead not procing leech for a few secs, or enemy hasn't evaded in a while (like molecule), then there's a big chance ur hex is up, and u can pop that ultimate during it to melt that molecule shield...

An interesting notion we noticed is that If ur hex is currently active for the 15s, and u happen to pop your ultimate, when the ultimate is over (even if still before the 15s mark), hex has a Chance to stop working (tested it with wards for duration and scenario cases).
Current Conjecture from this is that the ultimate acts like A Reset or refresher for hex when popped....

Sometimes hex can go through 3 consecutive wards, which is roughly 45s (3hex cycles) and sometimes you aren't immune to ANY of the 3 b2b wards even after supposed cycle is repeated....
Like I said, the TRIGGERS for hex is weird as fuck, but the other conclusions we made are consistent so far.
Like I said, hex be wack yo

[Zackychuu]

Talking about Shadow Hunters.
Has the bug been fixed yet, where you will hear the noise of your Shield turning on even if someone near you has a lace and it doesn't actually activate?

[What]

That has never happened Zacky. You are aware that someone with a lace can shoot through the invincibility that shadow hunter has right?

[Zackychuu]

That has never happened Zacky. You are aware that someone with a lace can shoot through the invincibility that shadow hunter has right?

I'm quite sure it has, I heard someone say it once and then it happened to me aswell.
I am well aware that someone with a lace has the ability to shoot through the shield - I am not new to the server.

I will go through my example:
I was in the lower corridor on Dust2, I used my ulti against somebody and the sound went off.
During battle I saw the "An Enemy has Immunity" warning at the bottom, which means that someone with a lace was too close to me for my ultimate to toggle.
The person that killed me did not have a lace, my ultimate sound went off but the ultimate itself did not activate.
Hence, glitch.


As I say, I heard it from someone and wondered what the hell they were talking about, then a few maps later it happened to me and I understood.

[Wolfenstinger]

Because after extensive testing, Ciber and I[/B] ruled out that the hex proc on ultimate is binary. Either ur entire ultimate is hex - enabled, or hex will not proc at all. There's no partial hex procing during ultimate.

Fix'd because you ruled that. Not me. I just played your guinea pig for x amount of time after you played guinea pig for me. It's still questionable though, even with everything we may have gained in a controlled environment.


Talking about Shadow Hunters.
Has the bug been fixed yet, where you will hear the noise of your Shield turning on even if someone near you has a lace and it doesn't actually activate?

Never recalled this happening when I played Shadow Hunter. But I guess my best suggestion is play the race, or do tests with somebody on test server for results. If you need a second opinion, I would suggest calling in somebody that just likes to play with this shit (*cough*Sayber*cough*)


It's kind of like the mystery of how Night Elf does damage to itself with thorns. I've seen Night Elves get killed because of it, and it LOOKs like they did kill in console, but in reality when they check their damage logs, its like 1 damage taken from self that finished the job. I've had it happen to me on the live server as well, and I still don't understand it. This is BEFORE the Night Elf Rework. Supposedly you can still have this happen, as when I played Hells Demon with Cyber, some of my Last Strike deaths would show damage dealt to self as well? THINGS I NEED TO REMEMBER TO SCREENCAP AND MAKE DEMOS OF :headache:

[What]

I would guess you are spamming the button, which causes the warning to pop up later, nothing you said would indicate the ultimate never went off.

[kionay]

as time goes by the number of things we find that we apparently need to test seems to increase exponentially

while the things that we are testing dwindles as a much slower pace :-/

i've never heard of the night elf glitch but since i need to get my last level or two in that race i'll check my damage logs after i die and if i see it happen i'll get the demo and try to figure out wtf is goin' on

[CYBER]

I have seen the night elf self damage happen. If I understand right, it's usually after sustaining some effect damage like locust or sickle.

Depending on how zero programmed it, it could show up as if being reduced from the night elf itself as opposed to inflicted and reduced on attack.

I'm not saying that the sickle shows up as thorns but I'm saying that the way the reduce is done, night elf's defense mechanism perceive the health reduction as an attack on itself, from itself, and uses thorns to retaliate to the source which is itself, like an autoimmune disease...

Its a theory though, that's why I personally wish zero could include me privately on some code archives so I can learn from the best as a software engineer, while providing fresh eyes to the code that could be causing wtf moments like this

[kionay]

Its a theory though, that's why I personally wish zero could include me privately on some code archives so I can learn from the best as a software engineer, while providing fresh eyes to the code that could be causing wtf moments like this

what purpose would having an effect be programmed as that race damaging itself serve?

if it were a mirror effect i guess i could see it, but unless i'm understanding your theory incorrectly, you're sugesting that a damaging ability was programmed so that, instead of dealing damage from a third source (or the source being the person with the damaging ability) it's the player that is being delt TO that is dealing the damage

and if that player is a night elf the thorns triggers itself on itself?

i'm just so WAT right now, fuck i wish i knew the code, i may stare at code from 8-5 but what i wouldn't give to be able to just a little bit longer to help fix these strange little things

[CYBER]

what purpose would having an effect be programmed as that race damaging itself serve?

if it were a mirror effect i guess i could see it, but unless i'm understanding your theory incorrectly, you're sugesting that a damaging ability was programmed so that, instead of dealing damage from a third source (or the source being the person with the damaging ability) it's the player that is being delt TO that is dealing the damage

and if that player is a night elf the thorns triggers itself on itself?

i'm just so WAT right now, fuck i wish i knew the code, i may stare at code from 8-5 but what i wouldn't give to be able to just a little bit longer to help fix these strange little things


I'm saying that the code to apply "Extra" damage from an effect onto the victim might be that it simply does :
new_health= current_health-bonus_damage within the victim race itself.

instead of applying the damage THROUGH the "on hit damage" method built into the game engine itself. (on attack)
There's a chance zero avoided to use the source engine to reduce the hp by applying it as additional "on hit damage" in order to avoid proccing the attacker's other on-hit abilitties.

Kinda like how jack's shit proc on eachother.

so if the night elf THORNS have a "if my hp is reduced" precursor, instead of "if my hp is damaged by enemy" precursor, there's a chance thorns is proccing on itself...


Like i said, just reading this outloud sounds incredibly fucking dumb (i can see how stupid this all sounds), but when a fucking semi-column can make it or break it in programming, trust me, i've seen some weird ass shit, and all i can do is throw theories mindlessly and speculate until i can see the code. and preferably see the code AND a recorded demo of a sample case so that we can identify some variables and replicate the bug.