order in the court

[CrazyHorse]

Ok, I just finished reading the squirrelly admin abuse thread, and he is right in a way. It happens a lot, on all the ibis servers. With so many admins, if someone does something wrong and someone in game complains, generally the admins don't do anything. They can't see everything, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. If someone is wrongly accused, there is no reason why the initial complainer can't be punished afterwards.

More so on the zombie server this happens. A lot of cade breaking, and a lot of admins on, but they just say, "Well, I didn't see it, so I can't do anything." Oh but if it happens to them, they get so pissed and are extremely quick to ban. So there is no excuse when saying they are busy with another, because they all punish quickly.

Part of the problem is, when something happens to a non admin player, and no punishment is dealt out, the admins don't even keep an eye on the offending player. So if admins want respect, then maybe they should start handling things even when it doesn't directly affect them. Regular players don't like being tk'd and have their cades broken any more than they do. So instead of muting players complaining about someone doing something wrong and not being punished for it, PUNISH those players and let them make a thread on the forum. It is a lot easier than handing out punishments to players just because the admins are lazy and don't actually do what they should be doing.

Admins are supposed to be there for the servers, not just for themselves. Police the servers and let the wrong doers complain on the forum. People will stop being dumbasses faster if they know they will be getting punished from doing something to a regular player.

[Penis シ]

You said it yourself; "Admins cannot see everything".

As far as team attacking goes, if I'm on CT and a team attacker is on T, I can't see that he's team attacking, I can only see when he kills somebody. You DO still have an option to be retroactive, though.

http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/74-User-Temp-Ban-Requests

On that forum, you can report people for being douchenozzles after the fact. All you have to do is follow format and provide proof.

http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/6434-Links-to-Demos

And there's all the proof you need for the last month.

Enjoy!

[Disflux]

You said it yourself; "Admins cannot see everything".

As far as team attacking goes, if I'm on CT and a team attacker is on T, I can't see that he's team attacking, I can only see when he kills somebody. You DO still have an option to be retroactive, though.

http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/74-User-Temp-Ban-Requests

On that forum, you can report people for being douchenozzles after the fact. All you have to do is follow format and provide proof.

http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/6434-Links-to-Demos

And there's all the proof you need for the last month.

Enjoy!

+1

Honestly, if admins were to deal with every single little gripe that goes on in a server while they're playing, they WOULDN'T EVER GET TO PLAY THEMSELVES. And of COURSE they're going to punish those who do things to them, because they witness it first hand. You have to understand that the admins are paying to support the server so that you can play, and in return, they should be able to have a little fun themselves, amirite?

[Blackmage]

Admin's methods and ideologies differ. Some will ban at as soon as they can, some choose to go a different route. Some admins are newer, some just don't know or understand the rules, which IS a problem. Also, just because you don't SEE us doing something doesn't mean we AREN'T. As Penis said, there is access to all the demos. Some times we need to make sure of something before we take action. Sometimes we're watching someone else, and can't be watching two people at once. We have to act on limited information, and if we start banning for wrongful claims, we'll have more complaints than we currently do. Yes, we could then punish the complainer, but that would lead to MORE complaints. Admins have to go through enough without having to do double takes on everything they do

We also have to differentiate between purposeful and accidental. I've killed 4 or more people on the same map in GG(not counting RTV rounds), teammates and I have traded blows for 5 or 6 rounds. I play windowed, so when I click back in, if I do it with left mouse click, I fire a shot, which sometimes hits teammates in spawn. These happens, we have a team attack menu to deal with it. Some rules are also interpreted differently, such as camping rules.

I can't comment on ZM or Pub, I don't play those often. However, in GG and WCS, admins DO generally punish people without regard to whether they are doing things to Admin or Regular User.

[CrazyHorse]

The camping rule, since you brought it up, cannot be interpreted how ever an admin wants. Maynard has said multiple times, ONLY if the person is holding up the round, otherwise they can camp all they want where ever they want.

Accidents happen, but when someone complains that their teammate is shooting them on purpose and the admins ignore that complaint instead of doing something as simple as a kick after a verbal warning, and even a warning rarely happen unless they witness it, then why be an admin? I find that when people retaliate, they are the ones that get in trouble, which could have been avoided if an admin stepped in right away.

Admins pay for their responsibility to the server, hopefully no one is forced to do so, and if admins would rather play than deal with things, you can just donate, you don't actually have to be an admin.

When something happens and there is no admin on, that is a good time to be making a complaint on the forum about a player. But when ever there is an admin on, they are supposed to be there to handle these things. What is the point then in being an admin, only to tell people to make complaints on the forum all the while it can be dealt with in game. It is also not worth anyone's time to make a complaint on the forum about someone breaking their cade on purpose.

[Pl@YwithM3]

alright, im actually really glad this subject was brought up. in regards to the zombie mod server, i Pl@Y there a great deal of time and id like to think i know the rules of it very well. admins CANNOT watch every little thing happening in the server and of course they will punish a person who cade breaks in front of them (HOPEFULLY AFTER ISSUING A WARNING FIRST) as for those who make complaints an cry out "xxxx JUST BROKE MY CADE BAN HIS ASS NOW" - the PROPER thing to do would be to issue a warning to the person being accused and if that person ignores the warning and repeats their offence, THEN you punish them. if they claim "WTF IDIOT ADMIN IM NOT DOIN ANYTHING WRONG" then you should ask them why people are complaining about them. if they say "NO IM NOT THEYRE LYING" then the best thing to do in this scenario (in my opinion) is to just spectate the Pl@Yer to see first hand whats really going on and then take it from there to see if any further punishments are needed.

i know this isnt exactly the most appropriote place to say it, but from what ive seen, majority of the admins on zm are absolute SHIT and either dont know/care what theyre doing, have no knowlege of the rules, and/or are just using their admin and doing things as they please and punishing Pl@Yers when they feel like it, slaying, kicking ppl without any warning. and quite frankly its pissing me off (as well is the regulars im sure) we pay for admin so yeah we have these privileges, BUT THEYRE PRIVILEGES WITH A PURPOSE! if you go and buy admin than BE the admin you are supposed to be. otherwise save us (mainly the clan members) the hastle an just gtfo of ibis please, thankyou, bye bye now

[maynard]

This Thread Is Clean

4625

[Rosie]

Minus the Michelle quote I had a good point in my thread.

[Pl@YwithM3]

yeah, on what you said before rosie, its just a matter of how admins are handling the problem Pl@Yers that needs a little work. admins are aware of it of course but not all are resolving them properly. so i totally agree with what you said about educating those who are tk'ing, cadebreaking ect. about just not doing those things instead of laying on the punishments right off teh bat. that way theyll be a LOT less likely to rage and continue their offense. as for the people who do those things for trolls and lol's... thats a different story :banghead:

[acolyte_to_jippity]

This Thread Is Clean

4625

this is why i feel so unloved maymay. i have an epic moment, but then NOPE! maynard.


Minus the Michelle quote I had a good point in my thread.

i don't remember your point, but yeah.


@op person, to sum up what i said before the mass cleaning, basically, admins are only human. we can't see everything all the time. the reason we take action when someone breaks our cade, is because we see them do it. however we're not allowed to take action if we don't actually wittness anything. your position is that admins should be restricted from ever actually playing, and only sitting there at the beck and call of asstards like yourself. well i got some news for you: fuck off. there is nothing stopping you from contributing to the servers and getting admin to help us out. if you want to get admin and sit there not playing just punishing people, be my fucking guest.

[Hitman]

This thread is full of win btw......

And +1 To Michelle.....So right in many ways.

[Sinsanity]

I'm actually one of the admins that mostly stay in spectate and babysit. But even while in spectate I still can't see everything fast enough, since the names are in a unknown random order I can't get to soand so's persons screen right away I got locate them with a series of clicks, but shit goes down way too fast, so ill issue a verbal warning and monitor that player.

I also find myself correcting the actions of some admins several times and even regulars on the zm servers. Somethings ill let slide like an admin slapping himself slightly about 3the times, As long as he's not trying to get an unfair advantage. As for newer admins, I was once a new admin as well, so I know how it feels still learning. I always ask questions and I'm constantly reading the forums and admin abuses to learn from mistakes. Point is, garbage admins are garbage but don't think there aren't admins out there that care about your game experience in-game. I'm not on alot as much as I want to with work, school, and the missus, still add me on steam and send me a message if there aren't any admins on. Ill try to make time if I have to study and stay in spectate at the same time.

Sorry for the text wall

[CrazyHorse]

@op person, to sum up what i said before the mass cleaning, basically, admins are only human. we can't see everything all the time. the reason we take action when someone breaks our cade, is because we see them do it. however we're not allowed to take action if we don't actually wittness anything. your position is that admins should be restricted from ever actually playing, and only sitting there at the beck and call of asstards like yourself. well i got some news for you: fuck off. there is nothing stopping you from contributing to the servers and getting admin to help us out. if you want to get admin and sit there not playing just punishing people, be my fucking guest.

This is the attitude people get when they complain in game about someone in game if the admins even pay attention to the complaint. The solution is not MORE admins, since there is plenty already. The solution is to take complaints seriously. If you can't handle making the servers an enjoyable place for everyone to play, then what good are you. Don't just worry about what people do to you, your responsibility is to all that are on the servers. Don't like having to sit in spectate for a couple rounds to make sure everyone is behaving, too bad, no one is forcing you to be an admin.

-reviewed the rules and ToS, no where, unless I am blind, does it say the admin needs to witness the event. So, when you have regulars on, that don't break rules themselves and other trustworthy people, and they have something happen to them while an admin is on but not witness to the event, if they complain about it, do the same thing you would do if you witnessed it yourself. If the person accused thinks the punishment was not justified, they can make a complaint on the forum, like so many admins tell people to do about the problem players.

Punish people like you witnessed it, providing the complaint comes from a somewhat reliable source, and let the problem player make the thread. Don't make the person having their game ruined make the thread about another player.

[Steamer]

Punish people like you witnessed it, providing the complaint comes from a somewhat reliable source, and let the problem player make the thread. Don't make the person having their game ruined make the thread about another player.

Lots of problems come from punishing people on word, that is why it is rare you see admins doing so, even from word of regs. There is more to lose for the admin than the player that may or may not be doing something wrong.

[Joker]

Ok this is one spot I actually have to say something. No offense to any of you, but I have seen from first hand experience that zm server is full of admins and a good portion of them just don't know the rules and need to be educated. Now in regards to what crazyhorse is saying Admins can only see so much and can only do so much that is why we have sourceTV going on all servers. If an Admin doesn't see something they can easily go view the demo and make a decision from there if the complaint is a legit one. Now if an Admin is present, but isn't willing to do anything then grab the demo from sourceTV and then post it here http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/74-User-Temp-Ban-Requests
with the demo attached and is the proper format. If your not willing to spend, but 5 minutes to post a thread on the forums then it's not even worth an admin to even look at, it's as simple as that. Also, you seem to be just like any other fly by player that thinks they can do a better job at admining the servers then what the current admins are doing and if you honestly feel that way then buy admin and start doing a better job and be an example. Don't go complaining about EVERY little fucking thing. I mean seriously I have seen enough players that thought they would be GREAT admins, but when push cam to shove they just down right sucked at it and didn't know the rules and quickly got them selves into trouble. Also, a many number of problems have come from admins going off of a players/regs word as steamer said that is why almost no admins are willing to do so.

Now if you see an admin that doesn't know the rules then bring it up to either one of the clan members or upper level admins to at least bring it to the attention for them to keep an eye out for if the "said person" needs to be educated.

[CrazyHorse]

But as a player, I shouldn't have to spend the time making a thread about a player if there is an admin on. Obviously if there is no admin on, players have no choice, they either contact someone, or post the demo. But if there is an admin on, they should take charge of the situation. If they would rather play because the situation doesn't directly affect them, then what good are they. Admins knowing the rules is a different topic, and any complaint in game should be dealt with in game if admins are on, and the player shouldn't be directed to the forums to make a post about it.
Lazy admins don't help anyone.

[Chikun]

Welcome to bureaucracy. This way is better so that there is a tangible record of problem player's habits. A way for people to look back and say "Yes, this person broke the rules on the times specified by the complaints. So what should be the appropriate punishment for this multiple offender?"

[Rosie]

The rules that normally are cried about in ZM, are cadebreaking, and blocking. Using the unofficial rule that if I do not seee it I will not punish; if I do review the demo and see that said player broke a cade. Do you want me to slay him at that point? It is like training a dog. If you catch them doing something, punish them swiftly and let it go. If you punish at a later time they will not know what they did wrong. If a admin witnesses a rule being broken, and does nothing, then we have a problem. But you cannot punish on someones word. Admins are suppose to police the servers without prejudice. If you listen to one persons word, then you have to listen to everyone.

[Steamer]

It is like training a dog.

True shit!

[Penis シ]

@crazyhorse,

Listen, I'm in the GG server a LOT. I see you there and you're fun to play with, but honestly, if I don't see something happen, I can't do anything about it.

If someone tells me about something, I'll attempt to witness it, but it doesn't always happen again. But what you're saying about "what good are admins if players have to blah blah blah". Let me explain something to you.


ALL of our admins are regular players that stepped up to help our servers, hell, I played here a LONG time before I took that step. BUT if a player is not willing to stand up for themselves, how can you expect an admin to?

I scour demos of suspected hackers, offer input when available or necessary, and take action when I can, but if you can't take the time from YOUR day to say "hey, he was team killing me, watch him" or to make a brief thread about said player, how do you expect anyone else to do it for you? Do you expect your roommate to clean your room because it's part of the house and you pay enough rent as it is? Or do you step up and contribute to the house and community you stand in?

I did this because I was tired of not seeing enough done to preserve my community, and I expect every person that takes it as their own to do the same, complaining that because someone else has stepped up and you haven't but they haven't stepped up enough is hypocritical.

TL;DR If someone isn't around, find someone, if you can't find someone, make the thread and don't whine about it. If someone is around, type in admin chat to them (team speak button: default is "u" then the @ symbol then your message) and if they don't take action, talk to another admin or post on our forums about them.