[Suggestion] Ressurection/Respawning

[ShadedFlash]

Hello, new player to the WCS server, but not WCS itself, nor CSS/1.6. Love the community and thought I'd participate on the forums, now that I know there are forums!

So far, my biggest suggestion would be the following, and I apologize if this has been brought up before..

Problem: Any ability in WCS that respawns a player tends to be a free insta kill for the player that killed the respawning victim, sometimes even multiple times. This is due to a combination of factors, actual acknowledgement of respawn (sometimes the message is covered up, goes unnoticed, simply not expecting it, happens..no big deal), aim does not reset to where it was before death..you could be facing an entire other direction sometimes, and finally, the time it takes to pull out the weapon you once had equipped seems to be the biggest issue (sometimes you die before you even get a chance to shoot, defeating the point of the respawn), all tends to lead to a free kill, even with respawn delays.

Solution: 1(or 2, whatever seems the perfect fit) second invulnerability upon respawn. Just long enough for the player to actually have a chance to acknowledge the respawn, get their bearings and have enough time to pull a gun up to actually make their redemption attempt. (if invulnerability is too powerful, perhaps make them immobile or reduced speed during it, so they cannot simply flee during it)

Too many players just seem to sit around bodies for the respawn, especially on population downtimes where there is less chaos with smaller groups, simply handing free xp over to the person that already got the upperhand in killing them and wiping their bought items, etc while often times being a completely involuntary action (no choice to rez or not)

Alternative solutions:
Require players to press a button (1, ultimate bind, etc) to accept a respawn within a given timelimit (up to current respawn time delays), giving the player the choice if and when to respawn, allowing them to be more ready to get their vengeance.

Respawn players back in spawn [similar to warden respawn] with a no spawn camping rule set in place (some maps cannot be helped due to objectives)

Respawn player to the nearest teammate (if spawn is not an ideal place), or to the person actually rezzing them (bringing more potential strategy to rezzing races)

Give respawning players 3 second 100% invis and 100% speed increase (but may not attack?) allowing them to make a quick escape and reposition themselves to attack once again, while still allowing enemies to possibly attack them and kill them before they get away.



Finally, a related question: Is it possible to attach anhks to a round basis instead of respawn basis so that respawns do not eat anhks and cause a player to lose their weapons next round if they die again? also, anhks do not restore weapons upon bomb explosions, bug?

Thanks and glad to be apart of an awesome community!
-ShadedFlash

[Blackmage]

Only problem I see with some of your changes (invun, super speed) is it turns it from a free kill on them to a free kill by them. As with respawns right now, it won't always happen, but it would happen.

I do like the "confirm respawn". Respawning in wards, respawning while falling to my death. It would also give more visibility that you're coming back. Even if it was "deny respawn" to punish those who are not paying attention after round so the lazy don't have to push buttons.

Moving the respawn area could cause other complications, such as respawn by teammate when all of them are dead, taking them away from the objective so they can't win. We'd get used to it though.

However, do we really need to make respawning more powerful? When it works, it's giving that team one more player. I've always looked at respawn killing as a way of dealing with that.

If you're not a stat whore, bind kill to a key, and when in a bad situation upon respawning, spam that key :P NO MORE FREE XP. *Ahem* Not that I do that when a BM respawns me in wards. No, NEVER.

On the Ahnk topic: If it's on round instead of respawn, do you mean whether or not you die, or are you asking for a more fully coded Ahnk? In any case, I do agree, losing it upon mid-round respawn is annoying, but with some races, such as panorama or genocide, if you DON'T have ahnk, you don't have a gun.

The bomb topic: You don't lose items upon bomb death, so you still have your Ahnk, lace ect. upon bomb explosion. So, no, it wouldn't give you items back. This is why races who spawn their guns have no reason NOT to stay with the bomb until death. They lose nothing. Getting people to UNDERSTAND this, however...

[acolyte_to_jippity]

respawn races aren't meant to rambo shit. their strength lies in teamfights. the fact that if your team is working together, the opponents will need to stop focusing your dead body and change to your teammates, which is when the respawning becomes so powerful. if you're expecting to take a respawning race and just go into the midst of the enemies and feel your respawning should make you survive, you're an idiot.

[emTr0]

respawn races aren't meant to rambo shit. their strength lies in teamfights. the fact that if your team is working together, the opponents will need to stop focusing your dead body and change to your teammates, which is when the respawning becomes so powerful. if you're expecting to take a respawning race and just go into the midst of the enemies and feel your respawning should make you survive, you're an idiot.

I actually agree with you. :icon_lol:

[Blackmage]

I think there is a reason there wasn't a huge outcry when scrolls got increased like they did :)

[emTr0]

I think there is a reason there wasn't a huge outcry when scrolls got increased like they did :)

Yup. Respawners = :plzdie:

[maynard]

actually a lot of people were and still are pissed off about it. I'm gonna push for them 2 be priced at 5k down the road so it's still an option, just not a very frequent 1... as 7k is well... making the item pretty much not useable.

[Chikun]

actually a lot of people were and still are pissed off about it. I'm gonna push for them 2 be priced at 5k down the road so it's still an option, just not a very frequent 1... as 7k is well... making the item pretty much not useable.

It's perfectly usable at 7k. It's bad enough when you need to kill a spidey/fagabond multiple times because of blood mages (which aren't number restricted, why? Neither are Spidey.) but making the option to buy back at only 5k when all they buy is a pro-90 ( :rolleyes: ) clears the server faster than a server crash. I'm sure the only people mad at that were the race whores anyway.

I think it was about a couple weeks ago there were about 10 spidermen at once on the server.

I'd be ok with some form of accepting a res or just ressing at spawn.

[maynard]

lol 7k is hardly useable. it's become a non used item due 2 the price being 2 high... don't involve your personal fears into the equation... not every 1 has a hard time with vega's or spidey's... and if there is any 1 specific race.. or even multiple ones that we don't want being able 2 use it... we can easily restrict those classes from using it... doesn't mean the item it's self needs 2 be shut out over people's QQ's

the goal is 2 regain WCS 2 it's former glory... and scroll of respawn had always played a roll in that. 5k is a fair price.

[ShadedFlash]

Only problem I see with some of your changes (invun, super speed) is it turns it from a free kill on them to a free kill by them. As with respawns right now, it won't always happen, but it would happen.

I do like the "confirm respawn". Respawning in wards, respawning while falling to my death. It would also give more visibility that you're coming back. Even if it was "deny respawn" to punish those who are not paying attention after round so the lazy don't have to push buttons.

Moving the respawn area could cause other complications, such as respawn by teammate when all of them are dead, taking them away from the objective so they can't win. We'd get used to it though.

However, do we really need to make respawning more powerful? When it works, it's giving that team one more player. I've always looked at respawn killing as a way of dealing with that.

If you're not a stat whore, bind kill to a key, and when in a bad situation upon respawning, spam that key :P NO MORE FREE XP. *Ahem* Not that I do that when a BM respawns me in wards. No, NEVER.I don't want to make "respawning" more powerful... I just want the chance to defend myself when I pop back up and not hand out free kills/xp while taking a death for nothing, I'd rather simply not respawn at all in that case. So at the very least, I'd like the option to accept a respawn by pressing a button or allowing it to simply expire and stay dead.

The difference between the killer and the victim with respawning is the fact that the killer can regain cover or reposition themselves or run away...the victim cannot.

As for the respawn by teammate, isn't it kind of the point with a respawning race? To rez your teammates to fight along side you once more? If you're alone and you die, the round is over anyway unless you're a terrorist and the bomb is planted...in which case, on that very unique case, you could just respawn where you stood, or simply..too bad? I didn't even known respawning races could respawn themselves in the first place until recently.


On the Ahnk topic: If it's on round instead of respawn, do you mean whether or not you die, or are you asking for a more fully coded Ahnk? In any case, I do agree, losing it upon mid-round respawn is annoying, but with some races, such as panorama or genocide, if you DON'T have ahnk, you don't have a gun.

The bomb topic: You don't lose items upon bomb death, so you still have your Ahnk, lace ect. upon bomb explosion. So, no, it wouldn't give you items back. This is why races who spawn their guns have no reason NOT to stay with the bomb until death. They lose nothing. Getting people to UNDERSTAND this, however...With the anhk, I just want it to actually work where when I buy it, the weapons I died with the previous round will be returned to me the next round. I don't want it to expire on a respawn, because when you respawn, you get your weapons back anyway, so its pointless to have anhk go away for it.

As for the bomb explosion, while you do not lose the anhk you bought, you lose the weapons you bought the anhk for, kind of self defeating the purpose of buying the anhk.

My problem with this is mainly due to the fact that I prefer to use M4/dualies and its annoying when I lose them due to respawn or bomb explosion.

[maynard]

not sure what your going on about, talking about when you respawn, you're just basically a free kill... sounds like more of a personal problem 2 me... as I don't share that issue with you... nor do most veterans of the server or people who are good at it.

[ShadedFlash]

respawn races aren't meant to rambo shit. their strength lies in teamfights. the fact that if your team is working together, the opponents will need to stop focusing your dead body and change to your teammates, which is when the respawning becomes so powerful. if you're expecting to take a respawning race and just go into the midst of the enemies and feel your respawning should make you survive, you're an idiot.I never used respawn races to 'rambo shit'. As mentioned above, I didn't even know they could respawn themselves until recently. My problem comes from being involuntarily respawned by a teammate and immediately dieing before I even have the chance to run for cover or shoot back.

And even when I have teammates around to "occupy" the enemy during the respawn period (if there is even one, sometimes I respawn immediately), its not that hard for someone to simply switch back to me and quickly pop off a headshot, especially when you die right infront of them or out in the open with no cover anywhere nearby.

---------- Post added at 10:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------


not sure what your going on about, talking about when you respawn, you're just basically a free kill... sounds like more of a personal problem 2 me... as I don't share that issue with you... nor do most veterans of the server or people who are good at it.Most respawns I see or experience are simply a free kill unless the person that killed them is simply terrible or doesn't know about respawning. Quite often, people will get 3-4 kills in a row on the same person respawning 3-4 times in the same place and repeatedly dieing with no chance to do anything. And either way, why should respawning only benefit veterans/"good" players?

Dieing repeatedly with no chance to fight back especially if a new player doesn't understand what is happening, is a quick way to frustrate a player and cause them to leave. (like when someone repeatedly kills a new player with eye ra summon / vagabond / etc) ... give players a chance!

[maynard]

Most respawns I see or experience are simply a free kill

ive yet 2 notice this... and I have a hell of a lot more than 45 hours logged on the serve un like you.... majority of the time when people die on respawns is cause they take their hands off the keyboard/mouse. it's not hard 2 shoot back after you respawn... and any 1 who gets mad and leaves can leave... we're doing fine traffic wise and we're not even back up and running full force...

if you die when you respawn, that's your issue, not a server problem/flaw....


dieing repeatedly with no chance to fight back
Lol no chance 2 fight back? for real? I would suggest putting more into into the server and getting better at it before thinking we need 2 change things.

[Blackmage]

The way I see it, solutions that "stop it from being a free kill" are either making it more powerful, or giving people the option to respawn. But, some weapons, yes, you are mostly a sitting duck, which is why you want to be coming back moving, ducking, jumping or anything. The best option, if you're having these problems, is to be going with friendlies, so you aren't the sole target. If everyone gets mowed down, or aren't cause enough of a distraction, you are having player problems, not ability problems. When you're ramboing, it's your own fault that respawns are free kills.

The problems you mention, being respawned without realizing it, being so out of position that an enemy who is shooting your teammates is right next to you, or being in a position where the enemy was able to get into position AND be looking at you when you come back, are problems with inexperience or gaming ability, not problems with respawning. It will be easier for veterans of FPSs to use, but the only way to get better is to use it many times.

As for frustrating players, if they are going to be frustrated because they can't use a beneficial ability as such, they probably are going to be quite annoyed with EVERY RACE.

A clarification, my statement: "...such as respawn by teammate when all of them are dead..." was responding to "...Respawn player to the nearest teammate..." for self respawning abilities. This is because, being the last T to die when the bomb has been planted may be a unique case, but it's also fairly common.

You can buy an ankh after you're dead. Most respawns, you'll know if you need to buy it before the round ends. If you're buying it while alive, you're risking losing it upon a respawn or bomb explosion. There is a simple way to NOT lose it this way. Buy it after you're dead, and don't bother if you're near the bomb. The exceptions are killed post-objective and time wins, and Panorama. Otherwise, just buy it when you're dead, and all will be fine.

As for the scroll comments, I use the scroll a decent amount still. I'm far from the only one. Considering it's price, it used a good amount. While you won't get 7k that often it isn't that hard to pull off if you're careful with your spending and surviving every few rounds. It still is an important part of WCS, it's just not a game winner. As for a lot of people being pissed, it's been my experience that most people liked that it's a rare item rather than just another snowball item.

[maynard]

saying it will be a snowball item if it's 5k is bs... just as saying most people like it at 7k lol... people bitch 2 me about everything, especially when it comes down 2 WCS...

people only beef with that item is when spidey vega and a couple others use it... which really just comes down 2 their skill lvl and nothing more...

it's not that people don't want respawning.. it's just they don't want the classes they find harder 2 kill doing it... which shows that the issues lies within peoples skill lvl... not the actual item it's self...

I don't care about limiting the item on certain races cause people QQ a lot... but 7k for respawn is over priced.

[Blackmage]

Wasn't saying it would be at 5k, it WAS, however, at 3k. I can't comment on 5k, as I've never seen it there, but as I said before, it's still a healthy item at 7k. As for restricting it, the only race I'd want that for is Eva. Any other race that could warrant restriction, I'd say restrict the necklace first, as that's more likely to be causing problems.

The main beef people had with it, was that it was under priced, which it was. The fact that the whores were the ones who used it the most was not helping, no, but the whores themselves were not the problem.

"it's not that people don't want respawning.. it's just they don't want the classes they find harder 2 kill doing it... "

It's that, without certain restrictions, respawning can tip the balance in favour of one side or the other with little to no skill involved. Enough bullets will slay the dragon, no matter how good he is.

Edit: But, I think scroll discussion could use it's own thread.

[Chikun]

It's obnoxious when classes that can get to the other side of the map in under 15 seconds keep respawning and don't stay dead.

This has nothing to do with skill because spiderman takes no skill.

[emTr0]

It's obnoxious when classes that can get to the other side of the map in under 15 seconds keep respawning and don't stay dead.

This has nothing to do with skill because spiderman takes no skill.

:werd:

[Rebirth]

spidey is stupid because they can be in your spawn in like 10 seconds on some maps. and they have evasion. and speed. and need no gun other than a p90 ever. You can do 500+ damage to a spidey and not kill them if they dodge proc 3-4 times, which isnt ridiculous with 50% dodge.


vaga is just obnoxious to me because you can abuse some maps REALLY badly with it.

[maynard]

maybe your team should work together and try and kill the 1 spidey then... given he's there in 10 seconds... the majority of your team should still be close by. between knowing how 2 aim, and shop items... they are not hard 2 kill... you can even go a step further and change 2 a class that pwwns them.

[emTr0]

maybe your team should work together and try and kill the 1 spidey then... given he's there in 10 seconds... the majority of your team should still be close by. between knowing how 2 aim, and shop items... they are not hard 2 kill... you can even go a step further and change 2 a class that pwwns them.

Also, a few wards would definitely slow him down long enough to pop a few well-aimed shots. Still though, I greatly dislike Spiderman.

[Sin]

Most people that play that class have a terrible shot and extremely terrible game-sense anyway.

EZMUNNY

[Rebirth]

what happens when multiple spideys who actually know how to shoot jump into your base from 2 directions and proc 2-3 dodges each...

i dunno, its the only race that feels stupid in my opinion

[ChosenofChaos]

My one and only complaint with spiderman is its speed I don't mind if it has the same evasion as Night Elf but it's speed is what frustrates players the most. I for one usually counter them with classes like Human and Night elf. Having a Lace definitely helps though so they don't spam webline which should have a round starting cooldown of like 15 secs or whatever. Similar to like when the vagabond is respawned can't tele for like 5-10 secs until countdown is done. All in All I see absolutely no issue with respawning. All I see is an issue with being freekilled and a certain hint of recklessness probably if you think respawning is gonna help you even the odds when your all alone. Respawning is a support based ability which requires teamwork not running and gunning like Rambo. If you wanna do that as warden though by all means go ahead unless somebody has a lace nearby you'll get your respawn(vengeance). As with the issue with scrolls keep them at 7 k its fine there and the people who complain are either race whores or like being cannon fodder.