Suicide needs Punishment

[Meltdown]

Ok

The last few weeks i have been watching some demo's and came to the conclusion that allot of people use suicide to avoid being tagged, and gain points from team wins. This is fucking up the game and objective of most of the ze maps, and I think there should be a penalty for doing so.

People who play for the intention of increasing there rank should earn it the right way, and if you are a pussy and chicken out by suicide, i propose you lose -20 for every suicide, Because people who do not play for the objective do not deserve any type of points. I think this is the fairest for everyone. Some people even make it sports which is not what it was intended for. I will talk to zero if this can be implanted asap.

Also if people know that they might lose points when they die, they will try a little harder doing there best.

[garey40]

Ok to expand on what meltdown is saying. Basically numerous people constantly suicide especially on escape maps but as well as zm ether when the team begins to fail or if there about to be tagged (not using commands) but to avoid losing points,so what we are proposing is suicide counts toward point loss. Doing this puts them at a constant advantage being they are never losing points. No we aren't talking about one specific person we speak of a majority of the server, so all you rank whores don't get offended. Now i have a demo to show how this is abused and should be change, racist this is in no way a report against your or anything its for people to grasp what we speak of. Just watch the demo threw Spectate somewhat racist.
8251

[anex]

I thought this was already a thing when hallwagner abused the kill command to suicide. Some sort of point loss should be in place

[Meltdown]

20 might be overkill, but definitely needs something in place. It needs to be scary to suicide and u wish you would have been tagged a by a zombie instead.

[$Money$]

Yea I gotta agree with this also. Really no difference than zteleting away from zombies, you know your dead so might as well kill yourself. Plus a lot of times you put some work in to break a cade and then their dead by the time you get to them.

[anex]

Plus a lot of times you put some work in to break a cade and then their dead by the time you get to them.

As a human when I suicide before the zombies get me, this is what goes through my head...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlr-4PECivg

[garey40]

As a human when I suicide before the zombies get me, this is what goes through my head...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlr-4PECivg
http://www.papermag.com/uploaded_images/tumblr_m9xk0qwlU71qchnw4o1_500.gif

[acolyte_to_jippity]

umm, its already in the rules that suiciding to avoid being tagges is not allowed. i generally slay at the start of the next round, or freeze them for 30 seconds at the beginning of the round.

[anex]

Its not against the rules to suicide normally. Its against the rules to use commands to commit suicide.

[garey40]

umm, its already in the rules that suiciding to avoid being tagges is not allowed. i generally slay at the start of the next round, or freeze them for 30 seconds at the beginning of the round.
Zteleing & Console –This only pertains to humans
Attempting to flee from a zombie.
Disconnecting then rejoining to avoid getting tagged
Using the "Change teams" command to avoid getting tagged
Joining spectator to avoid getting tagged

Please show us jumping off a 20ft building or into deadly water?
http://error1355.com/img/gif/hmmm-alright.gif

[phil.™]

Where the fuck are you getting all these GIF's from? You have a GIF for everything lol.

But along with anex said, isn't there already a punishment for human jumping to their death? I mean yes they might get points for team win, but don't they get more negative points in the end?

[garey40]

Where the fuck are you getting all these GIF's from? You have a GIF for everything lol.

But along with anex said, isn't there already a punishment for human jumping to their death? I mean yes they might get points for team win, but don't they get more negative points in the end?
No you lose nothing for a suicide.
http://img.pandawhale.com/83932-effy-stonem-nothing-gif-wniH.gif

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Its not against the rules to suicide normally. Its against the rules to use commands to commit suicide.

this is what i'm referring to. if you folks are talking about people jumping off cliffs/into insta-kill areas to avoid being tagged, then i can't agree with you on it. choosing to ends one own life in the face of adversity is every living beings god-given right. doing so via commands is wrong, however.

if dumbasses want to jump, let them jump.

[anex]

We are not trying to make jumping off of cliffsvto avoid getting turned illegal. Just right now there is no rank point penalty. We are suggesting a point penalty is all.

[Meltdown]

if dumbasses want to jump, let them jump.

The people who jump aren't the dumb people, if someone kills himself in 10 rounds where the team wins =50 skill do it 20 times =100. On top of that those who jump let there team die. If we want ze maps to work, there has to be some sort of punishment, or people will only play to kill them self and never improve to the point where we can beat a map. also it ruins the ladder, people abusing this system to gain an amount of skill which people who play the normal way never can reach.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

The people who jump aren't the dumb people, if someone kills himself in 10 rounds where the team wins =50 skill do it 20 times =100. On top of that those who jump let there team die. If we want ze maps to work, there has to be some sort of punishment, or people will only play to kill them self and never improve to the point where we can beat a map. also it ruins the ladder, people abusing this system to gain an amount of skill which people who play the normal way never can reach.

1) i don't give a shit about making ze maps work.

2) i fail to see how it ruins the ladder. it doesn't result in a gain of skill. killing zombies and building good cades does. if the person in question has an escape method, then good on them. according to you, if i go into the game and jump off a building 500 times, my skill will go up? that's ludicrous.

3) what do you mean that people who play the normal way can never reach the rank the suiciders get? maybe the people you're holding up as being more normal, are just worse at the game.

incidentally, i'm assuming you're telling us you suicide all the time? considering how there are "people abusing this system to gain an amount of skill which people who play the normal way never can reach", when you're ranked #1 with 1500+ skill points over the 2nd place person. no possible way to achieve that spot without abusing the system like you're talking about.

[Meltdown]

1) i don't give a shit about making ze maps work.

2) i fail to see how it ruins the ladder. it doesn't result in a gain of skill. killing zombies and building good cades does. if the person in question has an escape method, then good on them. according to you, if i go into the game and jump off a building 500 times, my skill will go up? that's ludicrous.

3) what do you mean that people who play the normal way can never reach the rank the suiciders get? maybe the people you're holding up as being more normal, are just worse at the game.

incidentally, i'm assuming you're telling us you suicide all the time? considering how there are "people abusing this system to gain an amount of skill which people who play the normal way never can reach", when you're ranked #1 with 1500+ skill points over the 2nd place person. no possible way to achieve that spot without abusing the system like you're talking about.

1. I guess you don't

2. I think fighting till the end is the way to go. HARDMODE

3. People who want to play certain maps because there awsome made, if half of your team decide to kill them selfs because they might think the odds are against them, then you will never get any further, also maps like Sorrento, rooftop, moria, ice cap all maps with possible ways to suicide are overplayed because it is an easy way to gain huge skill with the less possible effort and resistance.

I suggest you should check the no 1 weekly improvements and the no 2 and u will see what i mean. those difference in 1500 will be undone in less then a week, unless the no 1 start the play like no 2 which the no 1 don't like as it would be boring as hell to spectate on every actual fun map.

Edit:

The bottom line is, people should stop being wussies about there rank, if you decide to suicide then that is aright, but you will lose points. If you decide to stick around, hey you might win or you might lose, there is a choice, and for me it will be no different.

[Mr.Dangerous]

What makes u think people care about their "points"?
I do, but I doubt the others care about their points.

[Meltdown]

What makes u think people care about their "points"?
I do, but I doubt the others care about their points.

I can't decide if you are trolling or really ignorant.

[garey40]

What makes u think people care about their "points"?
I do, but I doubt the others care about their points.
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nhl/blog/BoucherFace.gif
Iv just lost 25% of my brain cells reading this.

[euronews]

This sounds really good because it would make some ze maps.work out.. but what if them knowing that theres no way of to save there rank leads them to just sit in spec and we won't have help at all...

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

How do you deduce that someone intentionally jumped to their death or made a fail jump? I for one do not trust someone who can hardly spell to decide my fate in that manner. Example, i was playing serrento last night... i died from the water more times then being tagged by a zombie based simply off the fact that i missed my jumps. Stop trying to micro-manage the ZM server. It will not make it better and it only makes you look like a downie. Committing suicide via console is already against the rules and that should be enough. Being that i find it almost 100% impossible to be 100% certain someone jumped to their death to avoid being tagged with out a signed confession. You cannot implement this as a rule.


This sounds really good because it would make some ze maps.work out.. but what if them knowing that theres no way of to save there rank leads them to just sit in spec and we won't have help at all...

You see... you new admins have a very serious problem with your ability to fucking read. I swear to god.

Other - Rules that have no particular grouping but needed

First Zombie(s) must tag someone or make a valid attempt
Spectating or AFK players must, if over 5 minutes, must join the game or leave the server
During escape maps, humans must leave the spawn area and complete the map objective. Humans that stay in spawn with the intent on killing the first zombie is prohibited.
Zombies and Humans can not coexist. Zombies must tag or !ztele no matter the circumstances
A player may not, by any means, bypass the tagging process to continually play as a zombie
Any form of rank manipulation will not be tolerated

What do you see in this section of the rules? Your leaders here at IBIS are not morons... im sure their is a written rule to cover just about any exploit you can think of.

If you still dont know how to read rules ill type it for you. Players can not sit in spectate for more then 5 min without leaving the server or joining the game. This means that players who sit in spectate for an entire map... should be delt with if you are an admin.

[anex]

This thread is not about making suicide illegal. It is and will always be legal. This thread is to discuss losing rank points upon suicide.

[Meltdown]

This thread is not about making suicide illegal. It is and will always be legal. This thread is to discuss losing rank points upon suicide.

This

It will always happen on accident that people die, you can hardly punish that. the same when people die on accident when they forgot to !ztele. it's a risk you take by playing the map, no chicken way out anymore.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

This thread is not about making suicide illegal. It is and will always be legal. This thread is to discuss losing rank points upon suicide.

I understand but to reduce rank points for such a thing under the assumption that players are doing it on purpose is still a form of punishment. What is being proposed here is that everyone who meets an un timely death at the fate of long falls or death water will be subjected to a ridiculous point loss. Id like to think that more people simply miss jump or fail jump. Another example is space station. I watched as the secret door to the Xwing opened.... 60% of the humans had no idea about the exploding floor. They all died as a "form of suicide." Did they die on purpose? No. Would they all lose a ridiculous amount of points for not knowing? Under this proposal, yes. In never ending attempts to keep the game fair, i do not see this as a productive change.

If the power here can not be wavered by what i say. Giving - points to players who die via suicide is not the answer. Simply make a change that only allows team win points to those who are alive. Players shouldn't LOSE points from the pool they have already earned because of simple mistakes like missing a jump ect.

[Meltdown]

I understand but to reduce rank points for such a thing under the assumption that players are doing it on purpose is still a form of punishment. What is being proposed here is that everyone who meets an un timely death at the fate of long falls or death water will be subjected to a ridiculous point loss. Id like to think that more people simply miss jump or fail jump. Another example is space station. I watched as the secret door to the Xwing opened.... 60% of the humans had no idea about the exploding floor. They all died as a "form of suicide." Did they die on purpose? No. Would they all lose a ridiculous amount of points for not knowing? Under this proposal, yes. In never ending attempts to keep the game fair, i do not see this as a productive change.

If the power here can not be wavered by what i say. Giving - points to players who die via suicide is not the answer. Simply make a change that only allows team win points to those who are alive. Players shouldn't LOSE points from the pool they have already earned because of simple mistakes like missing a jump ect.

So people who work hard to break a cade, where some zombies die, to simple see humans kill themselfs is also not fair. The rules apply to everyone meaning it will affect everyone, so it is in no way unfair, everyone accedantly fall sometimes, you lose points, get over it and try again. People who get angry over that simple shouldn't be playing.

How the system is now is unfair, those who play casual and those who are new are basicly being abused by those who know every cheap secret. Also the reason why some maps are over played is because of this, this outcome will balance allot of things. so it is a win win situation, the only group who would lose here is those who hug there rank and do everything in there power to deny people there kills.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

So people who work hard to break a cade, where some zombies die, to simple see humans kill themselfs is also not fair. The rules apply to everyone meaning it will affect everyone, so it is in no way unfair, everyone accedantly fall sometimes, you lose points, get over it and try again. People who get angry over that simple shouldn't be playing.

How the system is now is unfair, those who play casual and those who are new are basicly being abused by those who know every cheap secret. Also the reason why some maps are over played is because of this, this outcome will balance allot of things. so it is a win win situation, the only group who would lose here is those who hug there rank and do everything in there power to deny people there kills.

90% of that post is hardly legible. What you fail to understand is my last sentence in my previous post. Secondly, if a player is committing suicide in a cade that was broken... that is already against the rules. I cant think of a single cade you can build that would allow you to commit suicide without using console to do it. Your paranoia is ruining your better judgment. As it stand right now, you are hysterically claiming that every one who frequents ZM vote and play only maps they can jump to there death in. That is completely absurd.

[Meltdown]

90% of that post is hardly legible. What you fail to understand is my last sentence in my previous post. Secondly, if a player is committing suicide in a cade that was broken... that is already against the rules. I cant think of a single cade you can build that would allow you to commit suicide without using console to do it. Your paranoia is ruining your better judgment. As it stand right now, you are hysterically claiming that every one who frequents ZM vote and play only maps they can jump to there death in. That is completely absurd.

And thaths why so many agree.... Mikey this is not about me, keep that in mind. I will give you one cade, desert foretress secret room with the teleport, if it fails people throw themselfs from the roof when they get teleported, and it is qa bitch ass spot to get.

U think it is absurd, still it happens, and if you think it is not happening, then all i can say i respect your opinion. Most people agree that this is absolute fair mechanism.

[sup]

Playing escape maps and suiciding instead of getting tagged = cheap.

Playing cade maps and building impossible cades, then getting noobs trapped in them to whore kills because they don't know how to get themselves unstuck (this is really how 99% of the "pro" ZM players play cade maps) = totally not cheap at all.

All Meltdown's suggestion would do, if implemented, would be to make cade maps vastly more attractive to rank whores. Which, I think, is exactly what he wants. Notice that the people in support (peter, euronews) also prefer ZM to ZE.

Here's a counter-suggestion if you really want to stop rank-whoring and make people play "normally", no matter what map: get rid of rank entirely, or remove point penalties entirely.

Edit: to add one more piece of information for context, for people who don't play ZM frequently: it is impossible to use a console command to suicide after zombies have spawned if you're a human or a spawn zombie (unless you're an admin and you just slay yourself). If you attempt to type "kill" in console after the server has selected the players who will be zombies, it will say "suicide intercepted" and stop you. Same for attempting to go into spectate or switch teams.

[Meltdown]

I think zero can implant it in such a way that some stuff are not affected by it.

And i do not see why we suddenly will play more zm because of this, people still would mass vote lotro maps or death star or indiana jones.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Playing escape maps and suiciding instead of getting tagged = cheap.

Playing cade maps and building impossible cades, then getting noobs trapped in them to whore kills because they don't know how to get themselves unstuck (this is really how 99% of the "pro" ZM players play cade maps) = totally not cheap at all.

All Meltdown's suggestion would do, if implemented, would be to make cade maps vastly more attractive to rank whores. Which, I think, is exactly what he wants. Notice that the people in support (peter, euronews) also prefer ZM to ZE.

Here's a counter-suggestion if you really want to stop rank-whoring and make people play "normally", no matter what map: get rid of rank entirely, or remove point penalties entirely.

Edit: to add one more piece of information for context, for people who don't play ZM frequently: it is impossible to use a console command to suicide after zombies have spawned if you're a human or a spawn zombie (unless you're an admin and you just slay yourself). If you attempt to type "kill" in console after the server has selected the players who will be zombies, it will say "suicide intercepted" and stop you. Same for attempting to go into spectate or switch teams.

notice that one of the people not supporting this wishes every single escape map other than maybe three removed from the server immediately, and wants permission to instantly mute/kick/ban people who ask for an escape map.

[$Money$]

Pretty easy to tell honestly. New players really don't know shit about rank system so they think killing themselves will make them lose points. It mostly all the regular players who do this sort of thing. Plus hearing the phrase "Better dead than Red" kinda gives it away. I see a lot of players killing themselves either to avoid being tagged or after they turn just die since they don't wanna be a zombie.
Either on purpose or accident you should lose more points for suicide than anything else.
On Moria if you fall behind and the door closes on you, its against the rules to shoot it to get through even though your still doing the objective. If you accidently fall to your death, well that's your fault. Play more and get better, I'm sorry you suck and quit being a little bitch and killing yourself.

Quit your bitching :plzdie:

[euronews]

mikey.. doesnt that apply only to when we have a full server? whats the point if theres only 20 people playing? and even if they sit in spec for longer than 5 mins and we kick them.. theyll just wait till the map is done then rejoin and most of these people that will do this are people who are actually good and we need. :ditto: do you think we need people who suck to join instead of the good people? theyll just edge and get tagged causing mass rape.. and guess who still wins ? zombies.

[RofLoLmao]

Why are people still discussing whether suicide is legal or not? Killing yourself through the use of the map ex: sorrento water will always be legal. This thread only pertains to whether suicide should come with point deductions as well.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

mikey.. doesnt that apply only to when we have a full server? whats the point if theres only 20 people playing? and even if they sit in spec for longer than 5 mins and we kick them.. theyll just wait till the map is done then rejoin and most of these people that will do this are people who are actually good and we need. :ditto: do you think we need people who suck to join instead of the good people? theyll just edge and get tagged causing mass rape.. and guess who still wins ? zombies.

Does it say that in the rules? The rules are the rules and they should be enforced accordingly.
Edit: Though in the several years iv been here, the spectate rule has been relaxed if the server isnt full. That does not mean the rule does not apply or it shouldn't be followed. Also, why does it matter if the good players get kicked for being in spectate or are sitting in spectate? They arent even playing, therefore your argument is invalid.

Secondly, meltdown. What you are saying would punish every single player on ZM even though you are attempting to target a select few who suicide via map. That is why i suggested it would be more sensible to not tack on a negitave point value to people who do such things and only allow map win point bonuses to those players who are still alive. This would be alot easier to do and it achieves the same goal without demonizing the entire ZM community.

[sup]

Secondly, meltdown. What you are saying would punish every single player on ZM even though you are attempting to target a select few who suicide via map. That is why i suggested it would be more sensible to not tack on a negitave point value to people who do such things and only allow map win point bonuses to those players who are still alive.

Just to clarify, this is already how the point system works for humans. Dead humans don't receive points for a human victory. Only living humans do.

[euronews]

mikey the point of this thread is that the good players are playing but when it comes to almost dying they commit suicide..instead of defending. if you know how to read please read the original thread. my point is that if we implement this rule they wont play at all because theyll lose rank and how can we have a good ze community if the server is loaded with noobs:banghead:

[sup]

mikey the point of this thread is that the good players are playing but when it comes to almost dying they commit suicide..instead of defending.

You put this more cogently than Meltdown did and I'd like to respond to it. If the good players are ready to throw in the towel, you know it's a hopeless situation. When you suicide as a human, you're already, in a way, losing points--the ones that you would have earned by winning the round. Tacking an additional penalty on top of that would be completely unnecessary. It might even have the opposite of the intended effect by encouraging the good players to simply allow themselves to get tagged, since they're going to lose points either way, so that they can mitigate that point loss by tagging the remaining humans before the other zombies do.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Just to clarify, this is already how the point system works for humans. Dead humans don't receive points for a human victory. Only living humans do.

Then i guess i dont understand how.... jumping off a cliff gives you points... or rather why this is even an issue to begin with.

[sup]

Then i guess i dont understand how.... jumping off a cliff gives you points... or rather why this is even an issue to begin with.


It doesn't give you points, it just prevents you from being tagged, which results in a variable point loss based on the comparative rank of the player who tags you. But hey, if you misjudge the situation and your team goes on to win without you (which has happened to me before), not only do you look like a pussy for bailing too soon but you miss out on those sweet victory points too.

Really, I think the system is balanced pretty well right now. Meltdown wants to change the way it works to discourage certain popular maps from being played as much as they are, not to alter player behavior. I think there are more direct ways of doing that. For example, using his admin to change the map when he's senior (which is often since he's frequently the only admin on when playing due to timezone differences with the majority of the other admins).

[Meltdown]

Then i guess i dont understand how.... jumping off a cliff gives you points... or rather why this is even an issue to begin with.

Because people are being wussies, this server needs to grow up. All this drama is because there is a certain group who do not want this because it takes away there whoring. IT equals the playfield even if you agree with it or not. Either learn 2 play or lose points like the noob you are.

I don't see why this is such an issue if you are a good player then there is no need to worry. Or are all the people afraid of a challenge, because all I see is people clinging to easymode atm.

When it comes down to it people show there true colours and this thread makes it very clear.

[anex]

Just to clarify, this is already how the point system works for humans. Dead humans don't receive points for a human victory. Only living humans do.

If that is the case, then why are we discussing about losing points? I was led to believe that people were suiciding as humans and gaining rank points when they shouldn't have been. Am I wrong? If thats the case the I change my vote to no.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Because people are being wussies, this server needs to grow up. All this drama is because there is a certain group who do not want this because it takes away there whoring. IT equals the playfield even if you agree with it or not. Either learn 2 play or lose points like the noob you are.

I don't see why this is such an issue if you are a good player then there is no need to worry. Or are all the people afraid of a challenge, because all I see is people clinging to easymode atm.

When it comes down to it people show there true colours and this thread makes it very clear.
No actually, its begining to look like you are the one clin8ng onto rank. By suggesting ideas that would potentially knock the top players down and give you the chance to make it to the top.

[sup]

If that is the case, then why are we discussing about losing points? I was led to believe that people were suiciding as humans and gaining rank points when they shouldn't have been. Am I wrong? If thats the case the I change my vote to no.

Humans are suiciding to avoid getting tagged, not to get victory points that they're not supposed to. Dead humans don't get points for a human victory. And remember, this is happening on escape maps. If half the team is suiciding when the situation turns bad, it's extremely unlikely the surviving humans are gonna pull it together and win, which would be necessary for those dead humans to get points (if it even worked that way in the first place).

[euronews]

No actually, its begining to look like you are the one clin8ng onto rank. By suggesting ideas that would potentially knock the top players down and give you the chance to make it to the top.

100% true mikey, it would give him a chance to stay at the top

[Steamer]

Make it worth tag points. Done. Simple.
This is what I think when before I commit suicide...

NuNnw3e2SjM

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

100% true mikey, it would give him a chance to stay at the top

oh boy, i didnt realize he was rank 1. It makes it even more obvious now.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Make it worth tag points. Done. Simple.
This is what I think when before I commit suicide...

NuNnw3e2SjM

wait, that's the only ending to terminator 2 i've ever seen. what makes it an alternate ending?


oh boy, i didnt realize he was rank 1. It makes it even more obvious now.

ding ding ding! did i not notice this earlier?

[Steamer]

Meltdown kills himself enough, through stupidity or fault, I don't see his gain. I thought there was a penalty for a while now. I consider it rank manipulation without one. At maximum it should be the same demotion as a zombie tag. Zero doesn't like fooling around with stats much, the database doesn't like it and odd things sometimes happen. All the more reason for a much needed full rank reset and point debate and restructure..... If a thread could be started in the public section (regs have had great ideas and suggestions and experience) with current point settings, suggestions in altering, ect, I will do my best to keep it clean of bs and possibly get some things worked out. I (and Anex if willing) of course will also mod the original OP with colored notes based on opinion and collaboration. Would like to make the ZM ranks more appealing and difficult as they once were, and reg help would be appreciated as we know most you all love the server and community as well.

[Pierogi]

damn!


I always thought that I have like 0.5 KD on sorrento lol
Now, I will be subconsciously tempted to abuse it :icon_twisted:


On a serious note, isn't getting tagged and then killing 2+ people better for your rank than suiciding? The only time this doesn't apply is when you're the last human alive but then I think you deserve the points.

[Meltdown]

Well these demo's speak for itself, watch them. plenty of times where suicide was not needed and where ct could have won.

just play them on fast speed, and this is only on sorrento and moria.

8262
8263

I never thought such a small change would bring out such a discussion, Still I think it is for the good to add this, people need to stick together till the end, in moria there where 2 chances where humans could have won, but even the ring bearer decided to kill himself and took away a great opportunity for victory.

[B1ackOut]

What is the goal of this thread? From what i understand you lose points for suicide/dying as a human and do not gain any from winning the map if you are dead. Where is the rank manipulation? If you kill yourself you are dead and do not get points from the win. Denying zombies of the kill isn't a problem because you already being punished by losing points from the death. I thought this was a problem that we solved for fagner and others years ago.

[$Money$]

What is the goal of this thread? From what i understand you lose points for suicide/dying as a human and do not gain any from winning the map if you are dead. Where is the rank manipulation? If you kill yourself you are dead and do not get points from the win. Denying zombies of the kill isn't a problem because you already being punished by losing points from the death. I thought this was a problem that we solved for fagner and others years ago.

From my understand the point of it was that so many ppl were killing themselves just to avoid getting tagged. Since a lot of players are doing this, If you suicide yourself change it so that you lose points. As or right now nothing happens when you suicide.
I don't think it really matters anymore tho.

[Steamer]

You don't lose points killing yourself. Just round won points. That was for command suicide. Jumping to your death is a different story.

[VLKhgh]

I would like to know why this is even a consideration? suicide isn't benefiting anything other than avoid being tagged (not in an illegal way), not like we're gaining points or anything. Also, how would you know if one is suiciding? what if, for example, on sorrento, someone just happens to fall off by mistake, they're going lose points for that? no. this is a stupid argument meltdown, especially when you suicide yourself hypocrite. It's one thing for suiciding to be punishable if they use it in a rank manipulation format like on fapescape where, once you die, you spawn as a zombie. However, losing points for suicide isn't a good enough argument because then you'd be losing points from death, regardless if it's suicide or not. And one can't be punished just because he or she died

[Meltdown]

I would like to know why this is even a consideration? suicide isn't benefiting anything other than avoid being tagged (not in an illegal way), not like we're gaining points or anything. Also, how would you know if one is suiciding? what if, for example, on sorrento, someone just happens to fall off by mistake, they're going lose points for that? no. this is a stupid argument meltdown, especially when you suicide yourself hypocrite. It's one thing for suiciding to be punishable if they use it in a rank manipulation format like on fapescape where, once you die, you spawn as a zombie. However, losing points for suicide isn't a good enough argument because then you'd be losing points from death, regardless if it's suicide or not. And one can't be punished just because he or she died

Because it make it harder to chicken out, that is why it should be there. You win you get the glory you lose you get to pay, there shouldn't be a midway of chickin out.

Yes i did kill myself and i also should be punish for that, i see my error in the way i played. The whole server is starting to do it now because it becomes a trend as it is obvious good for ranking to do so (why risking the chance to lose 10 points, if you can get off free), maps never get finished, the atmosphere gets fucked up and ibis will be known as the server full wussies.

You guys trying to bash me because you think I'm a crying little bitch, well u forget that the most people playing on ibis hate the fact that ze maps never get played properly, it is just that the majority doesn't have a voice here on the forums as they don't got an account.

You guys should stop being wussies, if you wanna be in the top 10 become a better player, especially u VLK, if U think your not up to the challenge then your absolute not worth the time.

[Meltdown]

Ok, been thinking this over, and thought about the complaints, when u accidental fell or some other shit happens, it's not what i had in mind, but i don't mind adding some water to the wine.

When u die the first time, because you fell you will lose nothing, after that the more u die by suicide the more you lose, like 2 points from death number 2 up till 10 or more after death no 5/6

This way you will prevent people from losing points by accident, most people who use there brain or are caring enough for there silly rank won't die twice by accident.

This should reset on each map, like increased knockback on ze when we start a new ze.

[Bchhog]

Wow quite the discussion over rank manipulation here. In the end though if people truly want to manipulate their rank they'll find a way. That put aside, I thought about how to change the points system a bit. Now I have no idea how complicated the point system is but in simple terms I believe this would help equal things out. Keep it where those who win the map get points and those who died during do not.

If you get infected you lose more than what you would get from killing a zombie. Doesn't have to be a great amount but at least 1x. When you kill a human as a zombie you get half the points of a zombie kill as a human. Or less because there are some skilled zombies in the server. Basically punish everyone equally for dying or becoming infected and reward everyone who succeeds or helps eradicate the zombie population.

Example:

T's victory: 2.5pts to everyone alive.
Ct's victory: 5pts to everyone alive.
Zombie killed: 1 pt
Human killed: .05pt
Infected:-2pt


Optional: If it's such a big problem maybe do away with the rank entirely for ZM.

[brett friggin favre]

Optional: If it's such a big problem maybe do away with the rank entirely for ZM.

but how would we replace all the drama we'd be missing?

[Bchhog]

but how would we replace all the drama we'd be missing?

Soaps?

[SCRIBBLE]

No one is suiciding their way to the top. Next topic...

Chose yes, meant no.

[Steamer]

Let's just remove ZM rank.... yay.

[euronews]

let's just remove zm rank.... Yay.

nooo -.-

[brett friggin favre]

Let's just remove ZM rank.... yay.

i agree with this. less reason for cunts to be cunty (blocking for example), less shit for us to enforce/argue about (such as suiciding).

[euronews]

without rank you have nothing to work for.

[brett friggin favre]

without rank you have nothing to work for.

it's a fuckin' game, you don't play to work, you play for fun. if your goal is to increase your rank rather than to win the given round, your priorities are fucked.

[euronews]

rank > all, if you dont play zm dont make suggestions to it.

[brett friggin favre]

I do play zm and I see too many people typing in their rank, using it to belittle other players, sitting out maps or rounds because they're afraid to lose rank, raging about little mistakes people make because it hurts their rank, etc. It's silly.

additionally, rank whores tend to vote for the same maps over and over again that they think are good for their rank. on new maps or maps they think are challenging, they'll sit in spectate and try to rtv. it contributes to monotony and makes shit boring.

[Bchhog]

I've played ZM for over a year now and I'm for removing rank. Seems people tend to care more about that than winning escape maps and surviving cade maps. As farve stated above, anymore it's the same maps played over and over all day. Doing away with the ranking system would put more focus on surviving and beating escape maps which seems more interesting.

[phil.™]

Simple. Keep stats and points for zm maps, take off point system for ze maps. That way rank whores can play ze maps and no jump to their death, get tagged defending like others and help contribute without fucking their rank. Zm maps, keep rank and stats up, because well it's always good to have a ranking system.

[Bchhog]

Simple. Keep stats and points for zm maps, take off point system for ze maps. That way rank whores can play ze maps and no jump to their death, get tagged defending like others and help contribute without fucking their rank. Zm maps, keep rank and stats up, because well it's always good to have a ranking system.


See one problem with that, it would encourage rank whores to control the maps and always play ZM.

[phil.™]

There's like 4-6 main rank whores who want zm only, the rest are open for ze or zm. If these rank whores knew the ze maps wouldn't mess with their rank, then maybe they will actually play, and help with ze. Instead of sitting in spec, telling everyone to RTV, and actually help make IBIS ZE a fun place.

Let's face it, these rank whores are rank whores simply put. But they know how to play, where to defend, how to defend. If they knew getting tagged, getting caught, dying in ze wouldn't fuck up their rank, they can lead to higher success rate in wins for ze maps.

ZM is where the points rack up. Build a decent cade, trap a zombie, get headshots, kill them. Bam. Be a starter zombie, tag all those who are still running around, bam more points. Not much of a challenge.
ZE, just run, defend, get to the next level. It's fun, it's challenging.

[What]

What if every time someone suicides, whoever is ranked #1 loses 10 points?

[SCRIBBLE]

if the #1 spot is held by the same person for more than three days it removes all of their points. if they are good enough they can work their way back to the top.

[garey40]

What if every time someone suicides, whoever is ranked #1 loses 10 points?
http://static.tumblr.com/bnhunfz/CNOltwbja/mean_girls_gif7.gif

[acolyte_to_jippity]

See one problem with that, it would encourage rank whores to control the maps and always play ZM.

i fail to see the flaw here.

that sounds fucking amazing.

[$Money$]

Just go hardcore with it. Everytime you kill yourself, lose 1 spot and in rank. 150 of you die at once and I could become #1 lol :pistols:

[What]

if the #1 spot is held by the same person for more than three days it removes all of their points. if they are good enough they can work their way back to the top.

Second.

The motion carries, well done guys.

[Meltdown]

Let's just remove ZM rank.... yay.

+1

It's fucking hilarious tough to hear people Like racist and V|l|k and unexplained bitch about me when they think I'm not online, I could care less now for the whole rank system as it spawns people like them, oh man, i just would have love to see there faces the moment I took a knife kill from 3 people who where shooting that one zombie.

PS yesterday i played helms deep (half the server was like wtf meltdown and hemls deep) yes, and in the end we won helms deep. so before moaning i don't play much ze, atleast i play hardcore maps and win em too. :L33T:

[RofLoLmao]

There's like 4-6 main rank whores who want zm only, the rest are open for ze or zm. If these rank whores knew the ze maps wouldn't mess with their rank, then maybe they will actually play, and help with ze. Instead of sitting in spec, telling everyone to RTV, and actually help make IBIS ZE a fun place.

Let's face it, these rank whores are rank whores simply put. But they know how to play, where to defend, how to defend. If they knew getting tagged, getting caught, dying in ze wouldn't fuck up their rank, they can lead to higher success rate in wins for ze maps.

ZM is where the points rack up. Build a decent cade, trap a zombie, get headshots, kill them. Bam. Be a starter zombie, tag all those who are still running around, bam more points. Not much of a challenge.
ZE, just run, defend, get to the next level. It's fun, it's challenging.

Agree with this 90%. ZM needs rank plus suiciding is much harder on ZM maps. The only flaw here is that there is one rank whore *cough cough* racist (rank 1) that only plays ZE due to the points you win from winning rounds. Why do you think we always play rooftop, moria, sorrento, etc. when he is on? Removing rank on ZE would be beneficial to the true "ZM" rank whores lol.

[Meltdown]

Agree with this 90%. ZM needs rank plus suiciding is much harder on ZM maps. The only flaw here is that there is one rank whore *cough cough* racist (rank 1) that only plays ZE due to the points you win from winning rounds. Why do you think we always play rooftop, moria, sorrento, etc. when he is on? Removing rank on ZE would be beneficial to the true "ZM" rank whores lol.

Wel i wouldn't wanna trade my stats for his ever, I mean look at it. just pathetic, the only thing he got is rank 1, not even 1 knife kill or something else. I mean you did shit in the past, but your wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better then him.

[RofLoLmao]

Wel i wouldn't wanna trade my stats for his ever, I mean look at it. just pathetic, the only thing he got is rank 1, not even 1 knife kill or something else. I mean you did shit in the past, but your wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better then him.

Hey the past is the past. It's behind me now. Thanks for the compliment sir. Since you brought up knife kills, I got 3 lol and my kdr doesn't lie.

[Meltdown]

Hey the past is the past. It's behind me now. Thanks for the compliment sir. Since you brought up knife kills, I got 3 lol and my kdr doesn't lie.

Just saying that you don't need to suicide to get there, people who need to suicide are just incompetent, why else do u think they do it, because they know the lack the actual skill to make up for the lose. People playing that way just downgraded whatever is left of the meaning on rank on the zm server, not that is was that much, now it means total nothing.

[sup]

Just saying that you don't need to suicide to get there, people who need to suicide are just incompetent, why else do u think they do it, because they know the lack the actual skill to make up for the lose. People playing that way just downgraded whatever is left of the meaning on rank on the zm server, not that is was that much, now it means total nothing.

Yeah, he never suicides on ZE maps, or goes into spectate on ZM maps before zombies spawn if he can't get to a good spot (a little trick he picked up from me, BTW). No sir.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

hell, even my stats are better then half the QQers who whine about not getting the maps they want.

[garey40]

hell, even my stats are better then half the QQers who whine about not getting the maps they want.
http://bo80s.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/nJz7S1.gif

[brett friggin favre]

we need to start requiring that people have words in their posts because this guy is really fucking annoying and his gifs don't even make any sense.

[jimmay]

we need to start requiring that people have words in their posts because this guy is really fucking annoying and his gifs don't even make any sense.

No need to get jealous brett. We all know you're the gif god.

[garey40]

we need to start requiring that people have words in their posts because this guy is really fucking annoying and his gifs don't even make any sense.
The anger is strong with you. I think the taco was a fine touch.

[brett friggin favre]

Not jealous or angry, just stating the facts. It's annoying

[Meltdown]

Yeah, he never suicides on ZE maps, or goes into spectate on ZM maps before zombies spawn if he can't get to a good spot (a little trick he picked up from me, BTW). No sir.

It doesn't matter how you call it, in the end they all act like kids in the kindergarten,there precious toy being taken away, screaming and crying kicking around for attention on how people are trying to bath mouth them, well people are just pointing out the facts, and deep down there, they know were right.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

It doesn't matter how you call it, in the end they all act like kids in the kindergarten,there precious toy being taken away, screaming and crying kicking around for attention on how people are trying to bath mouth them, well people are just pointing out the facts, and deep down there, they know were right.

Even though it is poorly written. I agree....... To bounce off this statement... some of the admins are no better.... buying admin simply to have "senior" to help facilitate this pathetic need for 3 maps to rank whore on.


Not jealous or angry, just stating the facts. It's annoying

i second this. If i was any wiser, id almost suggest he was attempting to rank manipulate the forum post count on his profile, with shitty memes and gifs.


edit: im aware of "sups" sarcasm in his post............................

edit 2: to help add to this discussion. I do not disagree with abolishing rank, however a better way to abolish this rising conflict would be to target phils idea or even easier, simply make it so that upon suicide, that player loses points equivalent to the points lost by being tagged from the rank just below them. This is a very touchy subject meltdown addresses, however after only a week back in ZM.... i must say.... it is needed. I have never seen so many sac's of crap depraved of obvious rank manipulation. Only thing left after a change like this is for admins to strictly reinforce the no spectate rule.

edit 3: Enforcing the no spectate rule would force players to actually fucking play. Which is why the rule exists in the first fucking place. From this day fourth, any of you motherfuckers that try to circumvent this rule will feel the wrath of dick to china slap.

Edit 4: this slap can be easily upgraded to moon.

[garey40]

Even though it is poorly written. I agree....... To bounce off this statement... some of the admins are no better.... buying admin simply to have "senior" to help facilitate this pathetic need for 3 maps to rank whore on.



i second this. If i was any wiser, id almost suggest he was attempting to rank manipulate the forum post count on his profile, with shitty memes and gifs.

.
You caught me only like 3000 more gifs till im a god.
http://media.giphy.com/media/3i7zenReaUuI0/giphy.gif
They could completely disable my rank in general the fucks given would be 0 good sir.

[Meltdown]

Dyslexia can causes problems in the language department, at least the message got trough. I never had a strong point there, but then again my work is my creativity so i'm happy. Bringing idea's like this up is for a reason, and i know damm pretty well I died too in the past, but not as many as is happening know.

I will gladly accept punishment if I where to die by a fall or something else, I mean it is only a state of the mind to choose the easiest way out, maybe when that option is taken away people will coach each other more to keep themselfs alive.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

I see alot more clan intervention and camaraderie in the server then i did 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure the problems are fixing themselves.

[Meltdown]

I see alot more clan intervention and camaraderie in the server then i did 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure the problems are fixing themselves.

Well then this whole topic wasn't in vain at least.

[$Money$]

I see alot more clan intervention and camaraderie in the server then i did 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure the problems are fixing themselves.

That is keeping a lot of players from spectating but is it doing anything for the suicide problem?

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

That is keeping a lot of players from spectating but is it doing anything for the suicide problem?

Word of mouth and uncertainty spread like wildfire in the ZM server. This is due to the fact that 99% of the players dont even bother looking at these forums. I suspect the mere talk of doing something about this "suicide" problem, got them to cut back. I have noticed it happening blatantly but i would hardly say its a problem in the respect that something needs to be done about it. If a plan like what has been originally suggested fell through... that would be disastrous for everyone, considering alot of the escape maps have some form of mass suicide at the end for either all left alive or the losing team. Perhaps we don't even bother with any sort of rank restructure as 1. it wont happen anytime soon regardless and 2. i don't think it is necessary. Instead, try to gradually change the mind set behind how players play, sorta like what we have been doing with these ZE map days where we play a map for hours trying to beat it, building up on the whole teamwork concept required to actually win half our maps. Kick and remove spectators as they fill up the server then eventually they will either play or leave.

[Meltdown]

Trying to bash trough the mindset was the original idea of this whole topic, I never thought it would be changing in a week or so or even in a month. But the idea it might could put allot of pressure on certain people, which worked in some way, people openly discuss it in game and even point it out when someone does it. Social correction is a start. because no one wants to be the pussy of the server.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Exactly. What is the point of making new rules if players and admins fail to enforce and regulate the ones we already have! Its getting better and it shows. Granted... the occasional moron comes and goes, i dont think we can fix that anyways but for meat, i see change.

[$Money$]

Exactly. What is the point of making new rules if players and admins fail to enforce and regulate the ones we already have! Its getting better and it shows. Granted... the occasional moron comes and goes, i dont think we can fix that anyways but for meat, i see change.
I agree with that 100%. We have been letting too much stuff go and not taking action. Hard to tell players not to do something when (Some) admins do the exact same thing. As for the Kicking Specs, If the server isn't full, I wouldn't do it. I've already tried.

[brett friggin favre]

Zero and steamer have clarified that the kicking specs rule only applies when the server is full

[rdx]

remove the entire ZM stats, so there wouldnt be any problems. if you care about rank so much, you need to reevaluate your life.

[$Money$]

remove the entire ZM stats, so there wouldnt be any problems. if you care about rank so much, you need to reevaluate your life.

that's 1 way to look at it lol

[Meltdown]

remove the entire ZM stats, so there wouldnt be any problems. if you care about rank so much, you need to reevaluate your life.

And it's 100% truth

Racist told me yesterday he doesn't feel productive when he lose points, so meaning he can't do jack unless he plays only sorrento, ice cap, rooftop etc. Because skill he got not and teamwork doesn't exists in his book. :icon_mrgreen:

[rdx]

And it's 100% truth

Racist told me yesterday he doesn't feel productive when he lose points, so meaning he can't do jack unless he plays only sorrento, ice cap, rooftop etc. Because skill he got not and teamwork doesn't exists in his book. :icon_mrgreen:

arent you the one who cares about points more than everyone else? also, arent you the one who created this thread about making this a rule? you sound like a hypocrite to me.

[Meltdown]

arent you the one who cares about points more than everyone else? also, arent you the one who created this thread about making this a rule? you sound like a hypocrite to me.

If I truly would have cared, I would have never let myself fall back to no.2. The only thing I care for is how to troll with the rank, which was funny while it lasted, now fallen 2 is on top and I'm not to bothered. Everyone can be number one, the real difference lies in the other stats.

[rdx]

What did I just read? My IQ just dropped from reading your last post.

[Meltdown]

What did I just read? My IQ just dropped from reading your last post.

http://i.imgur.com/vFkInXp.jpg

[Steamer]

Remove rank.

[Pootie Too Good]

all i see here are rank whores jerking each other off about how much they apparently don't care about rank. If that's true, along with what Brett said about no one ever checking rank other than a certain few, then DELETE THE RANK SYSTEM. The server would play more maps other than fucking beachstrike, high school and desert fortress on the ZM end and sorrento, icecap, moria, and rooftop on ZE. it'd make the server fun for more than a week for those of us who don't care about the rank as much as the fun.

[$Money$]

all i see here are rank whores jerking each other off about how much they apparently don't care about rank. If that's true, along with what Brett said about no one ever checking rank other than a certain few, then DELETE THE RANK SYSTEM. The server would play more maps other than fucking beachstrike, high school and desert fortress on the ZM end and sorrento, icecap, moria, and rooftop on ZE. it'd make the server fun for more than a week for those of us who don't care about the rank as much as the fun.

100% correct. Ive noticed that we gotta play the maps that you can easily kill yourself incase your gonna get tagged.
Sry, had to bump it back up.

[Meltdown]

problem is that a certain few who care raise there voice, those who don't aren't really bothered too. And to be honest I get allot of people telling me I'm 100% right and they all agree with me there just not bothered to really put effort into it. And i don't blame them in the end it is just a game for fun. Also i decided not to care any more, it's not my problem i play when most of the whores are asleep so it wont affect my map routine much.

They majority just shouldn't complain when they play sorrento/rooftop/icecap/moria etc when they don't raise there voice against it, it just such a waste what this server has become, I'm thankful i live in Europe, at least i get to play more maps then the one I listed earlier.