002 Human Alliance [0] v1.1.0

[ZERO]

Human Alliance
Required Level: 0
Levels per ability: 8
Item Restrictions: cloak
6878Stormwind Cloak: Makes you partially invisible, 62-37%
6939Devotion Aura: Gives you additional 15-50 health each round
6880Bash: Have a 15-32% chance to render an enemy immobile for 1 second
6881Teleportation: Allows you to teleport to where you aim, range is 60-108 feet



The noble warriors of humanity are masters of defense and siege. Armed with a Stormwind Cloak to avoid detection and with a powerful Devotion Aura spell granting additional health the Human Alliance is very hard to kill. The powers of Bash and Teleportation allow it to trap its prey, move in for the kill and then escape unharmed.


http://www.ibisgaming.com/wcs_stats/player.php?id=11860



1.0.0

Initial Release


1.0.1

Restricted cloak of shadows


1.0.2

Updated in game descriptions


1.0.3

Updated to prevent ultimate use if within 30ft of an immunity.


1.0.4

Confirmed CODE is 100% same as 1.0.3


1.0.5

Reprogramed from scratch
40% reduction in total number of lines of code (over 200 lines removed or replaced with stocks)
cloak level changed to pre OB levels
new effects
chat based ability feedback
changed bash from physical freeze to very slowed movement (so slow your frozen)
added universal teleportation failed sound
doubled checkteleport length to prevent false positives
moved teleport sound to occur on teleportation validation


1.0.6

Reduced bash length back to 1sec.


1.0.7

Fixed glitch where a failed teleport would remove the ability to teleport ever again


1.0.8

Reduced effectiveness of Stormwind Cloak


1.0.9

Added && !StrEqual(weapon,"claws",false) to hit test


1.1.0

Added a 2 second cooldown to bash. (it can only be cast once every 2 seconds)

[jssaylor2007]

Just a suggestion.

Could you make teleport decrease cooldown time per lvl?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Just a suggestion.

Could you make teleport decrease cooldown time per lvl?

it's 20 sec. same as it used to be

[jssaylor2007]

it's 20 sec. same as it used to be

same as it used to be, but im saying it might be improved by decreasing the cooldown slightly every point put into it.

[Jeimuzu]

I knew you were going to say that Aco.

I think since the Spiderman race can use the web over and over with no cooldown, the human alliance should be able to charge up to 5 teleports at a time maybe, and it takes 20 seconds for one charge.

[CYBER]

same as it used to be, but im saying it might be improved by decreasing the cooldown slightly every point put into it.

i second that. i think that the cooldown should decrease level by level until say 10 second or smthn... 20 seconds is a bit much, specially if u accidentally click it , or if the teleport failed, and well... i think it should give the human race a better ultimate against the over powered other races....
+1 for tentoes' request.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i second that. i think that the cooldown should decrease level by level until say 10 second or smthn... 20 seconds is a bit much, specially if u accidentally click it , or if the teleport failed, and well... i think it should give the human race a better ultimate against the over powered other races....
+1 for tentoes' request.

it's an intro race. it's meant to be capable, but not incredible. a good player on it will kick ass, a noob won't be left out to dry, but everyone else will find a home in the more interesting higher classes.

wait for beast if you must. beast is naturally like, 40% invis, blinds, burns, respawns, does extra damage, and teleports w/ like, a 10 second cooldown.

[CYBER]

it's an intro race. it's meant to be capable, but not incredible. a good player on it will kick ass, a noob won't be left out to dry, but everyone else will find a home in the more interesting higher classes.

wait for beast if you must. beast is naturally like, 40% invis, blinds, burns, respawns, does extra damage, and teleports w/ like, a 10 second cooldown.

doesnt matter if its an intro class... scourge for example can be strong later on...
nways i just think that the cooldown should be less, SPECIALLY because many ppl are taking home in higher races and raping the newbies.. i think the newbies should have a chance to teleport more... it just ads more fun in a game... i personally sometimes have to camp 10 seconds or walk around somewhere just so that i have a fair chance of getting my ultimate before someone jumps me...
u only get to use ur ultimate ONCE effectively in a short game ..unless using it for movement...still vote for less cooldown, for balancing reasons.

[Jeimuzu]

Not to mention the 10 second cooldown when you spawn is ridiculous. It should be removed because shadow hunter can use his ultimate when he respawns.

[maynard]

these race threads aren't up 2 debate how the classes should work. everything is going 2 be set back 2 exactly what it was before. these threads are here 2 discuss any glitches or problems the races are having and 2 get them back 2 exactly what they were before, and what things were before was a beautiful balance...

ppl need 2 stop talking about whats OP and not balanced based on what is currently out. unless you've seen all the races, you can't claim things are OP or not balanced correctly cause the balancing of a WCS server is based on ALL the races, not just what's out at the current time cause we gotta fix the rest

be patient:wtg:, in time the races will be back, and things will be great.

[Masskid]

Honestly Human doesn't need to be buffed anymore, the change to instant teleport made human become more of a offensive class, before you could just follow where they flew now you can disappear and flank so it really doesn't need to be buffed any more

[CYBER]

these race threads aren't up 2 debate how the classes should work. everything is going 2 be set back 2 exactly what it was before. these threads are here 2 discuss any glitches or problems the races are having and 2 get them back 2 exactly what they were before, and what things were before was a beautiful balance...

ppl need 2 stop talking about whats OP and not balanced based on what is currently out. unless you've seen all the races, you can't claim things are OP or not balanced correctly cause the balancing of a WCS server is based on ALL the races, not just what's out at the current time cause we gotta fix the rest

be patient:wtg:, in time the races will be back, and things will be great.

true but the other races compared to this one have a slight edge, with better skills and ultimate, heck thats why u have to earn ur way to them.
the only decent thing this race has in the bash, i gotta admit its effect is almost garanteed.
we're not asking for anything impossible, we're asking for a reduce of cooldown in between them, specially if for some reason u use ur ultimate, get glitched somewhere and end up not moving to where u wanted.
also i agree with james, the first 10 sec cooldown on spawn is ridiculous, specially if someone is camping ur body, u need to get a chance to teleport away and THEN be skillfull.

[Masskid]

the only decent thing this race has in the bash,

we're not asking for anything impossible, we're asking for a reduce of cooldown in between them

also i agree with james, the first 10 sec cooldown on spawn is ridiculous,

1st off the bash isnt the only decent thing i do believe teleport is way better

2nd reducing the cooldown will make it over powered (look at me, i can go on long streaks with a cooldown of 20 i do think its overpowered already, but then again it keeps the beginning races balanced)

3rd yea that 10 second cool down at spawn is kinda ridiculous >.< can we make it the same time as the spawn timer?

[jonny5v]

Ability to stack Cloak of Shadows on top of the cloak already provided. Makes it even harder to see. It can be either restricted, or a new item can be create that makes cloaked individuals appear.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Ability to stack Cloak of Shadows on top of the cloak already provided. Makes it even harder to see. It can be either restricted, or a new item can be create that makes cloaked individuals appear.

this. i believe the ol version actually OVERWROTE the racial invis. (cloak gives about 40% invis, human caps out at like 60%. buying cloak as human used to make you only 40% invis, instead of 60%)

i think for simplicity, you should just restrict cloak from any type of partial-invis races zero.

[ZERO]

If there is a request for it then it will be done. I will make sure new races have it on release.

[ZERO]

1.0.1

Restricted cloak of shadows

[ZERO]

1.0.2


Updated in game descriptions

[acolyte_to_jippity]

did you screw w/ teleport at all? it's nowhere near as precise anymore. before i could spawn as ct on crackhouse, shoot out the boards on second floor window, and teleport into hostie room with no problem. now, i can't. mi have to be almost in line w/ the window to make it.

[ZERO]

From the old version or the current one?

[ZERO]

YEa found a small bug, it is now patched will take effect next reboot.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

From the old version or the current one?

whut?

[ZERO]

nvm it is already fixed

[CYBER]

lolz...

[BlindGam3r]

Maybe its just that Im annoyed today and have a headache, but I seriously hate how bash throws your crosshair off, even when standing still (when receiving bash, I mean)

It says the activation chance is 33%, again maybe its just because Im annoyed but to me it seems more like 50%. Im always immediatly bashed at the start of a fight, which then throws my aim off, and god forbid Im bashed a second time. I dont know if this is intended or just a tiny bug or whatever but if possible I think it should be removed. Bash in my eyes is skill designed to limit movement, not completely nulify you in long range battles

E.G Im crouching waiting for someone to come round the corner, I have the advantage of preaiming for his head and the added accuracy of crouching. No wait, scratch that, he teleported round the corner, bashed me and sent my crosshair up and then killed me. Now obviously human isnt over powered, none of the races are, its just infuriating how an ability designed to limit movement, also completely destroys your aim. Skills like earthquake/banish etc shake or distort the screen, not move the crosshair. The fact that a skill that shouldnt have anything to do with distorting the screen is actually better than the ones that are as well as freezing is a bit stupid in my eyes

EDIT: And theres is no way of working around it. You can stop teleport with an ultimate. You can nulify the freezing by using a race that doesnt rely on speed. But there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop the crosshair jumping. Sure, get in close and spray like a mad man, but that requires a race based on speed and then theres bash again

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Maybe its just that Im annoyed today and have a headache, but I seriously hate how bash throws your crosshair off, even when standing still (when receiving bash, I mean)

It says the activation chance is 33%, again maybe its just because Im annoyed but to me it seems more like 50%. Im always immediatly bashed at the start of a fight, which then throws my aim off, and god forbid Im bashed a second time. I dont know if this is intended or just a tiny bug or whatever but if possible I think it should be removed. Bash in my eyes is skill designed to limit movement, not completely nulify you in long range battles

E.G Im crouching waiting for someone to come round the corner, I have the advantage of preaiming for his head and the added accuracy of crouching. No wait, scratch that, he teleported round the corner, bashed me and sent my crosshair up and then killed me. Now obviously human isnt over powered, none of the races are, its just infuriating how an ability designed to limit movement, also completely destroys your aim. Skills like earthquake/banish etc shake or distort the screen, not move the crosshair. The fact that a skill that shouldnt have anything to do with distorting the screen is actually better than the ones that are as well as freezing is a bit stupid in my eyes

EDIT: And theres is no way of working around it. You can stop teleport with an ultimate. You can nulify the freezing by using a race that doesnt rely on speed. But there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop the crosshair jumping. Sure, get in close and spray like a mad man, but that requires a race based on speed and then theres bash again

i think shadow hunter can give immunity/resistance to skills.

and congratulations, you've discovered that human is actually pretty powerful

[BlindGam3r]

i think shadow hunter can give immunity/resistance to skills.


I think you mean the warden, and its 'Blink Immunity' ability. Its the same as a necklace, it prevents ultimates, not skills

And yea, human always has been powerful in the right hands I know that.

[ZERO]

No he is referring to evade which can avoid skills.

[BlindGam3r]

Oh cool, thought hex slowed the enemy, didnt realise it was changed to evading skills

[ZERO]

1.0.3

Updated to prevent ultimate use if within 30ft of an immunity.

[Sword of Gideon]

Is it possible to revisit teleport ultimate charge times again?
I'm used to 2 seconds. 20 is quite a bit.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Is it possible to revisit teleport ultimate charge times again?
I'm used to 2 seconds. 20 is quite a bit.

what do you mean "used to"?

[Sword of Gideon]

Well, consider spiderman race. There's no recharge time. Or even archmage, a very short time. Vagabond can bounce around quite well with teleport. 20 seconds feels like FOREVER!!

[maynard]

it's a starting race... if there was no charge time on humans tele it would be BEYOND over powered. WCS is a balancing issue... spiderman is incredibly easy 2 kill if you're athena, human, shadowhunter and a few others.. vegabond can be much harder, but you can only have 1 per team.

[Sword of Gideon]

It's my favorite race. There's really nothing out there like human alliance. You aren't pigeon-holed into one gun or no gun, have invisibility, and teleport. I just wish that the teleport was a little more useful. I figured that I would kind of fight for my favorite race being better, but I do see your point about the start-up race thing.

[BladeTwinSwords]

It's my favorite race. There's really nothing out there like human alliance. You aren't pigeon-holed into one gun or no gun, have invisibility, and teleport. I just wish that the teleport was a little more useful. I figured that I would kind of fight for my favorite race being better, but I do see your point about the start-up race thing.

Exactly, why the fuck would we make an already strong race even stronger. Especially when a few people play nothing BUT human. Spiderman will be toned town when Jack is released and the Scrolls go to 6000.

[B1ackOut]

Besides spiderman and vagabond don't really instantly teleport. they just fly to a specific spot really fast, human can have more of an element of surprise as it is also slightly invisible and can be right in front of you to right behind you.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

does human teleport even blind you anymore?

[ZERO]

I do not think so as if it does it is not supposed to as that was one of the things I had wanted changed. :smirk:

[Masskid]

does human teleport even blind you anymore?

no it does not... and gideon i dont care if your not use to it, why would we change it just for you? The teleport is basicly the most overpowered ultimate in the game if used right. So if you ask me more time should be added and not subtracted >.<

[BladeTwinSwords]

no it does not... and gideon i dont care if your not use to it, why would we change it just for you? The teleport is basicly the most overpowered ultimate in the game if used right. So if you ask me more time should be added and not subtracted >.<

Don't forget that Beast also has a teleport.

[Spasm]

I love this race and I think the cooldown is just fine. Combine this race with helmet and health and your sitting at 200 hp without the chance of being headshot

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I do not think so as if it does it is not supposed to as that was one of the things I had wanted changed. :smirk:

why? it was fine. everyone complained, but it kept the balance correct.

[ZERO]

It was actually a glitch that effected multiple races on the old version it was actually fixed a few weeks before valve blew up everything.

[maynard]

yup yup

original human never had the flash, and it was short lived when it did happen.

[Masskid]

Don't forget that Beast also has a teleport.

i mean the instant teleport... if beast has that teleport then we are all fucked >.<

[Penis シ]

Noticed that shotgun is a VERY weighted weapon for this race.

Idk if it's the percentages being off or the way valve changed shotty to work, but because it has a 32% chance to bash, a shotgun makes it an insta bash every shot.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Noticed that shotgun is a VERY weighted weapon for this race.

Idk if it's the percentages being off or the way valve changed shotty to work, but because it has a 32% chance to bash, a shotgun makes it an insta bash every shot.

always has. it's why shotguns were one of themost popular weaps on the old server, along with glocks, silenced usp's and FiveseveN's. the server used to be more proc-based, with people trying to proc their abilities.

[Rosie]

Noticed that shotgun is a VERY weighted weapon for this race.

Idk if it's the percentages being off or the way valve changed shotty to work, but because it has a 32% chance to bash, a shotgun makes it an insta bash every shot.

If the shotguns was using Buckshot this would be correct. Each shot should be 5 to 6 pellets, and therfore instabash. (I was unaware of this though and I will exploit in the future.)

[ZERO]

1.0.4
Confirmed CODE is 100% same as 1.0.3

[Spasm]

Bash: Have a 15-32% chance to render an enemy immobile for 1 second
I don't believe this is working as described. As it is right now, it locks up your aim as well as making you immobile. Considering how human is the best race by far, I think this needs looking into. It is also acting like a banish in the way that it moves your crosshair when hit by it.

[Spasm]

Maynard and I tested human on the test server and on the test server it works correctly. Zero human on the regular wcs server human is getting a banish hit added to the bash. It's getting a banish hit without the crazy screen being messed up. It does everything else banish does though. It is moving your aim and locking it up just like blood mage banish. Maybe you can compare the code from the test server and the regular server and figure out why the test server works right and the regular server does not.

[Erdenay]

Maynard and I tested human on the test server and on the test server it is works correctly. Zero human on the regular wcs server human is getting a banish hit added to the bash. It's getting a banish hit without the crazy screen being messed up. It does everything else banish does though. It is moving your aim and locking it up just like blood mage banish. Maybe you can compare the code from the test server and the regular server and figure out why the test server works right and the regular server does not.

Just tested this with Spasm - he's 100% correct. It works normally on the test server - I.A. doesn't fuck up aim along with movement. I'm looking forward to reverting human to its original form - this will go a long way to balance the server.

[ZERO]

They are exactly the same on the test server and on the actual server...

MD5:
Real: 5B0B00157B5E3199A8C80D55FD187D30
Test: 5B0B00157B5E3199A8C80D55FD187D30

SHA1:
Real: B65FD9053940099425F01FDFDA9FF930D13A191F
Test: B65FD9053940099425F01FDFDA9FF930D13A191F

CRC32:
Real: A53DFB23
Test: A53DFB23

[Spasm]

Zero I dunno, the effect is def different on the test server then it is on the live server. It is doing a banish effect on the live server and on the test it does not. It is locking your aim up and moving it, just as if you were hit by a blood mage banish.

[Erdenay]

Zero I dunno, the effect is def different on the test server then it is on the live server. It is doing a banish effect on the live server and on the test it does not. It is locking your aim up and moving it, just as if you were hit by a blood mage banish.

This. In the test server, even if you get hit bash and you get stuck in one place, your aim isn't completely fucked up and you can still fight and shoot back normally and kill the human whereas in the actual wcs if you get hit with bash, it fucks up your aim badly and you will normally die in the process.

[Akoiah]

i agree. not only does it banish you, it literally freezes your crosshair, making it impossible to move it until bash wears off. if it procs more than once, youre basically screwed.

[Akoiah]

I think the problem lies in the freezing. The same sort of thing happens occasionally when you pop molecule shield while running around. The targeting/crosshair acts as if you are in the air and shooting. I think to fix this, human's bash should work by slowing run speed to as close to 0% as possible for the duration of bash. (like .00001% speed). This would effectively make bash "freeze" people in place without messing up their aiming.

[ZERO]

Then bash would no longer fuck races that are flying though the air at high speeds creating rick of death upon unfreeze.

[HypeRNT]

Then bash would no longer fuck races that are flying though the air at high speeds creating rick of death upon unfreeze.

awwwww

[CYBER]

Then bash would no longer fuck races that are flying though the air at high speeds creating rick of death upon unfreeze.
*hops on vagas*

[brett friggin favre]

rick of death

oh COME ON i can't be the only one who thought about this...and shopped it...

[Akoiah]

:banghead:

[Chikun]

oh COME ON i can't be the only one who thought about this...and shopped it...

I read it as though the "s" was there. I usually don't notice things like that unless it gets really bad, like if Cyber posts. :smirk:

Leave Human alone!

[CYBER]

I read it as though the "s" was there. I usually don't notice things like that unless it gets really bad, like if Cyber posts. :smirk:Leave Human alone!Hey fuck u.almost All my posts are from cell, it gets tidious to double check shit on an iphone...

[Chikun]

Hey fuck you. Almost all of my posts are from cell, it gets tidious to double check shit on an Iphone...

It's ok Cyber I love you too. :lmao:

[Spasm]

I read it as though the "s" was there. I usually don't notice things like that unless it gets really bad, like if Cyber posts. :smirk:

Leave Human alone!

It's not working right and currently imo the best race on the server thanks to the glitch...

[Spasm]

Then bash would no longer fuck races that are flying though the air at high speeds creating rick of death upon unfreeze.

So what, I think I have never died because of that. The race is broken and it is almost pathetic how OP bash is. 200 HP, Helm, Lace, Cloak, Teleport + a bash that freezes you, freezes your cross-hair, and moves your cross-hair. It should be mentioned even without any items whatsoever, human is still difficult to kill. A Human with a lace and a usp is still better then most races.

You can literally hide almost anywhere any corner, and if your even remotely a good shot, you will kill your target. How can they even respond when they can't aim move or really do jack shit. If by some miracle it doesn't glitch or no bash proc, then you have to chip through 200 hp without a headshot, good luck doing that before getting bashed again. There is literally tons of people that play nothing but this race, it's a starter race, it shouldn't be the best race you can play.

In my opinion even if bash was completely removed from human, human would still be one of the best races. I think I speak on the behalf of quite a few wcs players that this race needs to be seriously looked at.

[Erdenay]

So what, I think I have never died because of that. The race is broken and it is almost pathetic how OP bash is. 200 HP, Helm, Lace, Cloak, Teleport + a bash that freezes you, freezes your cross-hair, and moves your cross-hair. It should be mentioned even without any items whatsoever, human is still difficult to kill. A Human with a lace and a usp is still better then most races.

You can literally hide almost anywhere any corner, and if your even remotely a good shot, you will kill your target. How can they even respond when they can't aim move or really do jack shit. If by some miracle it doesn't glitch or no bash proc, then you have to chip through 200 hp without a headshot, good luck doing that before getting bashed again. There is literally tons of people that play nothing but this race, it's a starter race, it shouldn't be the best race you can play.

In my opinion even if bash was completely removed from human, human would still be one of the best races. I think I speak on the behalf of quite a few wcs players that this race needs to be seriously looked at.

Completely agreed with this. I wouldn't go as far as to say that bash needs to be completely removed, but would it be possible to just take out banish out of bash so it would work properly? There's never going to be complete and perfect balanced - nor would we want that. However, I would have to agree with Spasm here - as of now, human is indeed a broken race.

[CYBER]

I have to agree with the fuckers here...
I used to not give a flying fuck about Human because i didn't see the potential this race had. After playing around smart with the race, i have to agree that the current bash is over powered as fuckity-fuck-fuck! (i mean i love using it myself, but i still think it's unfair)

Bash itself should freeze you for that 1 second. it should NOT proc a banish on your ass as well. it should make u stumble, sure, but not COMPLETELY lock ur crosshair!
I mean for heaven's sake i saw spasm standing still by a molecule shield, and throwing a grenade that literally jerked and fell 10 feet away from him because his crosshair got locked... and spasm never fucking misses lol...

I wont go as far as completely removing the bash, it is a VERY essential skill for the skill, more-so that the race's invis, tele or health...
However i do ask that it does NOT fuck up ur aiming by locking ur crosshair.

I see that zero is concerned about bash vs flyers. And i have to agree that that is one of the most important reasons why i play humans: to counter flyers and vagas and flame pred ... And the bash+banish is very handy.. but not fair. I have YET to see a santa slam to ground because of a bash.


My suggestion: Remove the BANISH EFFECT of the bash, and increase the bash freeze time by 50%. (make it closer to a second and a half rather than the current 1 second).

WHY you ask? to compensate removing the banish effect. A 1.5s bash that procs at the current rate is more than handy to be used in the same manner against the above mentionned victim races, but AT LEAST THE ENEMY HAS A CHANCE TO AIM AND RETALIATE WHILE FROZEN WITHOUT HAVING A LOCKED CROSSHAIR.

Anyone in favor/

[Spasm]

My suggestion: Remove the BANISH EFFECT of the bash, and increase the bash freeze time by 50%. (make it closer to a second and a half rather than the current 1 second).

WHY you ask? to compensate removing the banish effect. A 1.5s bash that procs at the current rate is more than handy to be used in the same manner against the above mentionned victim races, but AT LEAST THE ENEMY HAS A CHANCE TO AIM AND RETALIATE WHILE FROZEN WITHOUT HAVING A LOCKED CROSSHAIR.

Anyone in favor/

It shouldn't need to be compensated just because the skill is fixed. If zero can't fix it then I do think it needs to be removed. As long as bash works correctly i.e. just freezing you, it will still be more then effective agaisnt vagas. It's one thing to play against a race thats good like molecule. With molecule you can play to counter it, with human one bash glitch proc and your dead on almost any race.

[CYBER]

[QUOTE=Spasm;145401]It shouldn't need to be compensated just because the skill is fixed. If zero can't fix it then I do think it needs to be removed. As long as bash works correctly i.e. just freezing you, it will still be more then effective agaisnt vagas. It's one thing to play against a race thats good like molecule. With molecule you can play to counter it, with human one bash glitch proc and your dead on almost any race.[/QUOTE

I only suggested the increase of 50% freezetime on bash just to find middle grounds between zero and the rest of us, so that this issue at least moves SOMEWHERE. I dont think i would mind being frozen for 1.5 seconds as long as i am able to counter-attack.

but as far as logic goes? you're right, 1 sec freeze is more than enough to fuck up most races, SPECIALLY if you take into account the possibility of bash procing more than once and stacking.

ZERO, please man, this is a real problem.

[Spasm]

[QUOTE=Spasm;145401]It shouldn't need to be compensated just because the skill is fixed. If zero can't fix it then I do think it needs to be removed. As long as bash works correctly i.e. just freezing you, it will still be more then effective agaisnt vagas. It's one thing to play against a race thats good like molecule. With molecule you can play to counter it, with human one bash glitch proc and your dead on almost any race.[/QUOTE

I only suggested the increase of 50% freezetime on bash just to find middle grounds between zero and the rest of us, so that this issue at least moves SOMEWHERE. I dont think i would mind being frozen for 1.5 seconds as long as i am able to counter-attack.

but as far as logic goes? you're right, 1 sec freeze is more than enough to fuck up most races, SPECIALLY if you take into account the possibility of bash procing more than once and stacking.

ZERO, please man, this is a real problem.

Most people want it either fixed or nerfed, the only people that would want a 50% increase to bash time is the people that play nothing but the race. I applaud you for supporting me, but don't take things out of context. Even if bash worked 100 percent correctly I would still make a great case for it still being the best race.

[CYBER]

[QUOTE=CYBER;145402]

Most people want it either fixed or nerfed, the only people that would want a 50% increase to bash time is the people that play nothing but the race. I applaud you for supporting me, but don't take things out of context. Even if bash worked 100 percent correctly I would still make a great case for it still being the best race.

like i said, for me i dont play human all the time, or in excess *cough* britney, tom, YOU etc...*
I prefer to play vagas, crypt lords, nebulas, shadow hunter, MAYBE molecule (respectively).

The ONLY times i ever play human is when my team is dead useless in countering other very strong races and i am forced to play the race to balance shit out and counter them, or if the map is similar to dolls, and both vagas on my team are taken...

And yet, i still see that the race's bash needs fixing or nerfing, even if it is the sole reason why i would play human in the first place.
It is actually NOT in my interest to have the bash get the 50% increase in freezetime, as it be even harder to play against using my above mentionned preferred races, I merely suggested it because it just feels like this issue is being ignored for fear the race would be a lot weaker... althought im sure it will still hold its own more than enough.

edit: spasm/ da fuck did u do to the "post quoting" that fucked both ur post and mine ?-.-

[Erdenay]

Most people want it either fixed or nerfed, the only people that would want a 50% increase to bash time is the people that play nothing but the race. I applaud you for supporting me, but don't take things out of context. Even if bash worked 100 percent correctly I would still make a great case for it still being the best race.

Agreed. Even if banish would be out of bash, it would still be one of the best, if not the best race in the server.


like i said, for me i dont play human all the time, or in excess *cough* britney, tom, YOU etc...*
I prefer to play vagas, crypt lords, nebulas, shadow hunter, MAYBE molecule (respectively).

The ONLY times i ever play human is when my team is dead useless in countering other very strong races and i am forced to play the race to balance shit out and counter them, or if the map is similar to dolls, and both vagas on my team are taken...

And yet, i still see that the race's bash needs fixing or nerfing, even if it is the sole reason why i would play human in the first place.
It is actually NOT in my interest to have the bash get the 50% increase in freezetime, as it be even harder to play against using my above mentionned preferred races, I merely suggested it because it just feels like this issue is being ignored for fear the race would be a lot weaker... althought im sure it will still hold its own more than enough.

edit: spasm/ da fuck did u do to the "post quoting" that fucked both ur post and mine ?-.-

Britney mostly plays spider and seldomly plays human. Recently, I've barely used human as well - as I've had much more fun using other races to help my team OR human wasn't working and I was forced to use nebula or some other race like that.

As far as your suggestion making it worse for those races... No, incorrect. The only race that would be in a worse state as before would be vaga... And it's not like now it's that difficult to kill them. All of the other races would become stronger counters. There's no need for an increased timer for bash - just take out the banish.

[CYBER]

Britney mostly plays spider and seldomly plays human.


vaga... And it's not like now it's that difficult to kill them. All of the other races would become stronger counters. There's no need for an increased timer for bash - just take out the banish.

1- britney hasnt played spidey since it got nerfed. heck i was just talking to her and she confirms it (u know, other than the fact i've seen it with my own eyes for a while...), just an fyi.

2- i concur with the second part. vagas arent that hard to hunt: me , u, britney, and some others are actually some of the BETTER (maybe not best), but BETTER vaga hunters if we play right. Human has jack shit to do with it, except that it just adds a bit more "obstacles" with the current bash...
but i do agree with both of u that bash on its own is more than enough. again, i suggested the 50% increase in time just in case someone needed middle ground.

[Spasm]

1- britney hasnt played spidey since it got nerfed. heck i was just talking to her and she confirms it (u know, other than the fact i've seen it with my own eyes for a while...), just an fyi.

2- i concur with the second part. vagas arent that hard to hunt: me , u, britney, and some others are actually some of the BETTER (maybe not best), but BETTER vaga hunters if we play right. Human has jack shit to do with it, except that it just adds a bit more "obstacles" with the current bash...
but i do agree with both of u that bash on its own is more than enough. again, i suggested the 50% increase in time just in case someone needed middle ground.

When I play vaga it's not the bash that gets me usually, its the invis.

[Masskid]

Bla Bla Bla

[CYBER]

When I play vaga it's not the bash that gets me usually, its the invis.
then u're not playing vaga right.
yeah. i said it whorebiscuit.
go back to ur medieval human and molecule races, and camp inside, that's all you can do when I'm on my good vaga days.
<3

[Steamer]

Orb Of Frost....

*Walks away and whistles*

[>>>Shots<<<]

Bla Bla Bla
this this this :D

[Spasm]

this this this :D

If you have nothing of use to add to the thread then maybe you should spend your worthless life looking at something else?

[>>>Shots<<<]

If you have nothing of use to add to the thread then maybe you should spend your worthless life looking at something else?
My previous post indicates that I'm neutral on the position of nerfing human. Human, according to psychostats, has less k/d in total than that of shadow hunter, jack, molecule, spider man. So perhaps this indicates the race itself is not op. It really depends on the player+team you're playing up against. However, nerfing this race or not doesn't really matter to me.

[What]

Human is a skill race that takes some thought and planning to actually use well. We have all been killed by lucky shots that bashed us long enough to get domed, but many people prefer shadow hunter or jack since their advantages and abilities are more blatantly good, and easier to use. Human can be a beast with the right items and strategy, mainly hanging back and hiding to kill when the killings good *cough* Tom *cough*. That being said, its not just sour grapes that are causing some of the best players on the server to want the race fixed which is the main point, bash is not working the way it ought to. I'm personally fine with the banish thing if thats just too much of a pain in the ass to get out of the system, but you have to be able to move your crosshair. Being stopped is still a huge advantage to the other player, but it puts more onous on the shooter to actually play smarter if his enemy can still shoot at him.

Also, to fix the banish thing, couldn't you just replace the bash code with the spider man web shooter or Xonvert freeze code? I don't think I've heard of anyone complaining those skills cause a banish effect and they are essentially the same.

[Masskid]

One of the strongest shopmenu items for human is claw not orb of frost. Orb of frost slows them while claw 2x proc the bash which I'm sure all of us can agree is the most powerful shit ever. Claw human glock is actually op.... Weird...

Everyone always seems to forget about claw >.> I'm like the only person that uses it

[Spasm]

One of the strongest shopmenu items for human is claw not orb of frost. Orb of frost slows them while claw 2x proc the bash which I'm sure all of us can agree is the most powerful shit ever. Claw human glock is actually op.... Weird...

Everyone always seems to forget about claw >.> I'm like the only person that uses it

Because helm is such a better option then having a better chance at a bash proc.

[Erdenay]

One of the strongest shopmenu items for human is claw not orb of frost. Orb of frost slows them while claw 2x proc the bash which I'm sure all of us can agree is the most powerful shit ever. Claw human glock is actually op.... Weird...

Everyone always seems to forget about claw >.> I'm like the only person that uses it

Not quite the only one, but claw works better for some other races better, IMHO. Besides, it really depends on the map and the way that the game is processing - if I know that my team is losing (or barely winning) and I know that I'm likely to be the main determinant, I will choose health/lace/helm as it grants the best survivability along with best chances of successfully killing all other plays. HOWEVER, if my team is doing well and I will likely only need to take care of some players, I may change the combination.

[Masskid]

Because helm is such a better option then having a better chance at a bash proc.
well spasm all im trying to say is that no race should be doing well glock only >.<

[Spasm]

well spasm all im trying to say is that no race should be doing well glock only >.< you were pointing out that no one uses claw and I was stating why.

Steamer if orb is doing the same thing then it needs looked at as well, a freeze in place proc should not be freezing and moving your crosshair, regardless of where its used.

[SCRIBBLE]

Orb, claw, ring with silenced USP/M4. With that combo it's no worse than 30:1 KDR any map.

[LunaTick]

May I make suggestions though?

I feel that the Periapt of Health should be restricted on Human Alliance (and any race with a health buff for that matter).
The human has considerable support from Devotion Aura and Invisibility, I do not believe he should be able to superbuff his health.

[>>>Shots<<<]

It seems that there is a changerace glitch with human alliance. You are able to get 250 hp next round as human if you did not die this round playing on a different race (e.g. cryptlord) then changed race to human at round end and bought ring + health next round at round start.

[ZERO]

So your saying that human can get a restrected item if you got the item on your last race and then change to human?

If that is the case the glitch is with war3 and should exist on all races. Please verify as I can code a simple patch addon to correct such a exploit.

[What]

It seems that there is a changerace glitch with human alliance. You are able to get 250 hp next round as human if you did not die this round playing on a different race (e.g. cryptlord) then changed race to human at round end and bought ring + health next round at round start.

Um, what?

[>>>Shots<<<]

So your saying that human can get a restrected item if you got the item on your last race and then change to human?

If that is the case the glitch is with war3 and should exist on all races. Please verify as I can code a simple patch addon to correct such a exploit.

I guess a demo will better explain the situation.

As you can see I stayed alive during round 2 and had gotten enough money to buy ring and lace. I changed race to human at round end, then I bought the items as human on round 3 and got the 250 health increase. I also stayed alive on a different race during round 4, and then changed my race back to human for round 5 to be able to get the 250 hp.

[Spasm]

It only works on human the round after you buy the ring on a different race then swtich to it. The next round it fixes. I knew of this glitch for a while but seeing as how it costs a lot to even do, lasts for round and it isn't abused from what I have seen. I felt like it wasn't really worth ZERO's time.

[brett friggin favre]

FIX BASH: now with evidence:

in the demo attached, go to tick 3000 and watch where my bullets hit. see if you can tell when i get bashed, and what it does to my aim...

note how i'm crouched, firing in a controlled manner with a silenced usp. and note how my bullets suddenly jump to 20 feet over the dude's head.

edit: you know there's a problem with this race when this happens:
http://i.imgur.com/ZvJTLMo.jpg

[Masskid]

omg O.O is that the whole other team?

[brett friggin favre]

omg O.O is that the whole other team?

yes, and the demo shows my usp shots randomly jumping up 20 feet when bashed

[Locust]

omg O.O is that the whole other team?

Yea... and somehow i was still 15-4 at that point...

[CYBER]

You guys are martyrs...


I've always told zero that the bash is only noticed in the LIVE server, not the test server....
I don't know what exactly the problem is but there IS a problem with it... we can't ALL be seeing things... everyone who's ever been bashed reports as being banished at the same time and unable to shoot... it locks your aim...

Zero, when you're testing, u're probably standing still and spraying and not seeing any huge difference.
the idea is that you should be walking, heck even crouching or smthn, and need to try to AIM at sometihng.
Put a dot a head-shape spray on the wall, and have someone bash you while u are trying to BURST it with an AK for example. u will see a HUGEEE difference, notably u're crosshair shooting bullets WAYYY above that "head"

[StarsMine]

actually there is a reason for that, with NO bash or banish, getting hit in the head will knock your aim around. There is no banish, the bash does not move the cross hair any further then it would have when getting hit in the head. Banish will.

[brett friggin favre]

actually there is a reason for that, with NO bash or banish, getting hit in the head will knock your aim around. There is no banish, the bash does not move the cross hair any further then it would have when getting hit in the head. Banish will.

but actually as the demo shows, my crosshair wasn't moved at all. my bullets just started going 20 feet over them.

[Spasm]

but actually as the demo shows, my crosshair wasn't moved at all. my bullets just started going 20 feet over them.

I've seen it do both brett, crosshair froze, moved, shots just moved. Only does it on live server. I've seen the same thing with molecule b4 without the crosshair moving. It's best seen when you throw a nade and it goes the other direction you throw it.

[Masskid]

@Spasm the nade Flys the other way because you're momentum is locked going in one direction. @Brett the shooting pattern for the usp would never hit that high at the rate you were shooting... It's more then just locking the cross hair.

[brett friggin favre]

@Spasm the nade Flys the other way because you're momentum is locked going in one direction. @Brett the shooting pattern for the usp would never hit that high at the rate you were shooting... It's more then just locking the cross hair.

im just saying i didn't move my mouse at all, got bashed, and out of nowhere its like my recoil shot up to twice what it should be able to get up to, and you can see i actually stopped shooting, aimed further down, and the recoil was still fucked up

[brett friggin favre]

well since the bash thing isn't getting any attention i wanted to propose a return to the 1.6 style human.

i feel like the current level of invisibility on humans is TOO DAMN HIGH....except for those of you who use high-res skins. anyways the 1.6 version of the human gave that level of invisibility...sometimes. the invisibility was modified by whether or not you were moving (more invis while standing still) and also by what weapon you had out (more invis with a knife than with a gun). so camping with a knife out, you had the invisibility that we see in the current iteration, but moving and with a gun out, it was more along the lines of a standard race with a cloak, maybe even a bit more visible. i think having it that way would balance things out. as it is, if you get a human at any distance at all against any textured background, they're damn near invisible. that's fine, but if that fucker can MOVE and SHOOT while i cant see him, and if i do see him the fucker has 200 goddamn hp AND a helm....it's too much.

the 1.6 version would offer much better balance and an interesting strategy.

also i wouldn't be against the old teleport wherein the user was given a short flashbang-like effect upon teleporting. not against enemies, against themselves.

[ZERO]

I have already said that this is the next race to be repgoramed and that nothing will be done until after valve breaks the game with the pending big update. I am not going to spend weeks programing to make something valve breaks days later.

[brett friggin favre]

I have already said that this is the next race to be repgoramed and that nothing will be done until after valve breaks the game with the pending big update. I am not going to spend weeks programing to make something valve breaks days later.

i hear ya and i'm with ya, just trying to get a discussion going on the validity of the aim-fucking bash claims and on the possibility of altering the invisibility. it'll be easier to program if you have a definite idea of what you're gonna do with it

[ZERO]

I do and it is the code from the original es version of the race, now when I am "reprograming" all the races I am making them conform to the original design where they do not assuming I still intend for that. (example some races may be changed slightly from es versions b/c es versions did not work or need balance changes for OB)

[Masskid]

I do and it is the code from the original es version of the race, now when I am "reprograming" all the races I am making them conform to the original design where they do not assuming I still intend for that. (example some races may be changed slightly from es versions b/c es versions did not work or need balance changes for OB)
:( atleast keep the insta-teleport

[acolyte_to_jippity]

:( atleast keep the insta-teleport

i actually still miss the old launch-style teleport. sure, the instant one is cool, but come on. the old on was much more useful in some situations. you could cover a LOT more ground w/ it.

[Masskid]

i actually still miss the old launch-style teleport. sure, the instant one is cool, but come on. the old on was much more useful in some situations. you could cover a LOT more ground w/ it.
While that is true, the insta-teleport is what makes human strong (without bash)

[CYBER]

While that is true, the insta-teleport is what makes human strong (without bash)yeah. I agree to keep the insta-teleport human regardless of what it was before. It's good as is

[brett friggin favre]

i feel like posting another of these.

watch me at tick 43500. look at where i'm aiming compared to where my bullets hit. that's bash. it's not supposed to be doing that.

[ZERO]

Note that reprograming on this race has officially started. Some abilities % ratios will be changed higher or lower so that they will match up 100% with the original wcs server from years ago. This is the same as what was done with undead where as all abilities and effects are being made to work exactly as originally intended.

[ZERO]

Note that new version uses a extreme slow down bash for testing. This code is like the fire arrows for hell hunter but instead of reducing client speed by .5 it will reduce it by .00000000001. In theory this may help with the accuracy issues.

[ZERO]

New version is in test server now. Teleport is not yet programed.

[ZERO]

Race is now complete and ready for final release testing! Please test on the test server and post approval or issues before release.

Changes:

40% reduction in total number of lines of code (over 200 lines removed or replaced with stocks)
spawn effects from pre OB are back!
changed spawn color from green to gold
chat txt based ability feed back
altered invis ability % to reflect original pre OB values
changed bash from physical freeze to very slowed movement (so slow your frozen)
created teleportation stock
created teleportation checking stock
created universal teleportation failed sound
changed confirmation and failure messages for teleport to be chat txt instead of a hint txt
made fails of teleportation red
made teleportation work slightly better on ramps (reduced empty location errors)
block teleportation attempts to once every .5 seconds (protects againt glitches)
race is now on my code and my codebase for easy modificaton and bug fixing down the road (not that there is any bugs lol)

[brett friggin favre]

was just in there solo so no word on bash/invis yet, but the teleportation can be a bit wonky. attaching a demo wherein i repeatedly try to teleport to invalid locations. MOST of the time it stops me, but sometimes it lets me teleport and i get stuck. not sure if this has been an issue before, i've never just sat there trying to teleport to an invalid location, but i thought it was a bit peculiar.

[Blackmage]

In addition to the aforementioned teleporting into world boundaries, which I was also able to reproduce, I was pulling off the "teleport with bad Axis". Have attached myself doing it on compound, I did it to the similar building on port as well.

Notes on the teleporting into solid objects: I could not crouch. My aim didn't seem to be impaired. Tested that with both glock and scout.
Depending on where, and how thick the invisible wall was, I could teleport back, or to the other side of the wall.

Edit: Also able to teleport from inside Assault to the roof. 2: And from outside in.

[ZERO]

Ok I have returned the teleport value sets to the default values that they are on human on the live server. Please test and confirm that everything is working correctly.

[Blackmage]

Teleported into the skybox on Dust2. Will be testing on teleporting through things when I find a place.

And just duplicated Brett's trick on piranesi.

Edit: And on compound, still able to go through the roof as well. ...Wonder if this is something that could happen, but never came up on the live server. Seems odd, given how popular Human is, but possible.

Edit 2: Repeated most on port and assault.

Only thing I couldn't repeat was teleporting to the roof from the inside. Now I get "no empty location" report.

[ZERO]

In the cases when you actually get stuck are you using the teleport with it failing close together. It could be that the delay needs to be fixed to ensure that the teleport check is ready to run again.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

Ok I figured it out and I had removed some redundant code that was not redundant. I can now test with improving the teleport accuracy from there :wtg:

[ZERO]

Ok I have added a check so you can not try to teleport again until the teleport check has completed to prevent errors.

I have fixed it so that your teleport destination is now more accurate so less strange bugs.

I have doubled the check time and this appears to have removed all false positives where as sometimes you could teleport and get stuck. The downside is it now takes .04 seconds longer for a stuck teleport to reject the position.

Race is now in final release testing. Please post any new bugs so they can be fixed.

Also be sure to test out Orc when you get a chance. :wtg:

[Blackmage]

Still got myself into the wall on paranesi.

Compound, can't get it to go through the building anymore. Boundaries work better on Compound as well. I teleport up against the wall instead of going through or getting a failed message.

Port report reads the same. No through buildings, boundaries work.

Same for assault. No longer can teleport through objects.

And then I get back to dust2, and try on a lark to teleport through the skybox... The thing Piranesi and Dust2 fail teleport have in common is the fact that I get error messages. Teleport failed on both. Piranesi is easy enough to reproduce, Dust2, is much more difficult.

Beyond that teleport is working as expected, things that need 2 or more people remain, such as teleport + roots, bash and orc.

[CYBER]

Still got myself into the wall on paranesi.

Compound, can't get it to go through the building anymore. Boundaries work better on Compound as well. I teleport up against the wall instead of going through or getting a failed message.

Port report reads the same. No through buildings, boundaries work.

Same for assault. No longer can teleport through objects.

And then I get back to dust2, and try on a lark to teleport through the skybox... The thing Piranesi and Dust2 fail teleport have in common is the fact that I get error messages. Teleport failed on both. Piranesi is easy enough to reproduce, Dust2, is much more difficult.

Beyond that teleport is working as expected, things that need 2 or more people remain, such as teleport + roots, bash and orc.

i will be sitting in the wcs test server if anyone wants to join and test bash + HUMAN teleport.


because wolf and i already tested a beast trying to teleport when bashed by the new human bash,
we also tested a flyer and spiderman zip.

conclusion was that bash prevents the teleport for like 0.5 seconds and when it wears off, the teleport is made ... much like old times.
flyers get "frozen" mid air.
spidey is frozen for a split second before carrying on his merry way.


as for the HUMAN teleport, that's why i'll be in the test server.
if im not there, call me out from regular wcs bcos im also bored.

[Masskid]

When switching to Human from Succubus hunter (with skulls) it will set your life too 200 instead of 150. In order to produce this the Succubus hunter must live the round and have human cued for the next round.

Tested on test server and live server and is only prominent on the Test server meaning that this may have to do with code involving the new Devotion aura.

This was also tested on other races that set a higher health amount and was only found to affect human

[ZERO]

The problem is not with the human. That race should be cleaning its health off at the race switch and is not. If you notice having 150hp as human and you switch to another race you have 100hp again. This is becuase human resets the hp back to normal before switching to the next race.

The reason it does not occur on the live server is that on that the human hard sets the health rather than adding it to the present value.

Does Succubus hunter glitch base health to other races as well? The 50 hp boost for human is only added on top of the players current health value and Succubus hunter must be adjusting the human health post facto.

[Masskid]

The problem is not with the human. That race should be cleaning its health off at the race switch and is not. If you notice having 150hp as human and you switch to another race you have 100hp again. This is becuase human resets the hp back to normal before switching to the next race.

The reason it does not occur on the live server is that on that the human hard sets the health rather than adding it to the present value.

Does Succubus hunter glitch base health to other races as well? The 50 hp boost for human is only added on top of the players current health value and Succubus hunter must be adjusting the human health post facto.


we tested with die xonvert and he maintained his normal health boost. It was only succubus -> human while the player stayed alive. For some reason it proced the health gain on succubus then human would bump the health up to 200 (you could even get up to 250 using Periapt of health)

It wasn't that human would get 150 health then + 4hpxskull, it would be human got 200 on spawn for a round so whether you had 1 skull or 5 you still ended up with a 200 health on human

[ZERO]

You need to test with something that does not get a health boost. What I am saying is the way the other races that grant health on spawn are programed they are covering up bugs that are behind the sceans. This is why I am recoding it this way as while it does have less error catching it allows any bugs to show up right away b/c the bugs should not exist in the first place and any real solution involves removing the bug not covering it up with error handling.

[Masskid]

You need to test with something that does not get a health boost. What I am saying is the way the other races that grant health on spawn are programed they are covering up bugs that are behind the sceans. This is why I am recoding it this way as while it does have less error catching it allows any bugs to show up right away b/c the bugs should not exist in the first place and any real solution involves removing the bug not covering it up with error handling.

Wolfenstinger tried with Vagalion and only had 100 life.

[Wolfenstinger]

I just tested it now without anyone on the server.... and I was able to do it w/o killing anyone for human. I'll be going through rest of races now that I know it does it without using skulls and re-post if any other races do it

[Masskid]

Da faq? it seems any race switching to human = 200 life.... vagalion -> human 200 life. Crypt lord -> human 200 life....flamepred/rapscallion/anyotherrace -> human = 200 life... The main point is that the player has to live

[Blackmage]

Other notes I got from them: Stacks with Periapt. Bomb death counts as death, which I take to mean requires the actual race change happening at end of round.

Edit: Now for my own notes: It's not 50 extra, it's double. With 5 in devotion, comes up to 170. At least I assume 5 is 35 extra health. Also: Dying and coming back at the end of the round (via scroll) it procs.

[ZERO]

YEa it would be double, I know what the issue is now lol.

[Masskid]

2 things, Teleport sound comes after the physical body moves not at the same time. And the bash effect also comes a bit after so the target moves away from the white stuff

[ZERO]

The teleport sound only occurs once the teleport is validated. Thus you will only hear it when your teleport is confirmed 100% success. This is to help users so they know when they hear that sound that their teleport has 100% succeeded and they will not be getting sent back.

---------- Post added at 02:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 AM ----------

I have released a fix for the health issue. I am now working on some stocks who's purpose is to dramatically reduce code length and make it much faster and easier to read the race code. This is becuase there are a lot of simple little groups of code that all races always perform and by reducing all those 4+ line areas to 1 line stocks it makes things easier to read so that anyone can easily separate code that should never be changed from code that is unique to a given race. (so it speeds up dev time and bug fixes.)

[ZERO]

1.0.5


Reprogramed from scratch
40% reduction in total number of lines of code (over 200 lines removed or replaced with stocks)
cloak level changed to pre OB levels
new effects
chat based ability feedback
changed bash from physical freeze to very slowed movement (so slow your frozen)
added universal teleportation failed sound
doubled checkteleport length to prevent false positives
moved teleport sound to occur on teleportation validation

[What]

Noticed a glitch today, when you buy periapt of Health, you get 200 hp for one round, then it resets down to 150 next round. I then got rid of it and bought another item instead and it took me down to 100hp. I think whatever you did to fix the glitch giving human the health buff broke the peripat on it.

Also, general thing I noticed, Someone went beast for a few rounds, then every other round, regardless of what race he was, he was still that red color. He was playing vaga bond and dragon fly and maybe something else, but still looked like a beast.

[ZERO]

Not getting the health is an issue caused by the way the item is coded and the way the race is, changing either one will fix the problem. The issue with the loss of health on removal is a problem with the item.

[CYBER]

Not getting the health is an issue caused by the way the item is coded and the way the race is, changing either one will fix the problem. The issue with the loss of health on removal is a problem with the item.

so do you think it's a gd idea to "patch" human with a temp fix so that the periapt works properly on it?

and then if u ever got a chance to recode the items, u'd be able to revert that patch?

[ZERO]

The best long term solution will be to just reprogram the item so that there is a new item standard of them running their changes after a 1 sec spawn delay so as to not mess with the default .5 sec delay of the races. What is going on is the item is doing stuff with no delay and then is getting changed by the race when it spawn program runs.

[ZERO]

1.0.6


Reduced bash length back to 1sec.

[ZERO]

1.0.7


Fixed glitch where a failed teleport would remove the ability to teleport ever again

[Wolfenstinger]

I'm complaining....


I can't see maxed human cloak for shit anymore.

[brett friggin favre]

i think i'll propose this again.

in 1.6's wc3 mod, humans were damn near invis with a knife out in the right spot. use the current invis value or previous invis value for when the human has a knife out. the effect is reduced when any other weapon is deployed. i think this would work SO much better. you could still sit damn-near invis in a corner, but you have to time your shots well and tactically switch between knife and guns.

[What]

Can you make it client specific so all humans are invisible to wolfen? I think that would make everyone feel better about the balance.

[CYBER]

i think i'll propose this again.

in 1.6's wc3 mod, humans were damn near invis with a knife out in the right spot. use the current invis value or previous invis value for when the human has a knife out. the effect is reduced when any other weapon is deployed. i think this would work SO much better. you could still sit damn-near invis in a corner, but you have to time your shots well and tactically switch between knife and guns.
I second this idea of associating the curren invis with a human with a knife out ONLY, and his invis reduces to the pre-bash-patch version for any other gun out. I'd really like to see this race get balanced out so that it wouldnt be an all-around favorite whore-race...

[brett friggin favre]

I second this idea of associating the curren invis with a human with a knife out ONLY, and his invis reduces to the pre-bash-patch version for any other gun out. I'd really like to see this race get balanced out so that it wouldnt be an all-around favorite whore-race...

imo, the level it was at previous to the recent update is still too invis. it's only a small difference percentage-wise from what we have now. i forget what percentage is currently being used, but let's say it's 80%: i think that should be used for knife out, and for a gun it should be 65%ish. the exact percentages would be tested, so there's a noticeable difference between gun and knife, but it's not TOTALLY night and day.

[CYBER]

imo, the level it was at previous to the recent update is still too invis. it's only a small difference percentage-wise from what we have now. i forget what percentage is currently being used, but let's say it's 80%: i think that should be used for knife out, and for a gun it should be 65%ish. the exact percentages would be tested, so there's a noticeable difference between gun and knife, but it's not TOTALLY night and day.
yeah i agree.

[What]

I generally agree with the sentiment since as it is now, you can be practically invisible in the right spot, and can easily shoot at people without them ever really haveing a chance to see where the hell you are. That being said though, extensive testing would need to be done on the levels of invisibility so that with a gun out the invisibility still makes a real difference, I think making the human too opaque eliminates the usefulness of this skill outside of straight up camping. But yeah since 1.3 human was always more invisible with his knife out, though he could also tele into sky boxes and outside of the map as well.

[CYBER]

I generally agree with the sentiment since as it is now, you can be practically invisible in the right spot, and can easily shoot at people without them ever really haveing a chance to see where the hell you are. That being said though, extensive testing would need to be done on the levels of invisibility so that with a gun out the invisibility still makes a real difference, I think making the human too opaque eliminates the usefulness of this skill outside of straight up camping. But yeah since 1.3 human was always more invisible with his knife out, though he could also tele into sky boxes and outside of the map as well.
here's a suggestion for u to cringe on, What... but i strongly suggest u think about it before bashing the idea. (human pun ftw)

how about this:
human with knife -> CURRENT invis CAP. (what is it? 80%?)
human without knife -> only 50% invis.
Allow purchase of a cloak that would increase it's non-knife invis to a max of wtvr-it-was-just-before-bash-fix (im guessing like 65-70%?)...but it would not pass the knife invis cap.


This way, the race can be played strategically and not just tank machine with full disabling options... meanwhile, if someone reminisces the high invis, they can fucking invest in a cloak, and that would FINALLY force people to break the tanky/op {lace health helm + insane invis + bash out of nowhere} combo.
sacrificing tankiness for stealthyness, and vice versa.

[What]

I actually did think about the cloak thing, but I still think its abad idea. Human needs to be useful with its invis and a gun out. Making it reliant on an item is just stupid, and clearly a way you thought of to limit the items that a human would buy.

There is no need to be so concerned with Human being too strong or tanky while Jack can still buy claws and use weapons like the shotgun to take advantage of the current proc system. After all human is the race many newbies need if they want to stand a chance in the server.

[Masskid]

Invisibility is to high, needs to drop down a bit. Before they were visible if you focused but now they are almost impossible to see without placing your eyeballs to the screen.

[Wolfenstinger]

Its funny because even with my eyeballs on the screen, I still can't see them for anything until my radar says there's something in that direction, I should shoot at it before it kills me!

[CYBER]

Its funny because even with my eyeballs on the screen, I still can't see them for anything until my radar says there's something in that direction, I should shoot at it before it kills me!
I cant even do that. Especially in the backtunnels leading to water on italy T-side... Cant see enemy until he shoots me first ori accidentally hocer over him for a nametag

[What]

I cant even do that. Especially in the backtunnels leading to water on italy T-side... Cant see enemy until he shoots me first ori accidentally hocer over him for a nametag

Yeah, the water on Italy is clearly a problem.....

[Wolfenstinger]

See them vents on italy?

[brett friggin favre]

See them vents on italy?

yeah they're near b-tuns right? just below heaven

[CYBER]

Yeah, the water on Italy is clearly a problem.....


iphones...
from what i saw from a masskid post, "assault vents" typos translated to aztec vents, and aztec water typos to italy waters...

THAT or i was gaming/driving while commenting on my phone and got completely distracted...

eitherway: fuck you. you get my point on the human invis though...

[Masskid]

iphones...
from what i saw from a masskid post, "assault vents" typos translated to aztec vents, and aztec water typos to italy waters...

THAT or i was gaming/driving while commenting on my phone and got completely distracted...

eitherway: fuck you. you get my point on the human invis though...

T-T they are being so mean to us

[Passarelli]

iphones...

THAT or i was gaming/driving while commenting on my phone and got completely distracted...



Dude, don't do that. I like hearing you bitch too much for you to wreck and kill yourself because you posted on the forums while you were driving.

[Wolfenstinger]

Back to the topic on hand however...

Still can't see them until they shoot enough flares at me...or i'm dead and scroll.

[CYBER]

Zero... please. human needs a nerf big time.
and by nerf i mean: lower the invis on it the way brett suggested, it was how it was back in the old old old cs days, and it would add a lot more interesting gameplays other than camping and shooting out of nowhere...

The ONLY thing i could recommend as a compensation for the current human invis?
Having bash show a trace of where the bullet came from like nebula or molecule evade or die xonv...

and even then, like wolf said, it's not enough... with a knife out he can hide as he does now, but he'd have to play smart to snipe u from a hidden corner without being seen by other people when his invis goes down with a gun out

[What]

Are you guys really having that much trouble with camping humans? There are a set number of spots on each map where people hide, its not too hard to check them off as you move around, and most of the time people get killed by a camping human is because they decide to go run around the map instead of protecting or doing the objective. Its not like every player is Deathwish

[Masskid]

Are you guys really having that much trouble with camping humans? There are a set number of spots on each map where people hide, its not too hard to check them off as you move around, and most of the time people get killed by a camping human is because they decide to go run around the map instead of protecting or doing the objective. Its not like every player is Deathwish

The problem is with this increased invisibility the number of camping locations has increased. Also the invisibility is so high that its almost impossible to check an area thoroughly & quickly, you pick one or the other. Before i could check the cubby on aztec and see them if i was looking. Now i have to actually shoot there to make sure no one is tucked away.

[What]

I can feel your pain to some extent on that, but maybe you can't just run around the map anymore and know instantly where people are.

It seems that what a lot of people don't like, is something that inhibits them from playing the game the way they like, and when something like that comes up, they want to see it removed. Simply because something is now difficult for you, doesn't mean it needs to go away. If thats the game we want to play, then we should make it so vagalion can not knife during its teleport, only when its come to a complete stop. That would certainly make many more people on the server happy than messing with human invisibility. This isn't directed towards anyone specifically, but I'm not convinced what people are taking objection to about certain races is that they are in fact OP, rather it seems that they are a roadblock to what they want to do. If it truly was a problem with a race being OP, then all of the issues with all of the races need to be addressed, not just the ones people don't like to play against. The reason few people complain about jack isn't because it is a huge step below human or molecule, its that a lot of people like to play that race and take advantage of its wonky proc abilities. The reason i will go molecule alot is to counter a jack, now it seems that people who like to play jack have a problem with molecule. People who play vaga or some speed race are being beaten by humans, now human needs to be "fixed". That is the problem with these types of complaints, everyone is blind, whether subconsciously or not, to the OP abilities of the races they prefer.

[Masskid]

The problem I have with the invisible is not that "I don't like it so make it go away" it's the fact that now if not actively searching for a human you will not find him. It went from a skill that helped avoid people to a level that is almost on par with a nebula ultimate. You couple the super invisibility with a delayed teleport sound and you can vanish into thin air with no trace to where you went. The update did in fact fix the bash but in turn broke another skill. If the intent was to balance human (nerf) then it failed and made it stronger(imo)

Ps from the phone so excuse the shity everything

[What]

I'm just not seeing the invisibility as that bad, yes it probably should be a touch more opaque, but just a touch. Sometimes I know a guy is somewhere, am looking right at him and its still really hard to see his outline on the textures, that should be changed, but making it worse than what it was before the update isnt the thing to do.

[Masskid]

I'm just not seeing the invisibility as that bad, yes it probably should be a touch more opaque, but just a touch. Sometimes I know a guy is somewhere, am looking right at him and its still really hard to see his outline on the textures, that should be changed, but making it worse than what it was before the update isnt the thing to do.

That's what i mean xD i was just on office and someone who was sitting backyard shutters was completely invisible until i speced right next to him :\ The invisibility is to high and thats what we are all complaining about T-T. I never wanted it to be worse then pre-update... in fact i would rather it to be back because imo it was the perfect invisibility. I never really had a problem with pre-update since my eyes were able to catch them (This made deathwish rage so much and why he calls me a hacker) but now its ridiculous :( i say revert the invisibility back and it be all good

[What]

I'm all for reversion, but what some people are talking about is current levels with knife, and then shitty levels without knife, that would in effect make human significantly weaker which I don't think is necessary.

[Masskid]

I'm all for reversion, but what some people are talking about is current levels with knife, and then shitty levels without knife, that would in effect make human significantly weaker which I don't think is necessary.

Fuck those people :D

[Passarelli]

It should be current levels with knife and previous level with gun out, IMO.

[Wolfenstinger]

Can we give Humans a laser as well? Or re-add tracers? Anyone remember when Tracers were on WCS? :smirk:

[brett friggin favre]

something should be done soon, we fixed OP bash but made invis more OP. you don't even have to earn human, it shouldn't be as good as it is.

[What]

something should be done soon, we fixed OP bash but made invis more OP. you don't even have to earn human, it shouldn't be as good as it is.


u mad bro?

[Wolfenstinger]

Human + Para + Orb + Lace + Mask

I hope I hit something.

[Tickle Me Emo]

I would love to see human with knife out stay at current invisibility and with a gun out turn slightly more visible. I rather enjoyed the tactic decision that the old method of knife vs gun forced you to make. It made human a lot more fun, IMO.

[What]

I don't think the knife thing will make a big change, since human usually camps at a distance from people anyways, there is plenty of time to switch to a gun and shoot first, then all you need is a bash to go off and you will have won. I don't see much of a tactical decision involved, since if you are camping, the knife will be out.

[Passarelli]

What, usually the switch in transparency is enough to allow me to notice them, and it gives that weapon draw time a chance to land a couple hits. Either way, I think the transparency should go back the way it was at least when you have a gun out.

[What]

I agree with you pass, while I don't see it as a big of a deal as some others, it definitely should go back to the previous level of invisibility. The other tweaks I think are not necessary at this time.

[Masskid]

I don't think the knife thing will make a big change, since human usually camps at a distance from people anyways, there is plenty of time to switch to a gun and shoot first, then all you need is a bash to go off and you will have won. I don't see much of a tactical decision involved, since if you are camping, the knife will be out.
Is this knife = higher invisibility or is it knife + no movement = higher invisibility?

[What]

On 1.3 and 1.6 it was just knife = lower invisibility, but again, seems unnecessary if it just goes back to where it was

[Masskid]

1.3 + 1.6 also had teleport = sling shot :P

[What]

And you could teleport to skywalk, orc regenerated its equipment, undead explosion could kill tons of people, moles happened instantly, and gum drops literally shot out of your monitor into your mouth.

[Erdenay]

After playing a little bit on WCS, I have to agree - the current levels are an absolute disaster. As soon as human rework has happened and when we were testing new human with Zero and Cyber (I think) and then later with Wolf, I've already noted that this is going to be a problem. In a way, this is actually worse than what we had with bash because in most maps right now human is pretty much literally impossible to spot unless you:
1) Pre-fire on all possible camp spots.
2) The human player is kind enough to light a Christmas tree without actually hitting you.
3) Doesn't have a lace and get hits by ultimate
4) Plays like a retard.

What is worse 3 and 4 aren't even reliable methods as due to the visibility and extra health you may still easily lose. I think previous invisibility was fine (with knife or without) - it made human a very strong, reliable race available for everyone. The current levels is what encourages whoring and pretty much gives no chances for the new players (or gives them the wrong idea to play human only). What human is currently escalates average/bad players to actually skill level of "good" just due to terrible mechanics [Think: Deathwish].

I am a huge fan of imperfect balance and uniqueness and in general IBIS is a great place to get that experience and for most cases even if the race/playstyle can be considered OP [Think: molecule / nebula / dragonfly with bullet rain through the walls / vagas / other things people complain], they can normally countered by strategy, skill and knowledge of the mod. The current human pretty much works against that and I think it sends the wrong message to both the current players and the new ones.

TL;DR: I think that human currently is a little bit too overpowered (there's plenty of evidence just in this thread) and that the invisibility should be reduced in order to induce balance once again.

[Carmichal]

too many people like what and the faggot deathwish whore races. WCS is no longer fun...

[What]

too many people like what and the faggot deathwish whore races. WCS is no longer fun...

Woah, easy now. I don't play human that much, and even as a molecule I never consistently play the same race as much as deathwish does.

ps everyone whores. I can't even try and play something fun on most maps cause people want to play spidy, nebula, or human constantly. I will go a race in order to kill, which sometimes is athena, or shadow, or human, or vaga- depends on the map and what im facing.

[ZERO]

1.0.8


Reduced effectiveness of Stormwind Cloak

[CYBER]

1.0.8


Reduced effectiveness of Stormwind Cloak


FINALLY.
reduced it back to normal level? or somewhere in between? or what?:)

[Passarelli]

It looks about what it used to be from in game testing.

[Masskid]

It looks about what it used to be from in game testing.

Sounds perfect now

[CYBER]

Sounds perfect now
Yeah, bash is working well.
And the invisibility has been reduced to the previous levels (from my own testing).
Surely makes human slightly more visible.

Can still camp dark spots and corners, but at least now, it's a game of reaction time between you and the camping human who shot you,
rather than a game of "WHERE THE FUCKING HELL IS HE! *bashed, bashed, dies* FUCK THIS INVIS SHIT" .... which was happening a lot.

[Masskid]

Yeah, bash is working well.
And the invisibility has been reduced to the previous levels (from my own testing).
Surely makes human slightly more visible.

Can still camp dark spots and corners, but at least now, it's a game of reaction time between you and the camping human who shot you,
rather than a game of "WHERE THE FUCKING HELL IS HE! *bashed, bashed, dies* FUCK THIS INVIS SHIT" .... which was happening a lot.

and now its time for deathwish to think im hacking again :DDD

[kionay]

Yeah, bash is working well.
And the invisibility has been reduced to the previous levels (from my own testing).
Surely makes human slightly more visible.

Can still camp dark spots and corners, but at least now, it's a game of reaction time between you and the camping human who shot you,
rather than a game of "WHERE THE FUCKING HELL IS HE! *bashed, bashed, dies* FUCK THIS INVIS SHIT" .... which was happening a lot.

that feeling of 'where the fuck is he?' was something i thought was just me being bad at the game

glad to know it's not entirely me :P

[Xerenix]

Having problems with the teleport ultimate.

Sometimes i'll end up having to spam my ultimate button several times before it actually teleports, no error messages or anything.


I know it's not the ultimate button as every other race works flawlessly when i use the button and there is nothing in the area that conflicts with the teleport as there is no one around(No lace), it's in a big open area and it teleports to the location eventually.

Anyone else having this problem?

[CYBER]

Having problems with the teleport ultimate.

Sometimes i'll end up having to spam my ultimate button several times before it actually teleports, no error messages or anything.


I know it's not the ultimate button as every other race works flawlessly when i use the button and there is nothing in the area that conflicts with the teleport as there is no one around(No lace), it's in a big open area and it teleports to the location eventually.

Anyone else having this problem?
Yes but that's because of zero's 'stuck detection' code. U might be aiming at an open area, but ur crosshair is targetting either a corner or object on ground, or ur crosshair is a bit too high and it would get u stuck in the skybox corner if it didnt fail

[ZERO]

YEa sometimes it can do that but 99.9999% of the time preforming the actual teleport would have resulted in you getting stuck and teleported back.

[Xerenix]

Yes but that's because of zero's 'stuck detection' code. U might be aiming at an open area, but ur crosshair is targetting either a corner or object on ground, or ur crosshair is a bit too high and it would get u stuck in the skybox corner if it didnt fail

Yeah but the thing is, when i keep the crosshair at the same spot and don't move, it will teleport to the place but not until i've pressed the ultimate button 5-6 times.

So it's not that there is anything in the way, it's just that the ultimate command isn't responding.

[CYBER]

Yeah but the thing is, when i keep the crosshair at the same spot and don't move, it will teleport to the place but not until i've pressed the ultimate button 5-6 times.

So it's not that there is anything in the way, it's just that the ultimate command isn't responding.
unless you have some sort of "locking" mechanism happening, there's no way that your crosshair will not slightly move (mouse jitter) in between those teleports.
YES, the glitching is very sensible to almost every pixel variation...


that being said, zero?
i really don't like the delay in between failed teleports...
i used to love it when an athena has u stuck, and u just spam-away your ultimate, going back and forth and making it harder to get hit by bullets until u're free, and then u tele away...

current, if the shit that xerenix mentionned happened in game, u can almost garantee a fatality happening:
1- u teleport away to an open area, SOMETHING lets u fail it for some absurd reason, then there's a delay on the ultimate + possibility of lace showing up nearby making it worse to time ur tele while running etc...
2- u're on an edge trying to teleport across a gap... u press the damn ulti, it doesnt let you summon and u end up falling to death or significant dmg bcos now ur teleport has that ~half a sec delay, IF it actually procs ...



besides... glitching a teleport to pick up a bomb in a corner and fallback, or to scare the crap out of someone aroudn a corner and then flank them from the other side?...classics.

[What]

The delay does blow since it limits spam of the ulty button if you are falling or something like that, but I think it is more fair the way it is. You shouldn't be able to spam the ulti in roots or medusa since all you are really doing is glitching the shit out of it.

[CYBER]

The delay does blow since it limits spam of the ulty button if you are falling or something like that, but I think it is more fair the way it is. You shouldn't be able to spam the ulti in roots or medusa since all you are really doing is glitching the shit out of it.

Now i hate human with a passion, so im not advocating for it, but i will say this:
Humans and beast are the only races in the game whose ultimate is BLOCKED by entangle and meduza.

The fact is, a shadow hunter or molecule entangled can still protect itself, even suiciders like a flame pred and undead can blow up, flyers like santa can still fly away while entangled, and strider/magician can just portal back somewhere else in the map, hell even a vagabond is still able to USE the ulti to get in or out of invis and shoot (albeit it takes a lot of luck to land that hit).

Now, i don't mind the fact that the entangle completely roots a human to the ground and prevents it from teleporting, humans ARE OP (fine, call them "very strong" for now), and they do fine even if entangled, im just saying that if u compare the races "pound for pound" regarding the ulti vs entangle, teleporters are at a disadvantage.
I wouldn't have minded it before bcos u can spam the ulti and use it to confuse the enemy or dodge a couple bullets. Hell, even if it would ALLOW ME to teleport as a human or beast, but STILL keep me rooted at my landing point, it would be more comparable to other race's ultimate (i.e being able to trigger them at least).

That being said, i much rather having humans/beast rooted and unable to teleport, but i'm bitching about the delayed cooldown spam being used a plausible escape tactic

[What]

Well the flyers will not be able to fly from roots and medusa after zero updates that stuff, he has already said that. Also, teleport, and later flying, are all things that inherently negate being frozen, thats why they don't work. Molecule, hells demon, etc all have ultimates that don't affect movement, so thats why they work. Its completely logical to have movement ultimates negated by a freezing ultimate. Also vagas, cant tele away from the roots and shit either.

[ZERO]

YEa roots and other freezing races are going to operate the same for all races as to how they effect human now. In a way you can say that freeze is getting a buff but in reality it is just getting a massive bug fix.

[Xerenix]

unless you have some sort of "locking" mechanism happening, there's no way that your crosshair will not slightly move (mouse jitter) in between those teleports.
YES, the glitching is very sensible to almost every pixel variation...


The thing is, there is no teleport at all between those 5-6 ultimate button presses. I get no message or any reaction at all when i press the button until the 5-6th try when it atleast tries to teleport.

[What]

The thing is, there is no teleport at all between those 5-6 ultimate button presses. I get no message or any reaction at all when i press the button until the 5-6th try when it atleast tries to teleport.

Maybe a demo if it happening so he can figure it out? Are you spamming the button or maybe there was a lace around?

[Zackychuu]

On a slightly related subject, I joined the server yesterday and it was just me and Some Assembly Required.
We were playing sunken temple and were knifing eachother.
Now, I was playing Raiden the whole time and he was switching between Shadow of the Void, Succubus, Undead, Strider and a few other races.
Not even once in the whole game did he buy a lace, and every round I would press my ultimate button and it wouldn't work at all.
Would just say "no target within 75 feet" etc. I mentioned this to him and he actually stood next to me, no lace, no ability to block ulties...and it still wouldnt work.

Next map switched to crackhouse and I tested it again, and it worked completely fine.

I think there might be something bugging out ultimates, and this bit of text is just to supplement the problems that Xerenix has been having.

[brett friggin favre]

It may have also been that his lace from shadow of the void just got stuck on for some reason, like how you can be stuck in vaga teleport freeze if you switch off of it

[Zackychuu]

It may have also been that his lace from shadow of the void just got stuck on for some reason, like how you can be stuck in vaga teleport freeze if you switch off of it
Yeah that was one conclusion I came too, but I just thought it was worth noting somewhere other than my head incase it was a real issue.

[CYBER]

inner cooldown of 1-2s for bash anyone?

[What]

No, the race is fine as is, sometimes you win the bash game, sometimes you lose it.

[brett friggin favre]

I say nay. The more nitpicky we get with these skills, the nite jumbled it's gonna get and the more complicated the code gets.

[CYBER]

No, the race is fine as is, sometimes you win the bash game, sometimes you lose it.I just loooooove it when u walk somewhere and u just read 6-7 "you got bashed!" Messages from somewhere on the map.. If the bash rate would make it so that u have at least 1-2s of being able to shoot or press a damn button or smthn, then its fine, but a perma stack of bashes is becoming a very common thing, 1st bash is all it takes for a kill

[What]

I just loooooove it when u walk somewhere and u just read 6-7 "you got bashed!" Messages from somewhere on the map.. If the bash rate would make it so that u have at least 1-2s of being able to shoot or press a damn button or smthn, then its fine, but a perma stack of bashes is becoming a very common thing, 1st bash is all it takes for a kill

It would make the human very nerfed. Also, you would have to do it to every other race with a percentage chance ability, make undead vampiric have a cool down, make banish have a cool down, make crit strike have a cool down, etc.

[CYBER]

It would make the human very nerfed. Also, you would have to do it to every other race with a percentage chance ability, make undead vampiric have a cool down, make banish have a cool down, make crit strike have a cool down, etc.


not really... If there's anything that i learned from any skill-based game, is that OP skills need to have a control mechanism to prevent it from being THE dominating and uncontested best skill.

Go and ask on the servers, ask WHAT's the BEST SKILL in the server, at any time? Almost every single vote will be bash, almost uncontested.
Crit heals and damages can be mitigated by dealing damage, self healing, evade, self invul, etc.

Whereas Bash, and any form of freeze has absolutely NO counter whatsoever. even a molecule in a bubble, a shadow hunter invul, a nightelf/spidey/eyerae evade does NOT negate the bash. it will negate damage, and crits mostly, but NOT BASH

Why would evades negate my crit damages from orc, and any other form of on-shoot effect, EXCEPt the human bash? even flyers get frozen in place, and teleporters unable to teleport...
BASH has NO COUNTER WHATSOEVER. And you of all people know that the shadow hunter Hex is never reliable, and if it procs (once in a lifetime) it will only proc so many times on an enemy clip when every other shot is bashing

So until there's an actual item that can prevent skill-based effects or damage, even for consumed for 10s of skill-immunity like an anti-ward for 5k $, then the skill itself must not be THE dominating skill around.

There's not even need to put an inner cooldown on most the skills in game, except bash, and MAYBE a 0.1s cooldown on jack unique skills to fix the pump shotty abusing of its abilities.
What's the point of having crit damage or leech or wtvr if i am bashed throughout 95% of the duration that u face a human?and with their insane hp and invis, good luck getting the upper hand and killing them before ONE bash procs... and then it's fucking GG, not because the player is skillfull and can counter u now, but because that ONE bash will keep u there enough for the 8 successive bashes that will come after...
even a 0.5s cooldown (cooldown of usp bullets) is more than enough to make the skill still amazingly strong, but not abusable and the best fucking uncontested skill...

but wtvr, i know it's more work, but it shouldnt be that hard anymore after zero discovered a way to carry inner cooldowns for ultimates from round to round last year... im just throwing my observation from playing a couple more skill-based games recently

- - - Updated - - -


I say nay. The more nitpicky we get with these skills, the nite jumbled it's gonna get and the more complicated the code gets.


also... "nite" ? :P

[What]

bash is the best skill because of the total package of what human is, personally, and i know im not alone, banish and panorama screen flip are far worse than the bash. Again, doing anything to the bash makes the human significantly worse, and in fairness you would need to do the same to all other skills that are percentage based, which then nullifys the point of having a percentage based system in the first place.

[CYBER]

bash is the best skill because of the total package of what human is, personally, and i know im not alone, banish and panorama screen flip are far worse than the bash. Again, doing anything to the bash makes the human significantly worse, and in fairness you would need to do the same to all other skills that are percentage based, which then nullifys the point of having a percentage based system in the first place.


who said cooldowns would be identical to eachother? if a race's skill is mediocre at best, then u wouldnt need a cooldwn for it... in fact, having an innner cooldown can just be a variable that can be reduced to 0 by zero on the "weak" skills, but modified based on how op that skill is... human bash for example.
banish is annoying true, but its only annoying bcos of the duration of it, not the multiple procs of it, and u can always gtfo with a speed race if banished or throw a flash and make evryone blind till u can see... but with bash, u're just gonna chill there... or grenade urself, the usual.

im just saying that tiny variable cooldowns (no more than 1s at best) even a 0.01 cooldown (jack for example, on each seperate skill proccing), is not a bad idea and u know it...

[What]

who said cooldowns would be identical to eachother? if a race's skill is mediocre at best, then u wouldnt need a cooldwn for it... in fact, having an innner cooldown can just be a variable that can be reduced to 0 by zero on the "weak" skills, but modified based on how op that skill is... human bash for example.
banish is annoying true, but its only annoying bcos of the duration of it, not the multiple procs of it, and u can always gtfo with a speed race if banished or throw a flash and make evryone blind till u can see... but with bash, u're just gonna chill there... or grenade urself, the usual.

im just saying that tiny variable cooldowns (no more than 1s at best) even a 0.01 cooldown (jack for example, on each seperate skill proccing), is not a bad idea and u know it...

Judging what skills are strong and which are weak is not possible, it all depends what you do with them and how lucky you get with them. Sure things like spike carapaced vs extra health are easy enough, but maser vs thunderbolt vs crit strike? Cooldown is unnecessary.


With Jack all I advocate, and have been advocating, is restricting claws of attack on that race, which I thought Zero said he was going to do.

[CYBER]

Judging what skills are strong and which are weak is not possible, it all depends what you do with them and how lucky you get with them. Sure things like spike carapaced vs extra health are easy enough, but maser vs thunderbolt vs crit strike? Cooldown is unnecessary.


With Jack all I advocate, and have been advocating, is restricting claws of attack on that race, which I thought Zero said he was going to do.

claw of attack and ak not as effective as claw of attack and shotty...
in fact, even without the claw, shotty is very problematic on jack...
if there was a 0.0001 cooldown of each skill on jack, it would allow the POSSIBILITY of proc'ing one of each (clubs, hearts, diamond) on a shotty burst, but not many of them at the same time...
u're trying to remove an item completely from a race just because of a combo it can do with another weapon on THAT race.
a tiny 0.00001 cooldown on skills would solve THIS problem and many many others without forcing people who use claws on jack with a scout or deagle or wtvr the fuck they use to be punished for jack/claw/shotty...

but that's a chat reserved to the jack thread, im talking about bash being an op skill that does MORE than just freeze.
Between freezing, fucking up your aim (yes, still does that, not as strong as before but still does that) and negating your exit strategies, the skill itself should be either nerfed with an inner cooldown, or turned into something that would simply fuck your aim and not freeze your or vice versa...the latter being impossible, an inner cooldown is more effective than an overall proc % nerf...

althought i certainly wouldn't mind a proc% nerf, even though an inner cooldown will solve multiple issues we have...
allowing zero to increase some % procs on some races (like rapscallion blades and others, while still controllable...)...
hell if u wanna talk about jack? and undead and santa? with an inner cooldown to negate the claw/shotty whoring, u can now increase the amount of health leeched, without making a race op because it would still be controllable.

nway,,, Wolf will be able to explain this a lot better than me... i think he's more intuitive when it comes to exploits and combinations, with his experience in wcs overall, and his league experience on stats and items.
he was planning on posting here... no idea where he is now

[What]

claw of attack and ak not as effective as claw of attack and shotty...
in fact, even without the claw, shotty is very problematic on jack...
if there was a 0.0001 cooldown of each skill on jack, it would allow the POSSIBILITY of proc'ing one of each (clubs, hearts, diamond) on a shotty burst, but not many of them at the same time...
u're trying to remove an item completely from a race just because of a combo it can do with another weapon on THAT race.
a tiny 0.00001 cooldown on skills would solve THIS problem and many many others without forcing people who use claws on jack with a scout or deagle or wtvr the fuck they use to be punished for jack/claw/shotty...

but that's a chat reserved to the jack thread, im talking about bash being an op skill that does MORE than just freeze.
Between freezing, fucking up your aim (yes, still does that, not as strong as before but still does that) and negating your exit strategies, the skill itself should be either nerfed with an inner cooldown, or turned into something that would simply fuck your aim and not freeze your or vice versa...the latter being impossible, an inner cooldown is more effective than an overall proc % nerf...

althought i certainly wouldn't mind a proc% nerf, even though an inner cooldown will solve multiple issues we have...
allowing zero to increase some % procs on some races (like rapscallion blades and others, while still controllable...)...
hell if u wanna talk about jack? and undead and santa? with an inner cooldown to negate the claw/shotty whoring, u can now increase the amount of health leeched, without making a race op because it would still be controllable.

nway,,, Wolf will be able to explain this a lot better than me... i think he's more intuitive when it comes to exploits and combinations, with his experience in wcs overall, and his league experience on stats and items.
he was planning on posting here... no idea where he is now


I.......Disagree

[Wolfenstinger]

Internal CDs within spells aren't a terrible idea however. Depsite there having to be a lot of recoding maybe?? Example : Bash having a 1sec internal CD. Now this is just for ONE human. You can have 2 humans that'll beable to stack bash however, or spidey / human, but that's just teamwork there.

W/o Internal CDs, it's technically just possible to proc bash instead 100 consecutive times with a para. Figuring you are on a luck streak like that. CSS itself has internal CDs (reloading, switching guns, dropping guns, rate of fire on weapons, throwing nades).

Would it make the gameplay for WCS more balanced? Depends on the internal CD added to the on-hit ability. This could be done for phoenix as well (ex. after a player is revived, next player can not be revived by this bloodmage's phoenix for the next 3-5 seconds). Stops the whole revive spam from multiple blood mages, but this means that it has a chance to combo if there are multiple blood mages on the team, causing mass revives and nobody dying.

The way WCS is right now, its whoever gets the most procs. It doesn't matter how many procs, just has to be lucky proc streaks and aim.

[What]

The way WCS is right now, its whoever gets the most procs. It doesn't matter how many procs, just has to be lucky proc streaks and aim.

That was kind of my point, you could not just do it for human, that would not be fair, you would have to do it for all races with a percentage chance, which i think is unnecessary.

[Passarelli]

The amount of code for this is actually negligible. It is all on how zero wants it done ; p Also, bash is pretty overpowered on every race that has it, What, meaning it isn't just the human package that makes it good.

Die Xonvert bash is gross, especially with claws. Spider man's bash is a integral part of it's kit. Jack knockup (works very similarly to bash on most races, with the exception of flying races) is just lawlz. I would be happier if claws were restricted on all of these races, especially if you consider that none of these races get claws for the extra damage.

The simplest and most fair way to fix these issues would simply be to make claws not proc skills. Either that, or add info to the tooltip so it is more common knowledge that claws give another chance to proc an on shot ability and increase their cost. They are very inexpensive when you equate in the extra chance for a proc.

[CYBER]

The amount of code for this is actually negligible. It is all on how zero wants it done ; p Also, bash is pretty overpowered on every race that has it, What, meaning it isn't just the human package that makes it good.

Die Xonvert bash is gross, especially with claws. Spider man's bash is a integral part of it's kit. Jack knockup (works very similarly to bash on most races, with the exception of flying races) is just lawlz. I would be happier if claws were restricted on all of these races, especially if you consider that none of these races get claws for the extra damage.

The simplest and most fair way to fix these issues would simply be to make claws not proc skills. Either that, or add info to the tooltip so it is more common knowledge that claws give another chance to proc an on shot ability and increase their cost. They are very inexpensive when you equate in the extra chance for a proc.


thing with "claws" is that it only procs on-target effects... not alllll effects.
put a claw on jack and people are singing the hail mary 1 round in. same for bash

put that claw on a santa, it gets 0 leech, mainly because of how it's coded... so i do agree on 1 thing, claw should either proc all shooting/knifing based effects, or none at all.

[ZERO]

There is a cooldown to prevent bash stacking:


//Will only trigger from things not listed below
if(!StrEqual(weapon,"hegrenade",false))
{
//abilities below
//Bash
new skill_level=skill_level_bash[attacker];
if(skill_level>0 && Math_GetRandomFloat(0.0, 1.0) <= BashChance[skill_level])
{
//Bash can only occur if target is not already bashed
if(BashTimer[victim] == INVALID_HANDLE)
{
//Slow client and start timer
War3_SetBuff( victim, fSlow, thisRaceID, 0.00000001 );
BashTimer[victim] = CreateTimer(1.0,expire_slow,victim);

//effect
new Float:Position[3];
GetClientAbsOrigin(victim, Position);

est_Effect11(SpawnSprite, Position, 1.0, 2.3, 90);
TE_SendToAll();

CPrintToChat(attacker, "{gold}Bashed enemy");
CPrintToChat(victim, "{gold}You got bashed");
}
}
}
}
}

//Remove slow after time
public Action:expire_slow(Handle:timer,any:victim)
{
//Code to run when timer ends
BashTimer[victim] = INVALID_HANDLE;

//Return cleint to normal speed
if(Client_IsValid(victim))
{
War3_SetBuff( victim, fSlow, thisRaceID, 1.0 );
}
}

[ZERO]

As a result of the above any shots that trigger bash when a player is bashed are filtered. However after a player is no longer bashed the next shot and preceding shots that hit have the bash chance to activate. This is different from before where previously bash could stack thus making it so lets say 0.5 sec into the bash it triggered again causing it to last for 1.5 seconds total and so on. As usual the chance for the event to occur in a given time frame is based on the number of event triggers set off during that time (ie faster weapons have better chance to go off).

Honestly the root issue is just people using those fast low damage weapons to increase the % chance of a event trigger. For skills like bash this is good for for things where the benefit is based on the damage dealt it is not so good.

[kionay]

maybe bash should be based on damage done? or perhaps have a damage modifier so that bigger more innaccurate weapons have closer to the same chance to proc as the smaller weapons

though i'm assuming that would cause issues with claw :-/

[CYBER]

As a result of the above any shots that trigger bash when a player is bashed are filtered. However after a player is no longer bashed the next shot and preceding shots that hit have the bash chance to activate. This is different from before where previously bash could stack thus making it so lets say 0.5 sec into the bash it triggered again causing it to last for 1.5 seconds total and so on. As usual the chance for the event to occur in a given time frame is based on the number of event triggers set off during that time (ie faster weapons have better chance to go off).

Honestly the root issue is just people using those fast low damage weapons to increase the % chance of a event trigger. For skills like bash this is good for for things where the benefit is based on the damage dealt it is not so good.

ok, there's a cooldown to prevent bash stacking WHILE you are bashed, but nevertheless, the second you are unbashed, it will immediate stack again considering the high proc rate of bash.


I'm still advocating for either a lower bash proc chance, or preferably a 0.5s delay AFTER the initial bash is OVER to proc the second bash.
with an average reaction time of 0.4-0.6s for decent people, they might be able to react in that window of time instead of just standing there, rooted...

i know it's because of fastshooting guns, but the ability is too strong...
at least make it so that EVADING the shot, or going invulnerable prevents the stack, since the bullet "technically" shouldnt have hit/pierced you to proc the effects...
oh well, your call rly, just posting what i see in game

[ZERO]

Evasion skills are going to be updated to use OnW3TakeDmgAllPre to prevent this.

[ZERO]

The current night elf on the test server should have this change for its evasion. If its evasion is not working let me know. Other races that negate damage will be change to have the same buff/fix.

[kionay]

people might actually start using night elf more?

:shock and awe:

[Wolfenstinger]

Community will use things that are reworked (Human, Orc) or idolizing somebody because of their playstyle in attempts of mimicking it (...Strider...)

That or they personally have feelings on the skill set the race provides and enjoy being under your skin with it :smirk:

[kionay]

Community will use things that are reworked (Human, Orc) or idolizing somebody because of their playstyle in attempts of mimicking it (...Strider...)

That or they personally have feelings on the skill set the race provides and enjoy being under your skin with it :smirk:


ahhh this so much, once people see deez owning it up suddenly Stryder gets popular again

and you, wolf, when you destroy people with vagalion that almost always encourages people to strive to get vaga

then when someone plays human and finds a good hiding spot 2 or 3 humans always seem to pop up on the other team

[CYBER]

How about we make it so that when a human procs a bash:

there would be a 'direct line' effect from attacker to victim, Luke a grey version of undead's leech proc?
Or suggestion #2 would be to make it so that humans lose ALL their invisibility when their bash procs, and regain it when it ends?
Or both? It won't nerf the race tnakyness or stealth by much, just gives a fair fight when u are already locked in position... Maybe a teammate can notice the human and save u, or u can be able to react better in time...?




Because currently, bash is a skill that needs to be either removed completely from. The game on all champions, or needs to have SOME drawback to it.

Because it is singlehandedly the single most op skill with zero drawbacks whatsoever... He'll even vaga procs show ur general direction....


Currently, a human camps in some random ass corner, and as much as u can do ur best to clear those spots, when ONE bash procs, u almost have zero to no chance to find the direction of where that human fag is before the nxt bash procs and the nxt and the next... Oh wait u dead already and u STILL dnt know where that human is...


Add one of the 2 EASY fixes above and make human have some drawback...

heck u can even put a small 'revealed' notification in chat like mole disguised, or add a light grey border to the human' screen view, like the mother zombie in ZM, to tell them that they are currently revealed, without being over the top obnoxious with the boarder choice:p

Why does undead and other races reveal location on procs, but not the single most of race in the server?

Yeay or nay?

[Brice]

Hell yeah

[Passarelli]

Restricting claws would solve the largest issue which is bash locking. A tracer effect would be okay as well.

The goal of these changes is to take the power out of the race for higher level players, while keeping it powerful enough for new people to stand a chance.

Highlighting it--well, the tracer would highlight it enough. Anything more then that would likely lower the power too much.

[What]

Just get rid of the race if after years of it existing as it is it has become so burdensome. Its a stealth race, tracers and flashing visibility defeat that purpose and effectivlely nerf the race's ability. Its not a sniper, its not a flying race, its a camp race, which people seem to keep forgetting.

[Passarelli]

Yeah. I don't mind them as long as they go to do the objective with enough time to complete it.

EDIT: Other then them being annoying and if they are a decent player, they force me to counter : /

[CYBER]

Just get rid of the race if after years of it existing as it is it has become so burdensome. Its a stealth race, tracers and flashing visibility defeat that purpose and effectivlely nerf the race's ability. Its not a sniper, its not a flying race, its a camp race, which people seem to keep forgetting.
touched a nerve on one of ur races ?:P

[What]

Yeah. I don't mind them as long as they go to do the objective with enough time to complete it.

EDIT: Other then them being annoying and if they are a decent player, they force me to counter : /

This 100% this. Everyone loves to bitch about a race when it stops them from rolling trough the other team and going 20-1. "You mean i can't just destroy everyone? This must be changed, no one should be able to kill me!" such annoying bullshit.

[What]

not saying pass is one of those people, that quote just summed up the issue

[CYBER]

This 100% this. Everyone loves to bitch about a race when it stops them from rolling trough the other team and going 20-1. "You mean i can't just destroy everyone? This must be changed, no one should be able to kill me!" such annoying bullshit.
it's one thing to counter a random race but this ONE race has little to no counters.
And it's not about the RACE. it's about the mechanics of that race. in any game, any skill that literally puts a STUN on an enemy player is a race that needs to be monitored for that skill. And that skill should never be up with that high of a chance... in any game.

By your words, you told me that having an ability or race that negates others to use their races or anything should never be promoted.... then by your world, a race that locks a race IN LOCATION, unable to:
1- move.
2- turn.
3- use any skill/ultimate/escape that it has.
4- Shoot accurately instead of aim being loced.
5- LOCATE the attacker.
6- React to enemy and RETORT.

ALL IN ONE SKILL that can proc between 33 to 52 % (with claws) of the fucking TIME?
All this while easily camping, hidden of sight. AND having an INSANE amount of health, so that even if you manage to get 1 or 2 shots in between bashes, good luck getting him 100% to zero ...
Oh u managed to get an upperhand on that human somehow? WELL FUCK U, he's teleported somewhere else. Sure u can hear and estimate location and direction of teleport, but by the time u turn, and find the fucking fag again, no wait, u're bashed again, and locked in place, assuming if not dead yet... Rince and fucking repeat.

Now go look at undead and any other damn race...and tell me how THIS fucking piece of shit of a race is an acceptable race on the server? The mere existence of a human in the server is forcing ppl to jump on jacks and spideys and that 1 molecule slot to counter it... thats ASSUMING u HAVE any of those races....

This is entails in the following:
1- turning ANY game from a fun game to a whore fest of who can make which team rage quit first: a thing that has succeeded in keeping the servers at ZERO fucking players for about 50% of the time in the last 2 weeks.
2- Not fair WHATSOEVER to new players who are already having trouble getting accustomed to the server, with no access to those high races yet (maybe a lv 8 human if they are lucky)... meanwhile getting killed by something that the most VETERAN of players have the outmost difficulty to deal with... Fuck a race that can tromp skill on its own no matter who is using it...
3- OH? im new? im a veteran smurf on another account? ima whore the shit out of that OP Human race... Let's make sure that more people jump on this race so that they counter the other ppl who jumped on this race who also tried to counter the PREVIOUS ppl who jumped on this race...
It's a circle jerk of race whoring that can be EASILY fixed with ONE fix to the kit.


My suggestion isn't even to remove the bash from human or change its kit... (even though it really should be ... but wtvr), its a simple VISUAL update for clarity and to balance a race that BY ITSELF, has the most op kit in the game.

Your argument is fucking invalid What.
Period.

[kionay]

bash is a skill that needs to be either removed completely from the game on all champions

someone been playing a bit too much MOBA? heh. heh. heh.

a tracer would really help out with the serious case of "where the FUCK am i getting shot from"-syndrome, that you experience fighting against humans

[Wolfenstinger]

I'd like to state it now - MOBAs and WCS are two different things. Unless we are introduced with a bomb planting / defusal gametype OR a hostage rescue/prevention gametype that ends in a deathmatch bloodbath ... we're not killing turrets and farming for money to build big items to destroy the enemy nexus as our main objective. That's not the goal for WCS.



...As for Human needing a nerf. It's agreed, but at the same time, it doesn't have to happen instantly. Unfair to the new players / players not around as long as some of the "veterans", sure. That I can say is unfair, as veterans got creative in finding the hiding spots by watching others that whored the crap outta it and had a big chance to play with their mechanics. If you plan to stick around for any game and intend to be somewhat good at it, the way time is spent is what it comes down to. I have 2000+ hours on CSS. This is fact. Somebody who probably just picked up the game and never played Counter-Strike, puts in about 50-100 hours. That 50-100 hours could consist of aiming while I put CSS away for the next 6 months. I pick CSS back up, can I aim? More than likely not. The only knowledge I'd still have on the player that put in about 50-100 hours is extremely old strategies and tactics that I used back when I did play.

Same player, watches me and observes me that whole 1v1 session or 5v5 session. Give him or her another 300-600 hours and they'll be able to compete with some of the better players on an equal skill level. All I have now is old tactics and clever ruses that I'm always known to use. Also, anyone that knows me should keep in mind... I can't aim. How one aim? I don't know gun. Guns are evil. I don't want it. It's dirty. Knives are clean. Don't leave a mess. Stab stab stab. Cyber is a mexican.

TL;DR - Nerf the fuck outta bash later. Cyber is a mexican (somewhere in there).

[kionay]

I'd like to state it now - MOBAs and WCS are two different things.

now that i think about it, MOBA champions are perfect contestants for WCS races since they already have 3 or 4 powers or abilities, low level caps, many things you'd see in WCS are already there in place, the numbers just need to be tweaked so that the powers boost your skill, rather than are your primary method of damage (hero %chance to burn on hit goes from 70% good for a MOBA, to 2% or such for WCS)

i have a feeling that if cyber agrees with this, he'd have a LOT of suggestions for future races

and if that's the case, ZERO, i'm so sorry <3

[ZERO]

The race really only became a camping race when it became more detectable when moving while cloaked due either to better player average skill over the years or improvements in their screen (resolution, grafix ect). In the past people had a much harder time tracking and detecting cloaked invisible targets but if you ask me the rise of higher quality gpus to render the image at finer detail in order to see these small things along with physically larger screens has made it easier to kill this race when on the move. Thus to cope with this change over time many started to camp more and more with what was an offensive race which used its bash on the front lines to catch the fast moving players.

I do agree that there should be an effect for bash b/c all other races that have any ability similar do as well and the general counter to any sort of offensive ability is that it does reveal caster location to a degree.

Note that if such changes were to break this race to the point of needing new changes those changes would be to increase the cloaking even further.

[ZERO]

1.0.9
Added && !StrEqual(weapon,"claws",false) to hit test

[CYBER]

as long this race exists on the server as a noob tube race... the wcs server will keep dying.

Restrict this race to ONE person per team. UNLESS the TOTAL levels a person has is below 100 levels (implying they are new) or under 15 levels/skillpoints in the race.

we warned you about this race countless of times zero. it's the "well im gonna go tryhard bcos my cunt is starting to leak" race. and it's the bane of the server existence, which caused it to die. PERIOD.

[Passarelli]

Please restrict this race to require a minimum of 6 people (non bots) on the server when maxed (level 32). This is another race that kills servers.

Bash races (when maxed) should bet set to something like one for every 3 people per team. So 6 people playing allows 1 per team, 12 people playing allows 2 per team, and 18 people playing allows 3 per team. The races in this category are Human, Spider Man, Die Xonvert and Jack (not technically bash but close enough for government work).