Is dropping the bomb in Pub Server #1 against the rules?

[vivid]

I was playing on dust2 and I was going to scout, so I dropped the bomb so I wouldn't be "camping" with the bomb. At first a regular player ran by it an picked it up, then they said something to me that it was against the rules. They then asked an admin and they also said that it was against the rules.

So I looked through the forums, especially the rules but I didn't see it listed. I also didn't read through the 17 pages of that thread. Could someone let me know if it is, and if it is, what is the exact rule?

Normally I would hold on to the bomb, but if I do have a scout or something like that, especially on a map like dust2 with the middle the way it is, I don't see why dropping the bomb is a problem. If it's a rule, I won't do it on the server, just wondering either way.

[-Whitey-]

Dropping the bomb is not against the rules. Completing the objective is what is.
If you are in possession of the bomb or are a remaining CT, complete the objective.

If you dropped the bomb when all of your team is alive, it is with teamwork that they use their eyes to see the bomb dropped on radar.
If you are the last T, you must pick it up.

That would be you completing the objective in this scenario.

[vivid]

That's what I thought, but it was stated to me differently. Thanks for explaining.

[Sensei]

First of all this issue was explained to you. In fact, more than once.. Both by me and Psychedelic on the server. And you actually replied to me with audio and said: "Ok, I understand".. I remember clearly.

So I'll be very straight forward and tell you that what you are trying to do here with this thread very much looks like you are fishing for an angle to actually create a loophole so you can avoid the mission objective while playing in Pub.

Regardless, I'll stay positive and I will take the affirmative once more and explain here again one LAST time..

1- Not every rule has to be in the General Rules Section. Not every rule has to be written. You can follow your common sense. What I mean by this is this:

Pub is a mission-oriented server. Which means both sides has to be "actively pursuing the mission objective". For the map dust2, its planting/defusing the bomb. The game implements a rotation system placing the bomb to a different player every round. This is made on purpose so every player in the game, at some point, start the round carrying the ''responsibility'' of planting.. Right from the start..

So; use your common sense. If you are the one with the bomb at round start, dropping the bomb on purpose is literally AVOIDING the mission objective on purpose.. Simple as that..

Thats actually exactly what you described in your post too.. You just want to have it your way.. This is what you said in short: The map is dust2, I want to scout so I drop the bomb.

The answer is: DON'T.

2- There is a case where you can drop the bomb purposefully. That case being; a teammate asks you for the bomb and you agree to give it.. Other than that, if you are alive, if you start the round with the bomb, pursue the mission objective.

3- I think you misunderstood Whitey's thread or you wanted to.. I suggest you read it again considering the fact that the term "dropping the bomb" is both used in when player dies, he "drops the bomb"; and also while player is alive, he ''drops the bomb'' on purpose.. The former and the latter are completely different things..

When Whitey wrote:
''If you dropped the bomb when all of your team is alive, it is with teamwork that they use their eyes to see the bomb dropped on radar.''
He is referring to the bomb carrier dying and dropping the bomb; and after that point his teammates has to search for it and find it and plant it..
In nowhere of Whitey's reply there is an affirmation to your request of ''DROPPING THE BOMB ON PURPOSE"

Summary:

1-Do not drop the bomb while you are alive.
2-Actively pursue the mission objective when you are playing on Pub.
3-Stop trying to exploit this subject.

As a last personal suggestion; if you want to play on Pub and camp then chose the defending side according to map. Be a CT in defuse maps and be a T in hostage maps. So until the affirmative action is taken by the opposite team, you will have all the time in the world to scout or awp..

Best Regards

[SCRIBBLE]

The bomb is a team objective. You can drop the bomb at the beginning of a round, just make sure someone picks it up. If I choose to use scout, you can guarantee I am going to drop the bomb. Hell, I will drop it in the middle of the round and give it to a shitty that would do better planting than defending.

Sensei, you are wrong.

[swagbot 9k]

Sensei, you are wrong.

This needs to said to him more.

[Steamer]

What Scrib said. If you are the last one left though, you better get your ass to it in reasonable time.

[Sensei]

With respect Scribble, I'm sorry but I disagree. That doesn't change the fact that what you say will be the law.. You are the clan member. I am an admin. You outrank me. But like I said I disagree.. And I think you should reconsider and change your mind and here is why:

I understand where you are coming from but the way it plays out in game is much different than the way you assume here..

1-People get off spawn at round start. So why would anybody want to go back to spawn because someone wants to scout and drops the bomb at round start? Especially in a time-precious game like this.. Why would I lose time to go back because you want to play different?

The very design of the game defines this.. The bomb rotates to a different player every round in order to MAKE a different player responsible every round..
What you are suggesting is against the game's design..

2-Its a 2 minute round. The player still has time to scout for a while and pursue the mission objective afterwards. Takes an average of 20 seconds to reach objective area from spawn on any given map. i.e.: You scout with bomb in dust2, then you chose a site and get on the way. Without exploiting time-frame of course.. You would even be able to change weapons..

3-Its nothing but common sense to expect the guy with the bomb to actually try to plant the bomb. And the generally players in Pub play that way..

4-Allowing the players to purposefully drop the bomb opens up to exploitation of the entire idea of Pub being a mission-oriented server. This is the worst aspect..

If purposeful bomb dropping is allowed there will be no TEAM play.. The act of dropping bomb is saying "I just want to do something else, go plant your own bomb"..

The level of this exploitation would kill the very idea of Pub.. From administrative point of view, it would also make it unmanageable..

Here are some scenarios for you of whats going to happen if this is allowed:

- All players start throwing the bomb to each other..
- All players start throwing the bomb to ground and say "its ok and somebody should pick it up"
- The bomb will be dropped at spawn every round. Eventually all REGULAR players who play according to design will leave of frustration because a good player would not want to go back to spawn and lose time instead of positioning himself on the map..
- When one CT left, the guy with the bomb will drop it and go try to find him instead of following objective..

I can write many more.. These are the ones that actually happened before.. So they were the first to come to my mind..

Allowing purposeful bomb drop is a huge mistake. It will cause major problems.. And will ruin Pub's gameplay..
I urge the clan members to re-consider.. This is very important.

Best Regards

[SCRIBBLE]

If they are avoiding objective then their intent is clear and they are breaking the rules. Throwing the bomb has its advantages and is not inherent avoidance of the objective. Use your discretion... common sense, right?

[-Whitey-]

Like I said, only this time I'll format and correct it.


Dropping the bomb is not against the rules. Not completing the objective is what is.
If you are in possession of the bomb or are a remaining CT, complete the objective.

If you dropped the bomb when all of your team is alive, it is with teamwork that they use their eyes to see the bomb dropped on radar.
If you are the last T, you must pick it up (and plant).

That would be you completing the objective in this scenario.

This would apply vice versa.
Why would Scribble of all people lie to you?
Then again.. I think I could take that back.

Rules are rules. If they were written, they were made to be followed. How can you follow a rule that is not made?

Perfect example:
Take the 12 year olds on Garrys Mod that still play DarkRP, and bitch and moan about how there are existent yet non-existent and non-existent yet existent rules.
This will go on forever.

You may drop the bomb for your teammates, given they are alive.
You do not have to be the one to defuse the bomb if there is more than one CT, but at least one of you have to go for it if there are more than one of you.

You should also be rescuing the hostages on cs related maps if you are a CT.

[Cougar]

In all my years of playing counter strike in the various versions they have put out, I have never once played on a server where it was absolutely mandatory that if you start with the bomb, you cannot drop it. No one in their right mind would make up a silly rule like that. If at the start of the round, you do not want the bomb, you are not obligated to keep it. On dust2, which is the best example, the terrorists will sometimes have a few people hang back and snipe down mid and/or just watch it to notify their team which way the enemy is going. If one of the snipers has the bomb, why would they keep it? Drop it and let someone without a sniper pick it up to go plant it. In fact, people using sub machine guns are probably the best option for planting the bomb.

I had to throw my 2 cents in on this even though I never play on the ibis pub server because after reading whiteys reply, and I understood what he meant completely, and he never said dropping the bomb when you die, I'm pretty sure he would have written that if he meant that. He meant just dropping the bomb in general while you have teammates still alive. Like I said above, if you do not want the bomb, you are not obligated to keep it. The rules are written down for a reason and there are no hidden ones that people don't know about. Plus, how would they know about them if that were the case?? The rules are the rules, but individual admins use their own discretion and their view of those rules to decide on what to do in different situations.

[Kasp3r]

I rarely post on here but as someone that always goes scout deagle when I'm a T I have to agree with scribble. Even if I have the bomb and no one else wants it, I would still drop the bomb, but I would still attempt to complete the objective. The reason for this is since I'm gonna scout and be looking for people, I will drop the bomb prior to each shot just so that if in the off chance I miss I don't want to give the CT's any information that the person picking them off is the one that actually has the bomb. I have every intention of picking it back up as I make my way to the bomb site or if I have to retreat and get a better angle as the opposing team chases after me. Now with what was said I would be banned for dropping the bomb the first time, but I am following the objective, so would that be right?

[YoYoYonnY]

Isn't planting the bomb a team objective, just like defusing the bomb is? Why would dropping the bomb be the same as not wanting to completing the objective? I mean, if someone is standing inside of the bombsite and refuges to plant/defuse, pls ban him, but if someone is acting like a team player and feels like another player has a better change in planting the bomb (And you obviously have if you are a rush player, lets say a player with a AK and a flash (And armor :P)) then isn't that acturely helping the team completing the objective? Furthermore, isn't dropping the bomb when you know you're gonna be camping a spot the best option? Because I cant see how rushing the site with a scout and the bomb is ever gonna help your team, I think thats just as bad as dropping suiciding with all your weapons and the bomb when you see a CT... I would do the same: If I rush the site as the first person, or if I dont rush the site, I will drop the bomb, so my team has a better change to win the round. I play CS:GO more often than I play CS:S pub, but still, I hate those people who rush long with the bomb and a AWP/AK (something expensive), die and fuck the whole team in the first 10 seconds of the game, and I praise those who drop the bomb before they rush in. Its just like people who run into a bombsite and start defusing the bomb before they check for enemies. Its so frustrating when you kill everyone but the last guy, and then the other 6 teammembers all die because they try to defuse without checking for enemies.

[$Money$]

I don't understand this. Unless your the last player alive what is the big deal. You should always look where the bomb is at on the radar.
I mean if your gonna awp or scout with the bomb that's a shitty move but not illegal.

[YoYoYonnY]

I don't understand this. Unless your the last player alive what is the big deal. You should always look where the bomb is at on the radar.
I mean if your gonna awp or scout with the bomb that's a shitty move but not illegal.
Wait, what? Even if ur the last player its not against the rules? Then why the fuck is there even a discussion about this????

[vivid]

I guess I should've been more specific with my original post.

I meant basically what Scribble said, at the beginning of the round, if I plan on scouting and I have the bomb, I would drop it to or close to another person. Then scout for a short period in middle. I'm not talking about camping the whole round at all. I'm talking about only at the very beginning of the round.

For one thing, I've played with Sensei and Psyche enough, that I would've thought that you both knew that I do do the objectives. And you really came off as hostile to me in that post Sensei, when I didn't even mention an admin's name in my original post (OP).

I also don't scout that much, so this shouldn't even be an issue except that it was brought up when I did do it. I dropped the bomb at round start to another player on de_dust2, and I just think they didn't want the bomb for some reason. I'll take the bomb, I don't care, but if I'm scouting, I don't want to be the one who is camping with the bomb. Hence the dropping of the bomb. IMO, that's more inline with doing the objective by not camping with the bomb.

- - - Updated - - -



Here are some scenarios for you of whats going to happen if this is allowed:

- The bomb will be dropped at spawn every round. Eventually all REGULAR players who play according to design will leave of frustration because a good player would not want to go back to spawn and lose time instead of positioning himself on the map..

Here's a situation that WILL occur if this isn't allowed:

- The person with the bomb who scouts, say mid dust2, may die, in spawn with the bomb. Any player who rushed now has to go back and get the bomb.

This situation happens all the time, I've seen it on IBIS, and especially on dust2. I can't recall how many times I've had to go back to spawn to get the bomb.

*EDIT*:
I consider myself a "good" player, and if there's enough time, I would always go back for the bomb.

What's the verdict because I'm a little confused?

[SCRIBBLE]

It is allowed.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

why...why is this even a question?

would not running straight at the nearest bomb site and attempting an immediate plant at round start be delaying the objective? What if you claim to be moving towards the farther bomb site, what then? come on get real.


seriously though, in a non wall-of-text, could someone explain why dropping the bomb at round start so a teammate could grab it instead would be considered "delaying the objective" and against the rules?

[What]

Yall need Jesus

[swagbot 9k]

why...why is this even a question?

would not running straight at the nearest bomb site and attempting an immediate plant at round start be delaying the objective? What if you claim to be moving towards the farther bomb site, what then? come on get real.


seriously though, in a non wall-of-text, could someone explain why dropping the bomb at round start so a teammate could grab it instead would be considered "delaying the objective" and against the rules?

Because Sensei feels the need to over complicate everything and ruin the game. Just look at all those bans. Half the fucking pages are him and I bet you he isn't even following the warn,slay,kick,ban protocol either.

[vivid]

It is allowed.

Thanks for the clarification.

Like someone else already pointed out, how can you have rules and have people know the rules, if they're not written down?

I also don't like being accused of anything, let alone, trying to exploit the server rules. Sensei, I told you that I understood what you were saying not that I understood the rule. I only wanted to read the rule to find out the details. When I couldn't find it, I created this thread to get an answer. If I only went by what you said, I would still believe you. So in the end, I'm glad I remembered and wrote this thread.

[Passarelli]

The rule as was explained to me is that as long as you attempt the objective and have time to complete it before the time for the round runs out, you are ok. If someone fails to leave themselves enough time, you warn them. If they do it again and you are an admin, you kick them. If you are not an admin, you post it in the temp ban section so that an admin will talk to them. If they repeat it over and over, then it is ban worthy.

[YoYoYonnY]

The rule as was explained to me is that as long as you attempt the objective and have time to complete it before the time for the round runs out, you are ok. If someone fails to leave themselves enough time, you warn them. If they do it again and you are an admin, you kick them. If you are not an admin, you post it in the temp ban section so that an admin will talk to them. If they repeat it over and over, then it is ban worthy.

Noone acturely ever tells me anything about such 'unwritten rules' (until it is too late) but this is pretty much what I would do in such a situation. Maybe warning them after failing the objective the first time is a bit harsh, but if one refuges to complete the objective, a kick for not listening to a admin and ruining the game defenitly seems fair to me. Just like teamdamage isnt specificly forbidden but should be avoided. I notice I deal a lot of teamdamage in gg (Minimap 2 hard 4 me), so I try to compensate that with appologies and not shooting for a couple of secs to take a look at minimap, or even deliberately killing myself as a punishment. If someone were to warn me about a possible kick if I kept dealing team damage I probably would stop playing, or have less fun bcause I can no longer spray and thus would die all the time. Thats why I dont really agree warning a player before closely observing their behaviour will help the situation. Same goes for this case, aswell as many others: maybe asking why someone is dropping the bomb might give you a better view on the situation. Obviously, this player had fun playing with scout more than completing the objective, just like listening to gunshots and footsteps is more fun then looking at the minimap for me. These styles of play might not help the team, but if someone tries to compensate their style of play I dont think warning them would help, just like warning a hacker doesnt work either. In the case of someone playing in a style which makes the game more enjoyable for him, probably the wisest thing to do is not to take that fun away from him.

[Passarelli]

So you know, a warn is, "Hey man, so you know you have to at least attempt the objective, so make sure you start moving with enough time to complete it."

Dropping the bomb is not illegal, as long as he has enough time to complete the objective before the round ends. This isn't gun game--you can use 100% of the time in the round even as the last person (you tend to piss people off doing so) but as long as you get the objective completed in that time frame it is fine.

Telling someone what the rules are is completely fine. Try playing on the WCS server without any of the rules enforced and you'll learn how much of a shit show that can be. The rules are there to make the game run smoother and keep the community healthy.

Also, as for your later argument about taking his fun away, go talk to Zero about that. The rules are the rules, and only he can change them. Personally, I agree with the current objective rules. It allows for some camping, but means that eventually there will be some action. Otherwise, you'll end up with 2 people that camp the entire map and there would be an absurd amount of downtime for other players.

[swagbot 9k]

I would just like to point out that since Sensei has been told that he was wrong, he hasn't come back. Little bitch got put in his place.

[YoYoYonnY]

So you know, a warn is, "Hey man, so you know you have to at least attempt the objective, so make sure you start moving with enough time to complete it."

Dropping the bomb is not illegal, as long as he has enough time to complete the objective before the round ends. This isn't gun game--you can use 100% of the time in the round even as the last person (you tend to piss people off doing so) but as long as you get the objective completed in that time frame it is fine.

Telling someone what the rules are is completely fine. Try playing on the WCS server without any of the rules enforced and you'll learn how much of a shit show that can be. The rules are there to make the game run smoother and keep the community healthy.

Also, as for your later argument about taking his fun away, go talk to Zero about that. The rules are the rules, and only he can change them. Personally, I agree with the current objective rules. It allows for some camping, but means that eventually there will be some action. Otherwise, you'll end up with 2 people that camp the entire map and there would be an absurd amount of downtime for other players.

I just think having fun with the team is more important than completing the objective. If the whole T side wants to go knive only then so be it. In such a case kicking them or even explaining the rules seems totaly unnececairy to me. Same goes for gungame (there even was a thread about this): if the whole team agrees knife only or whatever is more fun than completing the objective. I also agree that if someone thinks completing the objective is more fun, then everyone else should respect that. But for example a knife only: shoothing bcause you cant knife and and getting targeted for that isnt illegal to me. If this were to be a written rule it should be: Under no circumstances prevent those who want to complete the objective from doing so. In the case of someone not listening to that rule or to a admin, kicking seems ok to me. But like I said; if he didnt prevent his team from planting the bomb, he shouldnt be punished for it. Also explained by others: if youre the only one alive and arent completing the objective, someone should explain you the rules if they feel like not completing the objective would ruin the game.

[vivid]

Telling someone what the rules are is completely fine. Try playing on the WCS server without any of the rules enforced and you'll learn how much of a shit show that can be. The rules are there to make the game run smoother and keep the community healthy.

What about telling someone what the rule(s) are, but actually making up rules and not the actual rules?

*EDIT*:
To the people talking about not doing the objective, this wasn't the issue IMO. I always do the objective, no matter what. I understand Sensei's argument, but he was mistaken. I was literally talking about sniping mid for the very beginning of the round, not the whole round. And I don't even scout that much, so it's even less of a deal.

The thing I find to be wrong here, is that I was told not to do it in-game, and I come here to find out that I was fine and didn't break any rules. I also stated in another post, that I dropped the bomb to someone else, and I really just think they didn't want it and they had also heard Sensei spout this rule before apparently.

[Passarelli]

Admins not knowing the rules and trying to enforce their own corrupted versions has been and is still an issue. Add ULAs and clan to your friends list. They all know the rules. If none of them are on, give the admin some respect and either play his way or leave. Definitely post the issue on the forums though. Even that doesn't fix some issues however.

I did that for fire nades and poison smoke on crackhouse, as it is legal as long as you leave paths through the house and don't hit the hosties. Maynard even made a great post about it which I would link in game. Several admins were just like, "no, you are wrong!!1!!111!"

YOnny, it feels as if you are simply disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing. The rules are enforced when someone wants them to be. If everyone wants to say, play hide and seek and ignore the objectives they can, but if someone joins and wants to actually play the game, people need to respect that. That is one of the main points of the 'warn' step.

[I'm a zambi]

I snipped some stuff. Sorry if I took some things out of context. I will say that I haven't been following this debate so I may not have all of the information necessary to leave a comment here but I think most of what is said does not require context.


Admins not knowing the rules and trying to enforce their own corrupted versions has been and is still an issue.
I think it may be time for rule re-defining, since it seems that there are some (by some I mean A LOT OF) gray areas. A clear black and white ruling for specific instances would greatly help when it comes to moderating the servers, especially in the case of an abusing admin. I think what you mention is largely an issue of misunderstanding the rules rather than enforcing 'corrupted versions'.


Add ULAs and clan to your friends list. They all know the rules. If none of them are on, give the admin some respect and either play his way or leave. Definitely post the issue on the forums though. Even that doesn't fix some issues however.
True. All of this is true.


Maynard even made a great post about it which I would link in game. Several admins were just like, "no, you are wrong!!1!!111!"
Fuck'em.