A Few Ideas/Things That Need Fixing

[BladeTwinSwords]

ZERO, there are several problems that need to be addressed with WCS.

1. There should be a rule about playing limited races when you are already maxed out. I am getting rather frustrated when I want to play something like Vagabond or Molecule except some person who has plenty of other races to max out, hogs it for hours on end.

2. Spiderman desperately needs a race limit. As of right now, there is only one race that can even beat spiderman when he has a necklace (Human). His evasion rate is too high and he can basically fly through wards without any damage.

3. Raiden should not be allowed to by Gloves of Warmth so he gets unlimited grenades.

4. Raidens Ultimate can crit, instantly killing anyone in its range.

5. Is there any possible way to implement a zone where it does not allow wards or Kayas to be placed like bombsites or hostage areas.

6. There are times where the teams become so horridly unbalanced that one team always has enough cash to buy respawn scrolls while the other team has nothing at all. I would either suggest that you restrict scrolls to when the person is alive or limit them to one per round. It is rediculous that you only pay $1000 to revive (3000 minus the 2000 because its also an ankh). I have received numerous awkward silences when I play on other servers when I tell them that our Respawn Scrolls are not limited or a lot more cash. Most other servers limit them to one and/or have them set anywhere from 7000-10000.

7. When Panorama or Genocide use their revive abilities, they shouldn't have the ability to change their race to something else. I was actually able to revive myself 4 times because I went from Panorama to Shadow Hunter. Before I died as a Shadow Hunter, I changed my race back to Panorama which activated the revive ability and I quickly changed my race back to Shadow Hunter and repeated two more times.

8. I feel as though Chain Lightning and Raidens Rath should be restricted on maps like nipperhouse, crackhouse, and assault. There are times where the CT's will just camp outside and spam their ultimates and never actually do their objective.

9. I know you want to try hard and make WCS a great server but some new people stray away because they start at Level 0. I would make a levelbank of like 3-5 free levels. It's not too many levels but it would be enough to at least get them on their feet.

[maynard]

I would make a levelbank of like 3-5 free levels.
lol. you can get 2 lvl 3-5 in 20 minutes, without even getting 1 kill or being on the winning team.

the server does seriously need some of your love though zero, obviously you're busy right now with the new admin system and server, but when you get that all together we need some of your magic coding done in WCS.

[Blackmage]

1. Yeah, there are a couple of problems with the way racial limits work ATM. Kicking people off mid round ruins rounds too.

3. I've wondered why he can while Orc can't.

4. It can also be avoided. For all that's worth (yay for spiderman strength again!)

6. We really could use a better team balance mechanism overall. When you're sending the people from the better team who have negative KDR, bleh. But, given the freedom of items we have, it often turns into a snowbally game.

7. Yeah, been noticing this myself.

8. The first half, there will always be some maps where some races and skills are better, and some worse. The second is every map. Until you get people playing some disruption race, such as spider man, maps often become "passively pick off the other team".

[maynard]

I am getting rather frustrated when I want to play something like Vagabond or Molecule except some person who has plenty of other races to max out, hogs it for hours on end.

there will never be a rule that's gonna make people have 2 get off a race cause it's maxed. punishing someone for being active is just absolutely retarded. first come first serve is about as fair as it gets. nor do we even have enough races 2 try and enforce a rule like that even if we wanted 2, it would be a constant argument between people "oh well I'm only lvl 4, so I should get it!" then someone else goes "well i just unlocked it! I should get it" and on and on and on... first come first serve, is about as simple and fair as things can get... also most people if you ask nicely will jump off a race for ya and let you play it if they have been on it for a bit.

2
False there's quite a few races that can actually take spiderman down... it would be awesome if we had athena back cause it is a counter for pretty much all the fast and flying races. also spiderman can't pwwn people what he's ripping around, and given they can only go in a strait line (yes i know they can slightly curve 1 direction) so it's not hard 2 follow them wait for them 2 stop and get your shots off.

6 there NEVER will be fair teams in WCS, as people constantly change races the game it's self constantly changes... it's basically like chess.. and there is no way 2 keep things fair. 1 team will always be doing better than the other, those on the losing team should buck up, switch races 2 something they do good with, and fight harder, not qq constantly. you also don't get better at CS by being on the winning team. even if we implemented something that would auto correct the teams, it would be constantly then switching people which would be uber fucking annoying. when someone is in a grove on WCS, you don't autoforce team switch them and fuck with there flow cause the other team is playing like shit. Another thing that drastically changes what team wins is which team isn't just buying tomes instead of guns constantly...ive seen VERY few people in my entire time on WCS bitch about unfair teams and all that shit and it's normally the same 5 people who do it, my advice is 2 buck up, 1 person can easily change the tide of the game just by picking a cheap race like shadow hunter or what not.... look at it this way... and this happens all the time.. if you take 1 team that's playing together, utilizing the races 2 the best of their ability 2 win, and then have them against a team that's just playing whatever character they haven't lvld yet, and not displaying or doing any team work... well it's obvious that the 1 team is going 2 stomp them, it's not fair in any way 2 start playing fantasy football pick with them, 2 make the team that's not really trying, better. it's unfair 2 the winning team, and those who are actually playing smart.

9 we need 2 get the races back out, and fix the glitches, not make the server some noob friendly grounds. like I said, takes about 20 minutes 2 hit lvl 5 lol... even without being on winning team or getting kills, so what's the point.


everything else i agree with other than having zero waste his time making it some how so people can't plant wards if near the bombsite. admins should just do there job as they have the last 2 years on the server and deal with problems as they come. people are generally pretty good at respecting the rules on WCS... unless someone is just trying 2 grief.

the server has ALWAYS done Very well traffic wise... obviously as of late it's not been great cause of the constant crashes and lack of races over such a long stretch.. but people love the server and always have. we need 2 get all the races back out as that would 1 bring so many more people back and 2 would balance out the game a fair bit cause all the available counter classes for the current would be available.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

the single best thing zero could do (other than nerfing spiderman) would be to reduce all damage dealt on the server by 25%. pre-ob, it seemed like far less damage went out than now. it feels like a fucking pub in there, except instead of taking ten steps and getting raped by the cheap mother fucker with the awp, you take three steps ad get raped by the cheap motherfucker on spidey.

[maynard]

it seemed like far less damage went out than now.

I think you're trippin balls. not saying you're wrong, cause I personally don't know, but it seems the same 2 me.

[ZERO]

Actually, on the zm server we did half to raise the hp b/c post ob the shots were registering more.

Once the admin system is fully rolled out I will be placing my attention on getting all the races released for wcs and then balancing things as needed. I will look into changing the scroll cost.

As for the raiden I thought I patched that glitch already so I do not understand what is going on now.

As for glitches in general the next wcs update will be another BIG patch where the entire version is being changed and ALL races updated with different code. This will likely fix many old glitches.

[Blackmage]

6 there NEVER will be fair teams in WCS, as people constantly change races the game it's self constantly changes... it's basically like chess.. and there is no way 2 keep things fair. 1 team will always be doing better than the other, those on the losing team should buck up, switch races 2 something they do good with, and fight harder, not qq constantly.

While I agree that it will never be fair, what we have right now is closer to a game of Magic than a game of chess. Like I said before, once someone starts winning consistently, it starts snowballing in their favour. Often times it's due to player skill, or lack thereof, and not races. Unless the teams are helped, there is little to nothing you can do to fix that. The better players will beat the worse players. When the best players on the other team have necklace, Periapt/vampire and helm, and the opposite team can only afford a ahnk so they have a gun, there's very little you can do. Right now, in the free gun department, we have hell hunter, vagabond, magician, and psuedo-Archmage. A 1-per team, pistols, a shotgun, and sometimes an M4. There's also Flame Pred, but he has a hard time dealing with most problem races. Once jack and dragonfly are released, guns are less of a problem, as you consistently have good guns, and on useful races. But, as the current free gun set is limited, and there are few limits on items, that leads to snowbally games rather than a chess game.


even if we implemented something that would auto correct the teams, it would be constantly then switching people which would be uber fucking annoying. when someone is in a grove on WCS, you don't autoforce team switch them and fuck with there flow cause the other team is playing like shit. ive seen VERY few people in my entire time on WCS bitch about unfair teams and all that shit and it's normally the same 5 people who do it, my advice is 2 buck up, 1 person can easily change the tide of the game just by picking a cheap race like shadow hunter or what not....

As for auto-correction, I hope we don't have something that tries to compensate every round. I agree, that would probably do more harm than good. What I'd like is something that doesn't give the best player from a losing team, or the worst player from a winning team. I'd also like to see something to try and stop people from going out of their way to team stack. However, I'd gladly fuck over someone's groove to have a good game. Mainly, because if they are bad enough that playing on the losing team messes them up that much, they are probably just profiting from bad teams in the first place. Other than the money issues I mentioned before, there is very little reason there groove should be thrown off. Also, should we ruin the groove of someone who is trying to work with his team when his team feels rambo is a good way to win? Why should the winning team have special privileges more than it already gets?

With the "one person can make all the difference", not so much with scrolls at 3000, and people who know how to use them. Shadow hunter is a one and a half trick pony, and less if he has to get to the objectives. Just getting speed (Spidey), usually helps with the worse players who can't aim. If you're being snowballed, most other tricks are laughed at by the necklace almost everyone on the other team has. Yeah, you can easily kill the weaker players, but when you're dealing with 2 or 3 lives of the better players, one person makes a dent more often than a difference. The only race, right now, that I see that adage being true for is vagabond. A good one will help win, a piss poor one (such as myself) is a hindrance.


you also don't get better at CS by being on the winning team.
...
Another thing that drastically changes what team wins is which team isn't just buying tomes instead of guns constantly...


You also don't get better at CS when you get killed before you leave your base or, sometimes, are done purchasing your items (some people don't have every item memorized/have huge APM). It would probably be easier to count the number of maps that CAN'T happen on. The Tome comment is actually mostly outdated. Over the past few weeks, people haven't been buying tomes over guns. Tomes usually come out of extra money. When it does start happening, though, it's quite true.


look at it this way... and this happens all the time.. if you take 1 team that's playing together, utilizing the races 2 the best of their ability 2 win, and then have them against a team that's just playing whatever character they haven't lvld yet, and not displaying or doing any team work... well it's obvious that the 1 team is going 2 stomp them, it's not fair in any way 2 start playing fantasy football pick with them, 2 make the team that's not really trying, better. it's unfair 2 the winning team, and those who are actually playing smart. .

I agree. If you have the people who have 200 total levels and enough xp in a race to have leveled 5 races to max on one team, and the people who are leveling all their races and new players on the other team, unless there is a LOT of skill on the low team, it's going to be a land-slide. As for being "unfair", that's subjective. If I wanted that kind of "fairness" I'd go pub-stomp. I'm usually looking for a good game, and a lop-sided game is "unfair" for both sides. Is it fair that often times these "teams that are going to stomp them" come from deliberate team stacking? Or is that just smart fantasy football picks?



Mostly, though, I'd like a few small fixes in the team balance thing, the rest of the races added, and a few glitches fixed. Give me vagalion, and I'm not worried about vagabond anymore. Give me Jack and athena and Spider man is a joke. Get rid of Raiden's bazooka. Let undead leech to a safer point and not have to get hurt to use his lifesteal. I'd also like to have some races have their item options looked at, but that would take testing.

Tl;dr: Finish getting the server back to where it was. Fairness is subjective, I find a good game to be fair and team stacking to be unfair.


it seemed like far less damage went out than now.

While some things are different now, I actually find the damage, gross, to be about the same. It mostly depends on who is playing what, and it's always varied like that.

I don't like that idea, because I don't think vagabond needs another advantage :P

[maynard]

When the best players on the other team have necklace, Periapt/vampire and helm, and the opposite team can only afford a ahnk so they have a gun, there's very little you can do

the starting races pwwn. Human is Epic... undead kinda sucks since the new CS... it takes no time or skill 2 lvl them, and you can easily lvl the starting races and unlock Shadowhunter which pwwns everything. if you're smart with shadowhunter you can stop just about everything, even if they have ward protection. and that's why we have that race at such a low lvl, so lowbies can have a pwwnage race and when things get tough jump on.. there's also no limit, multiple shadowhunters working together can be damn scary.


Other than the money issues I mentioned before, there is very little reason there groove should be thrown off

that's bullshit and I say this outta expierence.. nothing pisses me off more than when I'm ripping the server apart, and ETB decides 2 throw me into the other team... it throws of my mental balance, my focus and how ive been going about things and generally will impact my ratio. Like any smart/ good player I watch what my team does round after round and I adjust how I'm going 2 play based on how the team as a whole is acting. when you just get plunked into the other team, it completely throws you off balance. I'm not saying it's impossible 2 continue 2 do good if you get team switched, just saying it's really annoying.


scrolls at 3000

I do agree scrolls should be raised.:wtg: 2 atleast a minimum of 5k


You also don't get better at CS when you get killed before you leave your base

I would suggest the person stops sucking then? it takes 1 time for someone 2 get 2 your base harsh fast, and then you obviously know it's gonna most likely happen again... so keep your witts about. just cause someone can move fast, doesn't mean their aim is improved at all and given your entire team should be basically all around you... well yeah...


killed before you leave your base or, sometimes, are done purchasing your items

Lol there's 5 seconds at the beginning of every round, that is beyond enough time 2 buy the gun you need, it's counter strike, come on Lol there's jack shit for gun selection and if you die you got generally several minutes 2 think of what you're going 2 try and do the next round. if you get taken out before you're done buying your weapons then you only have yourself 2 blame. there's like 2 maps on the server where that could even really play out well. I know that house map you can get across it quick, but come on... people are stupid mage, they will know a vegabond is racing 2 their base every round, but wont actually change their gameplay 2 counter it, they will still run 1 direction, never look around them or take measures 2 prevent getting pwwnd... and then they just bitch when they die... people need 2 start playing WCS as it was intended 2 be played, not complain constantly cause it's hard for them 2 lvl their races in peace and what not...


If you have the people who have 200 total levels and enough xp in a race to have leveled 5 races to max on one team, and the people who are leveling all their races and new players on the other team, unless there is a LOT of skill on the low team

unless the other team is all like lvl 5 noobs, there is no excuse. even a lvl 10 human can pwwn and it takes jack shit 2 get any race up 2 lvl 10. and once again there's the shadowhunter pwwnage factor...


"teams that are going to stomp them" come from deliberate team stacking? Or is that just smart fantasy football picks?

dude the teams are completely random each and every map... they are what they are, people should just roll with it and not bitch whenever they are on a losing team... the teams arent pre planed, and every 1 joines at once and grabs a seat where they can. so no clue what you're going about given the teams are 100% random every map.... some people lean 2 either CT or T constantly, like myself, I prefer T, but that's hardly stacking or doing anything 2 insure 1 team is better than the other...


the rest of the races added,

Hell yeah!

I couldn't agree more on getting the server back 2 where it was. I do fully agree with us not having all the races out it can end up sucking and being unfair/balanced due 2 there not being the proper counter classes available... but what I'm saying is we need 2 get the server back 2 where it was, and focus on that. I liked the idea of someting that would prevent people from team swapping/stascking 2 take advanatge of being on the winning team... but I think overall people should just buck up... None of you have ever once heard me qq about being on the losing team ,and I on my own have changed the tide in the game more times than I can cont and have hundreds of screen pics 2 prove it. I'm not trying 2 come off as a self centered ass or something.. my point is that any 1 can do it! if people spent less time qqing, and just played the game and when things were hard sat up in there chair, communicated with their team, and made steps towards changing how things were going, people would have a better time, but I never see this, I just see people QQ and nothing more, and 70% of the time it's cause they want 2 lvl a race and not be bothered while doing it, or have 2 worry about getting pwwnd and that's complete bull shit. if I can do it, you all can 2.

[Blackmage]

Just a couple of things.

Shadow hunter has become more or less a one trick puppy. It's less and less game changing, and there's less and less bitching about it, cause people have finally figured out how to deal with it. Not because of changes, but, as you said, people bucked up and figured it out :) Necklace/stopping running into every fight like a moron, mostly. That, or camp the objective. Now, if only more people would learn to deal with Blood mage... How hard is it to camp a body for a couple of seconds?

And if you think the teams are totally random, next time, wait at the start of a map. Watch how many people sit in spec and wait for a slot to open on team A. I'm not talking about people like ronnie, who aims for T every time, or someone making sure they can have vaga. There are people who wait until good player X or bad player Y join a team before they choose. Or the people who wait till round 1 is done, and end up on the team that just won.

Now, this doesn't happen every time, usually after large game that ended in a landslide.

Finally, the people who are stuck buying stuff at the start of a round are the people I'm talking about. The people who have to get better at CS :P

[maynard]

Shadow hunter has become more or less a one trick puppy. It's less and less game changing, and there's less and less bitching about it, cause people have finally figured out how to deal with it.
I dunno man... ive become more active on CS as of late, and in the last few days alone ive just destroyed people using it lol... I don't think people have really evolved as much as you're giving them credit for.


but, as you said, people bucked up and figured it out

hardly.


There are people who wait until good player X or bad player Y join a team before they choose

that's a complaint more geared towards the game designer, not zero, this community or the mod in general. that's how CS has always been on almost any server.


Finally, the people who are stuck buying stuff at the start of a round are the people I'm talking about. The people who have to get better at CS :P

ofcourse. Christ, if you're a competent CS player you should be able 2 rock a glock or USB and at the very least break a even score wise.