Prison Break Wars (Mafia)

[phil.™]

Yeah, he was claiming my character, I pressed him on it.

Strange how you think I'm likely to die by the mafia, but also likely to be mafia.
Sorry for typo, I'm on phone and driving.

I do not really see this as mafia vs town anymore. More like mafia will turn on each other to throw people off just to win. Could be you, could be wolf, could be kion as well.

[Blackmage]

Phil: Supposing Brett is working with the mafia, what role do you think he has? Is it just a mafia Voyeur? Because Night 1, he visited Mikey. Is it possible he's mafia? Yes. Haywire isn't the safest person to be around. But we know about as much about him as we can. You are still a different story.

As for Wolf, Nem and myself have asked Wolf to claim. Brett brought it up too. Information is why I haven't lynched you. Less important than what wolf can say, however, I want to know how does lawyer work?

At the moment, we have little information to go on. What we do have, so far suggests that you're lying. While we probably could afford a day of no lynching, you have actually given us a useful piece. If you show up as "village Lawyer with bulletproof vest" Brett will most likely be dead tomorrow. So if you are who you say you are, your death will not be in vain. If you're NOT, we're still up one.

[brett friggin favre]

assuming my claim about my observation last night is true, the only way phil's legit is if the mafia has a ninja AND a godfather left, am i correct in that? they would need the ninja so i couldn't see that anything happened to him, and they would need a godfather to send him to try and kill phil.

that would mean the mafia is 4 members: a goon, a roleblocker, a ninja, and a godfather. since it seems the town has no cop (admittedly we should've expected that given the setting of this game), that seems like a lot of mafia firepower to go up against without a cop. i could be wrong, i'm still relatively new to mafia shit and in the games i have played i've been mafia in like 3 out of 5 lol.

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another thing, if phil wasn't mafia, we'd probably have a hammer by now, unless 2 current voters are mafia...which i think is doubtful.

[Nemesis]

So are we stuck because retards won't vote properly? Lion should be mod killed so we can move on.

[kionay]

So are we stuck because retards won't vote properly? Lion should be mod killed so we can move on.

i believe that 'Lion' is the single best typo of any form of my name

i would LOVE to be a lion

rawr! :3

[phil.™]

Hahaha you guys are idiots and really blind sided.

The only reason why I KNOW that Old Bastard was working with someone (nem and/or brett) it's because I am mafia. My real name is John Abruzzi.
Old bastard was not part of my mafia, only What was. When i voted to lynch old bastard, and when it was confirmed dead and a mafia, i KNEW there was another mafia group.

If you guys do vote lynch me, the other mafia group or vig gets a kill at night, leaving the town fucked with a tie, soooo well played nem. Well played with a tie. I see why you kept trying to rush the town to vote for me..

No shit nem was dodging all the calls when people kept saying "what's your role, why haven't you claimed", kept getting others to claim first, he is the other mafia group. Nem, you prob knew there was another mafia group when What got killed night 1 huh? You were confused as I was on day 2... And that's why you've been pressing on me to say my role. You wanted me to say a bs role, and have brett work me out and get the town to lynch me. You two are fucking sneaky bastards, working together. Who's total in your mafia? Just you and old bastard? You got mikey working for you? Or is mikey blind sided by all this?

ORRRR, could it be bm and brett? Because having 2 investigations is kinda bs on town. I don't know who is who, but I do know old bastard was not part of my mafia, and you guys wanna go and lynch me? Assuming there are 2 more mafia, at worst case scenario, if I’m lynched, nem will kill you at night, leaving second town mafia tied instead of having to kill me themselves (which they cannot).

Brett is probably right too. There is a god father, me, but I have a vest? I dunno, maybe to balance out between town and 2 group mafia’s. I’m the god father with vest, What was my role blocker, the other mafia is nem as ninja and old bastard as goon to balance the investigators. That’s the only way it seems legit that I have been attacked and nobody saw it. Unless brett and bm are lying, but seeing they clearly aren’t because I was just caught, but then again, they are being played by nem.. Well played brett lol.

I can only see there being 2 mafias, but if there is a 3rd from the start, tomorrow, town is fucked. You guys let me kill nem the ninja, lynch me tomorrow, and bm or brett, whichever the two of you is the good one, keep an eye on mikey. If he doesn’t move, then he’s the 3rd mafia, and you guys lynch him next day. IF there is a 3rd that is.

If someone says I’m buying time, that’s fucking RIGHT I am buying time. But whats the point of buying time and CONFESSING I am mafia, if I don’t know for sure that there is another mafia and I want to leave that info out there before I get lynched TOMORROW.

Oh.. I should also share this.. In my role text, it said that “Mafia will win when ALL threats to your mafia faction are eliminated”... “YOUR” and “FACTION”… Now re-reading this, I realized cyber sent us that hint from the start because he probably didn’t anticipate so many death day 1? Atleast I would have survived long enough to kill off a fucking other mafia..

[Nemesis]

Phil if tere was another mafia than the town was fucked from the start. That means there is no cop and the numbers favour mafia? Impossible. Also there has been only one kill a night, with two mafias there would be two.

[brett friggin favre]

phil, you can't quote from mod pm's.

also, i've been suspicious of nem from day 1, he's stayed off my vote list because there's always someone else whose shit stinks more than his. today, that's you.

the problem with nem right now is this: if he's lincoln, i can't see him being mafia. i also can't see how nobody else could be lincoln. all that is a bridge we'll cross tomorrow though, we know you're mafia so we have to get rid of you. information is the weapon in this game, and certainty is a nuke. we'd be crazy not to use it.

[phil.™]

phil, you can't quote from mod pm's.

Oops, my apologies, did not know. It's up there though, not editing.

[phil.™]

Phil if tere was another mafia than the town was fucked from the start. That means there is no cop and the numbers favour mafia? Impossible. Also there has been only one kill a night, with two mafias there would be two.

First night, doc was busy with something.. maybe someone from other mafia tried killing someone. And then yesterday, someone tried killing ME... while I was the one who killed aco. So there def is another mafia out there, people just didnt catch on to it, or would even realize it. I just had to see who it was.
And you being a ninja proves my point why you were not detected by brett.
BM, any comments?

[Nemesis]

Lol you're full of shit. We're going to need mod intervention to get the noobs moving.

[Blackmage]

Welp, that rounds out the FR 8, the two non-escapees, and the 4 non-prisoners.

As a note on his claim: it means we had 2 healers, two information gatherers to counter a pair of mini-mafia and a SK. Supposing he's not trolling the town and is mafia, we'll have to decide if he's legit about 2 mafia of two, or if we have 1 mafia of 4. It may just be propaganda to help his final member.

Vote Phil

Only comment I have is, I love your spite. Well, supposing you aren't weaving the strangest tale ever, which would be interesting anyway. So long, and thanks for all the fish! Hope to see most of you tomorrow!

Mikey: Good luck choosing the correct target tonight. You'll probably need it.

[CYBER]

Hammer.

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That's a hammer. Scene coming in a bit. STAY TUNED HERE.



http://i.imgur.com/koVNWJz.png

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"HAHAHAHA you morons! You have been following this guy all along? This guy claims to be Mr. Innocent, claims to framed for murder, and yet claims to be a VIGILANTE? No one questions that by definition he needs to KILL people to prove that he's innocent??"
- Well we got you good Abruzzi, you should have learned from the late Bellick over there that it's sometimes better to speak less than to get caught with poor choice of words...

"Well it's all over now, Michael, you may kill me now, but one day, I will get my revenge... NOW KILL ME! KILL ME. SEE? YOU DONT HAVE THE BAL..."
John Abruzzi, Mafia Godfather, has been shot dead.
- Who...who shot him?
>> Doesn't matter kid brother, it's all over now. Now lead the way out of this shitty ass place, I wan't to finish this game they played already.
And so, with all the obstacle scum being eliminated, and the good guys made it free outside of prison... and onto the next challenge.



TOWN WINS, CONGRATS.

(even though the setup was an easy pro-town one for tutorial purposes)
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Honorary mentions:



Brett for baiting and counter claiming 2 mafia members and showing that you can catch scum by what they post, not just by having powers... (u got that vanilla ppl?)
Phil for identifying a possible doctor in the setup.
Nem for being a dickhead dodging every fucking question at him without anyone batting an eye >_<
Blackmage, using his role to the best and chosing when to disclose information.
Wolf, for trying his fucking best to get lynched/killed before day 3 due to a side bet he made... LAWL.. gg I win wolfie.
And finally , gg for What and Tom, killing off the competition in the fastest way i've ever seen it in mafiawars, and thus fucking up my entire fucking setup and tipping it off for town favor from the start >_< haha.


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GUYS, What has set up another MAFIA game.
WHOEVER WANTS to play again, PLEASE post below, and vote on the POLL ABOVE , which im about to add.
he needs the count so he can make sure the setup works.


i'll also be playing that game, so i'm looking forward to argueing with u guys.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Im in, if its anything like the last game i played with you... nems in for another loss! lmao

[Nemesis]

Im in, if its anything like the last game i played with you... nems in for another loss! lmao

Lol fucking Mexicans.

[What]

I should mention, the game is base on "Supernatural" so if you are familiar with the show, good, if not, netflix it.

[Nemesis]

I feel there are some people who shouldn't be allowed back though. Weren't able to play or keep up at all.

[What]

As I see it, this type of game should not require people to be in the same timezone, work the same hours, etc. But when you do have time, you should check in on it. I believe that Kiony is learning, Lily player, just wasn't around much, and wolf was wolf. Their style may have had to do with their roles as well.

[Wolfenstinger]

I was a sub. I didn't intend to actually "play" because I have other shit going on IRL. Reason why I didn't sign up to begin with, but I can still sub if needed; you're just gonna get something similar.

I got a summer class going on and a job hunt. I also hate staring at my homework but its slowly being done. Sorry for the sudden Day 3 Silence. Was Vanilla Townie in end.

[phil.™]

I'll be down to play again.

[CYBER]

As I see it, this type of game should not require people to be in the same timezone, work the same hours, etc. But when you do have time, you should check in on it. I believe that Kiony is learning, Lily player, just wasn't around much, and wolf was wolf. Their style may have had to do with their roles as well.


as far as i have been getting info, a lot of them werent really AFK btw... lily was around, wolf was around etc...

they just didnt feel like posting when being slammered... so a thought that yes, althought u need to be active, sometimes posting when being called upon is suicide, especialyl when others are more in trouble... like ob's screw over, and phil's countered voyeur claim...etc..



and nem... NO, we should NOT prevent them from playing... they are new, we need to GROW the community, ppl will learn in time how to play best and manage their time, we shouldnt weed them out so early... hell i know a LOT of ppl used to be LESS active than kionay or ob or phil or lily...
and as for wolf, he was asked to fill in at the last second bcos of bestnoob leaving, and i didnt wanna rerun my tests with 1 town missing... so he did me a favor in filling the role, and bet me that he would be lynched nway by day 3... thats why he wasnt rly talking. he was busy.


but yeah. gg all. thank you for playing, it was my pleasure to host this game. and i hope that the next game i host, will also yield a lot of players :)

Now ONTO What's game!!!!! SIGN UP IN POLL!!

i will post the setup that i had for this game along with a commentary after What gets his game organized and started so that i dnt waste his time. ok?

[brett friggin favre]

I'm down to kick ass again

[phil.™]

Sorry for being a noob mafia. Hats off to nem, bm and brett calling me out ASAP.

[CYBER]

I'm down to kick ass again
wp brett. u were by far the MVP of this game... counter claiming 2 mafias by reading their posts only , not pure investigation.

helped me prove that having a cop is nice and all, but not a must to detect scum...


i loved phil's going out with a bang speech... and ob's bomb claim was so fucking ballzy. shame u guys saw through them, but hey, at least he pointed out smthn :
nem played rly scummy as a town this game, and mikey... well was mikey... so im genuinely surprised that you guys kept following nemesis's wagons every time he dodged a question... phil was right about that part being shady as fuck for town... just another reason for ppl to formulate their own opinion, even if wrong, based on what they see, not by being lead blindly...

[Nemesis]

I'm down to kick ass again

You mean get carried.

[brett friggin favre]

wp brett. u were by far the MVP of this game... counter claiming 2 mafias by reading their posts only , not pure investigation.

helped me prove that having a cop is nice and all, but not a must to detect scum...


i loved phil's going out with a bang speech... and ob's bomb claim was so fucking ballzy. shame u guys saw through them, but hey, at least he pointed out smthn :
nem played rly scummy as a town this game, and mikey... well was mikey... so im genuinely surprised that you guys kept following nemesis's wagons every time he dodged a question... phil was right about that part being shady as fuck for town... just another reason for ppl to formulate their own opinion, even if wrong, based on what they see, not by being lead blindly...

like i said, i was suspicious of nem the whole time but there was always someone whose shit stunk worse.

[Nemesis]

No one was doing anything so someone had to hold everyone's hand and guide them along.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

wp brett. u were by far the MVP of this game... counter claiming 2 mafias by reading their posts only , not pure investigation.

helped me prove that having a cop is nice and all, but not a must to detect scum...


i loved phil's going out with a bang speech... and ob's bomb claim was so fucking ballzy. shame u guys saw through them, but hey, at least he pointed out smthn :
nem played rly scummy as a town this game, and mikey... well was mikey... so im genuinely surprised that you guys kept following nemesis's wagons every time he dodged a question... phil was right about that part being shady as fuck for town... just another reason for ppl to formulate their own opinion, even if wrong, based on what they see, not by being lead blindly...


Its a shame that you lack the sufficient brain cells to deduce why what i did this game was critical. Forcing the enemies hand is always in your best interest.

[What]

Its a shame that you lack the sufficient brain cells to deduce why what i did this game was critical. Forcing the enemies hand is always in your best interest.

Except if you are mafia and you force a doctor to claim, that blows for the town.

[Nemesis]

Ya Mikey is always towns worst enemy regardless of what side he's on.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Except if you are mafia and you force a doctor to claim, that blows for the town.

lol but good for mafioso (;

I do however recommend that if you EVEr decide to put a bodyguard into play again, dont pair it with a full doctor.

Nem, my play did not require anyone to claim, only to reveal as much as possible. The purpose was to direct night traffic and force the mafia to make hard choices with what they knew.

[CYBER]

lol but good for mafioso (;

I do however recommend that if you EVEr decide to put a bodyguard into play again, dont pair it with a full doctor.


i know that. and i know about the bodyguard full doctor loop.

i had aco as a weakened doctor, and he was made aware of a mistake that happened when i sent out his role from an older Word version that i sent myself to my other pc... But i vowed as a mod to NEVER alter the setup after it was sent. so i laid low, waiting to see if this loop would happen, and i told aco after he died that if at any time the loop was to happen, i would have had to intervene as mod to break the exploited loop.

His role was Weak doctor, and your bodyguard was a macho bodyguard.

and in the first layout, SK had 2 vests, and old bastard was a mafia NINJA..


the modifiers and "rare roles" were scrapped out at some point while i was reworking the setup to simplify it, and i simply fucked up when sending out roles to use the balanced/loopless version of this. but by trying to make simpler for all, it ended up being pro town after night 1 fucking random shit happened.

and when mafiascum went dead on me... I didn't wanna throw random modifiers around without knowing explicitely what they do... so yeah, i let the game go, and thankfully the loop wasn't exploited and i wasn't force to intervene to disclose the mod typo when sending roles.

[What]

whats the loop? those two protecting eachother constantly?

[CYBER]

whats the loop? those two protecting eachother constantly?
pretty much, and they cna just lynch ppl and not die.

but a roleblocker in the game like u would have broken the loop, so it wasnt a big deal when i ntoiced the typo on day 1.. but after u died in night 1... i was like OH FCUK ME SIDEWAYS ...

and i started watching the thread like a hawk, not wanting to hack the setup, but waiting to see if i had to actually disclose this typo in time for aco and mikey without revealing their role...
cant just walk in and say " yeah u bot claimed right, i need to fix that"... for all u know one of them was lying about their role... so i let the game play itself out, (that's what other modders in mafiascum told me to do based on precedence bcos this shit tends to happen with multiple protection roles around)

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all in all.. it worked out. nothing was hacked, nothing was exploited, and the game went smooothly, u know, considering town had a stronger presence after night 1's fucking fiasco

[What]

too bad mafiascum got wiped off of the internet

[Nemesis]

Ya after all this time it's been up it goes down right after we start.

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I want to ask what everyone thinks about something. I've played several games where the set up is posted at the start. That way there's no worrying about crazy ass roles that stagnates the game. What you think?

[What]

not going to happen

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ruins teh ability to fake claim and think on your feet, you know whats in the game and if x amount of things have already died, its far too easy to deduce what must be left in the game and put people on to their roles

[Old Bastard]

I'm down for another game. Played as good as I could for knowing so little. Walked into an obvious trap and didnt pay attention. Just have to pay better attention to shit.

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Needless to say I kinda wish I had been a bomb so I could go out with a bang. Lol

[What]

Also, The new game will not be Role Maddness, it will still be a game intended to be fun and allow people to learn, but should be a step up from Cyber's settup

[Old Bastard]

So a not-so-newbie Newbie game?

[Nemesis]

When are you looking to start?

[What]

In due time, after people have had some time to filter into the forums/ thread and decided to play. I'm looking for about the same number of players as Cyber's game in order to use what I have set up, but modifications can be made if necessary.

And Jesus, meh, there will still be plenty of VT and the like.

[Nemesis]

Just this weekend I've got a few things plus a Golf tournament. Then I start my new position on Monday and I have no idea how much time I'll have. I'll still be around, just different times and possibly in a different capacity than I am now.

[What]

oh, no, dear god, less Nem on the forums? We will try to soldier on without you.

[Nemesis]

oh, no, dear god, less Nem on the forums? We will try to soldier on without you.

Ya so enjoy your clusterfuck of retards trying to out-lick each others chins until I get back.

[What]

Probably wont get started for a couple days, unless I hit critical mass sooner than expected.

[Nemesis]

So I guess we should ask the new people what they thought and what differences they would like to see. Also since the game is over now is a good time to ask questions since no one can lie to you.

So regardless how how bad you did, what are your thoughts, plebs?

[What]

had i been the godfather, things would have turned out different.

[Nemesis]

you died night 1, what would have been different?

[What]

i would not have died night one, Godfather was made immune to night kills.

[Nemesis]

i would not have died night one, Godfather was made immune to night kills.

Ah ok. That makes sense.

Man, Town got real lucky, I don't think this was Town-sided at all and could have very easily gotten out of hand at the start.

[What]

Yes it did, but with the roleblocker gone, the mafia didnt really stand much of a chance, especially with two protective roles in play

[Nemesis]

Yes it did, but with the roleblocker gone, the mafia didnt really stand much of a chance, especially with two protective roles in play

So who got role-blocked night 1?

[What]

You did. Also an adendum to my last post, in addition to Tom and I dying the town was then up against two people who had not played before and were not certain what moves to pull.

Though Before i died, i told Phil and OB to keep an eye on Aco and Kiony, turns out Aco was doctor, so that was something, Kiony must have just been insane.

[Nemesis]

Ya I didn't shoot anyone all game, just the way things worked out. Aco did a good job of not doing anything while not making it look like he wasn't doing anything, Kioney was just retarded and played poorly.

[What]

given a role, Kiony might have played it differently.

[Old Bastard]

Oh look we have 2 forum dwellers for now, cuz What needs his computer.

[Nemesis]

given a role, Kiony might have played it differently.

Not being interested if you don't get a "good" role isn't really a good strategy. Kinda whiny actually.

[What]

Not being interested if you don't get a "good" role isn't really a good strategy. Kinda whiny actually.

Not saying its a good attitude or a good strategy, but its understandable for a new player if he/she feels like there is not much they can actually do. Being engaged however, makes the game more fun and you can definitely use being a VT to the town's advantage.

Also, Jesus, Shush.

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And im not just dwelling on the forums, im also streaming the first season of Cheers, cause I use my time wisely.

[Lily]

well played all. I had fun playing this game, but won't be playing a next one. Maybe in the future.

Good luck with the next game!

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Aco did a good job of not doing anything while not making it look like he wasn't doing anything

dude, i did stuff. i protected people each night i was alive for.

[Nemesis]

dude, i did stuff. i protected people each night i was alive for.

Which is what you're suppose to do. You did things without being loud about it. Something Mikey, for example, could never accomplish.

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Oh God, Paraselli's in for next game. This kid seems like a total twatwaffle.

[What]

calm yo tits nem

[Nemesis]

calm yo tits nem

Just the Queen of twats, no?

[Blackmage]

And so, welcome to my wall of text end post :)

First, given what Cyber said about this being a learning game, I went in using a lot of metagaming. Figured we'd have the fox river 8, suspected we'd have the extra two, plus Sara and Bellick, and no idea on the last 2. T-Bag and Bellick were auto suspect, Sara, Micheal, Lincoln, and Sucre were good. Some people I could take guesses on roles too. Plus, guessing at the number of VT/Goons. As soon as I got my role, everything started falling in place. I'm curious if all the new players were given the boring roles on purpose, or if the RNG was just feeling spiteful. As for Cyber's "play", just a few bumps, but nothing major, nothing you did changed the gameplay and didn't have to modkill anyone. Thanks for the game Cyber :)

I was mentioning some other ways this game could have gone. Micheal, Lincoln, and someone else as Mafia, everyone else trying to kill them "trying to use their escape plan". Mutliple mafias, options including: T-Bag's group, Cops, Abuzzi's people, C-Note's people, the company. Sara being a far less than perfect doc. Haywire being an insane cop. Bellick being a cop in general. Any one of a number of characters being vengeful. Micheal being Cult leader :)

Here's what I was doing with my play. I started out by trying to feel out the game. Given the quick request for NL, trying to find an acceptable way to get information. Brett was seeming odd, Nem, wolf and Mikey were being themselves, Tom and What were pushing for a lynch and pretty much everyone else was trying to figure out what to do. When that first N-1 vote hit, I had been watching. I was actually risking Irish's life to confirm there was no auto-hammer or double voters. Finding out there were no voting roles was a little more than I expected to get, but what I was expecting in the game. Sadly, Irish was a lost cause due to the deadline, so I had to look at what little I had. Once night hit, it was either follow Brett or What, due to his "safe" N-1 vote, but since Brett was seeming to claim an information role, it wasn't a very hard choice. If he doesn't visit anyone, he's not useful, but might be scum. If he visits a dead person, all hell probably would have broken loose. Luckily, the third option happened, he visited someone who survived.

Day 2 starts, an amazing night ensued. With a power role Mafia dead, a 3rd party dead, there probably wasn't another powered Mafia, only a passive (Ninja, Godfather, bulletproof) or some 1 use item. Worst case, a 1 use day gun, which I'm SO GLAD wasn't in the game. I rushed to get on to make my statement before Brett did, in case he was going to out Mikey as scum, so I could try to get myself clear. That worked better than planned. Mikey claims, so I figure I know who an ally is. Nem starts going heavily dark side, we don't have a cop claim and we do get a couple VT claims. Then OB/Brett happens, we get no cop to come out and say "way too much information" and day 2 ends. I consider following Brett again, but given that wouldn't help, and might look scummy decide to look for new information. I could have visited him and claimed to have visited the dead guy as long as he didn't, but that seem convoluted and silly. I had to choose between Aco, Phil and Nem, so chose Nem because he was the most scummy, and therefore if he did something, the easiest to push.

Day 3 starts, I post my information, again trying to get it out before my target gets any claim out so I can catch them in a lie in this case, and to cause the unclaimed to be wary. Mikey and Nem both ask for me to reveal that information anyway, so I go to sleep to avoid them. I post a little in the morning, staying out of the conversation as much as possible, trying to get as much information out as possible so I can set up on the day 4 lynch. Then the game is over :)

Yes, I went into the game fairly sure of a lot of things, but I'll still be paranoid about things existing till the game's over. Trust nothing and no one. Not even your own scum-mates.

Onto my comments on players.

Tom: You got killed day 1, after trying to be helpful. I hate unprotected SK, but knowing you were made some conclusions easier.

What: Pretty much the same as tom :P Your death confirmed a little more about the game's composition.

Aco: Your doc powers worked perfectly. Day 1 dodged saving scum, Day 2 there was nothing you could do. You hid yourself, and looking back I see what might have been a soft claim that I missed. I quite enjoyed your game even if you didn't seem to do much.

Irish: Wish you'd figured out what to do earlier, I think it would have been interesting. Thanks for playing.

Locust: Wish you hadn't role claimed quite as fast, just flavour. After it was done, it changed my approach a little.

Lily: VT sucks as a role, but thanks for trying. Hope you enjoyed it. I did enjoy when you defended your claim of Maytag, because my first thought when I saw that claim was "is Lily trying to play mind games with us?". I COULD see Maytag being mafia, as Nem did, but because you got a secondary character, you could have easily claimed ANY other secondary jailbird. I figured it was just a strange choice for a VT from Cyber, given the vanilla Mafia was at least a bigshot. Probably would have looked at you come Day 5.

Wolf: Thanks for filling. With phil's goodbye, I was wondering if you were delaying because you were a cop, and Brett was mafia again. Hope you can actually play a game some time in the future :)

Kion: What I said in my last post to you sum up my feelings for that.

Mikey: If I wasn't pretty much sure you were innocent from my pregame mindset, I'd have thought you were either dangerous, or scum. However, I did enjoy your soft claim of bodyguard. When you said that, I was pretty sure we'd have a second non-perfect healer. I did agree with your plan as well. What I didn't like was your talking in general, because it seems like something neither scum NOR town should be doing. You were trying to get people to reveal too much information too easily, which is dangerous for town. I think my problem with you is you trust people in this game, and seem to expect everyone to.

OB: If I wasn't about 99% sure that bomb was a fake claim, that was a BRILLIANT claim. I was trying to figure out if you were actually a Macho Cop or not. Macho cop, being something that actually WORKED for Bellick, if you accept he's good. Even if I could have believed a Bomb claim, I wouldn't have, I would have believed you were trying to fake claim from a Macho Cop. Macho Cop being believable with the game set, working with Bellick. If you WERE a bomb claiming Macho Cop instead makes you a target. As a note, in this case you could have claimed Macho Cop cleared someone you know is clear, so they believe you. Would have also put doubt on that person, moreso if they had claimed VT Day 2. If you hadn't backed into the corner and claimed Haywire, it could have been interesting when you claimed Bellick. Nicely done.

Phil: That last spite post. That was brilliant. I actually was there when you posted it. I delayed hammering because I needed some time to figure out what my plan for day 4 was. In the end, it involved tracking Wolf, if he visited someone who didn't die, out him as the cop and go hard on Brett. Otherwise, try to figure out if Cyber or Nem was dicking with us. With only Lincoln left, it was possible he was really Lincoln, and Cyber was messing with us, or Nem made an educated guess when you didn't just claim Lincoln. Lincoln being mafia would have been a neat twist, and would have been a more clear teaching role to show, don't trust WIFOM. Only problem I saw with your scenario was with Godfather, one mafia has 2 power roles, one only had 1. If you'd have claimed to be working with OB, it would have been more believable. Doesn't matter given there wasn't another but just my observation, and like I said, even so, I took 45 minutes deciding what to do. That lawyer claim wasn't so great, probably should have gone for, again, macho cop :P Macho means you DON'T claim early, and cop would have thrown suspicion on Brett, and again, it worked with your claim of Veronica.

Brett: After day 1, I wasn't sure if you were trying to hurt the town with the NL, or were trying to soft claim information role. I'm VERY wary of someone asking for information who suggest NL. So I followed you. Turned out to work perfectly in the end. You made day 2 golden. We watch 2 scum off each other, I make a vague claim with my role claim, and I read your reply as "yes, I know you followed me, I'm pretty much what you think". Not sure why I was still expecting a cop and not a watcher/voyeur, but it certainly made everything drop in place, and made life easier. Your push on OB day 2 was nicely done as well. Day 3, after Nem's push for everyone to claim except him, I didn't feel like fighting with him, so I was happy when you posted exactly what I was feeling. I figured if I died night 3, either you were mafia, or you'd take us to victory. Great game sir, I agree with Cyber's MVP claim for you.

Nem: I didn't really realize how much your game bothered me till I started typing. You get a paper! TL;DR: You were more scummy than Mikey was, and did (basically?) nothing helpful that entire game. Shooting the Nexus and hitting a scum isn't useful, nor is trusting a known insane cop, even if it comes up with a good result.

After some nonsense, you start talking as if their is an encrypter, and suggesting people were telling new players to play poorly. Your first vote was either a joke vote or a serious vote based upon WIFOM. I was leaning towards the latter with your pushing it with no one asking. Once voting for Irish started, other than you being your normal brash self, nothing really to point at, due to an unfortunate combination of deadline and new player. I wonder how things would have played out without the deadline. It does go to show what I meant about deadlines only helping the mafia, however.

Day two starts with you making a claim that is patently wrong (always have standard ANYTHING). Heck, Cyber mentioned he was supposed to be weak, not standard. You then make a comment I forgot about, saying you acknowledge that 9-4-1 was possible. You pushed for someone to claim Micheal or Sucre, which I was wondering if that was a suggestion to your allies. Then, you start directing all discussion away from you. You then threaten one of the only people I currently trust (somewhat), Brett. After your little overnight, you go silent for over 24 hours, which you've been complaining THE ENTIRE TIME about other people doing, come back and say "we're done getting information", proceeding to lay out a plan that has two results. One involves OB having lied about his second claim, which means all sorts of bad things are happening, but you ignore that fact, the second which involves threatening the player who outed him as scum and threatening an unspecified number of people. Just Mikey, it turns out. And then declaring yourself correct with nothing to back yourself up. Then, the mafia that dies? Just a goon, not a power role, which is the perfect person to bus. So night 2, I followed you.

Day 3 starts, you list 4 people who you want to claim, even though I have a list that clearly lists one of them as fully claimed, and ignoring the two people who are FULLY unclaimed, you being one of them. Proving you don't pay attention, you suggest I can clear someone, something I've said I CAN'T do, threatening anyone who disagrees with you, and setting a deadline for the unclaimed people. Which again means rushing the town and not bothering to get as much information as we can. I post, and you immediately responding doing two more things. First, saying yesterday's great plan you had no longer counts, and we SHOULDN'T follow through. Second, pushing for information that you think might clear you and in no way helps the town. I decide to not reply till the morning and let more people talk as a result before justifying myself. Once I do that, you're suddenly agreeing with me, and generally trying to get on my good side. You've decided that it is only one more mafia, the only new information since last night being that had a Goon. You quickly vote for Lily based upon a claimed flavour. Then, you begin the push of "everyone but me CLAIM".

So, let's recap what you've done this game. Pushed to get a VT lynched, pushed to deny the town information, ignored any requests for information on you, kept threatening people, and going back on what you said, joined a vote that was on an outed scum who happened to be a throwaway mafia. You also were showing no strong conviction in that vote. Now you're saying we NEED to lynch Lily AND demanding that Phil must claim. You follow up on saying Phil would be scum for doing things you were doing right then. Phil soft claims, you ignore that and continue to press, he flavour claims, you IGNORE IT AGAIN, and, having totally given up on the person we NEEDED to lynch, vote for phil. Kion and Brett are still pushing for information from you, which you continue to brush aside. You continue to say "what I'm doing is exactly what scum would do." You eventually claim Linc. All your claim of Lincoln did was make me think you were Abbuci and for some reason Lincoln wasn't in the game. Notice, you FINALLY claimed after everyone else had flavour claimed and all but two of the FR 8 had been claimed, and except for Maytag, the misc characters all made sense. I only posted that your claim made sense to try to make you think I trusted you so you wouldn't shoot me overnight. Phil finally full claims, and suddenly you're back to possible 2 mafia left, declaring you'll be killing someone. You insult Kion when he tries to vote you, which is an entirely reasonable plan. You complain that you aren't getting your way and ask for a possible VT to be mod killed. I never shared that I followed you that night because I sure as hell didn't trust you, and figured you were either a ninja, or just had Phil do the dirty work last night.

I can sum up what I saw you do for the town in one word: nothing. You were less than worthless. You may have gotten multiple people to not rejoin us, and are actively still pushing for that, when we don't have enough players to begin with. You were playing scum from the first day. I was only certain you weren't scum after the game ended. You kept trying to force people to give information while purposely giving none of your own. You could have easily at the start of day 3 flavour claimed Lincoln, but no, you have to wait until you have free reign to claim. You kept flat out saying you were scum over and over again. You couldn't keep your story straight. You were ignoring everyone. You demanded that everyone follow someone who wasn't cleared. You used so much WIFOM that you put mine to shame. What exactly did you do positive for the town? Even your pushing of Phil had been suggested beforehand, one of the first things I said Day 3 was we might want to mass claim.

[Nemesis]

I'm not quoting you but I can see you're problem, You put way too much emphasis on what players do, rather than what they say.

Vigilante isn't good for much at the beginning of the game because just shooting people is detrimental, obviously. So the best bet to pick as many fights as you can to both see how they respond and who defends who. The game started with no one doing anything, in fact I seemed to have to push everyone along constantly. It's not how I really wanted to play but whenever I didn't post no one said anything. Hell, on day 2 everyone should have jumped on OB for lying and doing such a poor job at it, but no one did. I waited to give someone else the chance to step up and everyone just sat there until I posted.

Also late day two I knew Phil was scum and could confirm it in day three, however day two I was really hoping to get targeted by the Mafia since you were going to follow me (I confess I did confuse you and Brett on which was which, and with the site being down I couldn't check). Whether I got a hug or not would have shown a lot as well.

I feel that too much is given in the summery write ups but I guess that could be used to someone's advantage. The issue I had at the start of day two was in all previous games I've played the mod stating a character was "busy" means they were role-blocked, where the issue was that Cyber wrote that the doc was busy, and therefore just confirmed to the mafia that What had hit the doc and assuming everyone knew each others actions would have been a big misstep, but it worked out to just being Cyber's style (like pointing out What as mafia in the first day that multiple people picked up on but was just a coincidence)

Once a VT has claimed their usefulness drops to basically being an easy lynch since it's a clear shot to not hit something useful.

God, you know you're just making a lot of bad calls it's too much to go through. You're very short-sighted, unfortunately, and it shows. You miss a lot and luckily you had Brett and also that I was able to clear you.

The new people who did nothing at sat there for a week are players we don't want back. Fuck, we said many times to ask for help and to ask questions. the fact that they didn't is obvious. we also knew from the start that they were VTs with the odd chance of one of them included in the mafia.

You play much too passively which is often the reason you need to be carried through these games. Fuck.

[CYBER]

The bottom line we can get from this game is that the setup was intentionally made for tutorial purposes to ENCOURAGE discussion (hence the multiple "Weak" investigation roles, instead of 1 solid cop).
Everyone has their own play style, and as a player, sometimes you need to understand that someone who is active all the time and leading you doesn't always make you a good guy. (hint hint. nemesis). he MIGHT be right, but you always need to formulate your own opinion of the game or try to do some guess work and weed out the impossibilities, like blackmage did.
Blackmage second guessing nemesis is perfectly fine due to how they played, and in fact, i admit that town was CONSIDERABLY strong AFTER night 1.

I started out with a list of roles that had modifiers :
- Aco was WEAK doc
- mikey was MACHO bodyguard.
- Nemesis had 3-shot vigilate.
- Tom had 2 vests serial killer.
- and Old bastard was gonna be BELLICK GUARD THE JAIL KEEPER (lawl), while T-bag Phil was gonna be Ninja Mafia (you know, to balance the other 2 investigation roles.) and What was the godfather (i just noticed again that i always write fucking "What" with a cap -.- just fyi...).
- A couple roles were more randomized btw, CLEARLY you guys saw that my "friends" or "veterans" had power roles this game (except locust, blow me :D), but at first when i randomized it, fucking BEST NOOB was the voyeur, lily was a vigilante, and blackmage was a doctor again... that's how it started, but i realized that if any of the NEW PLAYERS left the game or became inactive, i'd be fucking over town discussions, or not knowing when to claim or soft claim... and considering this game was meant to be a TUTORIAL, not a real "play to win" game, i re-arranged the roles a BIT to give power roles to people who weren't gonna disappear....

Can you imagine this game if lily had been the vig, or bestnoob leaving the game as voyeur (hence why i said FUCK I GOTTA RE ARRANGE SHIT , like nem pointed out), etc? it wouldnt have been discussion-full. which is the sole purpose of this game: get people active and talking.

However, BECAUSE i promised a SIMPLE game, i went overboard with shaving off as many "extra words" as possible from characters and almost created a fucking loop by accident (that's a bump right there lol), but i handled that by waiting the game to play out instead of fucking up the setup. I learned from my mistakes as a mod before :)

- also nemesis, mafiascum was down RIGHT after the game started... that fucked me over bcos i had to google cache EVERYTHING asked of me so that i avoid conflicting answers, SEE THIS for YOUR question about bodyguard returning fire or not: (http://i.imgur.com/eTT60oY.png) And you can clearly see i noted to myself to mention the possible circular protection that i noticed A LONG TIME ago in the setup, right after i sent out the roles btw... by accidentally sending off shaved off setup that i was test running at the time, before i notice the loop.

That being said, everyone has their game style, and it was a pleasure for me to make an EASY game for tutorial purposes,,, but beware : THE NEXT FUCKING GAME I MAKE WILL BE MORE CONVOLUTED... i promise you that. So suck on my dick and hope for the best next time haha :D


-----------------

here is a list of the NIGHT actions, which also subtly explains the setup i had:


NIGHT 1:

http://i.imgur.com/s9FnThZ.png


NIGHT 2:


http://i.imgur.com/7p33auw.png




WHAT IS HILARIOUS is that town could have easily fucked itself over:

Had mikey protected tom or What this game on N1, while Bllackmage tracked Brett, and Brett visited MIKEY... OH bOY... all hell would have broken loose on day 2 when mikey would have been found dead by protection. Or if nemesis kill mikey, which is always possible lol... i never thought that What and tom would go after eachother like that from the start... i should have remembered the bad blood between them from the scrim days lol...

If NEMESIS killed someone night 2, while blackmage targetted him ... there was ANOTHER FOS from blackmage on nemesis there. and assuming brett wasn't lynched on day1 bcos of bm, he'd also be questionned for killing off a voyeur, and old bastard and phil wouldnt have been baited by the deceased brett lol... etc... there's a LOT that could have happened where town could have been confused as fuck... that's what happened in my 15 trials of the game: town had 45% chance to win, and mafia had 40-45% chance to win, with SK having about 10-15% chance depending on a couple variations with modifiers...

So yeah night 1 COMPLETELY tipped over the game to town side by PURE LUCK lawl... usually mafia and sk have their way with town until at least day 3 where ppl start questioning wtf is happening... this was a rare case to have town on the roll from the start, unlike all games we played so far.


GG and wp all... hope to argue with u in the next game :)

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lol btw BLACKMAGE and brett... NOW you can see why i forgot to fucking send you guys your results when i posted the night scene 2... i forgot to put a reminder to myself -.-
< - idiot

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And What told me has planning on roleblocking TOM and killing NEMESIS... can you imagine what would have happened if he made that decision instead of vice versa?
tom would have been blocked and serial killer would be alive, What would have been ALIVE from that, and nemesis would have been dead from the start...
A COMPLETELY different game that is lead by someone other than nemesis lol...

it all came down to ONE action at night 1, that tipped off teh entire game... just saying, everything and anything can happen

[Nemesis]

Cyber, if Tom had vests why did he die?

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Also, the game being thrown off balance night one isn't the mod's fault, it was quite a bit of luck and the game itself was set up very hard for the town to win.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, if I targeted anyone it would have been Old Bastard just because I don't like him so it would have probably been ok.

[CYBER]

Cyber, if Tom had vests why did he die?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the game being thrown off balance night one isn't the mod's fault, it was quite a bit of luck and the game itself was set up very hard for the town to win.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, if I targeted anyone it would have been Old Bastard just because I don't like him so it would have probably been ok.


tom didn't have a vest. he ORIGINALLY had a vest in my FIRST draft of the setup, before i shaved off ALLLLLLLL modifiers in the game, whether x-shot kills/vests etc, or modifiers like "weak, macho etc" ... so that i try to simplify the game terms for the new playerrs...


now that they learned a couple new words and modifiers and possible roles from blackmage and mikey throwing words like "ninja, bomb, 50 50 , weak, etc..." the next game that What makes might be a tad more "involved (to avoid saying complex)" with the roles and tweaks.

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ALL in all... i would like to ask the veterans AND the new players.. what did you think of THIS tutorial game modded by ol' Cybie?
be honest.

[Nemesis]

Other than all the PMSing it wasn't bad. Inactive and bad players ruin it despite Blackmage's bleeding heart, but hopefully next game has people who want to play.

[Blackmage]

My comments on it as a tutorial game:

From a tutorial design standpoint, I disagree with the choice to give them little to no power over the game. Even if it ended poorly, remember, the objective wasn't to have someone win, it was to teach new players :) It also would have probably kept their attention better, knowing that they had to make choices. Granted, it could have been the wrong choice, such as revealing too early, but seeing only people who have their own ideas of what is right, such as not shooting with the vig, only shows them how someone else would play, and they can do that easily enough with google.

Making the town strong was a good choice for demonstration purposes, because it meant we could afford to make a few mistakes, which is another reason for the above.

This is personal taste, but I dislike unmodified SK. Given the lack of the cop, it was possible to choose someone like a survivor, because there is no one to reveal he's not "town". Having a third party was a good idea though.

I did love showing that "No Cop" is an option, and hope people can extrapolate from that. Which gives me another idea.

I hate strict deadlines with a passion. When you have votes that happen because of a deadline, and not because of something in game, you lose a lot. It's a factor that helps the mafia, but I understand that they can be useful to stop never ending turns. One problem is there is NO fair way to deal with no lynch at deadlines, so you're forced to choose an arbitrary method. The deadline in this one was worse than normal, because it forced a sink or swim method, and didn't help people learn how D1 is supposed to work. What we DID show them is a policy lynch.

To clarify for anyone not in the know, a policy lynch is where you lynch someone, not for being particularly scummy, but because they hurt the town. In this game, it started as a policy lynch for general uselessness, then became a "random lynch could be MUCH worse". Policy lynching is usually a bad choice, actively going for the win is better than just trying to not lose.

Sadly, ending as it did failed to let us show off the interesting part of mafia, where you actually use the information you have rather than getting lucky with bad role claims. Granted, that was also a limitation of the setting. Here, like I said, there were around 8 to 12 expected people. Almost anyone else would be hard pressed to find a character they could fake claim AND have a role more interesting than VT AND not just look like scum. Compare that with something like WCS which had 30ish roles and no preconceptions, or Roman which had nigh infinite. Or you could go with the C9 and have generic names that give nothing really away. The travesty that was Space had flavour that meant you could fake claim something that sounded believable with a random name. Speaking of which, I need to message What.

Contrary to Nem's belief, I do agree that inactive and bad players can ruin the game. It's a good thing we actually had everyone active, and most of our bad plays were made by the veterans.. Granted we did have some new players, but compare it with the C9 or WCS game. Not bad for some people thrown into a game they knew little to nothing about. I'm also fairly sure showing them that AFK people are detrimental wasn't really necessary anyway, so I'm not sure why Nem brought it up.

[Nemesis]

My comments on it as a tutorial game:

From a tutorial design standpoint, I disagree with the choice to give them little to no power over the game. Even if it ended poorly, remember, the objective wasn't to have someone win, it was to teach new players :) It also would have probably kept their attention better, knowing that they had to make choices. Granted, it could have been the wrong choice, such as revealing too early, but seeing only people who have their own ideas of what is right, such as not shooting with the vig, only shows them how someone else would play, and they can do that easily enough with google.


I agree with this but I also feel like the new people didn't even make an effort to play the game, with the exception of Old Bastard. They just kind of sat there and at that point it becomes a game of 5 people out of 14, like we had.

[kionay]

Kiony


Kioney

surely my name isn't that hard?


anyway, if it's a supernatural themed one i'm all the fuck about that

been binge watching it the past month on netflix

[Lily]

I enjoyed playing the game. Its different form all the other games I normally play. It was a welcoming difference :)

Yes, i admit, it is hard for a new player, but by reading and reasoning, it gets more clearer every time. I would play again, just not any time soon, cos i have too much life changing things at this moment. Kinda had already, which was one of the reason i didnt post as much as i wanted. My apologies for that.

[SCRIBBLE]

Things have calmed down so I am in for the next game.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i'm down for the next one.

[What]

Based on some people's schedule, we will plan to go live on Monday evening, and these sign ups will remain open until then. No reason to start only to have a couple people MIA right off the bat.

[Sin]

Put me in coach.

[Stan]

uhhh i'm in

[BladeTwinSwords]

I'm game. Feels a lot different from webcam style but why not.

[phil.™]

So what is the count as of now?
Again, I'm in.

[What]

Well, I'm not mathmagician but 10 vets plus 5 newbs would make 15. This is perfect for my current settup, but i can easily add some more if we garner some more interest over the weekend, again we start on monday evening, which is my evening which is west coast, so no later than 8 pm West coast time monday.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

since it seems as though these (mafia games) might become a thing now, would it be worthwhile to ask zero to make a subsection on the forums for them?

keeps everything together and easy to find, including easy archiving of old games.

[CYBER]

I have already contacted zero about this so that I can mod a section freely without having to bother clan every time someone edits a post or someone needs a spankin...

in order to keep forums clean and organized and for people to keep track of their games easier.

he said to pm him about it :D fingers crossed :D

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

I have already contacted zero about this so that I can mod a section freely without having to bother clan every time someone edits a post or someone needs a spankin...

in order to keep forums clean and organized and for people to keep track of their games easier.

he said to pm him about it :D fingers crossed :D


yea about that... until this happens. Try not to contact maynard. kthx

in regards to having out own section, it would also allow us to set up official rules, rules the clarify that alot of this is in the realm of roleplaying and that some things said may not be actual personal attacks.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

yea about that... until this happens. Try not to contact maynard. kthx

in regards to having out own section, it would also allow us to set up official rules, rules the clarify that alot of this is in the realm of roleplaying and that some things said may not be actual personal attacks.

did maymay make you his chief of staff or something?

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

did maymay make you his chief of staff or something?

no, the opposite. He is bound to ruin these games. Id like our own section with our own rules to circumvent his reign. If that cant happen, id be more then willing to accommodate per my dime.
If i am not mistaken, just about ever game we have played.. he has intervened and threated to close the thread because roleplaying is not comprehensible.

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im pretty sure at one point, repremends were warnded for people double posting... given the "dont edit posts" rule...

[acolyte_to_jippity]

no, the opposite. He is bound to ruin these games. Id like our own section with our own rules to circumvent his reign. If that cant happen, id be more then willing to accommodate per my dime.
If i am not mistaken, just about ever game we have played.. he has intervened and threated to close the thread because roleplaying is not comprehensible.

- - - Updated - - -

im pretty sure at one point, repremends were warnded for people double posting... given the "dont edit posts" rule...

the double-post thing was a misunderstanding. and each time he's stepped in it has been needed otherwise. mostly because stupid little tards like nem can't manage to play a forum game without resorting to personal attacks against peoples' families. there's a difference between roleplaying, and being a cunt. people often have trouble understanding this around here.

[Old Bastard]

the double-post thing was a misunderstanding. and each time he's stepped in it has been needed otherwise. mostly because stupid little tards like nem can't manage to play a forum game without resorting to personal attacks against peoples' families. there's a difference between roleplaying, and being a cunt. people often have trouble understanding this around here.

#Like :wtg:

[What]

I will post the real thread within an hour, then I will begin sending out roles to people, the goal is to start tomorrow evening so hopefully we can get everyone confirmed by then. We have 15 good people going into this one so it should be fun. This thread can be closed.