Design of NEW ZOMBIE CLASSES

[Chef C Green]

A couple admins and regulars have been discussing over the past month or so, the incorporation of one or more new zombie classes. Classes like predator, infected, deformed, and poison have all been huge benefits to balancing the game, and also giving players a reason to WANT to be zombie (cus lets face it, otherwise it's rather boring v.v).

Ideas that have come up include:

-Regenerating Zombie: Low health (2-3k), with speeds, knockback, jump similar to predator class. Increasing the jump aspect though to that of infected would be nice though. Reason: Regeneration would allow for going FULL OUT on a cade without worrying "Well I can sacrifice myself on this one, but won't be able to go for another cade". By allowing for fast Regen, we could give zombies another advantage for spots like crouch spots and tubes where having the health AND speed would prove beneficial. Deformed is generally too slow to reach these DEEP crouch spots (monitor on Miniature room and tunnel on Snoopie). This would encourage circulating zombies (ex: Lead a train, get down to low hp, ztele, and get back at the end of the line to keep pushing forward).

-Armor Zombie: Medium Health (5-6k), speed similar to infected, low jump, knockback similar to predator xp class. If there is a way (and I think there's something similar to this on WCS servers), decreasing the chance of a bullet impacting as if it were glancing off the zombies "armor". I think this would help again with crouch spots, but also in escape maps with having speed, but also the CHANCE of either being knocked back (fast zombie) or breaking through humans (deformed if it ever gets close enough). I don't know what increasing the armor on zombies does exactly but this may work too? But we're not looking for another deformed class, more of a "gambling" class that takes a chance.

-Power Zombie: Low Hp (2-3k), low knockback (slightly more than deformed), jump low, speed low. Think of a weightlifter on steroids that just got turned while doing his workout at the gym. This is the zombie for all those who feel they need a little more power to get the job done. Cades that are well constructed can be torn apart, but most require several proficient zombies that coordinate well to do so. This is not always the most effective as zombies A) can't get to the spot in sufficient time to break it, and B) not everyone is "proficient". Looking for increased pushing power to help flip bookshelves over (not alone, but with little help required). The low HP would balance this one out well, causing caders to be vigilant and on guard rather than fapping and laughing at the zombie clusterfucks.

These are just some things I thought were rather valid, and of course the jump, knockback etc. could be changed to whatever the higher-level admins think would work best. By putting in some new zombie classes though, we're encouraging more players to want to be zombie, as well as (hopefully) eliminating some of the unbalance that seems to be occurring (ex: CT's camping crouch spots with powerful paras that require little to no teamwork, balancing cades like those on little town that are just not breakable (lets be honest, you can't break them unless a CT messes up)).
-Chef

P.S. Please post some WELL THOUGHT ideas on other zombie classes that you feel would BENEFIT BALANCED PLAY.

[jaeeh]

I was thinking about a ranged zombie something similar to the smoker but with no or very very little damage,
I don't know if its feasible but something along those lines? - low hp (2k-3k), normal jump, decent knock back, maybe some sort of ranged damage that is limited in range or the ability to blind humans? I don't know just throwing a few ideas, but I did want to see a new zombie class coming up.
I do like the armor zombie idea and the power zombie - a zombie that could break cades now that would be a challenge to all the caders!
& agree with the fact that newer zombie classes will bring more to our server.

[T3h tyrant]

I was thinking about a ranged zombie something similar to the smoker but with no or very very little damage,
I don't know if its feasible but something along those lines? - low hp (2k-3k), normal jump, decent knock back, maybe some sort of ranged damage that is limited in range or the ability to blind humans? I don't know just throwing a few ideas, but I did want to see a new zombie class coming up.
I do like the armor zombie idea and the power zombie - a zombie that could break cades now that would be a challenge to all the caders!
& agree with the fact that newer zombie classes will bring more to our server.

what? long ranged attack? no lol that wouldn't work out at all i could see that being over power and also over used but thats just my opinion.. who knows maybe this idea could be the best zmod idea ever haha :wtg:

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

If we add a new zombie we should add a flying one!!!!!

I like the idea to add small abilities like the blind, as for ranged zombie, his ranged attack can't result in a human being tagged, rather maybe lob ground aoes that do a very small tick of damage?

[Rosie]

Of all of them, I think the power Zombie would be the most useful. Or any Zombie that could push instead of pull by itself would be good. It is very hard to get someone to stand in front of a cade so you can get on their head to push it over.

[Chef C Green]

maybe some sort of ranged damage that is limited in range or the ability to blind humans?

Agreeing with what Mikey said, the ranged damage would prove overpowering because unlike WCS servers, humans have a fixed amount of hp and if you can do any damage, humans will surely lose. Effects would be a great additive though IMO (blind as you mentioned specifically). Blinding one player for X duration is somewhat WCS-like, but could just be something like an Acid that blinds humans when it hits their eyes. Overall though, this would mean teamwork is MANDATORY to stay alive or you'll be running around your own cade like a chicken with it's head cut off. In addition, this zombie should not be able to push / pull well (if it were, we'd have a mass of "blinding" zombies that could effectively do everything themselves). We want to encourage teamwork, so making this particular type of zombie would require some strict balancing given it's blinding advantage (potentially).

Also, the flying zombie was something that came up in discussion, but how would we really work this out physics wise...? Can't give them no-clip, and turning gravity very low for them would be similar to poison zombie? Would be happy to hear some added suggestions to this idea though if anyone can work out some of these quirks!

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Agreeing with what Mikey said, the ranged damage would prove overpowering because unlike WCS servers, humans have a fixed amount of hp and if you can do any damage, humans will surely lose. Effects would be a great additive though IMO (blind as you mentioned specifically). Blinding one player for X duration is somewhat WCS-like, but could just be something like an Acid that blinds humans when it hits their eyes. Overall though, this would mean teamwork is MANDATORY to stay alive or you'll be running around your own cade like a chicken with it's head cut off. In addition, this zombie should not be able to push / pull well (if it were, we'd have a mass of "blinding" zombies that could effectively do everything themselves). We want to encourage teamwork, so making this particular type of zombie would require some strict balancing given it's blinding advantage (potentially).

Also, the flying zombie was something that came up in discussion, but how would we really work this out physics wise...? Can't give them no-clip, and turning gravity very low for them would be similar to poison zombie? Would be happy to hear some added suggestions to this idea though if anyone can work out some of these quirks!

the ranged...well...i could see it. as long as certain considerations were met. namely, they had only 500 hp, and did not respawn.

flying, fuck no.

'power'? no. not worth it, offer no real benefits.

honestly, there's no real niche that is unfilled in zm. the classes we have are fine.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

What about the acolyte zombie, 1 hp, slow speed, huge knock back, and dangles in mid air like a pinyata

---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

Better yet, what about a kamikaze zombie that blows him self up! Or even better better yet, when you are tagged with a readied made in your hand you hold it as a zombie creating the kamikaze zombie, this way you don't need to be that specific zombie threw the race menu.

[Chef C Green]

honestly, there's no real niche that is unfilled in zm. the classes we have are fine.

While I do think the zombie classes at the moment do cover the typical cades (and granted most maps are rather balanced), I still think there are still certain spots that are not REASONABLY winnable for zombies. Examples include: Cading the front room in zm_citylife_v2, Crouch spot under monitor on zm_miniature_room, Crouch tunnel on zm_snoopie, reaching humans before map is nuked on ze_paradise, etc. The point I'm trying to make is there are maps or parts of maps that are not balanced, so no I don't think every "niche" has been filled in that respect. There is always an area to improve upon, and I feel we should at least postulate some ideas for bettering the server further to make it more challenging for humans. As most of the regulars know, if you evade cadebreakers, noobs, and get a cade you know is good fashioned before zombies spawn; realistically we don't worry about it breaking, we worry about getting the kills in time... I'm tired of KNOWING I'll survive in those instances, I want a challenge...

EDIT: Oh and add the cade with the bookshelf, two vendys, and 3 couches on Zm_Desperadoz (a prime example of where this cade isn't going ANYWHERE when constructed...)

[anex]

How about a zombie that gets additional health for every human it tags. You could add that with the steroids zombie making it a formidable train zombie if said player plays the class right.

[Meltdown]

Or make a zombie like in the gun game mod that lv up so it gets better and better and after each kill it regains full hp.

[BladeTwinSwords]

Actually all zombies DO get health for killing humans. I think its like 40 HP

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Actually all zombies DO get health for killing humans. I think its like 40 HP is that to simulate brain nomming?

[B1ackOut]

Blind zombies would be nice but we would have to limit the number as 20 noobs going "cool i can fling shit into human eyes" would get very, very annoying. Smoker-like zombie perhaps but only with a 5 foot range to pull noobs in? Can we do that without glitching props?

Or to challenge yourself, either a completely shit zombie, or a chameleon-like zombie with different stats at each round start.

[T3h tyrant]

Blind zombies would be nice but we would have to limit the number as 20 noobs going "cool i can fling shit into human eyes" would get very, very annoying. Smoker-like zombie perhaps but only with a 5 foot range to pull noobs in? Can we do that without glitching props?

Or to challenge yourself, either a completely shit zombie, or a chameleon-like zombie with different stats at each round start.

a chameleon like zombie would fix maps like little town with over powered spots and would cause problems when cading with people because they may get close enough to get pulled in then end up killing you and your cademates and people would just cry and complain.

[Pl@YwithM3]

to be honest this entire concept seems kinda sketchy to me.. i mean dont get me wrong, im ALL FOR bringing new ideas an twists to the game. im just not sure that ppl (as humans) would be all that fond of their chances of survival being litterally cut in half. the ENTIRE community would have to rethink their strategies for cading / hiding ect. but like you said, it DOES give a nice new spark for zombies and people actually wanting to be them. this power zombie tho.. if all it took was just one of these to effortlessly busy through a cade then whats really the point in making a cade at all? u might as well just stand there in the open. flying zombie forget it, i mean unless you gave it some serious knockback, like.. the knockback of taking a faceshot from a AWP, from any gun, then hell no. interesting.. but bleh.. the other classes mentioned are kinda cool.

i like the idea honestly, however im thinking that with this many zombie classes that we should pick and chose which classes can be used in particular maps. like how we have restricted weapons. u can see all of the zombie class there, but some are faded and cant be selected. so my suggestion is that we restrict certain zombies on certain maps. because lets face it; some of these new zombies (and even original ones too) would be completely OP in certain maps an make it reallly not so fun at all.

ill add to ur list tho cuz im overly imaginative an have wierd creativity:

how about zombie with nightvision and or infrared sight? (dont say its unrealistic cuz neither is a bullitproof or flying zombie) id say give it -knockback, normal speed, +health, normal jump. can use it for those night based maps or maps with dark rooms unlit buildings or w.e
this one i like, lets make a zombie that can be reborn after its killed. give it VERY low health, like 1k (much easier to kill seeing as how it can be reborn anyways) normal maybe more than average knockback, +speed, normal jump. callit a kamikazi zombie.. or suicide zombie XD i really think itd be neat.
a "spy" zombie maybe? a zombie that has the skin of a randomly selected CT or T. their name would still appear in red when you look at them (like a zombie) and it would appear on the list of zombie names on tab. give them normal speed, normal jump, +knockback and maybe... say... 100 health? really cool twist imo.
o how about a zombie that doesnt fcking moan involuntary?!?! u have NO idea how obnoxious it is when ur trying to sneak up on an unsuspected ct an ur element of surprise is ruind by a freakin zombie orgasm moan.

ill think of moar later, im kinda bored now tbh

wall-o-text ftw!

[Bane of Soldiers]

I have doubts especially in regards to a ranged zombie. We need more teamwork and all, but I don't think anyone will be willing to "take one for the team" and play a class that appears to be unable to tag humans? :huh: We need to retain some kind of individualism and self sufficiency for such a class imo

[Srry72]

It would be cool if we could have a "Tank" zombie around the last 30 seconds of a round. Like in L4d2, where the computer chooses a human to be the Tank and its pretty much a bitch to kill (unless the person is a noob)

[jaeeh]

If we add a new zombie we should add a flying one!!!!!

I like the idea to add small abilities like the blind, as for ranged zombie, his ranged attack can't result in a human being tagged, rather maybe lob ground aoes that do a very small tick of damage?

I wasn't thinking that the ranged zombie idea should do any damage like at all but as i mentioned an ability like blind or have a grenade that can "push" people around and do no damage whatsoever. And as for the Tank Zombie I think deformed already covers that pretty well :| just that people don't seem to use it as often as some. But yeah I think power zombie should still be in the top for consideration :D
-- And I do like the spy zombie concept - maybe it has the least hp possible like 200-100? and if he/she tags a human the human becomes the new spy zombie and the previous spy zombie becomes a human again? I don't know haha still throwing ideas at you guys!

[Bane of Soldiers]

Meh.... should zombie mod even resemble left 4 dead? >_> If I wanted tanks and smokers in my game, I would go play l4d, not zm. The teamwork comes much more easily in l4d anyways :lmao:

I like the status quo we have now, but there are definitely some ideas in here that are more preferable than others. Particularly, the ones that don't require much additional modding. WCS already crashes a shit load; don't really need a second server crashing as frequently. Up to ~40 players with flashy classes and light effects from classed abilities sounds like it'll be even messier than the smoke grenade idea: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/7206-Smoke-Grenades :headache:

Soooo at the end of it, I'd support any class that has a stat set that isn't already implemented, and that can fill a new niche in the food chain. Zombies that are statistically hybrids of preexisting zombies would be rather bland, and imo, special abilities/skills are a no-no (skills/abilities as in those similar to wcs or those that drastically affect other players, like pushing and pulling. Pred and poisons would not fall under this as those are just modified skins and jump stats.) :twocents:

Edit: Spy class? Are we playing team fortress as well? :/ It sounds like it'll be insanely underpowered, as a simple "spy check" will land a human an insanely easy kill. No one's really in any particular danger of running out of ammo, and there's always random spraying going on. Hell, I bet we'll be getting tons of knife kills if we can sneak up on one. I accuse Pl@y of having an ulterior motive and deliberately nominating a low health class so she can get easy one shot kills with her shotgun :p

[Chef C Green]

to be honest this entire concept seems kinda sketchy to me.. i mean dont get me wrong, im ALL FOR bringing new ideas an twists to the game. im just not sure that ppl (as humans) would be all that fond of their chances of survival being litterally cut in half. the ENTIRE community would have to rethink their strategies for cading / hiding ect. but like you said, it DOES give a nice new spark for zombies and people actually wanting to be them. this power zombie tho.. if all it took was just one of these to effortlessly busy through a cade then whats really the point in making a cade at all? u might as well just stand there in the open. flying zombie forget it, i mean unless you gave it some serious knockback, like.. the knockback of taking a faceshot from a AWP, from any gun, then hell no. interesting.. but bleh.. the other classes mentioned are kinda cool.

i like the idea honestly, however im thinking that with this many zombie classes that we should pick and chose which classes can be used in particular maps. like how we have restricted weapons. u can see all of the zombie class there, but some are faded and cant be selected. so my suggestion is that we restrict certain zombies on certain maps. because lets face it; some of these new zombies (and even original ones too) would be completely OP in certain maps an make it reallly not so fun at all.

ill add to ur list tho cuz im overly imaginative an have wierd creativity:

how about zombie with nightvision and or infrared sight? (dont say its unrealistic cuz neither is a bullitproof or flying zombie) id say give it -knockback, normal speed, +health, normal jump. can use it for those night based maps or maps with dark rooms unlit buildings or w.e
this one i like, lets make a zombie that can be reborn after its killed. give it VERY low health, like 1k (much easier to kill seeing as how it can be reborn anyways) normal maybe more than average knockback, +speed, normal jump. callit a kamikazi zombie.. or suicide zombie XD i really think itd be neat.
a "spy" zombie maybe? a zombie that has the skin of a randomly selected CT or T. their name would still appear in red when you look at them (like a zombie) and it would appear on the list of zombie names on tab. give them normal speed, normal jump, +knockback and maybe... say... 100 health? really cool twist imo.

trying to sneak up on an unsuspected ct an ur element of surprise is ruind by a freakin zombie orgasm moan.


Firstly, I agree that some of these zombies would certainly require some balancing with hp and knockback when given super abilities like blinding or flying, but finding something that makes those spots listen more winnable for zombies should be done (they're bordering on illegal in the sense that no zombie or group of zombies can get humans in spots listed above unless you encourage noobs being retarded, getting close, and then tagging everyone else in the cade).

For the zombies you mentioned, there are a couple dark maps that would really prove helpful with nightvision, but do we need a whole zombie class for this when we still have flashlight on these maps? Also, the reborn zombie sounds like it needs something more added (make it more appealing), otherwise why choose that when another zombie class could give you better mobility/ hp/ etc. without needing to die twice or more in a round (something that looks bad come the scoring). Lastly the spy zombie sounds really interesting, and though the significantly low hp of 100 may detour me (all humans have to do is spray a few clips in their colleagues when zombies spawn to deal with any z's), it could be useful when players aren't paying attention to their surroundings.

btw, lawl @ zombie orgasm moan xD


It would be cool if we could have a "Tank" zombie around the last 30 seconds of a round. Like in L4d2, where the computer chooses a human to be the Tank and its pretty much a bitch to kill (unless the person is a noob)

I don't know exactly what L4d2 has... but isn't this like when you spawn with deformed being the first zombie (gives you 11-13k hp, pretty "tank-like" in my eyes?).

On a separate note: What if we also included a ranking system for unlocking these zombies? So we have the initial zombie classes we have now, but ones like power, range, cameleon, spy, etc., what if we said you must have X kills with zombies A, B, C to unlock? This would be an interesting challenge for players to not only become proficient in one zombie, but deal with all class challenges before you move up to something. I like the idea of a level system but what do ya'll think?

[Steamer]

Stop trying ot turn ZM into a WCS ZM. -_-

The server is unstable enough, no need to shit it up with unneeded crap.

[Rosie]

Stop trying ot turn ZM into a WCS ZM. -_-

The server is unstable enough, no need to shit it up with unneeded crap.

I just read through 3 pages of text to find a ray of sunshine at the end. Thank you!

[TheFallen927]

Stop trying to turn ZM into a WCS ZM. -_-

The server is unstable enough, no need to shit it up with unneeded crap.

I agree with this post.

[Chef C Green]

Stop trying ot turn ZM into a WCS ZM. -_-

This was never what I wanted to go for when I posted the thread :icon_sad:. Was hoping to just get some new variety in the classes as they seemed a bit standardized now (and there are in fact spots that are OP). Still, if this seems to be the general feeling towards the idea, I'll drop the matter.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Stop trying ot turn ZM into a WCS ZM. -_-

The server is unstable enough, no need to shit it up with unneeded crap.
5084 :3 :3 :3

[Pit_Viper1]

The only thing that I would even remotely consider "needed" is a suicide zombie. Make it have extremely low health ( 50-100 ) and have it explode upon suicide doing knockback to any nearby props equal to a grenade. This would help with some of the impossible spots and would not be OP since 1-2 shots would kill the zombie.

[Meltdown]

I was looking for zombie skins and came across this, if there going to be zombie fixes or new zombies might be worth to look at these skins.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-riot/downloads/zombie-skin-pack-2

[T3h tyrant]

just leave zm alone lol i think its fine the way it is