Fixing ZM_Little_Town

[Sh4dows]

So I posted in the [Remove] thread for this map but I figure I will post here and get some feedback. Honestly, I hate this map. Its so one sided it just looses its fun after the first time you play it, not to mention all the godamn glitches. Yet its on every 3rd map... So I set out to repair/enhance this map. I haven't really mapped since CS 1.0-1.5 (didn't do much then either) so I am rusty at best and don't know any of the Source tricks YET. But I am willing to learn and so far its been good.

To start I squared up all the outer walls and brought the skybox in so you cant fall off the map or see that terrible crap that happens when you look into "void" space. I put some invisible blocks up around most of the map to keep players off most of the buildings but I left one area accessible still. I plan to modify it slightly to allow a bit better access to it in the future for more playable surface. I also filled those holes around the edges of the map where you could see into the void so as of now the map is "sealed" for better fps and whatnot.

The vending machine area is a bit tricky but so far I removed one of the chambers and a wall to move things around and opened up the hallways a bit for better movement by zombies. I also took out 1 vending machine from each of the 2 front chambers. Its a start but its something. I plan to make a few more cade spots here and there and to modify a few places that are just impossible to get into. I don't plan on making them easy, just possible, this will take some tweaking. I will be posting screen shots soon.

I shrunk the vent a bit, its now a bit shorter so you cant get 8 people in there but it still should be held by 2 for a while. Again, this can change to fit the players needs.

The first time through I kept the original mappers skyline but the more I look at it the more I realize its complete crap, it may be getting updated in my next revision since it really doesn't affect the gameplay at all. I hope to re-introduce the 3d skybox as soon as I learn how to build it myself(working!), I have a few ideas for it that should be cool.

At this point I am looking for suggestions, I know a lot of people feel a lot of things about this map. I am not opposed to possibly expanding it a hair, possibly open up a few buildings or roof tops, if I can figure it out I would be willing to do it. But feedback from the people that play it would be awesome.

A few screen shots.
This one shows the fixed rooftop area of the skyline, no glitches and smooth roof all along.
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Same thing but also shows the fixed road area and the lack of flying buildings in the sky.
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New map profile, notice it's square.
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The old profile, this is what cause most of the issues, he also didn't actually put the skybox against the buildings so there were holes where there shouldnt have been holes.
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New vending area layout, I'll get pics of the old one so you can compare.
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Old vending area.
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New vending area, trust me its bigger. This area still needs tons of work.
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The pink boxes above the buildings are clipping boxes aka invisible barriers.
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Old glitchy floor area.
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Old skyline glitch
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[BladeTwinSwords]

I must say. The fact that you went out of your way to make this map actually bearable is something to behold.

[Evil]

Hm. Seems official.

[Pl@YwithM3]

excellenttt!! the main problems i had with that map u pretty much just raped. i hated the vendy clusterfuck building, everyone gets in teh way of each other and its (almost) impossible to win against. the falling off teh map glitch you took care off (bravo) i also really like that you made the vent smaller, it really is too big for 2 yet too small for 3.

maybe if we made the other giant buildings a bit more appealing to caders than they wouldnt all whore themselves to that one place as they always do.. how about moving some stuff around in that giant garage place where all the trucks are? ^_^ or maybe a few more secret rooms in the map.. cuz this one barely has any.. idk just a thought, but theres my feedback :wtg:

[Sh4dows]

I'm working on it a little today, I had to move my laptop to somewhere else since my shoulders are in spasm from working on the couch....for some strange reason I'm in a lot of pain, figures I'm out of muscle relaxers or other good stuff. I checked the vending area, its was pretty much crap, none of the doors were even wide enough to get a vending machine through even if you were lucky enough to have things lined up and no one shooting. So I widened the doorways and enlarged the rooms so the objects can actually move and/or I'm probably removing the top of the door way so you can get over the crap. Dunno what the units are measured in but the vending machines are roughly 49x41 wide and 85 tall, so I made the doors just over that dimension so its possible to get them out.

Found a secret too, for now it stays. Added one or 2 little ones for now, they still need tweaking. The big building near the vending area that I put in is hollow, I haven't figured out how to use it but its an option.

I just realized that I cant even test this locally since I don't have the proper physics without zombiemod. Does anyone know where to download the version used on the server, I will try to setup a local server for testing since I don't want 300 betas of this out there.

Re did the vending area a bit more today, opened things up some more and condensed some of the space. If I can get to testing I may add some other prop into these rooms if its to easy to get in but its looking good.

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The shortened vent, this may still need tweaking but its a work in progress. 2 people should be able to hold this for a while, I'm guessing that 2 players should come to the front of the first full block in the back roughly so theres plenty of room to push zombies back but not enough room for 4 people safely.

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This area I am looking at now, normally this is where I cade. Its a super cade when done right but takes a little bit of patience, time and skill to do. I don't know for sure if I'm removing the one room but I'm pretty sure I'm opening up the stairway a bit and puting in a landing, I may have to re arrange the lower floor a bit but that could use some improvements too.

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I was looking at the garage area too Pl@y, the area doesn't work for crap with parachutes enabled, there's far to many ways to get to people in there with them on. I am looking at removing the truck closest to the boxes in the corner so people can't jump from there and I may extend the ceiling a bit for more room above for maybe a catwalk. I may put walls between the trucks to make them into separate bays so zombies can only attack from the front so if you keep shooting you may be able to hold it. Side note, the area on the roof of this building that you can get to almost looks like it was done on accident with how the original mapper did it plus the fact that its a total glitch if you get to the second part (falling forever), I will probably leave this area accessible but with some tweaks now that the map is secure.

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I think that's it for today, I need more suggestions for fixes or I am pretty much stuck. I would change any number of details that I don't like but I don't expect that I know whats best for all. If anyone can give me breakdowns of the current cade spots, like how hard they are to setup and then break and what should be fixed please feel free to let me know. I may be willing to release a test version of this for some of you to check out soon, not for release or server use but so you can give me feed back, let me know if your interested.

[Sh4dows]

More updates! I worked on the garage area, it seems better. I raised the ceiling and I put "bays" in around the trucks so people can defend on top of them, adjusted the boxes in the corner so its more dependable and moved the non essential crap on the floor. I will be adding boxes to the rear of the truck that I flipped around but I doubt that anyone will use them, its an option though.

Added a new "secret"(its easy) room and made another section of roof available to play on. Oh yea, I cloned the cannon in zm_desperados and its on a roof now, right now its an accessed by some invisible platforms that aren't too complicated, not sure how you can defend the area other than pure firepower but its a work in progress. This may or may not stay, I was doing it mostly as a test to see how it worked, its a pretty cool bit of work that I take no credit for.

Changed the restaurant type area next to the garage. I made the window smaller, you can crouch through it but not just walk through it like before and I changed out the small book case for a large one. The small case was too small to even cover the doorway at all so I swapped it. With the new improvements I will likely be fixing the small tables in the rear so they cant be used as cade material, I doubt they are needed to pull it off. I also thinned the walls, they were so fat it just looked odd, I also raised the ceiling a bit for better aesthetics.

The little red shed near the vending hell area got some adjustment, I opened the upper window to be the size of the door below and removed the lower lip.

Tweaked the few little details and some cosmetic things that no one will probably notice but I did it anyway since I noticed. I decided not to be a dick and put in some super secret mapper hiding spot that only I can get into, that pretty much defeats the purpose of fixing this god forsaken map so I wont do it.

The current location of the cannon, it may not stay in the final revision but its fun to play with.
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The new garage area as of now, there will likely be I beams or a catwalk or something else in here at some point, I am doing each part in stages and trying to figure out a balance.
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The adjusted shed.
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The now accessible roof top and its access.
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I added an extra couch in the upper half of the one building thats accessible through a breakable wall over a storage container, you probably know where this is.
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The new "secret room" this isn't done yet and its really not a secret once a few people find it(and they will)
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The improved restaurant area.
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Thats probably it for the weekend.

[Evil]

I really like The improved restaurant area. Might be something new we could try.

[ZERO]

Can we get a link to this new version?

[Sh4dows]

Still not quite done yet but as soon as I get it finished I will upload it here. I still have to test it for errors before I let it out since I'm not an incompetent ass. I was trying to build up a few buildings that are kinda crap now and extend some areas that are not playable now so there are some more options for hold points but if you want I can cut a version now that's got everything I have updated and none/little of the expansion areas as soon as I'm pretty sure I plugged all the holes and debug it. If anyone wants to check it out and give me some opinions feel free to pm me but I really would like a second opinion(or more) before this hits the server.

At one point I made the canon remote controlled which was pretty cool but I am cutting it from my final version, its just goofy and doesn't play well. I also haven't found a good location for the controls that's not biased towards either team since its so damn powerful.

[Sh4dows]

Still working on this. I have run into a few setbacks that haven't helped get this done. The first one was a part of the map would cause the map/server to crash if you went into it and I could find nothing wrong with it anywhere. Literally there was nothing in the area that was causing me problems and it still happened. I had to redo a bit of it but thankfully I had saved a separate copy a few days before this bug appeared so I'm getting back on track. Second is my machine is fighting me, Hammer crashes pretty often so I have taken up the policy of saving every time I do pretty much anything so I don't have to redo a ton of work again. I should have a stable build soon if someone wants to test it, I am not sure how some of the cade/hold areas are balanced.

Figured out how to make it so you can shoot lights out which is pretty cool, I only implemented this in one area thats already lit up pretty well.

I hid a few weapons on the map for the people that have given me input, some are hidden better than others. They are just color modified versions of the respective players most used gun according to psyco stats(kills), with a little extra ammo.

BladeTwinSwords - red P90 with 1500 rounds
Pl@YwithM3 - purple/pinkish Pump Shottie with 1000 rounds
Evil - you like the P90 too so I added your #2 so theres an all black M4 with 1200 rounds in there

Thats all for now, I haven't forgotten this.

[Evil]

Everybody will love you for this. :wtg:

[Steamer]

Hows the map work going?

I hope this isn't a fucking troll thread.

[Sh4dows]

Honestly, I haven't worked on it in a while. I have had a series of issues come up, some related to my laptop being on the verge of death(still isn't running for shit) some due to life and a lot due to the fact that I honestly forgot about this project with all the other ones I have been involved in. I also got a pile of new games for my consoles that I have been playing and stopped beating the little bit of life left in my machine with CS:S. It just overheated trying to test the map...... so I am going to have to rig up some cooling system before I get to really play, I may get half an hour before it craps out.

Anyway enough shit, here's the current version of the map. I haven't worked out all the bugs(didn't see any but I can't be 100% sure) but I doubt my machine will take much more abuse. I did have to redo a large portion of it due to a bug where it just crashed every time you went near a certain spot, that shouldn't happen but I make no guarantees its all good. Some feedback would be awesome, I can fix pretty much everything as long as I have some direction.

Now, here it is.


EDIT: Shit, I left a few extra guns around I put in there so I had enough ammo to test with a few revisions back....hope they don't mess it up too bad. If I can get my system to behave I will do a few things in the next few days, I just wanted to get something up before I lost track of this again.

[T3h tyrant]

new little town? fuck yeah

[Sh4dows]

Its still a work in progress, let me know if anything needs changing. Its been so long since I worked on it I can't remember what I finished and what I was working on (like the guns I left.....) but I will try to get on here more often and see if there's anything people want. Hopefully I can figure out where I left off at by tomorrow night. If the weather holds out I will be going to the range and shooting the real deal, I haven't been able to go for a while so that trumps digital guns.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

new little town? fuck yeah

keep your rank-whore boner in check. he remade it to balance it out and make it NOT 100% ct sided

just saying

[Rosie]

The map looks great! It is close enough to the old map where people will not get lost, but at the same time it has a few secrets. I really want to know how to open the locked door btw. I think leaving some of the hidden guns in there would be a great idea. The ledge outside of the hidden upstairs room could stand to be a little higher. The poison zombies can reach that on a jump I belive. I could not get the props to function correctly, but i belive that was on my end. The physics were off. All in all great job man. You should patch up what little there is wrong and release it.

[TheFallen927]

I will have to try this soon.

[Sh4dows]

The map looks great! It is close enough to the old map where people will not get lost, but at the same time it has a few secrets. I really want to know how to open the locked door btw. I think leaving some of the hidden guns in there would be a great idea. The ledge outside of the hidden upstairs room could stand to be a little higher. The poison zombies can reach that on a jump I belive. I could not get the props to function correctly, but i belive that was on my end. The physics were off. All in all great job man. You should patch up what little there is wrong and release it.

Thanks, I appreciate it. It was a bit more work than I first though just to get the map "fixed" but it was an interesting project and I learned a lot. I tried not to totally destroy it while trying to add some balance, I still have my doubts about a few areas but that's what I need feedback for.

In the real world, how would you get into the locked places, look for the obvious thing...... just a hint. The big indoor area is still under development but like I said, I wanted to get something out. I made it a point to make nothing in this map that only I would know how to get into, so no long unlock process or crazy codes. There are hiding spots but once someone sees them they aren't that hard to get into, most are very easy to find *coughnoclipcough* try shooting things when you find a hiding spot. The hidden guns stay, the ones in the back of the truck will go away or at least get moved. Most of the ledges on the tops of buildings are blocked off, if a human can't get on it then its blocked. Are you talking about whats above the red room, if not a more detailed location or screen shot will help me get it fixed. The defendable rooftop area near ct spawn will likely get a chainlink fence around most of it except the opening to jump up.

As for the physics......My machine crashes every time I try to compile this map unless I set it to "fast" so I have no idea what it skips but that may be the issue. Most objects I played with moved when shot, you cant "use" objects without zombie mod, normal CS:S doesn't let you use most things. I may put up my vmf files here so someone else can try and compile it on a machine that isn't dead, I suspect most of my problems are related to this 4 year old laptop.....

[T3h tyrant]

keep your rank-whore boner in check. he remade it to balance it out and make it NOT 100% ct sided

just saying

LOL that was funny. no but lets get real here the reason its good that he made a new little town is because the old one is completely fucked up and ct never lose..i want it to be more t sided gives me more of a challenge....

Just saying

[Rosie]

The locked door I had issues with had a small board across it. :banghead:
The map looks great as I said before. The following would be the issues I have.

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This pic is of the ledge I was hoping could be raised. As I said Ibis's Poison zombie's can jump and tag there with ease.

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These are pics of a bookcase that I could not get to move at all. If it is by design then that is fine, if not something to look at.

the only other thing I have is that I think the large locked cage area needs another prop. The 2 nendy's will not make a viable cade, and it is a great space for the humans to pile up, and then in turn die in mass. Any cade there can be broken by any regular ZM player. They just have to know how, and it will be easy to give another zombie the kills. even with a 3rd prop. I think a 3rd vendy would be best but it is up to you.

[Sh4dows]

Lol on the door, like I said use just a little logic on it and the answer will come to you....

Attachments aren't working but the one I found so far is a small book case near the door in the building with lots of book cases. It looks like its a "prop_static" meaning it doesn't move, I just checked and that's how it is in the original. Now its fixed, if that's the one your talking about. Is the ledge in any of my screenshots?

The extra prop in the cage area is done, I would like to see how it plays, things can always be tweaked later.

Thanks

[acolyte_to_jippity]

ummm, am i the only one who can't see those attachments?

[Rosie]

The attachments work on my end so I dont know. The bookcase in question is the one you described. The ledge has a series of jumps up the side of a building to get to it. The ledge itself is located on the edge of the map near the fenceline. there is a large room with bulletproof windows in the building. Acces to that room is in the front windows, the ledge is on the back.

[Sh4dows]

The only bullet proof glass I found was the building I'm standing on for this screenshot. This ledge? If so thats how it came from the old map, I was contemplating continuing the jumping ladder a bit and maybe taking it up to the roof. BTW that room isn't currently accessible from the windows since you can't get up there. Again, there's a simpler solution.

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[Rosie]

That is the ledge. I forgot I had the gravity at 400 so I guess at 800 you couldnt get in. To be honest I didnt think about it after I jumped in. The ledge is generally for new players anyways, and they need to die. Tomorrow I'll go back in and look around in normal mode. I think this map is close enough to have Zero try to integrate it. I am sure there are some tweeks you want to make, and he is out of town for the week, but I think this could use a server test run.

[Meltdown]

Looks promising and allot better then the one we got now on the server. For zombie lovers it is just plain nightmare.