Some admin powers should not be used?

[SupermanTM]

Hi guys,

Was just wondering I was told by money not to low grav players because it messes up the server.

(I've never seen low grav cause any problems or lead to any crashes)

I have actually heard this from other admins also so I am not doubting money, and I already stopped using low grav. I'm just curious how it messes with the server?

As far as the gameplay, i dont think it affects it, especially if its monitored by the admin. I usually would low grav 3 or 4 people on certain escape maps out of 20. The people would ask me for low grav, it would increase the enjoyment of playing the game for them. I would never low grav zombies, and often when a person with low grav died id set their gravity back to normal. I never noticed the game being harder for zombies. Low grav players would still die, and there would still be about 20 other people who had no grav for zombies to get. Usually low grav players would be busy jumping rather than defending also. When a low grav player was the last one alive it never delayed the game either. But if it did i could just slap them off a high pillar to join the zombies bellow.

Anyway i'm sorry guys, i thought it was all in good fun, didn't know it messes with server.

[Joker]

Low gravity/high gravity can mess with the server only because if you set it to low or to high a player will go into "oblivion" and as an end result it crashs the server. So we highly don't recommend using the low grav commands for that reason. If you make the server crash, your admin powers will probably be restricted or have some sort of punishment. We have seen low gravity mess with the server many times by admins who don't know how to properly use it. As a blanket statement we just told everyone not to use it a long time ago.

[iNoToRiOuS]

The only alteration I noticed when other admins would make modifications to the Zombie Mod+ server's gravity is on ZM maps. The gravity on objects would be affected, however, it did not happen subsequently. To be more descriptive, a player can shoot vending machines that are laying face down with one bullet, and they will be knocked back a couple of feet away. In other words, one of the ways for humans to be the victor in a ZM map is defeated.

[Rosie]

I am not sure if it still occurs or not, but when using the rcon command to affect the gravity. It will sometimes affect the object physics on maps afterwards. It can generally be avoided by resetting it back to 800 before the map changes. But once the physics go bad on a map they will stay bad until either a server reset or crash.

[I'm a zambi]

Gravity is not allowed for the reasons Joker stated. The server often needs to restart after someone fucks with gravity because it's buggy. If you couple low-grav with parachutes it gets even worse.

Slap is another command that shouldn't be used (frequently). It should only be used to move someone out of the way or as a warning and should never be used to, say, knock someone into an area that would get them killed. 'slap @[Ts/CTs]' and 'slap @all' are completely restricted.

Freeze is pretty much restricted because as a human it prevents you from moving, often resulting in getting tagged, and as a zombie, it prevents you from tagging. The only place I ever use freeze is on Moria to protect Gandalf (and that's only after the bridge has begun to collapse).

Rename is not currently allowed because name changes are permanent (until map change). I wouldn't use this on someone unless you're sure they're okay with it. Even then, use caution.

In essence, use common sense. If it looks like abuse, it probably is.

[SCRIBBLE]

Don't use admin unless it needs to be used. Anything other than necessity is abuse. All in good fun is not a necessity. Read the ToS, clearly you have ignored it.

[SupermanTM]

I didn't use rcon, and I only used low grav on certain escape maps, by typing !admin, selecting 1.players and then finding 9. gravity, and choosing a player.

Thanks Joker, that's the answer I was looking for, though so far I've been shot to the very top of maps and never went into oblivion. Most escape maps also seem to have tons of invisible barriers that prevent even being shot to the top of the map. Again i was able to be shot to the top of the map because I allowed myself to have low grav as a zed. But as I stated in my original post, i never let players be a zombie with low grav. So it's a non issue. Players also know that if they delay a map they will be slayed for not doing the objective.

@I'm a zambi
Sorry couple low grav with parachutes? Doesn't work. You can only have one or the other, unless you probably use the rcon command? but i don't. I've been using low grav all week before money told me not too (As i said i stopped when i was told to by a higher admin) but the server didn't get restarted lol, and doesn't seem buggy so i dunno. whatever.

@scribble
The rules are in place so that the game is fun, and the objectives are met, if using admin powers doesn't interfere with these two things, then I am not really in violation of any rule. There is no written rule that states don't low grav players (as far as i am aware). If you believe i didnt follow the ToS or someone thinks I am abusing, its within your rights of course or zeros rights to take my 11 dollars and remove admin or ban me. I am not someone who is afraid of that or anything.

Thanks for clearing everything up though guys. In the sense that I understand no one wants me to use it, so i wont, but i haven't necessarily seen any good reason why its harmful. But your server, your rules.

[MadGamer101]

It's very simple don't use gravity, many of us have already stated that it causes issues with the server.

Using admin privileges for fun is not tolerated and will result in you getting them restricted or lost completely.

Be very careful with your admin privileges, and it dose not hurt to ask if you are unsure of something.

[StarsMine]

Last time I messed with gravity, while I did not crash the server, I had way to god damn much trouble getting it back to normal.

[SupermanTM]

Well I am not sure you guys are in game often currently/anymore, all who post here, unless you are in the gungame server.

I'm just thinking there might be a sort of bandwagon effect going on with little evidence that it disrupts the server. Sort of like, oh yeah I heard this, now let me say it too, it must be a fact because everyone else claims it is, but also because the people who started saying it have authority or are an authority on the subject. Either way the reason its bad is because everyone said it is, and its become a tradition that it is. But not necessarily because there is actual physical evidence of it being bad anymore. Gravity might have screwed with the server ages ago, and it might still on ZM maps. But I am not sure its having any effect on ZE maps.

What I am starting to suspect is that there might be some type of misunderstanding.

I've heard from people who said you can go into oblivion.
Okay maybe but ZE maps have tons of invisible barriers, and only if you give zombies gravity could they be shot into oblivion, and a majority of the time if its a ZM map, would it enable things like 'falling off the map' Which sometimes, on certain ZM maps, I can do this regardless, with no gravity (can't look up the names of the zm maps now). Either way we all agree gravity on ZM = bad and gravity on zombies = bad.

I've heard that gravity screws vendy machines on ZM maps or enable players who are high up to shoot vendy machines out of their cade position, and the vendy will fly like it weighs nothing.
But we all agree gravity on zm is bad.

I've heard from people who said, it causes and requires server restarts.
All I can do here is take your word for it. I used gravity for a week like I said, and nothing was required to get the server back to normal since nothing was abnormal. Setting a players gravity back to normal always worked. The map had no glitches or disruptions in anyway and the objectives were met, and it didn't seem more or less challenging for humans to win. THIS is the very reason it was a big surprise to me when everyone told me setting gravity is bad/harmful.

I've heard that it was challenging to get things back to normal from StarsMine.
Now this comment is what leads me to believe there is some misunderstanding going on between when or how the server gets screwed. This makes me think that StarsMine, actually typed the command !rcon_whateverthecommandis 800, to set gravity across a whole map for some reason. And I am thinking this is what screws the server. This is not what I've done or would do. I don't touch gravity across the map, i just set 1 persons gravity using the admin menu, without typing commands. So It would just be nice to know is everyone 100% positive that using the in game !admin menu has the same effect of screwing the server over? That is if you all go in game now type !admin, select 1. players (by pushing 1 on y our keyboard) and then push 9, and select gravity, and then select a player, and then choose 5. for very low gravity. 100% positive this fucks the server? And what percentage of the time? 1%? Because it would have to be since I've been setting players gravity low for a week now with no adverse effects. I am not saying 1% is acceptable at all. 1% IS 1 time too many, and maybe I was lucky. But I just prefer discussions based on facts, not opinions, or heresy.

Also why not just remove the command? Isn't the command to bring players back to life/spawn players removed/disabled?

[B1ackOut]

There are certain maps that change gravity, death star escape for example, that have not reset gravity when changing to the next map. This is a primary use of the gravity command. We tell you not you use it not only because there is a chance it will mess up the server, but because there is no real reason to use it. The Terms Of Service states that all admin commands must be used sparingly and appropriately. Aside from the example given there should not be any appropriate reason to change the gravity and if there is a reason, it should only be used to Reset the gravity to its original number.

Also why should we remove commands that are not supposed to be used or abused. The rcon commands are faster and meant to be used when needed to reset the entire server(really the only time you should be using it). The reasoning behind certain commands being removed is there is no need to teleport or revive people at all. Ever. Gravity needs to be fixed once in a blue moon and rcon_setgravity 800 or whatever it is solves that problem.

[phil.™]

The rules are in place so that the game is fun, and the objectives are met, if using admin powers doesn't interfere with these two things, then I am not really in violation of any rule. There is no written rule that states don't low grav players (as far as i am aware). If you believe i didnt follow the ToS or someone thinks I am abusing, its within your rights of course or zeros rights to take my 11 dollars and remove admin or ban me. I am not someone who is afraid of that or anything.

You clearly do not read the rules do you.



Restricted Admin usage - Note to players: Admins abusing their rights should be reported in the forums immediately with a demo. Admins are here for the people on the server, not for themselves. If you believe an admin is abusing his powers, please report that individual here (http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/7-Admin-Abuse) so that individual can be held accountable.



Admins may not use commands excessively oneself (EX. slapping)
Using the slap command to get an unfair advantage
Changing the gravity settings (Unless reverting back to normal gravity of 800)
Unrestricting restricted weapons (see Restricted weapons section)
Turning players into freeze bombs/firebombs against players consent
Admin chat should be reserved to convey messages to players and other admins. Do not abuse it.
Obsessively beaconing a barricading group.
If beacons start lagging up the server, issue no more than one per cade. (No mass beaconing)


Directly from ZM rules -- http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/5831-Zm-Rules-v3-1
It clearly states not to mess with the gravity, unless changing it back to 800.

Any admin caught messing with gravity will be having a long talk from me.

[SupermanTM]

Are you guys reading? Serious question?

i never type the value 800, or any value, because im not typing the command for gravity.. ie it's not gravity that effects the whole map, it's gravity that effects just 1 player.

I use the !admin menu. MEANING I AM NOT TYPING AT ALL. If gravity is not meant to be changed for just 1 player, then remove the option in the admin menu which i think is logical.

!rcon command can stay because someone here said you need it sometimes to set gravity across entire maps for some reason.

All i'm argueing here is that gravity for 1 player THROUGH the menu, has no adverse effects on ZE maps. I'm not arguing to use it. For example I would argue slap command doesn't harm the server, but It doesn't mean I want to use it, or am arguing to use it. I just think everyone claiming !admin 1.players 9.gravity [select player] as harmful to the map, server, or anything, is wrong. Plain and simple wrong.

[$Money$]

Are you guys reading? Serious question?

i never type the value 800, or any value, because im not typing the command for gravity.. ie it's not gravity that effects the whole map, it's gravity that effects just 1 player.

I use the !admin menu. MEANING I AM NOT TYPING AT ALL. If gravity is not meant to be changed for just 1 player, then remove the option in the admin menu which i think is logical.

!rcon command can stay because someone here said you need it sometimes to set gravity across entire maps for some reason.

All i'm argueing here is that gravity for 1 player THROUGH the menu, has no adverse effects on ZE maps. I'm not arguing to use it.
Also if you only change a couple of players gravity to low, you know how hard it is to tag them if their jumping around so high.
Im just gonna assume that's way too much work to remove it when all we have to do is not use it. IDK
Ill just say that all of us admins have had that 1 rule that we hate and we comment on. That's when Clan steps in and tells us "Its been brought up before and it wont change"
Then we stop worrying about it and move on. It is what it is! :wtg:

[phil.™]

I don't know how else to say this.

DO NOT FUCK WITH GRAVITY. PERIOD.

I don't really get how this is so ducking hard to comprehend.

[rawrr]

Fucking* phone autocorrected you :icon_mrgreen:

[SupermanTM]

haha phil <3

thanks money

[phil.™]

Serve your 1 week ban. I'm not letting this one go.
Next admin to mess with gravity is getting a 3 week ban.

[SCRIBBLE]

Superman, certain commands are grouped in with others and can not be removed without removing the lot. Instead of removing an entire group of commands, we choose to hold admins accountable when they do not follow simple rules and fail to practice self-control. Had I saw your reply before Phil, I would have given you a month ban and had your admin restricted. Restriction is still on the table.

[SupermanTM]

I don't care about the ban which is why i made no thread about it. just didn't see in the rules that senior admin can ban without a demo. which is the only reason i brought it up to zero. its not like i'm denying that i used gravity on myself, and i did it to show that it has no harmful effects on anything. except your egos. ;)

[StarsMine]

Wait, your giving out bans for someone trying to get a clarification on the rules?

Superman may be in the wrong, but this is why he is asking.

[I'm a zambi]

Wait, your giving out bans for someone trying to get a clarification on the rules?

Superman may be in the wrong, but this is why he is asking.
If I'm not mistaken, he got* his answer and it wasn't the one he wanted so he continued to abuse. The ban was given yesterday by Rawrr on GG. From what I know, Superman was using these commands on ZM.

I doubt this is a one-time occurrence, but ask Rawrr.

- - - Updated - - -

To top it off, he's also backtalking clan and making an idiot of himself.

[SCRIBBLE]

Stars, I suggest that you avoid advising on a situation of which you do not have all of the details.

Superman, you have not considered that it could be breaking something on the back end, where only one person has access to. That one person, zero, made the rule. You claim to have known about the rule, broken it anyway to prove a point, and continued to argue a moot point.

You are exactly the type of admin we do not need. You do not prove a point by breaking the rules. The ban will be extended until your admin is restricted or removed.

[SupermanTM]

I didn't abuse, using grav on myself during a conversation in game ABOUT how it's not harmful is not abuse. It's just "What you still on about that bs that its harmful? okay lets see, lucky I am admin and we can grav me right now to test it." And what did we discover? its not harmful!! BIG SURPRISE! Those two times i used grav on myself in Gun game didn't break the server or map, hence i am right. Even a slap once is not abuse if it gives no advantage to yourself. The rules state that if you overuse the commands on yourself it's abuse. Mostly for slap. The gravity rule is for RCON, because yes setting grav on a whole map can mess up a lot of shit, but not on 1 player. I stopped using grav, after those two times, and I was banned anyway cause Rawr was upset I didn't subordinate myself to them. Yes I wont just kiss your ass cause you have 'powers' i've been on the internet too long to worry about that. Rawr even admitted that setting 1 players grav doesn't mess anything up.

A 1 week, or 1 month ban is nothing to me in all seriousness. It's nothing compared to the 24 year ban I've had in some games. Though it is close to being the stupidest reason I was ever banned for. OH no he used grav on himself, QUICK BAN HIM!

If zero comes in here yelling his servers back end is all fucked up. Then i conceed, you guys are right. lol

[hippo]

Setting low gravity on yourself gives an advantage over those of us who are fat and have to take the stairs cause we ain't got them hops boi

Also, it makes Newton roll in his grave. He didn't die for this

[I'm a zambi]

Superman, you've accused others of not reading your posts yet you neglect clan's response.


Yes I wont just kiss your ass cause you have 'powers' i've been on the internet too long to worry about that. Rawr even admitted that setting 1 players grav doesn't mess anything up.
As for this, allow me to refer to Rapedollars' signature:


... IBIS in the name right? ibis.a means admin while IBIS means Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.

- - - Updated - - -


A 1 week, or 1 month ban is nothing to me in all seriousness. It's nothing compared to the 24 year ban I've had in some games.
24 years is nothing compared to the track you're going down.

[SupermanTM]

That 24 year old ban was funny though, the owner of the game server (different game) was a british lawyer, and banned me basically for talking/typing. A lot of people can't handle the internet still, though they claim they can. Anyway I bypassed the ban. Just had to change a few things, Changed my mac address and computer ID, logged on with a 56K modem I bought for $5 (which I still have) because I have a static IP and modem reset doesn't work + didn't want to switch to dynamic. Worst case scenario I have to login to steam on my other account. And change my name to The Flash or something rofl. After I bypassed the ban, I was netbanned across all servers. Similar to a VAC ban I guess? Which was also useless. Here is an account of some of those days.

http://deathstarbattle.blogspot.ca/
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JOfwiNpT_uU/TVGnTqTePMI/AAAAAAAAAEo/w9kKDXLVwyc/s1600/incursions.png

EDIT correction 13 years

ROFL
if you guys go down that road ill at least have another hilarious screenshot for my collection.

[StarsMine]

You enjoy digging dont you?

[Zuki]

Why do you feel the need to state the fact that he was British? have problem?

Edit:

Imo this thread should be closed as it has kinda gone off topic and a punishment
should just be decided. With the effect of ending the bitchy argument.

[SCRIBBLE]

I have been polite with you (superman) for the entirety of this thread, and that courtesy has not been reciprocated. If and when I remember to unban you, I will. Don't count on it, someone as trivial as you is easily forgotten.

[SupermanTM]

I've been polite too. Is disagreement impolite?

Anyway here is what I think of politeness "Courtesy is a form of phony social behaviour designed to cover up true feelings."

I've been on IBIS Zombie mod since its conception, took a 2 year hiatus, came back, nobody is ever gone from zombie mod unless banned permanently. Some people know how to bypass if they care enough. Good news for you is that if I remain banned I wont ever ask you to remember to unban me. If I care enough to ask, I'll care enough to bypass.

What is time to a troll god but relative? Yes i enjoy digging, reputation means nothing to me, and people who care about it mean even less. Though i suppose infamy is something i do like. i tend to be infamous for doing good deeds though, so i've been described by others as an anti-hero. Better than deadpool!

[What]

You should blog about this.

[phil.™]

Do you understand why we have rules? Do you know how Ibis survived versus other clans fall? It's cause we have seen it before.

You doing 1 simple command can lead to more than a possible server physics mess up.

1. You changing your own gravity may have the other team focus on you and your team overruns them. Abuse.
2. You changing your own gravity may have the other team no longer focus on you and you decide to kill them. Abuse.
3. You changing your gravity to "test" the waters may have other admins changing their own gravity. Before we know it ever other admin is changing their own gravity, leading to a server crash.

You're a child superman. You don't think ahead, you don't think of consequences, you don't think at all. You just do whatever like a child does. Hell my baby nephews has more self control than you.

Regardless. Continue your smart ass comments, and see you wont be able to post anymore either.


...
Stars, read.

[StarsMine]

I did read there was an undocumented jump in events (at least at that point), anyone reading those first two pages will read the same thing into the situation. 3rd page and Ban site explain it, but anyone on the outside dont necessarily use the ban site. Zambi post is very much necessary for documenting what happened with this shit storm. I am now aware of the order of events that led to the ban from multiple sources, still need try to keep things clear in the thread, the most obvious place to look if its ever needs to be reviewed again. Like say in a year if superman wants to get unbanned.

[I'm a zambi]

What's Permanent - 1 year? I'm pretty sure that's how far your math is off, Stars.

[SCRIBBLE]

Stars, we have no obligation to you to provide all the details as those who need to know are fully aware of them already. Some issues are handled internally and do not require total transparency as the input from the community is unnecessary. This is one of those issues.

This is not up for discussion.

[Steamer]

This is not the first time this shit has happened. It retards physics between maps, props go haywire, ects. Superman, I've ran into issues with you on numerous occasions of the like in the years we have played together(since conception I have helped build). I respected you on the comeback. Stop, just stop.