i feel so dirty

[loka]

I just voted for a republican. ewwww

Discuss this election that oh so impacts the rest of you bitches

[Tragedy]

I don't give a fuck about any election.

Our Government, along with many others, is corrupt and no matter what we do...it's not going to change. That's my take on it.

[loka]

Personally, I've always had the mentality that both sides are corrupt. Like I told masta, I'm declared independent because neither side is for me. They decide things based on special interest groups and the lobbyists that throw $$$ to influence votes. There is no such thing as fair government. It is what it is.

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. - Thomas Jefferson

[Christmas]

It's a country ruled by sophists.

Ironic considering the country is here today because of that same sophism that everyone hates. And the fact that the country revolted to form this type of government.

But that is politics for you.


Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny


-Thomas Jefferson

[Andrew_Pavlik]

I have a feeling that this thread is going to make me very angry very quick and some of the ignorance people have lol - with that said I will do my best not to re-look at this.

[OMGBEARS]

I'm a progressive -- I don't consider myself a democrat in the slightest anymore. That being said. This election really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. The dems with an 18 vote lead in the senate isn't a super majority, sure, but the dems have a much wider majority in the senate than republicans had when Bush could do practically anything he wanted.

It's all good.

[loka]

Actually, if Scott Brown wins... it pretty much blocks the Health Care reform bill and any other bill that Obama tries to put forth.

And here in Massachusetts... we have no desire for health care reform.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

...what elections?

[loka]

Because the great Senator Kennedy died...
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57P0JQ20090826

this happened
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/18/avlon.massachusetts.independents/index.html#cnnSTCText

[OMGBEARS]

Actually, if Scott Brown wins... it pretty much blocks the Health Care reform bill and any other bill that Obama tries to put forth.

And here in Massachusetts... we have no desire for health care reform.

In Massachusetts you already have government mandated healthcare, and in fact, the system that your state has in place is more progressive than the one on the senate floor at the moment.

Democrats have been conceding every point to republicans ANYWAYS. If there was a 99/1 split that would pretty much still be the case. 1 seat really doesn't change anything. The bill could still be passed through reconciliation in the senate, but for some reason the dems don't think it's right or some nonsense. Reconciliation would let the bill to avoid a republican filibuster, which is their only card in the hole at this point, and one they've played a lot recently. I've pretty much given up on the two-party system anyhow.

But either way, if the republican wins it's essentially Massachusetts telling the rest of the country "suck it bitches."

[acolyte_to_jippity]

huh.

don't really care.

[loka]

In Massachusetts you already have government mandated healthcare, and in fact, the system that your state has in place is more progressive than the one on the senate floor at the moment.

Actually... our health care system is crappy. The republican who implemented it has more holes then to what to do with it. it has piss poor spending to it, and the bill that is in place at the senate has more fiscal responsibility than the one that Massachusetts was so hesitant to pass. Funny Scott Brown approved that bill, but will deny this one based on the fact that it came from a democrat, which is really flip flop. It's why I don't have state COBRA and I am uninsured at the moment. I'm telling Massachusetts to suck it because I don't care if I get sick or not.


But either way, if the republican wins it's essentially Massachusetts telling the rest of the country "suck it bitches."

Exactly. Suck it :D

[loka]

huh.

don't really care.

if your parents pay for your health care or have school based health care... then yea you shouldn't care

[OMGBEARS]

Actually... our health care system is crappy. The republican who implemented it has more holes then to what to do with it. it has piss poor spending to it, and the bill that is in place at the senate has more fiscal responsibility than the one that Massachusetts was so hesitant to pass. Funny Scott Brown approved that bill, but will deny this one based on the fact that it came from a democrat, which is really flip flop. It's why I don't have state COBRA and I am uninsured at the moment. I'm telling Massachusetts to suck it because I don't care if I get sick or not.



Exactly. Suck it :D

If the Democratic candidate wasn't awful at campaigning and could pull her head out of her ass it would be a no brainier. Obama carried Massachusetts by 26 points in the election. WTF people.

[loka]

If the Democratic candidate wasn't awful at campaigning and could pull her head out of her ass it would be a no brainier. Obama carried Massachusetts by 26 points in the election. WTF people.

Martha Coakley is a dumb bitch, and she's a lawyer. Those people are such good liars... ITS PATHOLOGICAL
She's a good attorney general... just don't want her anywhere near Washington.

[OMGBEARS]

Martha Coakley is a dumb bitch, and she's a lawyer. Those people are such good liars... ITS PATHOLOGICAL

In 1995 lawyers constituted 43% of the total seats in the house and senate. I don't think it's so crazy to have the people who pass the laws be lawyers. What I don't like are lobbyists.

I know it's a 15 year old figure, but it's difficult to find up-to-date info on segment breakdowns within congress.

EDIT -- today it's 36% or 162 out of 441

[loka]

In 1995 lawyers constituted 43% of the total seats in the house and senate. I don't think it's so crazy to have the people who pass the laws be lawyers. What I don't like are lobbyists.

I know it's a 15 year old figure, but it's difficult to find up-to-date info on segment breakdowns within congress.

Oh I know about the congress seats are taken majority by lawyers. Hell Kennedy was a lawyer.
She was walking with *suspense music* CEOs of health care companies!!!! This woman would be the ultimate lobbyist it's sickening.

[OMGBEARS]

Oh I know about the congress seats are taken majority by lawyers. Hell Kennedy was a lawyer.
She was walking with *suspense music* CEOs of health care companies!!!! This woman would be the ultimate lobbyist it's sickening.

No, loka, that'd be Joe Lieberman.

I wants to kill him with a spoon.

[loka]

HAHAHA! Anything that comes from Connecticut is trash D:

[OMGBEARS]

HAHAHA! Anything that comes from Connecticut is trash D:

/agreed

On a side note I'm kind-of weirded out by the fact that this discussion hasn't degraded into ad homonym attacks.

Good job, Loka.

[loka]

Please. I was on a debate team. I speak facts not insults ;]

[acolyte_to_jippity]

well, seeing as how i don't have a say in the matter, i don't much care. if whichever person who gets elected will block the healthcare reform bill, then wooHoo! if not, i don't see america ending all that soon. we got through carter we can get through obama.

might get fucked up during it, but we'll survive.

[inthebutt]

you know why I don't care about this health bill??

because I have a great health plan with my company and I'm pretty sure the government couldn't give me any of these benefits for the price that I get them at.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

correction itb, you'd get those benefits for free, but then i'd have to pay for them. and loka'd have to pay for them. and maynard, and whyte, and bears, and everyone.

and on the flip side, instead of paying for your benefits, you'd be paying for mine, and loka's, and maynard's, and whyte's, and bears, and everyone's.


you have to remember one important thing: the government has NO money of it's own. any money it wants to spend, on healthcare, on the army, christ on the paint for the white house's fence has to come from somewhere. and it comes from our taxes. so, while the government will be paying for our healthcare, that money will be coming from you and me all the same. only this way, you also are paying for everyone who doesn't pay taxes and shit.

[uuntiltheendd]

I don't give a fuck about any election.

Our Government, along with many others, is corrupt and no matter what we do...it's not going to change. That's my take on it.

+infinity
my thoughts exactly.

[inthebutt]

correction itb, you'd get those benefits for free, but then i'd have to pay for them. and loka'd have to pay for them. and maynard, and whyte, and bears, and everyone.

and on the flip side, instead of paying for your benefits, you'd be paying for mine, and loka's, and maynard's, and whyte's, and bears, and everyone's.


you have to remember one important thing: the government has NO money of it's own. any money it wants to spend, on healthcare, on the army, christ on the paint for the white house's fence has to come from somewhere. and it comes from our taxes. so, while the government will be paying for our healthcare, that money will be coming from you and me all the same. only this way, you also are paying for everyone who doesn't pay taxes and shit.

I don't work for the government, I work for a corporation and who said anything about getting benefits for free?? I was saying the government can't give me a health plan for the price I pay for mine.

[loka]

The health care your getting now would change everything you're getting at the "private" sector. Hence why people in Massachusetts don't give a fuck about this health care bill to pass. We have enough issues as it is. Blue Cross Blue Shield, Cigna, Tufts, Humana, etc etc etc would severely change their coverage half of you guys would then get pissed. So yeah, I would worry. Blue Cross used to cover a ton of things. Once Massachusetts passed their own health care reform, they really cut back on what was covered. So no... your "private" health care would definitely be at stake.

[Tragedy]

of course not. they would give you that plan for free!











cough higher taxes fine print cough

[Steamer]

We still couldn't even begin to cover costs with the new system in taxes. 2009 averaged 900 Billion in health costs, with the new reform we "could" have covered 90 billion worth of that in taxes alleviate 1% of total cost. Keep in mind annual rates on health care rises ~7% per year...

I saw some famous politician quotes... my fav...

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin

[inthebutt]

The health care your getting now would change everything you're getting at the "private" sector. Hence why people in Massachusetts don't give a fuck about this health care bill to pass. We have enough issues as it is. Blue Cross Blue Shield, Cigna, Tufts, Humana, etc etc etc would severely change their coverage half of you guys would then get pissed. So yeah, I would worry. Blue Cross used to cover a ton of things. Once Massachusetts passed their own health care reform, they really cut back on what was covered. So no... your "private" health care would definitely be at stake.

well if my company decided to change its health care plan and charge more for it. people would really put into action to burn this mother fucker down lol.

[loka]

There is people that swear by MassHealth is the greatest free health care ever. Covers dental, medical, vision, etc. This was the result of the Health Care bill. I think perspective states should come up with their own resolve for those who aren't covered by health insurance. Problem with private health care is (this applies when I was covered with my mom) is that dental and vision was separate, and many companies do this. The state funded health covered everything and it was FREE. No co-payments. This is the hilarity of the health care in Massachusetts.

[inthebutt]

There is people that swear by MassHealth is the greatest free health care ever. Covers dental, medical, vision, etc. This was the result of the Health Care bill. I think perspective states should come up with their own resolve for those who aren't covered by health insurance. Problem with private health care is (this applies when I was covered with my mom) is that dental and vision was separate, and many companies do this. The state funded health covered everything and it was FREE. No co-payments. This is the hilarity of the health care in Massachusetts.

I have health, vision and dental all in one package.

includes minor and major sugeries but it won't cover cosmetic surgery.

covers ER and Urgent care as well.

my copay is $30 and monthly cost is only $276 for a single, non smoker and in excellent health.

[su - root]

As a former democrat and current independent, I was kind of liking Kennedy. I like his ideas about reducing then eliminating welfare and other such government programs. Unfortunately here in MA half the single moms make their money from that system by popping out as many kids as they can before they hit 25.

Bleh, anyhow. This election I actually didn't vote, which is a miracle for me lol. I'm sick and I got my computer parts in today so I was busy being blech and playing.


There is people that swear by MassHealth is the greatest free health care ever. Covers dental, medical, vision, etc. This was the result of the Health Care bill. I think perspective states should come up with their own resolve for those who aren't covered by health insurance. Problem with private health care is (this applies when I was covered with my mom) is that dental and vision was separate, and many companies do this. The state funded health covered everything and it was FREE. No co-payments. This is the hilarity of the health care in Massachusetts.

..dude you have to make like 14k a year as a single person with no kids to be eligible.

I use the subsidized Mass Health Connector program and pay about 300 a month for great insurance. It's Harvard Pilgrim, which is one of the best, and has great co-pays for everything from checkups to inpatient care.

EDIT: Oh and it comes with a basic vision plan, and my dental, while separate, costs me maybe $300 a year.

[loka]

My co-pay was 20 a visit. Pay $250 for any surgeries (since 250 is the amount it costs for admittance). Prescriptions ranged from $1-30 dollars. $100 for ER visits. All this versus MassHealth that is free.

[su - root]

My co-pay was 20 a visit. Pay $250 for any surgeries (since 250 is the amount it costs for admittance). Prescriptions ranged from $1-30 dollars. $100 for ER visits. All this versus MassHealth that is free.

Understood, so you save a few grand.. but you make nothing to be eligible.

So if I spend 300 a month x 12 months that's $3600 a year. If i make $50k a year, and health insurance takes $3600, I'm still waaaaay the fuck above $14k.

I'll stick with paying, thx ;)

[loka]

As a former democrat and current independent, I was kind of liking Kennedy. I like his ideas about reducing then eliminating welfare and other such government programs. Unfortunately here in MA half the single moms make their money from that system by popping out as many kids as they can before they hit 25.

Bleh, anyhow. This election I actually didn't vote, which is a miracle for me lol. I'm sick and I got my computer parts in today so I was busy being blech and playing.



..dude you have to make like 14k a year as a single person with no kids to be eligible.

I use the subsidized Mass Health Connector program and pay about 300 a month for great insurance. It's Harvard Pilgrim, which is one of the best, and has great co-pays for everything from checkups to inpatient care.

EDIT: Oh and it comes with a basic vision plan, and my dental, while separate, costs me maybe $300 a year.

Oh people lie to get Mass Health. My dad is an accountant/CPA does taxes etc etc. Those people will lie about how much they make just to take advantage of Mass Health. It's disturbing.

Edit: I can get Mass Health right now for being "unemployed" until my military health kicks in. My friend has Mass Health because she has a baby. Like you said unwed single moms take advantage both of welfare and Mass Health.

Double Edit: I just checked... for coverage in Mass health standard you have to make a minimum of 6K a year single.

[-=NYS=- C.O.]

I love my NYS Blue Cross and BLue Shield. I also have GHI Preferred PPO for Dental in which I don't pay for any surgeries or anything. I'm just limited to certain things. The few perks for working for the state.

[Mallissin]

I'm all for a majority of the reforms, since they'll most likely save me money over the long term (either in premiums or expenses). I don't like the government provided option that a lot of far left Democrats want. But I'm worried Republicans will take the small victory and over blow it, completely derailing the efforts. If that happens, it would be a great loss.

The New York Times had a good article about the history of health care reform.

http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/108617/centrist-and-yet-not-unified

It's mentioned that Ted Kennedy regretted not supporting NIXON'S (!!) attempt at health care reform because of political squabbling.

I'm hoping Brown can learn from his predecessor's mistakes and not allow his victory be used to derail helpful changes for the sake of party ego and deprive the nation of the efficiencies the bill would add.

[OMGBEARS]

The thing that some people fail to see is that a Public option would not STRIP you of your private health care. It would provide an option for you if you weren't happy with your current healthcare or couldn't afford healthcare to begin with. It would be paid for by people buying into the system primarily. It would be almost budget neutral save the government subsidies provided to people who couldn't otherwise afford the premiums (which would be marginally less due to lack of having to pay for advertising and overhead). Subsidies are provided to farmers, to the oil industry, to banks, to insurance companies, but not the american public for providing for their well being. OKAY RIGHT.

Besides, if you pay for private insurance now you're actually OVERPAYING for people who don't have insurance. Doctors have to treat people who come into the ER whether or not they have insurance (federal law). What this means for you and others is that they insert their additional costs into bills for other people. The money has to come from somewhere, and it comes from people with insurance.

Also, there are studies that support preventative care saving money in the long run. The preventative care provided by an affordible public option or by a single-payor system would actually end up saving americans money as a whole, and making the public healthier as a result.

I can't afford health care myself, I'm one of the 30 million in the same situation. I'm pretty much banking on the fact I'm 23 and have the fortitude of an ox. Do you know what would happen if I got sick at all? I would be slapped with a bill that I would be unable to pay and end up homeless. This means that besides the fact that IBIS would lose an admin (most major thing, really), I would be fucked for the rest of my life. Because I can't afford private health insurance. Bump that shit.

Also -- do you pay for police protection? Do you pay for fire protection? Not directly, but you do. These are basic things that should always be provided to you, and something that shouldn't NOT be provided if you can't afford it.

Yes. I'm liberal.

[Pink]

I have strong feeling about this since its written that our government takes care of the people well being of the people and yet Republicans try to ruin and destroy public health care option. Before health insurance was around the town doctors worked well, treated the poor and asked little form them those that made more paid more. Now its the poor that pay more for health insurance and the rich pay little to nothing, that doesn't seem right.


US Constitution, Amendment IX, Amedment VI cl.2
Ratified by 11 states on December 15, 1791. First US federal law.

The first paragraph of our first federal law mentions six goals towards which this first (and all future laws?) are directed. These five goals are the reasons we have a government: (1) to establish Justice, (2) insure domestic tranquility, (3) provide for the common defense, (4) promote the general Welfare and (5) secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.


United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
and Article 25: Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

I was looking for a quote didnt find the one I wanted but these are just a few that support my view.


you know why I don't care about this health bill??

because I have a great health plan with my company and I'm pretty sure the government couldn't give me any of these benefits for the price that I get them at.
If the public option is done right it would work just as well and have low cost. If every one paid there monthly fee, no different groups just one big group theres plenty of healthy people not getting sick. So theres a big pot of money for the hospital and clinics can get and we focus the preventive care for all poor and rich and the poor wont get as sick as much meaning it will keep cost low and every one healthy thats in our country. We dont need private care, general care should be given to the people. Its not even socialist since it be a benefit from our government. It be the same as having public school and roads, those are all benefits.