Absolution <ibis.a> | 01-13-15

[sup]

Admin's INGAME name: Absolution
Your INGAME name: Racist
Server: ZM
Map: ze_rooftop_runaway2_v4; ze_shaun_of_the_dead_b3
Date & Time: 01-13-15; around 6pm CST

How did he/she abuse (See TOS): assumed seniority despite having lost it after going afk; changed map repeatedly.

Proof:

First demo, rooftop runaway, tickmark 20700 mark: in chat, console log: "[AFK Manager] Absolution <ibis.a> was moved to spectate for being AFK too long." At this point he has been sitting in spectate for at least 10 minutes (all of current map plus approximately 5 minutes of prior map) and clearly loses any claim to senior admin because the AFK manager only posts that warning after a period of 5 idle minutes. Eventually I change to jurassic park story, which he comes back for; at no point do I leave the server or even go spectate once. Demo of JP not included but will be provided at request.

Second demo, shaun of the dead, very end of demo (roughly 6000 tickmark): Absolution changes map to desert fortress. I, as rightful senior admin, change back to shaun of the dead. He continues to defy my proper seniority and change back again twice more before I contact clan for advice. Please do something about this fool, he pulls this kind of shit all the time, sitting in spec, going idle, then coming back and pretending his 3-hour connection time makes him senior despite clearly having been afk.

Edit: one more piece of pertinent information. When Cyber comes in later on Desert Fortress to settle the dispute, Absolution claims that he never went idle, was simply in spectate during Rooftop, actively watching. The fact that AFK Manager moved him to spectate CLEARLY proves that this was a blatant lie to a clan member. Please consider that fact when determining the outcome of this.

[$Money$]

Did you try to contact him mic/chat before changing maps?
I just hope when you guys were talking shit to each other it was in admin chat and not were everyone could read or hear.

[sup]

Yes you do lose seniority if you're afk, but did you try to contact him mic/chat before changing maps?

I'm not sure why I should have to if the AFK Manager has provided absolute, incontrovertible proof that he has been idle for a period of 5 minutes, which is the amount of time an admin can go idle before losing seniority.

[Steamer]

Truth. ^
Minor abuse.

[maynard]

sooo... did I Miss something? cause I don't recall ever in the history of ibis where an admin loses his seniority if he goes afk for a short bit and I'll include 10-15 minutes within that time frame... having a cig and making another drink easily eat up that time. am I missing something here?

generally between admins who don't have a rival and hate each other... if an admin is gone for a bit in AFK, the next in line will assume seniority and once the other admin returns give it up. Obviously you can't just stay in spec forever and keep it... but 10-15 min when you're investing hours of game play is kind of a joke.

if the rules have some how changed without my knowledge please show me the new rule.


been idle for a period of 5 minutes, which is the amount of time an admin can go idle before losing seniority.


again.. where in the ibis rules does it claim this?

[Steamer]

He was afk longer, did you watch demo? It was at least the 10 minutes by rough count.

[sup]

He was also idle for the last 5 or so minutes of the last map before that (Voodoo).

As for the 5 minute rule: this is the rule I've been told by clan for as long as I can remember. 5 minutes makes sense because that's the amount of time before the AFK manager plugin will move a player into spectate (or kick unless they have a reserved slot).

[maynard]

so we don't allow people to go take a shit, make a drink or have a smoke without impacting senior admin anymore? seriously... am I missing something, cause unless zero made a new rule, he didn't abuse shit. this is simply racist pissed at him for the prior shit and trying to get him for anything he can. there's nothing wrong with an admin taking a short break to do RL shit.. never has been. if there's a new rule, please let me know of it otherwise he did nothing wrong by literally zero's own standards he set.

- - - Updated - - -


He was also idle for the last 5 or so minutes of the last map before that (Voodoo).

As for the 5 minute rule: this is the rule I've been told by clan for as long as I can remember. 5 minutes makes sense because that's the amount of time before the AFK manager plugin will move a player into spectate (or kick unless they have a reserved slot).



well I was personally told by zero a very diff timeline back in the day. this isn't a MMORPG... people have lifes, have bowels, smoke, drink, and sometimes get a phone call. to say "oh you were inactive for 5 minutes" but played the last hour or more and lose seniority is a joke.

[sup]

I can't speak for what the rule was back in the day. All I know is that admins have been held to the 5 minute rule for far longer than I've been admin.

[$Money$]

I knew you couldn't lose it after 5 or 10 mins
ok way too many ppl commenting now, im done.


http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/10585-AFK-admin-map-changing-rules-who-is-senor/page2?highlight=senior+admin

hit esc, right click the server in the server list, click server info and it will display whose in there and how long they have been.

if the senior admin goes into spec and is afk for 15 min, feel free 2 make a map change provided you're the next person in line who would receive senior admin.

[Steamer]

The rule is 10 to 15. I do not remember if warning is necessary. We should write this shit into rules....
As it stands, it was at least 10 afk. This is petty.

[swagbot 9k]

so we don't allow people to go take a shit, make a drink or have a smoke without impacting senior admin anymore? seriously... am I missing something, cause unless zero made a new rule, he didn't abuse shit. this is simply racist pissed at him for the prior shit and trying to get him for anything he can. there's nothing wrong with an admin taking a short break to do RL shit.. never has been. if there's a new rule, please let me know of it otherwise he did nothing wrong by literally zero's own standards he set.

- - - Updated - - -





well I was personally told by zero a very diff timeline back in the day. this isn't a MMORPG... people have lifes, have bowels, smoke, drink, and sometimes get a phone call. to say "oh you were inactive for 5 minutes" but played the last hour or more and lose seniority is a joke.

While the 5 minutes does seem short, fixin a plate for dinner can easily take that much time, I have seen Absolution take the seniority claim as soon as the AFK manager puts the senior admin into spectate. Sadly with no proof though.

There is a hated rivalry here but it isn't just racist. A lot of regulars and admins have had it with his combative responses and quick to insult when proven wrong. Now I know, me saying this is kettle meeting pot but it should show something. If I make a mistake or in fact cause something directly, I will own up too it. This child here does nothing but shit on others and cry like a 10 year old.

[maynard]

I knew you couldn't lose it after 5 or 10 mins

cause you can't, nor ever have been. admins often make their own rules. that doesn't make them real, official or nonfiction....

[sup]

So how long can you sit in spec and hold senior? An hour? All day?

[maynard]

from zero's mouth. 20/30 minutes. admin does not need to change and dictate every single map. map changes should be used sparingly as the rules clearly dictate. this insanely short timeline is complete random and new news to me.

[swagbot 9k]

from zero's mouth. 20/30 minutes. admin does not need to change and dictate every single map. map changes should be used sparingly as the rules clearly dictate. this insanely short timeline is complete random and new news to me.

Well the short time is probably because Absolution loves to choose shitty maps that no one likes (atix, rooftop, etc) and while rtv is in effect, it rarely gets the votes it needs.

[maynard]

look... you don't like him... racist sure as shit doesn't and that's all I see going on here. you're obviously allowed to have your own opinions of people as is racist. but I see an attack on him from racist for the shit he put him through recently and that's it... I also see him having broken zero rules. as i said.. if some new rule exists that blows what I'm saying out of the water please inform me and ill eat my hat. but saying he lost senior for being afk for 10 min or whatever short ass term racist claimed is a complete joke. the average map lasts what? 10-20 min depending on things... and admins should not be changing each and every single map.... there is zero validity to this claim.

and what steamer said is exactly correct.. this is petty. and it's only petty cause one admin hates the other and is doing anything he can to get back at him. In normal situations where admins act like adults they don't look for minutes and or any reason to jump down another admins throat. this shit is personal.. that's it.

[sup]

A small update, I watched my demos again: Absolution was afk, with no signs of life whatsoever, for the entire map duration on Rooftop (15 minutes), plus about the first 2 minutes of Jurassic, plus (as I said originally) the last 5 of Voodoo. That adds up to over 20 minutes. Would you say that's long enough to count here? Don't you think it's kind of absurd for an admin on a busy server with many other admins to simply disappear for 20 minutes, then come back and claim seniority even though there are other active admins on? It's bullshit. And I'm not posting this to hash out some kind of personal dispute. This is an asshole who regularly sits in spec for long stretches of time (often much longer than the 20 minutes here), regardless of the number of players and admins on, then returns and worms his way back into the top of the seniority chain even though he should be at the very fucking bottom.

[FearLess]

TL;DR.....all i know is that this is getting way too personal. Really senior admin??? OMG grow the fuck up and learn to co-play, im done with this crap.

[BladeTwinSwords]

The issue is that almost all of the ZM admins have different favorite maps. Once they get senior admin, they tend to pick only maps they like and other admins hate.

Take Racist and his large love for Ice Hold.

[sup]

Both of the maps I changed to while senior (and before this bullshit went down) were voted for by the players and were ones that I hadn't played in weeks. Most of the admins, myself included, are pretty good about letting people pick the maps they want to play.

[CYBER]

When i joined in, my line of questioning was:
1- Absolution's record (joined 3h ago) states to be in the server longer than Racist (1h ago).
2- Assumed no one banned the other based on the fact that scribble told me about those 2, and that if a kick or ban was involved he would have settled it with an admin abuse immediately from 1 admin onto another.
3- I specifically asked abso if he afk'd. He replied that he went to spec for 5 mins and by the time he came back racist had already switched the map.
4- I then ask Racist if he did his due diligences of CONTACTING the afk admin before swapping the map. He replied with No. He did not write the afk admin in spec if the admin is truly afk, or back or anything.

So I rewarded absolution with seniority because with the info I had at the time, it was possible for all we know that abso was in spec watching someone or simply had to take a goddamn dump, and Racist took seniority without following a friendly protocol of asking the other admin in spec... (note: this is a Gentlemen's agreement.)

I have to check the demo to see how long he was afk, but based on the info I had at hand at the time, racist's approach looked like a "oh he afk'd just now? ima jack his senior admin fast before he comes back and not even ask him"... which seemed unethical at the time.

Think of it this way, if you went to spec to spectate a player for example, and someone didnt even bother writing u (not even privately) to ask if u are afk without you revealing urself to be watching, and then proceeded in swapping the map on you, how would you feel?

tl;dr:
Fucking ZMod.
Stop acting like fucking kids over seniority, it's a privilege and common courtesy system among admins... Argueing PUBLICLY in the server over such a technicaly scenario (borderline set up btw...) and making ibis look like it has crappy admins that cant work together... Good job guys. Good job.

- - - Updated - - -

1 last thought:
Abso has been in the server at the time for exactly 3 hours and 37 minutes (checked server log).

A 5 minute break to take a piss or cig or drink or internet dc compared to that amount of time ACTIVE on the server?
Just feels like someone was too hasty to jack seniority instead of working with the other admin and requesting nicely to change the map to freshen up the pace.

[sup]

3- I specifically asked abso if he afk'd. He replied that he went to spec for 5 mins and by the time he came back racist had already switched the map.

He blatantly lied to you on this point. There's no other way to put it. He was idle for most of the final round of Voodoo (it's a bigger demo than the forum will allow for an attachment but I'll happily upload it to an external file upload site upon request), the entirety of rooftop (15 minutes), and a few minutes of JP (after which he did come back for the first time in almost half an hour).


I have to check the demo to see how long he was afk, but based on the info I had at hand at the time, racist's approach looked like a "oh he afk'd just now? ima jack his senior admin fast before he comes back and not even ask him"... which seemed unethical at the time.

I can see why it would seem like that to you at the time, based on incomplete information (and Absolution's intentionally deceiving you), but the totality of the demo evidence shows that he was simply not there at all for an extended period of time and as the only other admin on I rightfully took senior. No "jacking" his senior. I'm fair about this stuff and I expect to be treated fairly in return.


Abso has been in the server at the time for exactly 3 hours and 37 minutes (checked server log).

A 5 minute break to take a piss or cig or drink or internet dc compared to that amount of time ACTIVE on the server?

I'd bet you dollars to dimes that at least 1/3rd of that time was spent idle. Because this is what he does. He sits in spec for long stretches of time and comes back when a map changes to something he wants or when he sees an opportunity to take senior.

[Passarelli]

You guys really need to change those bloody tampons.

[Rapedollar$]

i think we should perma everyone who was involved. Forum ban too.

[brett friggin favre]

i think we should perma everyone who was involved. Forum ban too.

Cyber was involved ;)

[StarsMine]

Cyber was involved ;)

I dont see an issue there.

[Absolution]

so we don't allow people to go take a shit, make a drink or have a smoke without impacting senior admin anymore? seriously... am I missing something, cause unless zero made a new rule, he didn't abuse shit. this is simply racist pissed at him for the prior shit and trying to get him for anything he can. there's nothing wrong with an admin taking a short break to do RL shit.. never has been. if there's a new rule, please let me know of it otherwise he did nothing wrong by literally zero's own standards he set.

- - - Updated - - -





well I was personally told by zero a very diff timeline back in the day. this isn't a MMORPG... people have lifes, have bowels, smoke, drink, and sometimes get a phone call. to say "oh you were inactive for 5 minutes" but played the last hour or more and lose seniority is a joke.

Thank you Maynard. Cyber and Scribble were talking to me when this happened. Cyber came into the server and asked Racist if he asked me if i was afk before "assuming" that i was, and racist admitted that he did not ask me so Cyber said "Absolution is senior". I was on the phone at the time and i really like how you put this Maynard

"well I was personally told by zero a very diff timeline back in the day. this isn't a MMORPG... people have lifes, have bowels, smoke, drink, and sometimes get a phone call. to say "oh you were inactive for 5 minutes" but played the last hour or more and lose seniority is a joke"

I was senior with 3.5 hours roughly at the time and i should be allowed a phone call.... it really is a joke if i cant make a phone call without losing seniority.

[sup]

lmao pretending you have any friends to talk on the phone with

[Steamer]

The time you were senior doesn't matter. After 15 min you are done. People should allow others to take senior and not horde it. This is why I do not even take it. You children can be unbelievable at times.

[maynard]

The time you were senior doesn't matter. After 15 min you are done.

still don't understand where this numerical value is coming from and I've yet to see anyone claim otherwise than what zero personally told me in the past... do so soon or I'm closing this. Christ... even if zero said "hey, ya.. changed the gray areas of the rules regarding this... it wouldn't matter.. this isn't abuse anyway you cut it... it's just a misunderstanding of things.


i think we should perma everyone who was involved. Forum ban too.

+1

[Steamer]

We discussed this round about time long ago and too many times. We have no real rule written, this is as much clans fault as the squabbling admins. How about we close this shit up and actually deal with the issue.

[maynard]

agreed.

no abuse found. will discuss via clan section regarding this issue and how to prevent in the future... keep in mind it's only an issue cause you 2 hate each other... that's fucking it. steamer, hitman, rape, wolf, blade... who the fuck ever, literally any admin could be gone an hour, if they came back id give them senior... but as I said.. this is personal... nothing more nothing less.