Back with a New Suggestion...

[TheLittlestHobo]

REMOVE THE ABILITY TO RESPAWN!!!!!!

It allows players to go spectate to find a specific person, then reconnect, then respawn in as a zombie. I just learned about this just now and I know that is entirely troublesome because people WILL exploit that.

/rant

Also, I've banned Oonyx for 2 hours because he just used that exploit to locate me. He also thinks he can insult my intelligence by the remarks he said about being a zombie and that's his job (i.e. changing the subject at hand).

What he did was after he connected IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROUND spawn in and just sit on my head and just sat there. He may be stupid not to realize that my position is given away by the radar and it just ruins my hiding spot.

Today I had to deal with him because I caught him prenuking and I for one think that he knows these rules but just doesn't like to follow them...or just tormenting all the admins because he thinks all admins are not that observant on the shit he pulls.

He has been on the server for quite some time now...at least 6 months and he should know the rules by now.

Oonyx if you are reading this, I will no doubt be very harsh to you, in regards to ban sentences, because I've dealt with you prior to school and finding you pretty much the same now.



Oonyx connected
Timmy Walnuts : !ztele
[SteamBans.com] No positive match found for Oonyx (STEAM_0:1:20120445).
[SteamBans.com] No positive match found for Oonyx (STEAM_0:1:20120445).

WTF BOOM connected
[SteamBans.com] No positive match found for WTF BOOM (STEAM_0:0:11532463).
[SteamBans.com] No positive match found for WTF BOOM (STEAM_0:0:11532463).
DarkScar : !ztele
Pink Fuzzball of Doom <ibis.a> : walter you getting Zombies killed
(ADMIN) TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid: because he doesnt know his place as a kid
(ADMIN) TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid: who's beacon?
Performance warning: Mark bone 'ValveBiped.Bip01_R_Hand' in model 'player\techknow\zombie_torso\torso.mdl' as being used by bone merge in the .qc!
Sniper killed DarkScar with m249.

[LMC] Touhou connected
[SteamBans.com] No positive match found for [LMC] Touhou (STEAM_0:1:19563045).
[SteamBans.com] No positive match found for [LMC] Touhou (STEAM_0:1:19563045).
Kr@zy Simon killed Thelastmarine with deagle.
(ADMIN) TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid: oonyx
2JZ_USMC killed |ƒσχ| ROBIN THE LION with elite.
(ADMIN) TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid: i swear if you tag me im going to be seriously pissed off
Player WTF BOOM was autokicked for breaking the 175ms ping limit on this server
Pink Fuzzball of Doom <ibis.a> : we cant win that way...
(ADMIN) TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid: probably ban you because what you did is illegal
Get ADMIN now by typing !admin to find out more!
Oonyx : why would you be pissed off for me playing the game
|ƒσχ| ROBIN THE LION voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
DarkScar voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
[LMC] Touhou voted zm_panic
TheJapaneseFool voted zm_tropical_panic_v1
Walter LETHAL WEAPON ibis.a voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
Sniper voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
(ADMIN) TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid: what you did oonyx is give my position away
Kr@zy Simon voted zm_panic
J.P voted zm_panic
|Kg¹|Zero Harmony voted zm_tropical_panic_v1
Ckdowain voted zm_horror_hotel
Doggystyle voted zm_tropical_panic_v1
- |STFU Bitch| - ESTYEFYU voted zm_panic
IplaywithmyselfALLLTHETIME voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
weborgs voted zm_tropical_panic_v1
TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
XXX-Cyrex-XXX voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
Warlord Zsinj voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
theadore voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
Jim Halpert voted zm_panic
Pink Fuzzball of Doom <ibis.a> voted zm_panic
Timmy Walnuts voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
D.U.I. voted zm_panic
Fancy Rabbitt voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
TheJapaneseFool : !ztele
John Dorian voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
[B]Oonyx : i'm a zombie if you didn't notice - that's my job
[ZOMBIE]
Humans have killed all the zombies.. for now.
Psycho : BAN 'IM
Killer Psycho still has 1695 hp left
Psycho killed TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid with zombie_claws_of_death.
[ZOMBIE]
You are now a zombie. Eat some brains!
Psycho zombified TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid
Playing music/Ravenholm_1.mp3 ( 28.0 seconds )
Ajax voted zm_panic
 DmgGiven v1.0 You will be shown Damage Given on screen
www.Source-Powered.com
[Source Radio]
Type !radio
to bring up the radio menu

[Source Radio]
Type !radiooff
to switch the radio off
Playing music/HL2_song27_trainstation2.mp3 ( 71.0 seconds )

[SM Parachute]
You have got a free parachute to use it press E while falling.
Thelastmarine voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
[XC] Kavinsky voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
[ZOMBIE]
ZombieMod is enabled, run for your lives, the game is HUMANS vs. ZOMBIES
.
Psycho voted zm_horror_hotel
m voted zm_vehiclecenter_b3
Results are in, 29 votes cast
Option 'zm_vehiclecenter_b3' has won the vote
SetConVar: No such cvar ( mani_nextmap set to zm_vehiclecenter_b3), skipping
The next map will be zm_vehiclecenter_b3
Oonyx : i was a zombie hobo - that's my job
(ADMIN) Walter LETHAL WEAPON ibis.a: Brb pizza is here.
John Dorian : PUT THIS IN YOUR CONSOLE (BIND "ANY KEY" "SCREAM") W/O ()
To view chat commands type !commands in chat
DarkScar killed Oonyx with zombie_claws_of_death.
DarkScar zombified Oonyx
Oonyx killed IplaywithmyselfALLLTHETIME with zombie_claws_of_death.
Oonyx zombified IplaywithmyselfALLLTHETIME
(ADMIN) TheLittlestH0B0 | ibis.alyid: banned player Oonyx

[Oonyx]

I don't really care to discuss the prenuke, as I explained my mistake of assuming that the only place that could trigger the nuke in ATIX helicopter was below the stairs, and I was ready to accept a punishment for that mistake. I stepped into the area behind and above the canopy and that suprisingly triggered the nuke as well. Do you think I'm stupid and would really do that intentionally? I just wanted to hide and get humans after they had gone below the stairs.

As for your current banning, what exactly is the purpose of the spawn feature? I joined the game after about 30-45 minutes of being offline and used the zspawn to get you. Where is the rule against this? How can you refer to a rule that doesn't exist?


He also thinks he can insult my intelligence by the remarks he said about being a zombie and that's his job (i.e. changing the subject at hand)
Your vague statements conveniently didn't specify any subject or accusation.

[TheLittlestHobo]

and I was ready to accept a punishment for that mistake.

Which was why somehow you've manage to avoid a 1 day ban by coming back an hour later and playing. If you were going to accept the punishment, I would have seen you 24 hours after.

The second ban (2 hours) I've already explained. It is the fact you connected...possibly reconnected after spectating me, just to find me at my hiding spot IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME. The fact that you've decided to just sit on MY head and not anyone else suggest you wanted to ruin my enjoyment - by having me caught - because of the earlier ban I gave you.

This is why this issue of respawning needs to be solved soon or else we would get exploiters like Oonyx.

[Oonyx]

Which was why somehow you've manage to avoid a 1 day ban by coming back an hour later and playing. If you were going to accept the punishment, I would have seen you 24 hours after.
Fallacious argument. You must have specified the ban to be only one hour, and I connected to see if you had changed your mind on what I assumed to be a one day ban. But again, if you hadn't your mind I would have been ok with that.


The second ban (2 hours) I've already explained. It is the fact you connected...possibly reconnected after spectating me, just to find me at my hiding spot IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME. The fact that you've decided to just sit on MY head and not anyone else suggest you wanted to ruin my enjoyment - by having me caught - because of the earlier ban I gave you.

This is why this issue of respawning needs to be solved soon or else we would get exploiters like Oonyx.
I would have done the same to anyone else in that spot - you're not special, and there's no rule prohibiting spawning in the middle of the round. I often don't tag people and just play around as long as they're not shooting at me.

You said that what I did was "probably illegal." Please do cite a rule for your conjecture as I've seen many players spawn or even respawn without receving any punishment whatsoever.

[TheLittlestHobo]

You are right oonyx. There are no official rules against it. But let's just break down, once again, what you've just done.

Connect to the server
Spec someone that's hiding
Respawn
Uncover his position

If you do not see anything wrong with that then you are just plain dumb.

Ever tried looking into Server Rules 1.5 in the forums? Go under Ghosting. Figure out the general point of that ruling and compare it to what you are doing. No doubt there are similarities to ghosting and your respawning.

If you cannot even see that, then you need to learn some basic etiquette or else I will suggest banning you for a long time until you learn how to play nice.

[Curdy]

I have to agree with Hobo on this Oonyx. The respawn exploit as Hobo has just decribed just now seems like another form of ghosting, it may not be a rule as such but think about if someone pulled that shit on you.

And dont say you would be cool with because that would be

COW BOY BULLSHIT.

And also Oonyx you played ATIX enough fucking times to know when the nuke is triggered.

[mastercheff]

oonyx is just playing stoopid and oonyx the pokemon was even dumber just a pile of rocks with eyes

[OMGBEARS]

WAIT you can zspawn?

As for using it to uncover the position of humans, I'm completely against that. As Hobo stated that's pretty clearly ghosting. Pretty much anything that allows you to find humans without either hearing them, seeing them , or stumbling into them, is ghosting.

You should have known that it would be a very fishy thing to do!

[Oonyx]

Ghosting is the use of outside programs or another person. Respawn makes the ability to see what's going on inherent in the game itself. It's a quite obvious use which I'm sure was thought of before it was enabled.

Moreover this is a really a case of uneven enforcement. If you want to ban this practice, shouldn't you or other admins have taken action against other players doing the same thing? The only time any action was taken was this instance, in order to serve a personal vendetta (Hobo seemed quite upset after I was able to come back before a day).


...but think about if someone pulled that shit on you
It has happened to me, but I didn't care one iota to whine.


And also Oonyx you played ATIX enough fucking times to know when the nuke is triggered.
Really? Ask longstanding players how to trigger the nuke on that map and I'll bet most of them say "by going down the stairs" as I had assumed.

[Curdy]

If you really don't care then its okay then for everyone else to do it to you, on one condition that you arn't allowed to do it lets see how long you last then before whinning, oh wait its fine with you no worries then.

Everyone knows the nuke goes as soon as you go down the first step at the top, it aint rocket science. We hear the nuke come in as soon as that happens, unless you think this nuke goes off instantly?

Do I have to decompile this map now and fix this pre nuke problem now.

It is rather tempting maybe I could add a trigger that teleports any pre nuker to the noob box for instant death.

Also I am a long time reg Oonyx I know the map all to well

[Oonyx]

If you really don't care then its okay then for everyone else to do it to you, on one condition that you arn't allowed to do it lets see how long you last then before whinning, oh wait its fine with you no worries then.
It's fine with me because it's an obvious use of zspawn. If by enabling zspawn this occurs, then so be it because it's a tradeoff. Creating a rule against it is pointless - how will you know when a player has seen the locations of the humans before spawning unless they themselves admit to it?


Everyone knows the nuke goes as soon as you go down the first step at the top, it aint rocket science. We hear the nuke come in as soon as that happens, unless you think this nuke goes off instantly?
This is where you're wrong, and you've proved my point because you as a longstanding member don't know exactly how the nuke is triggered. Going down the stairs, or even going down the first step has nothing to do with triggering the nuke. Go towards the rear of the roof (I went above the white canopy), without going under the canopy, and you will trigger the nuke all the same as I inadvertently did. Decompile the map and you'll see.

[Curdy]

You have missed the point completly.

THE POINT IS YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT EXPLOITING ZSPAWN SYSTEM!

zspawn is for players joining the game to jump straight in, instead of watching paint dry.

You used it too locate Hobo.

If your going to ruin a game like that for someone there wont be anyone left to play on the servers.

If that is the case with ATIX then I stand corrected.

Then again you shouldn't even be up there in the first place!

I think im just gonna decompile it anyway.

I shall most enjoy watching the noob box fill with poisions. I think in the noob box shall contain the following message.

Thanks to Oonyx this map has been fixed by Sir Curdy as a result of Oonyx being in places he wasn't meant to be in. Enjoy the Nuke toddles.

[Oonyx]

zspawn is for players joining the game to jump straight in, instead of watching paint dry.
If that was the case, then wouldn't zspawn be disabled for someone who's been in the server, for example, for more than 10 or 15 seconds? It's not.


Thanks to Oonyx this map has been fixed by Sir Curdy as a result of Oonyx being in places he wasn't meant to be in. Enjoy the Nuke toddles.
That's fine with me. I would imagine many maps' shortcomings are found by players being in places where they aren't meant to be.

[Curdy]

Zspawn is like Ztele I doubt a timer would work. I think removing it is the only real option left, unless this can be fixed. :banghead:

As for ATIX I think its a problem that needs a solution to now really as well as a lot of other maps do, just need to find that bloody decompiler. :wtg:

Sorry if I seemed heavy handed, im just annoyed I cant play from Hong Kong. :headache:

But I have to admit that was a sneeky exploit you found you cunning bastard :icon_mrgreen:

[Jeimuzu]

I agree with Hobo's post.


As for your current banning, what exactly is the purpose of the spawn feature? I joined the game after about 30-45 minutes of being offline and used the zspawn to get you. Where is the rule against this? How can you refer to a rule that doesn't exist?

Oonyx, don't complain because "it isn't in the rules." A lot of admins are making up their own stupid rules and players are starting to believe them without knowing. Hobo at least has a good reason for banning you.

On a side note, it is in the rules.. It just isn't exactly specified, but I'd put it in the category of exploits. But since it's new, I suppose we should actually be thanking you for discovering it. Anyhow, please don't do it anymore, and happy hunting.

[Oonyx]

Curdy, it's not you that's heavy handed in this instance - it was Hobo. It's not as if I plan to use zspawn in that manner again, but Hobo giving me a warning or telling me to not use zspawn like that again would probably have been more effective than a rather pointless ban. I'm fairly certain that if Hobo saw a friend do that, a ban would not have occurred.


On a side note. It IS in the rules. No exploiting.
The definition of exploiting isn't black and white. I see this as a natural consequence of allowing zspawn, unless of course, you choose to close your eyes before spawning in which case you won't see anything at all. Is it me or is that a bit absurd?

[Jeimuzu]

The definition of exploiting isn't black and white. I see this as a natural consequence of allowing zspawn, unless of course, you choose to close your eyes before spawning in which case you won't see anything at all. Is it me or is that a bit absurd?

There will always be new exploits and glitches people will discover, and Zero isn't always around to immediately change the rules. Admins do have to make calls every now and again, but if you just happen to spec the last surviving human and then respawn by chance, I can see that it wouldn't be bad. As for reconnecting after already being a zombie, locating a person, and then spawning, only to find them.. Then yeah.. I'd stand by the admin's decision to ban someone for that.

[Curdy]

Maybe Hobo was but, just because your okay with it dosen't mean others are with it. I know i wouldn't be cool with it. I like hiding in ZM and if this exploit continues, its like I said earlier it's going to kill the server if it does. :icon_mrgreen:

I still stand by Hobo on this one, his argument was sound and solid.

Are we done here, i want to sleep now.

Zzz... Zzz... Zzz...

[Jeimuzu]

I still stand by Hobo on this one, his argument was sound and solid.

Are we done here, i want to sleep now.

Zzz... Zzz... Zzz...

Agreed.

And night Curdy.

[Oonyx]

As for reconnecting after already being a zombie, locating a person, and then spawning, only to find them.. Then yeah.. I'd stand by the admin's decision to ban someone for that.
This is not the correct sequence of events. I was offline doing some work for some time. I joined in the round and had seen where hobo was hiding before spawning, and approached him. At this point he got upset and banned me.

[Jeimuzu]

This is not the correct sequence of events. I was offline doing some work for some time. I joined in the round and had seen where hobo was hiding before spawning, and approached him. At this point he got upset and banned me.

I wasn't saying you did it on purpose, I wasn't there. But I'm saying it is possible. You were just the one who brought it to everyone's attention.

[Curdy]

Oonyx this is getting old very quickly, and I grow tired of this.

so :chillpill: accept this, in the eyes of everyone it is an exploit

you just tried to defend your action for the last page or two now your claiming another excuses for your actons. Trying to deny you even done this intentionally is to be honest an insult to our intelligence let this be the end of it.

[Oonyx]

No one is forcing you to participate Curdy. You can go to sleep.

All I see is a debate between myself and others on how this can be considered an exploit.


Trying to deny you even done this intentionally is to be honest an insult to our intelligence let this be the end of it.
I've never denied that the I was able to find Hobo intentionally, so please do use your intelligence to read posts carefully.

[Jeimuzu]

No one is forcing you to participate Curdy. You can go to sleep.

All I see is a debate between myself and others on how this can be considered an exploit.

People who see it as an exploit. > People who do not see it as an exploit.

Zero can decide if banning people for using this is wrong or not. Until then, if it continues happening, admins will probably follow Hobo's example.

[Oonyx]

Deeming this an exploit and giving admins power to ban over it is problematic, to say the least for the following reason.

An admin cannot distinguish between someone who uses zspawn and:
A. Had intentionally spotted a human beforehand
B. Who had happened by chance to see the location of a human before spawning
C. Who did not know the location of a human before spawning but happened to find them afterwards as a zombie.

Essentially, this would allow an admin to ban any one who spawned and then tagged or found a human.

[TheLittlestHobo]

The fact that you are still continuing to argue and STILL find ways to justify your actions as acceptable is beginning to annoy me.

You spectated me
You respawned
You uncovered my position
You got me turned

It is a part of ghosting. Anyone with half a brain can see that this would be remotely wrong.

Oonyx, you know ZER0. Think about it this way, if you did that to ZER0 as you would do to me and he found out about it, what would ZER0 do?

Hint: Probably a much more worse sentence than my 2 hours.

Stop trying to justify that your actions was acceptable. Despite it not being in the rules, you should have some conscience to realize, "Hey, I probably shouldn't do this...especially to an old regular and an admin".

Again, if you cannot see your actions as being wrong, then by golly you need some fucking help.

ZER0, you do not need to make an official ruling of this. Just remove the zspawn feature.

End of discussion.

[OMGBEARS]

You're the only person arguing against it being an exploit. The people who have argued that it is, indeed, an exploit are either admins or very established and well respected regulars who have been admins in the past.

I'm pretty firmly in the camp that the zspawn system was not supposed to be used to find humans that would not have otherwise been found. There's really no satisfactory argument to explain why you should be able to use the system to do that. Absolutely none.

The zspawn system is a bad idea to put in for this very reason. You cannot trust people won't abuse it.

[Oonyx]

The fact that you are still continuing to argue and STILL find ways to justify your actions as acceptable is beginning to annoy me.
I can't do that anything about your being annoyed and that's really of little concern to me, but as long as this feature is available, it's a natural consequence whether or not it's done intentionally.


...
You respawned
...
Again, I did not respawn. This was the first time I played in that round.


what would ZER0 do?
Fix the spawn feature to limit its use, but I'm fairly certain Zero thought of this when he enabled spawn.

[TheLittlestHobo]

I can conclude that Oonyx is a sly little fucker who's been on the server long enough to know the rules and the basic "What is right and what is wrong" ideas. I am finished discussing this with you for now because I have to go for a while.

I, instead, will allow other people to come forth and express their opinions about it.

As for your last point. You are truly trying to be sly by responding to such a rhetorical question. And if you say that "It was a rhetorical question?", then you are indeed full of shit.

Good-bye for now.

P.S. I don't normally swear often in my posts but Oonyx deserves it. So I apologize for anyone being offended by my remarks (other than Oonyx)

[Christmas]

Zmod isn't hide and go seek.

The entire point is for the zombies to get to the humans and try to break their cades and tag them. Whether or not a zombie knows where you are should be irrelevant.

If you are in a spot where you don't want to be seen then you should pick a different spot, because I cannot stand having to wait six minutes while the zombies run around looking for a human who is trying to hide in some random spot.

Once again, not hide and go seek.

[Oonyx]

Hobo, you may not expect a response to your questions, but don't get annoyed when the responses aren't what you anticipate them to be. I won't hold back against individuals who use admin powers for their own purposes, but I will always treat admins who don't (e.g Bears, Walter, Tommy, Christmas, among others) with the respect and courtesy they deserve.


Once again, not hide and go seek.
Thank you Christmas. Some people in this thread have argued that if spawn is used to find people, then eventually there will be no people to find as it dissuades people from playing. This is categorically false. All spawn would do is to motivate the few people people who do this to form barricades rather than hiding.

[walterbrunswick]

Sorry Hobo, you know I love you, but I'm going to have to side with Oonyx in this particular case.

Nowhere in that console log do I see that he rejoined. Oonyx has established credibility during his time on the servers and in his rebuttal (and during the course of this thread disestablished Curdy's...). He's been respectful to you, while you've lashed out at him.

It is not his fault there is a !zspawn ability, and seems like you served a personal vendetta against him for spotting you. Unless you can present evidence that shows that he specifically REJOINED, SPECTATED YOU, and used !ZSPAWN to LOCATE YOU, your argument is getting thrown out the window.

Thank you, good day sir.

[AI_Scout]

Let me start by saying I’ve been on ZM for a long time now and just started to play ZM on a consistent basis again the last 2 months, and Oonyx is probably one of the decent new players on ZM. On subject, I have to concur with Hobo, what you did was wrong despite it being in the rules or not. Correct me if I am wrong, you joined the server midway as a dead CT/TT and used the spawn feature to start playing as a zombie after spectating Hobo's hiding spot. Whether you intentionally spectated Hobo or accidentally landed in Hobo’s spectate viewpoint is questionable. Yes, although the word may sound unsympathetic, it is an exploit. The Spawn feature was utilized and gave you an unfair advantage over the humans. While players that tend to hide in vending machines, etc are exasperating and prolong the rounds with no purpose but to hide, the zombies should locate the humans without the spawn feature’s aid.

On the other hand, I 100% agree with Oonyx that giving admins the authority to ban for situation like this will be exceptionally problematic since there is no way to distinguish someone who exploited zspawn or someone who came in mid-round, zspawn, and happened to find them subsequently as a zombie. We’ll probably have twice as much “Unban Me” threads. So back to Hobo’s suggestion and in my opinion, the spawning feature should be removed.

PS. I commend Oonyx for being respectable and offering his view point on the situation, but what he did was wrong.

[TheLittlestHobo]

Firstly, Christmas I would want to ask you what you think the general point of "Ghosting" under Server Rules 1.5 would be.
Secondly, Christmas, I know for a fact that HIDING is not against the rules what so ever and the fact that you had to wait is your fault for being dead in the first place. There is a thing called patience in this game and I feel not too many people have it. I don't mean to be offensive to you, but I'm just trying to make a point here about the whole premise of IBIS Zombie Mod.

Thirdly, Walter, it wasn't so much the case of rejoining, but the fact someone joins half way through the round, spectate someone who is hiding, and then getting them tagged or tagging them. That was the main point that I am trying to make that oonyx took advantage of.

On another note, I know for a fact I can make some of the most sturdiest of cades in the server, hence why I used to be second for a while during my time playing. I guess it would kill some people to deviate away from cading once in a while...

Still the issue at hand is:
IS SPECTATING A PERSON TO FIND OUT WHERE HE IS AND THEN RESPAWNING TO TAG HIM/GIVE HIS POSITION AWAY BE ALLOWED IN IBIS? SHOULD THE ZSPAWN FEATURE BE REMOVED?

[TheLittlestHobo]

If you are in a spot where you don't want to be seen then you should pick a different spot

Any hiding spot can be nullified by going to spectate and then searching for that person, then respawning to tag them.

[mastercheff]

i agree with hobo on this one, doing what onnyx did is like ghosting on hide n seek mod pretty much its just not fair once you've died YOU DIED get over it you fucking died ffs

[Oonyx]

once you've died YOU DIED get over it you fucking died ffs
Cheff you're misstating what happened, and your posts have been unhelpful. As I've reiterated over and over again, I was not dead; I joined the game during the same round and zspawned by which time I already knew where Hobo was.


Any hiding spot can be nullified by going to spectate and then searching for that person, then respawning to tag them.
Except that you can't change teams (spectate being a "team") more than once per round.


Secondly, Christmas, I know for a fact that HIDING is not against the rules what so ever and the fact that you had to wait is your fault for being dead in the first place.
Have you considered that as settings and features change, then so do strategies? If you choose to hide, then you need to also accept the chance that someone may join mid-round and know where you are.

[THE HOLY SH**T!]

actually back in the day, disconnecting and rejoining the server and !zspawning was a ban. I'm still sure it is, and zer0 probably will add it to the rules. It was illegal then and i assure you it is now.

Ask holy dart and sonic what i think about it. :banghead:

plus isn't the purpose of zm to survive? That's just my thought though, People play it for different purposes.

[Christmas]

Firstly, Christmas I would want to ask you what you think the general point of "Ghosting" under Server Rules 1.5 would be.

So people don't conspire to give certain players an unfair advantage. It is for the GG, WCS, and PUB servers because generally in ZM the entire point is cade, escape (in escape maps), or kill.


Secondly, Christmas, I know for a fact that HIDING is not against the rules what so ever and the fact that you had to wait is your fault for being dead in the first place. There is a thing called patience in this game and I feel not too many people have it. I don't mean to be offensive to you, but I'm just trying to make a point here about the whole premise of IBIS Zombie Mod.

I didn't say hiding was against the rules. Also just because you are dead does not mean it is "your fault" for being dead. Zombies sometimes must sacrifice themselves in order for humans to get tagged (you know what a zombie train is) and not all players are dead simply because they were killed by humans (joining the server). And the "patience" card does not work in PUB and WCS, so why should it here? The rounds are much longer. And because the rounds are much longer that gives players fewer opportunities to play specific maps, making them irritated when someone is extending the round for an extended period of time in that fashion.


On another note, I know for a fact I can make some of the most sturdiest of cades in the server, hence why I used to be second for a while during my time playing. I guess it would kill some people to deviate away from cading once in a while...

One of the reasons I hate escape maps is because people decide to hide and extend the round very long so they do not die. When it comes to a gaming server, the main objective is for rounds to be carried out in both a fun and efficient way. Having a few zombies look for a single guy who is sitting in a corner that is hardly looked at is rarely fun. That's why beacons are regularly used.


Still the issue at hand is:
IS SPECTATING A PERSON TO FIND OUT WHERE HE IS AND THEN RESPAWNING TO TAG HIM/GIVE HIS POSITION AWAY BE ALLOWED IN IBIS? SHOULD THE ZSPAWN FEATURE BE REMOVED?

Seems like a dumb feature anyways.

[TheLittlestHobo]

So people don't conspire to give certain players an unfair advantage.

Isn't finding someone's hiding spot, respawning, then tagging/giving the position away give that player an unfair advantage?


And the "patience" card does not work in PUB and WCS, so why should it here? The rounds are much longer. And because the rounds are much longer that gives players fewer opportunities to play specific maps, making them irritated when someone is extending the round for an extended period of time in that fashion.

Ask ZER0 to extend the map rounds, then. I would agree with you on that.




One of the reasons I hate escape maps is because people decide to hide and extend the round very long so they do not die. When it comes to a gaming server, the main objective is for rounds to be carried out in both a fun and efficient way. Having a few zombies look for a single guy who is sitting in a corner that is hardly looked at is rarely fun. That's why beacons are regularly used.

I also agree with you on this because it is escape map and the premise of escape maps well...is to escape. Cading maps are intended for survival until the round is over by any legitimate means necessary. [/QUOTE]


And again to reinforce what happened:

Oonyx joined the game midway through the round
He joined a side
While dead, he was speccing other players
He was speccing me as I was hiding
He respawned
He sat in my head and gave my position away
I was tagged


Call me arrogant, but that move deserved a ban.

[Jeimuzu]

Chrismas, Walter, and Oonyx, if you believe hide and seek should be removed, what about escape maps?

I'm of course talking about freezing fast zombies on escape maps because its 'unbalanced.' You do that, yet you wouldn't punish someone who goes into spectate to ghost and exploit the game?

[Oonyx]

James when you join a game, you're already in spectator mode, unless you join at the very beginning of a round. There's no extra effort involved in that. If you choose to delay spawning and look around, then so be it. As for fast zombies on escape maps, personally I have no problem with them.

Hobo, you were hiding in near plain sight, and would have been spotted more likely than not considering there were two or three minutes left. I don't see the justification necessary for an "inconvenience" of you turning into zombie for two or three minutes equating to a two hour ban. Furthermore, wouldn't a message to me have served the same purpose? Bans are last resort, and because you were personally involved it clouded your judgement.

[Christmas]

Chrismas, Walter, and Oonyx, if you believe hide and seek should be removed, what about escape maps?

I'm of course talking about freezing fast zombies on escape maps because its 'unbalanced.' You do that, yet you wouldn't punish someone who goes into spectate to ghost and exploit the game?

I believe that you aren't able to switch to spectate then back again so this is a moot discussion.

[walterbrunswick]

IS SPECTATING A PERSON TO FIND OUT WHERE HE IS AND THEN RESPAWNING TO TAG HIM/GIVE HIS POSITION AWAY BE ALLOWED IN IBIS? SHOULD THE ZSPAWN FEATURE BE REMOVED?

NO, NO, YES.


James when you join a game, you're already in spectator mode, unless you join at the very beginning of a round. There's no extra effort involved in that. If you choose to delay spawning and look around, then so be it. As for fast zombies on escape maps, personally I have no problem with them.

Hobo, you were hiding in near plain sight, and would have been spotted more likely than not considering there were two or three minutes left. I don't see the justification necessary for an "inconvenience" of you turning into zombie for two or three minutes equating to a two hour ban. Furthermore, wouldn't a message to me have served the same purpose? Bans are last resort, and because you were personally involved it clouded your judgement.

Exactly. It's not Oonyx's fault that !zspawn is there.

HOBO your ban was unjust.

I'll be honest. I've come into a game half-way through the round, and I've spec'd where people are, and I've !zpsawned. Oonyx didn't even tag you HOBO.

Hate the game, not the player.

[TheLittlestHobo]

Oonyx has now changed the main point as what he normally does so his actions are seemingly more innocent than the last. I.e that my spot was in plain site. Firstly, my spot may be detectable, but I would know that you aren't that good enough to come looking for me there (although I know you would say "yes I would"). I was fine up until you joined in and I still had a good minute left.

Oonyx, you better start being direct and NOT start to deviate the main point at hand here. You can't say that my position was easily detectable because of what you think. Again, I still had a good minute. Pretty much all of Oonyx's posts have deviated away from the main point by saying things like his last post.

Still, the MAIN POINT is that you know my location, zspawned in and then got me tagged.

Walter, it's not the fact that he didn't tag me but the fact that he gave my hiding position away from a system that is being abused.

Refer to Holy Shit's last post. Remember the time when people just goto spectate to avoid zombie death. At the time there was no official ruling. This is what I feel this situation is where it's at. An action that we know is deemed wrong but no official ruling is set forth.

And lastly Walter, it's the players that make up an online gaming experience for everyone.

When I hate the game, it's probably because of server lag. :P

[Oonyx]

Oonyx has now changed the main point as what he normally does so his actions are seemingly more innocent than the last...Pretty much all of Oonyx's posts have deviated away from the main point by saying things like his last post.
All of my posts include arguments about this main point and it's not that I've attempted to deviate - not at all. It's just that there are a plethora of arguments against the ridiculous ban you imposed to serve your own purpose or anger.


but I would know that you aren't that good enough to come looking for me there...
Ah yes, because your highness is so elite. Get real; it's not necessary to talk down to others just because you're an admin.


Remember the time when people just goto spectate to avoid zombie death. At the time there was no official ruling. This is what I feel this situation is where it's at. An action that we know is deemed wrong but no official ruling is set forth.
This is a rather false analogy. One has to go out of one's own way to avoid being "zombified" by going to spectate. On the other hand, when you join a server, the server itself places you into spectate mode. When you choose to spawn is your own prerogative.

[THE HOLY SH**T!]

Oonyx has now changed the main point as what he normally does so his actions are seemingly more innocent than the last. I.e that my spot was in plain site. Firstly, my spot may be detectable, but I would know that you aren't that good enough to come looking for me there (although I know you would say "yes I would"). I was fine up until you joined in and I still had a good minute left.

Oonyx, you better start being direct and NOT start to deviate the main point at hand here. You can't say that my position was easily detectable because of what you think. Again, I still had a good minute. Pretty much all of Oonyx's posts have deviated away from the main point by saying things like his last post.

Still, the MAIN POINT is that you know my location, zspawned in and then got me tagged.

Walter, it's not the fact that he didn't tag me but the fact that he gave my hiding position away from a system that is being abused.

Refer to Holy Shit's last post. Remember the time when people just goto spectate to avoid zombie death. At the time there was no official ruling. This is what I feel this situation is where it's at. An action that we know is deemed wrong but no official ruling is set forth.

And lastly Walter, it's the players that make up an online gaming experience for everyone.

When I hate the game, it's probably because of server lag. :P

I was talking about when there used to be !zspawn.

[TheLittlestHobo]

All of my posts include arguments about this main point and it's not that I've attempted to deviate - not at all. It's just that there are a plethora of arguments against the ridiculous ban you imposed to serve your own purpose or anger.


Ah yes, because your highness is so elite. Get real; it's not necessary to talk down to others just because you're an admin.


This is a rather false analogy. One has to go out of one's own way to avoid being "zombified" by going to spectate. On the other hand, when you join a server, the server itself places you into spectate mode. When you choose to spawn is your own prerogative.


Again, you are straying away from the main point. Re-read the first post doofus...This isn't about the ban at all. This is about "ghosting" and using the !zspawn feature to spoil that person's hiding spot (if you didn't get my earlier posts...the main point of ghosting is so the person hiding or even barricaded does not have his/her position compromised because someone was speccing). Almost all of your posts are just rebuttals to my responses which does not directly or at all relate to abusing the !zspawn feature.

Holy, I was just using the spectating to avoid zombies thing as an example...or perhaps an analogy to get my point across, but it doesn't seem to be working especially with Oonyx's last post...

I feel the main issue will not be resolved and Oonyx is just dick measuring, at this point. Pretty much all of my posts are always to the main point, but he keeps responding to my itty bits just so he has something to say it seems like. (You can quote this useless paragraph, Oonyx, because I expect you to).

As well, to save you the effort of you browsing through pages where I have not said anything related, I will tell you. It's on page 3 where I say:

I can conclude that Oonyx is a sly little fucker who's been on the server long enough to know the rules and the basic "What is right and what is wrong" ideas. I am finished discussing this with you for now because I have to go for a while.

I, instead, will allow other people to come forth and express their opinions about it.

As for your last point. You are truly trying to be sly by responding to such a rhetorical question. And if you say that "It was a rhetorical question?", then you are indeed full of shit.

Good-bye for now.

P.S. I don't normally swear often in my posts but Oonyx deserves it. So I apologize for anyone being offended by my remarks (other than Oonyx)


Do we really need to get ZER0 here? Eventually, yes...for he is the final judge at the main issue at hand.

[Oonyx]

Hmm...let's see. 90% of the text in your first post is about the ban. Your 2nd post is almost entirely on that. Your 3rd post is entirely on the same topic, and so forth.

The ban was essentially an action based on a premise; to argue against the action is to argue against your premise. Perhaps because you now realize that the ban was based on spurious grounds, you want to focus merely on the premise. If you wanted a separate discussion thread on it, then you shouldn't have placed both topics into this one. But I see no problem with discussing both here, considering I have indeed discussed what I think about !zspawn.

My posts are not going to conform to arbitrary parameters set by you, particularly when you've shown a willingness to discuss something outside of those parameters.

[OMGBEARS]

My sentiment is that if he left the game, came back specifically to find someone hiding via spectate, then !zspawned to go to you, the ban was justified.

Joining mid-round and spectating someone then !zspawning to go to them is a very lame thing to do. Bannable? I'd certainly be pissed off it if happened to me, but I'd have to say not bannable unless compounded by other things. I know that if I joined a game mid-round and saw someone via spectate hiding I'd just act like I never saw them. Then again, I do that in several instances. For instance if the way I got to someone is through a virtually non-repeatable glitch I tend to just !ztele away or if I become a zombie in a group of people, same deal.

ZM maps are about surviving in any way you can; hiding is definitely one method. There are major drawbacks to hiding, too: you don't get kills and there's already a very high chance that you'll be found and die. I've gotten very good at tipping over vending machines for that very reason.

[TheLittlestHobo]

My sentiment is that if he left the game, came back specifically to find someone hiding via spectate, then !zspawned to go to you, the ban was justified.

Joining mid-round and spectating someone then !zspawning to go to them is a very lame thing to do.

It's relatively the same thing. You spec someone that's hiding and then you zspawn in (either reconnecting or joining midway).

I banned him because he had the INTENT to get me turned because of the last (supposed) 24 hour ban that I gave for him pre-nuking on ATIX. Then comes back later on when I'm hiding, spawns in, and sits on my head as if he is taunting me and decides to sit there until someone came and tag me. He could have tried to break other cades or get other people but he immediately spawned in and gunned for me...gee personal vendetta on me much?

It's a personal vendetta for me because he insults my intelligence on playing dumb based on the things he tells me as if he didn't know any better which I think someone who has been on the server for well over 6 months should know the basic premise on what is right and wrong...seems like he is just below pre-conventional stage of thinking.

I've already explained what I need to explain.

[Oonyx]

It's relatively the same thing. You spec someone that's hiding and then you zspawn in (either reconnecting or joining midway).
No, they're not. One allows you get around the fact you have died as a zombie. The other does not.


He could have tried to break other cades or get other people but he immediately spawned in and gunned for me...gee personal vendetta on me much?
I always go for the easiest target, which you happened to be.


seems like he is just below pre-conventional stage of thinking.
A failure to see that there are varying definitions of what is right and what is wrong, i.e. morality, is what I would I call a "pre-conventional stage of thinking."

[Jeimuzu]

I believe that you aren't able to switch to spectate then back again so this is a moot discussion.

You can if you rejoin. But even if you go into spectate and reveal where every single hidden player is, that's ghosting.

And Oonyx, just stop. People will do this (hopefully not that much) until zspawn is disabled, so that is what needs to happen. Until then, ghosting shouldn't be a problem, unless your an admin/player that doesn't follow and/or enforce the rules when they need to be.

On a side note, if you recall Bears, Oonyx was banned for a day for prenuking. Anyone care to explain how he was back in-game before the day was up?

[TheLittlestHobo]

No, they're not. One allows you get around the fact you have died as a zombie. The other does not.

I expected you to say that and not to see the main point because that's you.


I always go for the easiest target, which you happened to be.

That is true after ghosting through all human players and take the theoretically easiest target because people in hiding are easiest since you can now ghost these individuals.


A failure to see that there are varying definitions of what is right and what is wrong, i.e. morality, is what I would I call a "pre-conventional stage of thinking."

And morality is still in the form on what is right and wrong but more specific and more defined. I view it on the grand scheme of things and what I believe would be FAIR for everyone.

Although this has been fun entertaining myself to this topic and reading your now inferior responses made me grow bored of this and also having me to repeat myself countless of times.

I bid you a good day and will be seeing you on IBIS real soon. So be good. I have my close eye on you :)

[Oonyx]

Generally it's not the "inferior" responses that makes an individual curse another out, viz. post 29.


I bid you a good day and will be seeing you on IBIS real soon. So be good. I have my close eye on you :)
In turn I'll be sure to have my Fraps on you. Adieu.

[walterbrunswick]

Well then, it's settled... kinda sorta.

[Death]

The fact that you are still continuing to argue and STILL find ways to justify your actions as acceptable is beginning to annoy me.

You spectated me
You respawned
You uncovered my position
You got me turned

It is a part of ghosting. Anyone with half a brain can see that this would be remotely wrong.

Oonyx, you know ZER0. Think about it this way, if you did that to ZER0 as you would do to me and he found out about it, what would ZER0 do?

Hint: Probably a much more worse sentence than my 2 hours.

Stop trying to justify that your actions was acceptable. Despite it not being in the rules, you should have some conscience to realize, "Hey, I probably shouldn't do this...especially to an old regular and an admin".

Again, if you cannot see your actions as being wrong, then by golly you need some fucking help.

ZER0, you do not need to make an official ruling of this. Just remove the zspawn feature.

End of discussion.

Should have built a stronger cade then he wouldn't have gotton in :lmao::lmao::lmao::icon_mrgreen:

[maynard]

oonyx is just playing stoopid and oonyx the pokemon was even dumber just a pile of rocks with eyes

lmfao:wtg:

[OMGBEARS]

I wasn't on when he was banned for pre-nuking! However, that's a no bueno thing to do, as well.

Anyways -- I'd love to hear Zero's opinion on all this!

[Pink]

I agree... I dont play on alot of zmod server since they had zspawn. My first time on a random server I killed a zombie dropped down behind some boxxes with a minute left on the clock 20 seconds later some guy says "this taking to long" rejoins and tags me. Its bullshit. Thats all I gotta say its unfair and it is cheating. I hope zero will remove zpawn since its unfair and will be abused

[Pink]

I would like to see zspawn removed too. Its unfair and its used to cheat more then any thing else.

[Dog Brother #1]

You know damn well how long it takes for a round on Zombie servers to end. So, a player connects to the server, and instead of waiting to participate, and have fun, they can spawn as a zombie, and play for awhile. You cannot spawn twice either.

The only way you can respawn after dying is by reconnecting to the server. There are always server admin on, so if you see someone pulling that shit, they can kick them. It's that easy.

Removing the feature entirely would prevent players from immediately having fun on the IBIS servers. Something I do not want to see.

[Christmas]

You know damn well how long it takes for a round on Zombie servers to end. So, a player connects to the server, and instead of waiting to participate, and have fun, they can spawn as a zombie, and play for awhile. You cannot spawn twice either.

The only way you can respawn after dying is by reconnecting to the server. There are always server admin on, so if you see someone pulling that shit, they can kick them. It's that easy.

Removing the feature entirely would prevent players from immediately having fun on the IBIS servers. Something I do not want to see.

Wrong.

It isn't against the rules as of right now.

[StarsMine]

This is an old topic, but I said on Oonyx on this.

He joined in midround and spawned, thats the reason the !zspawn thing is there. I use it when I join the game, beacuse when I get on I want to play and not wait 5 min for the round to end.

so fucking what if he saw you before he spawned. and where the hell is proof that he did?

Why did you let him on your head anyways?

[TheLittlestHobo]

This was to support Kavinsky's topic. He mentioned that every hiding spot is now compromised with this feature because people can connect to the server, spectate for any "easy" kills, spawn in and take them out. The diverse gameplay of Zombie Mod would narrow to just building cades and nothing more...with !spawn:

1. No longer any more hiding spots
2. No longer can zombie hunt by yourself
3. No longer can zombie hunt as a team

I can't think of anymore at the moment, but many strategies that would have its own epicness would cease.

And StarsMine, if you were hiding in a spot and a freshly spawned deformed found you from spectating you prior to !spawn and came over to you, what would you do? The zombie has 5000 hp. You can't do much at all...when a zombie finds your spot, he's pretty much in control of the situation, unless you plan on running (which I couldn't do because I had a solid minute left and shooting would just give my position away faster).

And no, I do not have concrete proof because it was my first time encountering such a thing. But I can tell you for sure he exploited it with intent. You just have to go with my word on this.

[Jeimuzu]

There is also the problem with zombies reconnecting to regain full health.

[inthebutt]

isn't there a section in the rules that doesn't allow this??

if not we should add a rule asap, so that way the admins in game can start punishing people for doing this.

this is gonna ruin the game and make people not wanna play IBIS ZM if it keeps up.

[Oonyx]

You just have to go with my word on this.
Why does he have to rely on your word? I've already admitted in this thread that I saw you.


if not we should add a rule asap, so that way the admins in game can start punishing people for doing this.
Yes, let's make up a rule that can't be properly enforced.

[Oasis]

You know damn well how long it takes for a round on Zombie servers to end. So, a player connects to the server, and instead of waiting to participate, and have fun, they can spawn as a zombie, and play for awhile. You cannot spawn twice either.

The only way you can respawn after dying is by reconnecting to the server. There are always server admin on, so if you see someone pulling that shit, they can kick them. It's that easy.

Removing the feature entirely would prevent players from immediately having fun on the IBIS servers. Something I do not want to see.

Wrong, DB#1.

We always have had fun on IBIS ZM ever since mid 08' without !zspawn and even parachutes. I think IBIS ZM is now lamer than it was in 08.

[inthebutt]

Yes, let's make up a rule that can't be properly enforced.

how can it not be properly enforced you fucking idiot??

if you see someone get turned as a zombie, disconnects, reconnects and zspawns back into the game. he just did it.

how hard it that not to see??

I got a suggestion for you oonyx, just play the fucking game correctly and leave all the important stuff to us, alright?

jesus

[Oonyx]

I got a suggestion for you oonyx, just play the fucking game correctly and leave all the important stuff to us, alright?
Sure, because the type of language you're apt to using is the hallmark of an intelligent person. :lmao: Leaving people as irritable and condescending as you in charge of the "important stuff" would be disastrous.

You could enforce a rule against people rejoining, but I assumed your post was about people joining mid-round, as most posts in this thread are. But then there's the issue of people having connection trouble - if there's a rule against rejoining is there an objective way to distinguish between someone who was disconnected due to server errors (e.g. buffer overflow) and connection trouble vs a person who disconnected intentionally?

[Christmas]

Sure, because the type of language you're apt to using is the hallmark of an intelligent person. :lmao: Leaving people as irritable and condescending as you in charge of the "important stuff" would be disastrous.

You could enforce a rule against people rejoining, but I assumed your post was about people joining mid-round, as most posts in this thread are. But then there's the issue of people having connection trouble - if there's a rule against rejoining is there an objective way to distinguish between someone who was disconnected due to server errors (e.g. buffer overflow) and connection trouble vs a person who disconnected intentionally?

It is quite obvious when you are shooting the guy, he disconnects and reconnects very quickly, then respawns and heads straight for you.

Especially when they do it several times in a round.

Also connection trouble normally causes the player to time out or be kicked due to high ping, not disconnect by their own accord.

[Oonyx]

Good points Christmas. With that type of information an admin should indeed be able to usually tell why an individual disconnected.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

so what is the final verdict?

how about when someone as a zombie dies, disconnects, reconnects and respawns because they died?

[Christmas]

so what is the final verdict?

how about when someone as a zombie dies, disconnects, reconnects and respawns because they died?

I don't see anything wrong with that.

They paid their dues by getting killed, and they want to keep playing.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

well then howabout if a human dies? should they be allowed to comeback as a human?

it's just too cheap and biased towards the zombies

[Christmas]

well then howabout if a human dies? should they be allowed to comeback as a human?

it's just too cheap and biased towards the zombies

They can't and if they tried they would get tagged.

I also wouldn't consider it biased towards the zombies because if they can be killed once they can be killed again.

Of course on the flip side if the zombie is close to destroying a cade and gets killed it may put the human at a severe disadvantage to have that same zombie come at his cade again with full health.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

also, if everyone who was a zombie started doing what you're doing, the humans will run out of ammo eventually.

[walterbrunswick]

If you enabled the respawning of zombies (which I am not opposed to) you would have to give the humans a lot more ammunition... at LEAST double (800 rounds x 2 == 1600 rounds).

[Christmas]

If you enabled the respawning of zombies (which I am not opposed to) you would have to give the humans a lot more ammunition... at LEAST double (800 rounds x 2 == 1600 rounds).

How often do you run out of bullets, Walter?

[Abandoned]

They can't and if they tried they would get tagged.

I also wouldn't consider it biased towards the zombies because if they can be killed once they can be killed again.

Of course on the flip side if the zombie is close to destroying a cade and gets killed it may put the human at a severe disadvantage to have that same zombie come at his cade again with full health.

I with Christmas on this one. and Christmas, even if they do die and rejoin, it takes at least 25 - 35 seconds for the full "respawn" so that should give any cader ample time to reset the cade.:banghead: and as far as human dying then rejoining, if I understand Zspawn, depending on the settings of the code, they will spawn as a zombie. But please correct me if I am wrong. :wtg:

[walterbrunswick]

How often do you run out of bullets, Walter?

Depends.

If I'm hiding, never.

If I'm in a visible (and ALWAYS breakable) spot, depends on the # of zombies, the # of teammates with me, and the health % of said zombies.

Overall, I would say I run out of ROUNDS (technically speaking, a bullet is just the projectile, not including the propellant) about 20% of the time.

That is 20% in the current config. Now to that add zombie respawn at full health... and increase that % by about 200%.

[echo501st]

would it be possible to have one week without parachutes and zspawn?
as a trail to compare the game play players would experience.