Gideon's suggestions for an even better server

[Sword of Gideon]

I'm spending time thinking about and writing about this server because it's a way for me to say thank you. That's all that I mean by this. Okay? It's a nice letter. :)

It's a good server. For the most part things are fun.
I see some things though which could be improved.

#1: Team balance.
A: It's a constant, non-stop game. Because of the selfishness inherent in us all, we don't care if others suffer for our greed. So teams will remain unbalanced. Team-Scores end up 23-4, OFTEN! An effective team-balancer would be to take the most effective of the winning team and change him with the least effective of the losing team. That will even things out quickly.
B: Scroll of Resurrection should cost $9,000 or more. It becomes a way for an entire team to resurrect if they are winning, and this makes the problem with team balance even worse.
C: If a map gets voted for an extension, the teams swap but the scores don’t. That should be addressed and made right, otherwise what’s the point of a scoreboard at all?

#2: XP Rewards
A: There is absolutely no incentive to win a round. A round winner team XP award would be nice.
B: It's almost painful to shoot someone to less than 10% and then a teammate pops them dead with a single shot. An assisted kill XP bonus like TF2 provides would be nice (I've seen this on another CS server, so it is definitely possible).
C: A sliding scale reward system would be cool. If you were alive at the end of the round, if you touched a hostage (1XP), if you had the bomb (2xp), if you lost/dropped the bomb (-1xp), if you beat more than 4 players, all kinds of stuff!!!

#3: No All-Talk
A: Or at least the option to vote it off. All-talk is fine for alot of the time, but I'd bet you'd be surprised how many people would vote for it to be turned off. I like strategy, and it's hard to even start giving or taking orders when the other team is also listening.

#4: A clearly understandable MOTD for how people should behave in a game.
A: As it stands now, I don't even really *HAVE TO* complete an objective. It's not in the MOTD. I mean, as a player I know I have to do so; but make it so that whatever happens the rules are absolute and without argument. Any admin should be able to say to the entire server, "READ THE MOTD". And it should list the rules out. For instance, some people believe that at 1:30 a player must be completing their objectives. It doesn't say that; it says that they must evacuate spawn. Even some of the admins don't read or know the MOTD.
B: Sometimes interactions between admins and players is not absolute. A well written MOTD would eliminate any possible misinterpretations.

#5: Admins are required to use Green-font type whenever they are interacting with someone in an admin capacity.
A: Even if they use voice. They should be required to repeat what they say in an abbreviated version and use the green-font type. (for one, a lot of people don't even use voice and the admin will be wasting time and getting angry because he doesn't think for several minutes to address EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the same polite way as if it is there first time here to the server). Some admins get all frustrated because people don't listen and then they get really angry when someone doesn't respond, and only realize this at the end of it all.
B: The green-font should never be used for player-viewpoint conversation like “nice shot” or “You jerk” or anything which isn’t an official admin reason. Whenever an admin uses the green-font for personal reasons, it cheapens the authority of all admins. Green-font type should always be like an alarm that grabs everyone’s attention, not used for petty purposes.


#6: Small Admin Rewards.
A: If an admin sees me giving advice to a new player, it would be cool if he could give me XP as a way of saying thanks.
B: If the rewards are kept very small (100-500XP), then it probably wouldn’t be abused. Or if XP is too much, then maybe a little health for the round or something of that nature. Inotherwords, not all admin interactions with players need to be about punishment.

#7: Selecting admins
A: I realize that Ibis survives on people who buy admin; but you get what you pay for so to speak and sometimes that’s less attractive than the money. Wouldn’t it be nice if admins could post about their rewarded players who did something good for the server; and then to ask Ibis if a person could be offered admin for $7 instead of $11, because they were specifically chosen due to their good behavior and help for the server’s good?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i'd say tl;dr, but i'm actually too bored atm. so here this goes:

1) server not finished yet, balance not finished yet

2) LOL. that is all

3) LOL. that is all

4) the admins exist to enforce the rules. they can link to the forums at any time

5) LOL. that is all

6) LOL LOL!! that is all

7) no. we rarely get problem admins, and they get dealt with fast enough. one of the biggest things setting ibis appart from all the other clans is that ANYONE can buy admin.


our wcs server was incredible before the ob-update hit. flatout incredible. zero is trying to get it back to being identical to how it was there. the only thing i see in your post is the fact that scrolls are too cheap. otherwise, it's mostly nitpicking.

[maynard]

I'm spending time thinking about and writing about this server because it's a way for me to say thank you. That's all that I mean by this. Okay? It's a nice letter. :)

It's a good server. For the most part things are fun.
I see some things though which could be improved.

#1: Team balance.
A: It's a constant, non-stop game. Because of the selfishness inherent in us all, we don't care if others suffer for our greed. So teams will remain unbalanced. Team-Scores end up 23-4, OFTEN! An effective team-balancer would be to take the most effective of the winning team and change him with the least effective of the losing team. That will even things out quickly.
B: Scroll of Resurrection should cost $9,000 or more. It becomes a way for an entire team to resurrect if they are winning, and this makes the problem with team balance even worse.
C: If a map gets voted for an extension, the teams swap but the scores don’t. That should be addressed and made right, otherwise what’s the point of a scoreboard at all?

#2: XP Rewards
A: There is absolutely no incentive to win a round. A round winner team XP award would be nice.
B: It's almost painful to shoot someone to less than 10% and then a teammate pops them dead with a single shot. An assisted kill XP bonus like TF2 provides would be nice (I've seen this on another CS server, so it is definitely possible).
C: A sliding scale reward system would be cool. If you were alive at the end of the round, if you touched a hostage (1XP), if you had the bomb (2xp), if you lost/dropped the bomb (-1xp), if you beat more than 4 players, all kinds of stuff!!!

#3: No All-Talk
A: Or at least the option to vote it off. All-talk is fine for alot of the time, but I'd bet you'd be surprised how many people would vote for it to be turned off. I like strategy, and it's hard to even start giving or taking orders when the other team is also listening.

#4: A clearly understandable MOTD for how people should behave in a game.
A: As it stands now, I don't even really *HAVE TO* complete an objective. It's not in the MOTD. I mean, as a player I know I have to do so; but make it so that whatever happens the rules are absolute and without argument. Any admin should be able to say to the entire server, "READ THE MOTD". And it should list the rules out. For instance, some people believe that at 1:30 a player must be completing their objectives. It doesn't say that; it says that they must evacuate spawn. Even some of the admins don't read or know the MOTD.
B: Sometimes interactions between admins and players is not absolute. A well written MOTD would eliminate any possible misinterpretations.

#5: Admins are required to use Green-font type whenever they are interacting with someone in an admin capacity.
A: Even if they use voice. They should be required to repeat what they say in an abbreviated version and use the green-font type. (for one, a lot of people don't even use voice and the admin will be wasting time and getting angry because he doesn't think for several minutes to address EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the same polite way as if it is there first time here to the server). Some admins get all frustrated because people don't listen and then they get really angry when someone doesn't respond, and only realize this at the end of it all.
B: The green-font should never be used for player-viewpoint conversation like “nice shot” or “You jerk” or anything which isn’t an official admin reason. Whenever an admin uses the green-font for personal reasons, it cheapens the authority of all admins. Green-font type should always be like an alarm that grabs everyone’s attention, not used for petty purposes.


#6: Small Admin Rewards.
A: If an admin sees me giving advice to a new player, it would be cool if he could give me XP as a way of saying thanks.
B: If the rewards are kept very small (100-500XP), then it probably wouldn’t be abused. Or if XP is too much, then maybe a little health for the round or something of that nature. Inotherwords, not all admin interactions with players need to be about punishment.

#7: Selecting admins
A: I realize that Ibis survives on people who buy admin; but you get what you pay for so to speak and sometimes that’s less attractive than the money. Wouldn’t it be nice if admins could post about their rewarded players who did something good for the server; and then to ask Ibis if a person could be offered admin for $7 instead of $11, because they were specifically chosen due to their good behavior and help for the server’s good?


1 those who are not new 2 this community are well aware of my thoughts regarding this issue, and that's buck up, and quit being a noob, the reason 1 team normally gets pwwnd is cause they are either not buying weapons and throwing all their cash into xp tomes instead of guns...2 don't change races 2 try and counter what's currently being used by the opposing team.... personally I love being on the losing team, it's how you get better at the game and the mod... people just need 2 buck up and stop being noobs.... not qq when ever they are on a team that's losing has always been my opinion and always will be.

2 actually there is an incentive 2 win a round, it's called cash money, which allows you 2 purchase shit from the shopmenu, buy xp, and buy better guns.. it's actually a pretty damn big incentive....

3 people use voice for just having fun and communicating, no 1 ever uses it for any form of actual strategic advance... you could argue no 1 does cause all talk is on, but the truth is no 1 does it cause no 1 gives a shit. 90% of people who play, play just 2 lvl whatever race they feel like and don't give 2 shits about their team, or actually winning... yet they will complain non stop if they are losing lol...

4 agreed. a MOTD with the server rules would be great... ive been asking for 1 for a very long time now.

5 when an admin addresses people or needs 2 issue a warning... they should and normally do issue a voice warning, and then do a quick spam in text of whatever point they are trying 2 get across, which is more than enough 2 inform people of whatever needs 2 be said. also the only time green font happens is when admins talk with other admins in ma_chat.... ma_say = a teal color font that all can see.

6 no. admins are admins, and should not get any form of special anything for being such. we want admins that love the servers/community, not people who buy it for their own personal gain... people who buy admin so they can benefit themselfs ALWAYS end up being a serious problem. we want admins who buy it cause they love and care for this community, not cause they want special privs. this would also be a serious disrespect 2 thos who have been admins of this community for multiple years, nor can we afford 2 drop the admin price 2 all existing admins...

7 people come and people go. we go through admins constantly... and our community is unique cause we allow any one 2 be a admin provided they have the cash, we do this cause we have enough skilled staff/clan/current admins who will keep them in line, and report any bull shit new admins pull. people on welfare can afford 11 dollars a month lol... there is no reason for people 2 claim it's 2 much money, or anything... also if you really want IBIS 2 prosper, and you want 2 support it, why haven't you bought admin yourself?

[Blackmage]

I'm not going to put words in Aco's mouth, but, I believe a part of his response is because we've discussed many of these topics before, some on numerous occasions. The lack of XP rewards is balanced by the flat xp requirement, for example. The list of things people want added to the server is already huge, and only gets longer while we wait for the server to get back to it's former standing.

1.a&b. This is all known and will hopefully be taken into consideration when Zero has the time to do such things. There are threads (at least one) that deal with this topic.

On the topic of balance: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/6455-A-Few-Ideas-Things-That-Need-Fixing

c. If this was a deathmatch server, it might mean more, but the scoreboard doesn't even know 99% of what happens in the game, so, it's only for e-peen. It only takes into consideration Kills, Bombs, Defuses and Rounds won. Stars just mean that a player was on the winning team and killed the most and often wins the tiebreak or the dieroll, not sure how it figures out ties, or finished the objective. Given teams change, players leave, people inflate their scores killing afks or lose scores by suiciding for a variety of reasons. It doesn't know that the blood mage revived everyone on the team, the crypt lord nibbled everyone on the other team, the vagabond scouted and gave the information that allowed your teamates to kill the enemy. The shadow hunter that forced the enemy to go the long way and stop the defusal. Not even just WCS has this problem, the guy who does 90 damage to 4 people and dies without killing one of them. The one who is at the other bomb site when it's planted and gets half the other team to go to the wrong site. It's a team game, while you might be the best person on your team score-wise, that just means you got a lot of kills, it doesn't mean you're the best player, or even useful. I can go more in depth in the problems with judging a game just by it's scoreboard, and games such as CS:S which do just that. It's why I love psychostats.

2. a. I agree with no incentive to winning, another option would be a disincentive for losing, but either way, it requires some looking at server and xp balance overall. We also have discussions of this in a couple places IIRC. An example disincentive from another WCS, losing team is slayed end of the round.

Response to maynard: In the situation where there are 5 of them and one of me, as I'm probably not going to win, it's better not to try and win, but to try and kill as many of them as I can. If I win this way, so much the better. If I kill even one of them, I've almost made the difference of XP from the tome I could have got from winning if it's the minimum xp gain (2K vs 3.5K, gaining 30 vs the 100). If the bomb's planted or I'm T and the CTs have the hosties, it's better to stay alive and not bother with the objective, as then I don't even need to buy a gun. If I've got a vagabond on the other team and the bomb's down in an open area, I may just spend the rest of the time trying to hunt the SOB down. If it's a map vaga is stupid good on, and he's planted the bomb (dolls or deathcookin) I'm going to try and find the vaga, and fail, rather than die to him stupidly. There are more scenarios if you want, but, we have no good reason to try and win when the odds are against you.

b. Agreed with it being annoying. I'd love some assist rewards, but it would also take some looking at IMO, for balance and for what constitutes an assist. Such as, he shoots me while you're mowing him down. I'm a Night Elf and he takes one damage from me. Do I get the assist. Or, I shoot him, he evades it and takes no damage, you kill him, as that damage is still shown, do I get the assist? How long prior to death does damage give you an assist. How many players can get the assist. Is assist XP flat or based upon the XP received by the killer, or based upon the xp you'd get for killing them.

c. As these would change certain types of gameplay, again, would need some looking at balance-wise.

3.It is possible to adapt to all-talk. If you want to use it strategically, there are certain ways, such as sowing disinformation, making vague comments, ect. You see this all the time when the bomb is planted :)

4. a. http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/6517-Test-and-Confirm?p=108944#post108944

Also, #4 here: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/2240-WCS-Rules

as for b, Ibis rules all left open to interpretation all over the place. There are some set in stone rules, but, most are just general consensus, and that's how they're enforced. I agree with wanting some things more clearly stated, but much of it is stated as it is on purpose.

5. I'd say this is something to bring up elsewhere, not really a WCS-only problem IMO. As such, no comment.

6. I agree with "all admin interaction doesn't have to be negative" and it isn't always, having a drug round for example, can be fun. Not sure on rewarding players for doing something, as admins are just players who are paying for a privilege, so they would need to be eligible too, and in any case, someone would find some way to make it abuse.

7. This, again, is more of a IBIS problem, not just WCS, and probably should be taken up elsewhere. As it has to do with the finances of the server as well, I really have nothing useful to say about it.

[maynard]

the truth and end result is until all the races are re-released, and restored 2 their former glory, there is nothing wroth doing.... our WCS server was off the fucking hook last year before Valve fucked the game and many mods over.... once we restore that, we can work on other things.

[Blackmage]

What's the harm in discussing what we'd like to see? For all we know, we might give Zero some inspiration or find some glaring error or something missing in the rules. Much of it will probably be shot down for one reason or another, but picking the brains of the community can sometimes lead to a few gems, or better ways to do old things. We also might have an idea that has some merit, but needs to be changed for one reason or another, so rather than wait for D-Day to start throwing ideas at the world, why not try to iron them out in the meantime?

[maynard]

I never said there was any harm in anything.. I simply said what our current goals are, and what needs 2 be done before we can expand and go past just the re-release of the races....

[Blackmage]

Ah, ok, I interpreted "there is nothing wroth doing" as saying these threads were pointless. My mistake.

[Masskid]

I'm spending time thinking about and writing about this server because it's a way for me to say thank you. That's all that I mean by this. Okay? It's a nice letter. :)

It's a good server. For the most part things are fun.
I see some things though which could be improved.

#1: Team balance.
A: It's a constant, non-stop game. Because of the selfishness inherent in us all, we don't care if others suffer for our greed. So teams will remain unbalanced. Team-Scores end up 23-4, OFTEN! An effective team-balancer would be to take the most effective of the winning team and change him with the least effective of the losing team. That will even things out quickly.
B: Scroll of Resurrection should cost $9,000 or more. It becomes a way for an entire team to resurrect if they are winning, and this makes the problem with team balance even worse.
C: If a map gets voted for an extension, the teams swap but the scores don’t. That should be addressed and made right, otherwise what’s the point of a scoreboard at all?

#2: XP Rewards
A: There is absolutely no incentive to win a round. A round winner team XP award would be nice.
B: It's almost painful to shoot someone to less than 10% and then a teammate pops them dead with a single shot. An assisted kill XP bonus like TF2 provides would be nice (I've seen this on another CS server, so it is definitely possible).
C: A sliding scale reward system would be cool. If you were alive at the end of the round, if you touched a hostage (1XP), if you had the bomb (2xp), if you lost/dropped the bomb (-1xp), if you beat more than 4 players, all kinds of stuff!!!

#3: No All-Talk
A: Or at least the option to vote it off. All-talk is fine for alot of the time, but I'd bet you'd be surprised how many people would vote for it to be turned off. I like strategy, and it's hard to even start giving or taking orders when the other team is also listening.

#4: A clearly understandable MOTD for how people should behave in a game.
A: As it stands now, I don't even really *HAVE TO* complete an objective. It's not in the MOTD. I mean, as a player I know I have to do so; but make it so that whatever happens the rules are absolute and without argument. Any admin should be able to say to the entire server, "READ THE MOTD". And it should list the rules out. For instance, some people believe that at 1:30 a player must be completing their objectives. It doesn't say that; it says that they must evacuate spawn. Even some of the admins don't read or know the MOTD.
B: Sometimes interactions between admins and players is not absolute. A well written MOTD would eliminate any possible misinterpretations.

#5: Admins are required to use Green-font type whenever they are interacting with someone in an admin capacity.
A: Even if they use voice. They should be required to repeat what they say in an abbreviated version and use the green-font type. (for one, a lot of people don't even use voice and the admin will be wasting time and getting angry because he doesn't think for several minutes to address EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the same polite way as if it is there first time here to the server). Some admins get all frustrated because people don't listen and then they get really angry when someone doesn't respond, and only realize this at the end of it all.
B: The green-font should never be used for player-viewpoint conversation like “nice shot” or “You jerk” or anything which isn’t an official admin reason. Whenever an admin uses the green-font for personal reasons, it cheapens the authority of all admins. Green-font type should always be like an alarm that grabs everyone’s attention, not used for petty purposes.


#6: Small Admin Rewards.
A: If an admin sees me giving advice to a new player, it would be cool if he could give me XP as a way of saying thanks.
B: If the rewards are kept very small (100-500XP), then it probably wouldn’t be abused. Or if XP is too much, then maybe a little health for the round or something of that nature. Inotherwords, not all admin interactions with players need to be about punishment.

#7: Selecting admins
A: I realize that Ibis survives on people who buy admin; but you get what you pay for so to speak and sometimes that’s less attractive than the money. Wouldn’t it be nice if admins could post about their rewarded players who did something good for the server; and then to ask Ibis if a person could be offered admin for $7 instead of $11, because they were specifically chosen due to their good behavior and help for the server’s good?

1a this is a difficult thing to fix because sometimes one person can affect the flow of the game. I've been in situations where i would switch over to the losing team and then they would start winning, so what would i have to do? go spectate?
1b I semi agree, they shouldnt cost 3k but they should not also cost 9k, i would go somewhere around 5k because you could buy a tome or you could res and try to get the same xp to around a tome.
1c noone really cares about the scoreboard, just how manytimes they have personally won >.>

2a i agree with maynard, money is the reason you win the round, with money you can buy gear to help kill people for xp so actually you are "winning" xp
2b maybe, its kinda a good concept. but tell me who gets more xp? the one who killed or the one who shot him down to 1 hp? and how would it be split?
2c so if having the bomb gives you 2, and dropping takes 1, couldnt you just juggle it in the air till you max a race?

3a this is a good idea.... except most of us play wcs for the community aspect, taking away all the talking makes it strategy based and if you want that then this isnt the server for you

4a yes yes yes, motd would help alot. its hard to point someone to the rules since its not of easy access. motd would make it much easier to enforce the rules.

5a i agree because not everyone has voice enabled so speaking to them is useless, a verbal command and a green text would help.
5b but if you couldnt do this then why would you buy admin T.T

6 no bad idea. think of this, someone friend joins then gives him advice, later the same guy joins with either a differnt name and picture, or a different admin on board, one guy could rake up bunches of xp without even playing.... that would be worse then those people that only buy tomes >.<

7 but reporting bad admins is fun :D

[H.Bitch]

Some quick suggestions:

1. Hide under a rock for about 1 month

2. Grow a beard and change your name

3. let this lulz pass over like the storm it is and hopefully you can come out alive.

[Sword of Gideon]

6 no. admins are admins, and should not get any form of special anything for being such. we want admins that love the servers/community, not people who buy it for their own personal gain... people who buy admin so they can benefit themselfs ALWAYS end up being a serious problem. we want admins who buy it cause they love and care for this community, not cause they want special privs. this would also be a serious disrespect 2 thos who have been admins of this community for multiple years, nor can we afford 2 drop the admin price 2 all existing admins...

I think you misunderstood this particular point. I meant that it would be neat to see admins rewarding other people for doing good things for the server, and that it would be cool if there was a system for rewards instead of just for punishment.


7 people come and people go. we go through admins constantly... and our community is unique cause we allow any one 2 be a admin provided they have the cash, we do this cause we have enough skilled staff/clan/current admins who will keep them in line, and report any bull shit new admins pull. people on welfare can afford 11 dollars a month lol... there is no reason for people 2 claim it's 2 much money, or anything... also if you really want IBIS 2 prosper, and you want 2 support it, why haven't you bought admin yourself?

I've alluded to the fact that I do want admin. My problem is the $11. I think that society today is getting nickel'ed and dimed for everything nowadays. I mean, you could even break it down to say the admin cost 35c a day!!! But the reality to me is that if I enjoyed admin then I might be on for a year. THat would be over $130. What could I buy for $130? 2, maybe 3 video games. I've already purchased Orange Box, so I don't see why I should have to pay more for the game. So for me, it's just a different point of view I have about the economics of charging for admin. So I've been trying to see if there was a way to get in for less. If by helping others who are new, trying to maintain civility, and promoting by example that good kind of behavior which was healthy for the server, that perhaps I could get a discount that would make me feel better about the $132 a year price tag.

Still, I think that this server has been very fair to me and my friend's list just exploded from enjoying the server. So I've been thinking about it. Anyway, you asked and this is where I'm coming from.

---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 PM ----------


Some quick suggestions:
1. Hide under a rock for about 1 month
2. Grow a beard and change your name
3. let this lulz pass over like the storm it is and hopefully you can come out alive.

I don't think your advice is good, and I don't think the way it was presented was useful.
The purpose of my letter was to help the server. I've learned that there are many things going on behind the scenes which I didn't know about and which will make this server better, and for me that is valuable information. I've also got people talking about things, and yeah maybe nothing will change; but maybe something will. At least people are talking. And when I don't agree with someone's response, I don't get all bitchy about it. I just accept the fact that we disagree. So I think that this is a valid topic with good conversation.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I've alluded to the fact that I do want admin. My problem is the $11. I think that society today is getting nickel'ed and dimed for everything nowadays. I mean, you could even break it down to say the admin cost 35c a day!!! But the reality to me is that if I enjoyed admin then I might be on for a year. THat would be over $130. What could I buy for $130? 2, maybe 3 video games. I've already purchased Orange Box, so I don't see why I should have to pay more for the game. So for me, it's just a different point of view I have about the economics of charging for admin. So I've been trying to see if there was a way to get in for less. If by helping others who are new, trying to maintain civility, and promoting by example that good kind of behavior which was healthy for the server, that perhaps I could get a discount that would make me feel better about the $132 a year price tag.


there isn't


you don't need to have admin in order to play. you don't need to pay more to be able to play. however, if you wish to support the server and keep it running well and clear of trash, you can donate 11$ and receive admin. the money goes straight to one of three things:
the servers' costs (renting servers aint cheap after all)
upgrades to zero's comp so he can better manage the servers
and an account to hold in reserve just in case we need it (aka, we need an upgrade for the servers, or need to pay a programmer to work on something for a mod)

we don't ask that you pay for any of that. however, if you want admin, you're required to pay. in the end, that 11$ you're trying to get out of helps the server more than all of your good deeds.having admin is not a right, it's a privilege, given to those who help support the servers.

[maynard]

you think it's free for zero 2 run 4 soon 2 be 5 servers? it takes a lot of money 2 keep this community going, it's about showing support for the community if you apparently care about it, not just throwing money away. ive been paying into admin for as long as I have cause I want 2 support this community, and help provide funding 2 keep it running, and 2 also give us options for expanding in the future.

[SCRIBBLE]

you think it's free for zero 2 run 4 soon 2 be 5 servers? it takes a lot of money 2 keep this community going, it's about showing support for the community if you apparently care about it, not just throwing money away. ive been paying into admin for as long as I have cause I want 2 support this community, and help provide funding 2 keep it running, and 2 also give us options for expanding in the future.

:wtg: exactly this.


If by helping others who are new, trying to maintain civility, and promoting by example that good kind of behavior which was healthy for the server, that perhaps I could get a discount that would make me feel better about the $132 a year price tag.

The audacity of this statement doesn't shock me as it has become an all-too-common mindset nowadays. I hope you don't go through life thinking you should be rewarded for doing the right thing, especially something as trivial as assisting others in game.

[Sword of Gideon]

scribble[nuke];109386']
The audacity of this statement doesn't shock me as it has become an all-too-common mindset nowadays. I hope you don't go through life thinking you should be rewarded for doing the right thing, especially something as trivial as assisting others in game.


I do go through life with the full expectation that I should be rewarded for doing the right thing. And why is it that we accept that Admin ONLY stands for punishment??? It should also stand for reward!!! Shouldn't it? Just to balance it out.
What's wrong with an Admin doling out some small rewards when people's actions and words benefit the server? If anything you should strongly embrace anything that makes people feel better about the server and it's admins.

I think the mistake that people make is to see Admin (administrator) as the prosecuting attorney, judge, and jury. I think that completely misses the point. An admin is defined as being a manager, supervisor, or otherwise being a leader. And wouldn't any good boss provide rewards for excellence? I should hope so or we'd never get raises for our jobs. The admin should be seen as a leader and an asset of valuable information to players, and only when required a voice of reason moderator for any trouble. It's as if you are given a toolbox, but the only thing you want to pick up is the ban hammer. I mean that's the kind of talk I'm hearing. If I'm mistaken, I'd like to be enlightened.

If I were an admin, I would focus on how I could reward good behavior. And the viewpoint for me is that generally people respect authority. And so as a respected admin, I would either gain that respect from fear or by gratitude. Now obviously, this doesn't mean that if a person is in the server causing problems that I would not act. Of course I would act. I would act swiftly and surely. But I wouldn't view myself as ABOVE other players, merely as one of them who also supports the ibis servers and has been given some power because of that good deed. Should I not then return that same gratitude that ibis has given me by rewarding me with admin by using that power to reward other people who help new users or keep the peace in some way or otherwise keep the server healthy and happy? I mean, please explain this to me, because I'm utterly dumbfounded that anyone would say that rewarding people for doing the right thing is a bad attribute....

[acolyte_to_jippity]

why reward people for acting in an acceptable manner? it's expected that everyone who plays here hold themselves to some levels of decencey. otherwise they're not welcome.

admins exist to keep the servers clean, hacker-free, and to enforce the server rules. they pay for the servers. they become admin out of a desire to help and support the server. honestly, i think it should cot more, maybe 15$. not since the second grade have you been rewarded for following the rules. they stopped giving out gold stars a long time ago. if someone must learn how to behave here, why should we want them?

[Sword of Gideon]

why reward people for acting in an acceptable manner? it's expected that everyone who plays here hold themselves to some levels of decencey. otherwise they're not welcome.

admins exist to keep the servers clean, hacker-free, and to enforce the server rules. they pay for the servers. they become admin out of a desire to help and support the server. honestly, i think it should cot more, maybe 15$. not since the second grade have you been rewarded for following the rules. they stopped giving out gold stars a long time ago. if someone must learn how to behave here, why should we want them?

I see what you are saying. I know why you are saying it. What my position is here isn't really too different from where you're already at.

If we rewarded people for acting in "an acceptable manner", we'd have to reward most people. And you're absolutely right, there shouldn't be a reward for simply being acceptable or normal at all. It's expected! That's just normal life.
What I'm saying is that when you have a person who goes out of their way to help new people and it comes to the notice of an admin, there should be a way for that admin to say, "Hey look, thanks man. We're not always here. It's nice to know that someone's out here helping new people and actually and literally supporting the server. Cause I tell you what, a mean person can be ignored or muted or cause people to leave, a good person that helps teach a new player about something that feels very arcane and user-difficult such as turning on developer's console and binding a key can cause that player to become a paying admin that values this server because he was valued when he knew nothing at all!! And that's an important distinction. I don't care who helps out new people. If I want a business to thrive, then I'll give those people in that business that deserve rewards something to compensate them & show them my gratuity.

Why? Because it does matter. In any job you have ever held ever, haven't you always responded better to positive reinforcement rather than negative feedback? I know that I have. I would protect some of my managers like they were my family members because of the way I was treated at a place that I had to work at 8+hours a day. I would fight for them. I really would. But most of my bosses were just jerks who would complain and gripe and never give useful advice or acknowledgement for work well done. There are people who play in your servers for a dozen or more hours every week. It is a job for some. And it's the reasonable request from players to be respected for their time in your servers to enjoy good treatment. Going overboard and giving rewards will make people befriend Ibis forever and become lifelong loyal customers that pay for admin and donate and expand Ibis even more!!!

[maynard]

there should be a way for that admin to say, "Hey look, thanks man. We're not always here. It's nice to know that someone's out here helping new people and actually and literally supporting the server.

ya.. we already got a system in place like that... it's called the we do exactly what you said... when admins or clan see someone going above and beyond it's eventually noticed, talked about and builds a reputation for the person in this community... so... I guess you've won? we already do what you said we should do.

you have this really weird view of admins, and it's only you that seems 2 have it.. granted we have some admins that are a pain in the ass, but it seems like 2 you the admins are horrible cops and nothing more? the majority of people in this community like our admins, and are happier playing when an admin is on 2 make sure no bull shit happens. and like I said when someone is going above and beyond it's noticed, appreciated and can lead 2 being in the clan.

[B1ackOut]

I dont know what experiences you have had on ibis, but I'm pretty sure that most new peoples questions are answered verbally or by text, and if not the answers lie in console about ever 1-2 minutes. I can see where you are coming from but giving away rewards for being nice, it just seems like an unnecessary use of ibis' resources. As for the admin, if we dropped the price for you or select people we thought to be good admins, we wouldnt see how much you truly like this server and how much of your life you dedicate, besides then we would have to lower the price for everyone. Look not even the clan all have admin, why would we make exceptions for other people when they should be the ones who get discounts. Funds might be low, but you can always contribute by being a good person, telling admins about abuse and hackers..etc. Your reward will be getting a reputation and further advancement and popularity with the people you befriend.

[Steamer]

I do go through life with the full expectation that I should be rewarded for doing the right thing.

Good luck with that. :wtg:

[Sword of Gideon]

#1: Team balance.
A: It's a constant, non-stop game. Because of the selfishness inherent in us all, we don't care if others suffer for our greed. So teams will remain unbalanced. Team-Scores end up 23-4, OFTEN! An effective team-balancer would be to take the most effective of the winning team and change him with the least effective of the losing team. That will even things out quickly.
B: Scroll of Resurrection should cost $9,000 or more. It becomes a way for an entire team to resurrect if they are winning, and this makes the problem with team balance even worse.
C: If a map gets voted for an extension, the teams swap but the scores don’t. That should be addressed and made right, otherwise what’s the point of a scoreboard at all?

A: This should exist. Teams are very often skewed to the point of being ridiculous.
B: Whenever a team wins, they get the cash. So if the other team tries to get a win to get more cash, then the team that already won can buy scrolls. Some of the disagreement was that people tend to buy tomes; well I'm in the server about 4 hours a day, and I can tell you from personal experience that the winning team also buys scrolls to protect that cashflow. And at $3,000 it is grossly unfair. BTW: I always buy scrolls, and I NEVER EVER buy tomes, so this rule would impact me quite a bit. It's still unfair. It should cost $9,000.
C: Apparently someone agreed with me, because now the teams don't swap.

Statement: If game balance didn't matter then give the CTs 500health every round. The fact of the matter is that it does matter. And every single game ever made has been alpha and beta tested all along the way of development for game balance. A game of 23-4 is fun for the winning team only, a game of 14-13 is fun for the entire server.

[ZERO]

It should be noted that team talk is already handled as there is a way to talk to your team only via mic see here:
http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/5777-Talk-to-your-team-only!

[Sword of Gideon]

Interesting. Thanks.

I heard from 4 different people today who were in favor of the new scroll price. So far, no one misses it. At least not vocally yet. I'm sure there are some that do miss it.
I miss it in a way LOL!, I never purchased tomes ever; and scroll was my main purchase, and until it was fixed I wasn't going to be left out. Now I buy Ankh the most.

I do plan on supporting this community. We just got a raise and I've already asked to have a small amount to cover being a supporting member. One of the biggest reasons was because, even as a player I was listened to by someone that agreed without prejudices and incorporated a couple of my ideas. I mean, that's really a big compliment that even a player can have an impact, and not just the paying members. It also says volumes about the open-mindedness that exists, and this all helps me to remain open-minded when I'm dealing with others here of different opinions without making any kind of yellfest or anything. The whole Ibis experience for me has been excellent, being treated fairly and even more than fairly at every juncture. So as soon as the new checks start rolling in, I'll help.

[StarsMine]

Im against the new scroll price, before the only time they were a smart move is if you get 2 kills one of the being a headshot (and with skills activating thats even more difficult) for it to be worth the price vs tomes. but whatever

also can we PLEASE turn off this dead talk shit. The dead can not talk to the living. I can understand this feature if ghosting was an issue, but ghosting has never been an issue in WCS

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Im against the new scroll price, before the only time they were a smart move is if you get 2 kills one of the being a headshot (and with skills activating thats even more difficult) for it to be worth the price vs tomes. but whatever

also can we PLEASE turn off this dead talk shit. The dead can not talk to the living. I can understand this feature if ghosting was an issue, but ghosting has never been an issue in WCS

dead talk was always on. what's wrong with it? wcs is probably the most social server of the 4 (now 5) anyway

[StarsMine]

Preventing the dead from talking to the living has not always been there
Exactly it is the most social server, so why are we making it so we cant converse?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Preventing the dead from talking to the living has not always been there
Exactly it is the most social server, so why are we making it so we cant converse?


are you asking for dead talk to be on or off?

[StarsMine]

Whatever setting will make it so the dead can converse with the living again. So I assume off

[maynard]

Preventing the dead from talking to the living has not always been there


yes it has.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

yes it has.

really? i could have sworn i remembered still chatting w/ folks even after death...

huh.

[maynard]

you can talk with voice, not text.

[B1ackOut]

dead talk was always on. what's wrong with it? wcs is probably the most social server of the 4 (now 5) anyway
Really, i assumed zm was do to half the fun being dicking around. Ahh the memories.

[maynard]

Really, i assumed zm was do to half the fun being dicking around. Ahh the memories.

this is the wcs section.. not zm...

[Sword of Gideon]

Well now that much of the team balance issues have been attended to I've been seeing a lot of really even scored games. It's great. Everyone feels like they are contributing to a possible team win at the end of a map.

However, there still exists the times when several good players end up on the same team. I know that there are team-balancers out there; I just wish it wouldn't ruin the fun and challenge of being on a single team and feeling a kinship with that team. Most of the team-balancers are really finicky and some poor jerk is thrown from team to team to team again. But I guess I would be okay with that if it made sense. I mean, if I was 19-3, then change me over! Let me help... er rather, Make me help because I'm too damned selfish to ever want to even the teams myself. It's about XP you know, so winning is everything, and team play is nothing.

But really, if there does exist a decent team-balancer; please implement it. I think that would pretty much finalize a huge leap in server balancing and once that's done I believe that your server will be statistically more popular than a month ago. All of these changes are building up and I see more people more often. Today, I saw an 18player high; that should be standard fare, not bragging rights. We'll get there. And the best way forward is game balance and team balance. Look at your numbers next week. I think you're going to be delighted that people are playing in bigger games and not leaving because of terribly unfair games. After some time, just look at the real numbers. It will surprise you. People like competition. Overwhelming power is overwhelmingly boring. Close games are the key. Just make things interesting and people will always love it here. It doesn't need to have a race that's unbeatable or has nuclear bombs for weapons. Just a different idea about movement or combat is all it takes; but occasionally we find we've gone past the reasonable and into the extreme. That's when we need to cut corners and make the game fun again. The players are thanking you and will continue to do so. It's a different game now, but it's far more fun now than ever before!

[StarsMine]

you can talk with voice, not text.
As if right now, when you are dead you can not use voice chat to talk to people who are alive. I think text works the same way except for admin talk


Also gideon, WCS by its nature balences itself. The other team rapes you? change race to something that rapes the races that they play and move on with your life. True stupidity and stubborness to get OFF the damn race you playing makes this difficult, however, They can be happy with there .5 K/D while I go on and actually try.

[Spasm]

Well now that much of the team balance issues have been attended to I've been seeing a lot of really even scored games. It's great. Everyone feels like they are contributing to a possible team win at the end of a map.

However, there still exists the times when several good players end up on the same team. I know that there are team-balancers out there; I just wish it wouldn't ruin the fun and challenge of being on a single team and feeling a kinship with that team. Most of the team-balancers are really finicky and some poor jerk is thrown from team to team to team again. But I guess I would be okay with that if it made sense. I mean, if I was 19-3, then change me over! Let me help... er rather, Make me help because I'm too damned selfish to ever want to even the teams myself. It's about XP you know, so winning is everything, and team play is nothing.

But really, if there does exist a decent team-balancer; please implement it. I think that would pretty much finalize a huge leap in server balancing and once that's done I believe that your server will be statistically more popular than a month ago. All of these changes are building up and I see more people more often. Today, I saw an 18player high; that should be standard fare, not bragging rights. We'll get there. And the best way forward is game balance and team balance. Look at your numbers next week. I think you're going to be delighted that people are playing in bigger games and not leaving because of terribly unfair games. After some time, just look at the real numbers. It will surprise you. People like competition. Overwhelming power is overwhelmingly boring. Close games are the key. Just make things interesting and people will always love it here. It doesn't need to have a race that's unbeatable or has nuclear bombs for weapons. Just a different idea about movement or combat is all it takes; but occasionally we find we've gone past the reasonable and into the extreme. That's when we need to cut corners and make the game fun again. The players are thanking you and will continue to do so. It's a different game now, but it's far more fun now than ever before!

Quit fucking whining for fuck sakes. IF this server is that damn bad go somewhere else.

[StarsMine]

Gideon.
FUCKING LOOK
http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/4600-Test-Race-Tracker

All those races that are out that you claim are OP (THEY WERNT in the god damn first place) will be doubly countered by those races that are not out yet.

I cant beleave we had to nerf Vaga due to your bitching. The race is hard enough to play as in the first place as they are so god damn easy to kill.
all he has is a scout, the most useless gun in the game IMO. sure he is invisible, but do you know how to counter that? flash light, blood, there diffusal kit/bomb, your ultimate, your radar, and para if you so choose to.

[Masskid]

Well now that much of the team balance issues have been attended to I've been seeing a lot of really even scored games. It's great. Everyone feels like they are contributing to a possible team win at the end of a map.


who is this everyone? or are you pulling these statistics out your ass

[SCRIBBLE]

who is this everyone? or are you pulling these statistics out your ass

They're coming directly out of his asshole.

I do not look forward to him subscribing as an admin. It seems as if he will be switching players back and forth anytime the team win count isn't dead even.

[Masskid]

sweet :D how much would it cost me for some of those statistics for my next meeting