Limiting Vagabond

[Chef C Green]

Yes yes, everyone who plays the server knows that noobs whine about Vagabond but all you need to do is buy a lace and use flashlight. Well I hate to break it to you, but that doesn't necessarily make it any easier... Most times they have a scout and simply vanish up into the sky to snipe ya down, or come at you from behind to knife ya (you can't keep an eye on all angles with a limited peripheral flashlight). By far the worst drawback though is the combination of Necklace, which inhibits the effects of ultimates. This means, no entangling roots, medusas eye, summoning, etc. You may say "Then use wards", well they can't be used on several maps OR near terrorist hostages / bomb sites or it's illegal (making wards a very limited use). To sum it all up, this race has very few LEGAL weaknesses to it provided they use proper tomes (which anyone AT that level would).

In my opinion, Necklaces should be restricted for this class. If not that (because it may in fact be a little TOO easy at that point), then what about incorporating a necklace tome break, or a race that can use it's ultimate even with someone wearing a necklace? I realize I am a bit bias as I'm still only 120's in total level, but when you have a class with SIGNIFICANTLY higher kills/ KDR's, OBVIOUSLY there is a balancing problem with that race... You can try and say it's because the player is simply more proficient, but honestly anyone who unlocks the race can fiddle with it and become a dauntingly OP force (especially during off hours when no one can compete with a more competent race to fight it...)
-Chef

[Chef C Green]

this will never happen, know how they explained themselves to me for that class? Hey VAGABOND as been here longer than you if your not happy get the fuck out haha what an idiotic answer i know right! i was thinking the same but then i tryed to argue and i got myself a perma ban. Now i got the 2 best options for you right now either you keep playing and dont mind that class even if its clearly bullshit whatever anyother fag will comment underthis or you can buy admin and voteban anyone that plays the class to get the message across . Cuz what i learned here is, they wont remove the class whatever you come up with so if you really dont like there mentality witch is near idiocity IMO buy admin and voteban the shiet out of fuckers wearing the IBIS TAG

First off, I am an admin... I just typically play on the ZMOD server and am currently expanding my horizons. Secondly, I never said ANYTHING about getting rid of it (the title of the thread is "LIMITING", but of course you probably didn't read any of it). Lastly, I would never go off banning IBIS members without a due cause, and I'm assuming something like this was why you got perma banned (bitching about a class doesn't typically get a perma ban).

I am perfectly in my right to discuss classes that I feel may be over powered. I have no problem with keeping it, I only ask that players look at the class and assess it fairly. I still plan to play on WCS regardless of the decision made, but making the WCS experience more enjoyable (fair) is what I would like to strive for. If, however, other players feel this class has been limited enough, then that's that.

Next time put up a constructive response rather than a rant without reading... :reddot:

[acolyte_to_jippity]

thank you for being civil about this, unlike the fucktard up there.

the fact is, vagabond is identical to how it was on the old server. it's a powerful race. however, nowhere does that make it OP. see, the old server never had this kind of problem. nobody complained about vaga, or even vagalion. it's not because of any differences server-wise, it was just the fact that the community didn't bitch as much. they actually worked at getting better, to try and overcome difficult situations. nerfing everythign that's moderately powerful is not the way to go. there will always be powerful races, and ones that you must try harder to do well at. in general, if you can't kill vagabonds, you should change to a race like human, athena, blood mage, night elf, or beast. all have extremely powerful anti-vaga abilities, as long as you can shoot moderately well.


and if you can't shoot moderately well, then why should we nerf something for you, when you should be trying to get better?

[Chef C Green]

Sounds reasonable. I see what you're saying with the abilities like trueshot, bash, etc. (abilities from classes noobs can access which is good), and I guess even when you don't have enough money to buy a necklace, you should have a reasonable chance of hitting them once and see blood when in close quarters. But when they're sniping from afar, you have nothing with you (sniper, high level classes like athena, etc), you're effectively screwed if caught in the opening (maps like cs_assault, de_dust2, etc). I respect that getting better is the only way to improve/combat vagas, and I've certainly made progress despite them, but when you've lost a couple rounds and have no money to save your soul, you're basically gonna get consistently screwed over by a proficient vaga, that seems to hold true.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Sounds reasonable. I see what you're saying with the abilities like trueshot, bash, etc. (abilities from classes noobs can access which is good), and I guess even when you don't have enough money to buy a necklace, you should have a reasonable chance of hitting them once and see blood when in close quarters. But when they're sniping from afar, you have nothing with you (sniper, high level classes like athena, etc), you're effectively screwed if caught in the opening (maps like cs_assault, de_dust2, etc). I respect that getting better is the only way to improve/combat vagas, and I've certainly made progress despite them, but when you've lost a couple rounds and have no money to save your soul, you're basically gonna get consistently screwed over by a proficient vaga, that seems to hold true.

well, about being caught in the open, take human. instead of running the interveneing space, teleport to safety. yes, vaga is a powerhouse long-range, if they're good with a scout. in general though, there is rarely a time when you absolutely must expose yourself to a long-range vaga.

[brett friggin favre]

best strategy i've found is to piss him off by hiding. he'll get cocky cuz he's a vaga and try to come get you. lure him in that way, and have a lace. if you're losing and can't afford a lace, go void or athena or something that could get you one for free. better than no chance. as far as long range goes, the best way to win is to creatively avoid him. vaga may be pretty op sometimes but they don't have the highest kdr so they're not crazy op.

[HypeRNT]

best strategy i've found is to piss him off by hiding. he'll get cocky cuz he's a vaga and try to come get you. lure him in that way, and have a lace. if you're losing and can't afford a lace, go void or athena or something that could get you one for free. better than no chance. as far as long range goes, the best way to win is to creatively avoid him. vaga may be pretty op sometimes but they don't have the highest kdr so they're not crazy op.

Agreed with everything pretty much besides the KDR part. The only reason it does not have the highest KDR is due to a pretty deep learning curve which takes some of the LOWER skilled players a much longer time to get the hang of the whole ult/no scope part. A player that has put some time in with vaga lvl 40+ can easly have top KDR in the server without having much trouble.

Ive also noticed that starting vaga on round 1 is awesome because you can get to peoples spwn while they are spwning on the first round and get few easy kills.

[Chikun]

best strategy i've found is to piss him off by hiding. he'll get cocky cuz he's a vaga and try to come get you. lure him in that way, and have a lace. if you're losing and can't afford a lace, go void or athena or something that could get you one for free. better than no chance. as far as long range goes, the best way to win is to creatively avoid him. vaga may be pretty op sometimes but they don't have the highest kdr so they're not crazy op.

This. Too many times I see people try to out-snipe a vaga at long distances. It ends badly for them 9 times out of 10. There's a reason vaga's do terrible on maps that have narrow hallways and small rooms like office.

[blackmail242]

Look all I can say is, it takes work to become good at any race, Vagabond especially. So all you have to do is try to get better :P But really most vagabonds fall into a pattern, try to learn it and then use it to your advantage.

[Sin]

Lol @ it taking work to be "good" with Faga. Race is mad easy, just like every other race in the mod. ATM, in this server, Vagabond is the "awp" of the mod. PEWPEW All day err'day son!

[HypeRNT]

Lol @ it taking work to be "good" with Faga. Race is mad easy, just like every other race in the mod. ATM, in this server, Vagabond is the "awp" of the mod. PEWPEW All day err'day son!

So you are telling me that vaga is as easy as playing any other race that does not require you to use a single shot weapon while trying to master the ult without early levitation which gets you killed if you look below lower half of your screen?
Good joke, Im not saying vaga takes skills of a pro css player to master, im just comparing it to some of the other races that are very simple and easy to vaga that requires you to have a higher lvl before you can start to really get into it, aswell as putting some time into this race because of the stealth/1shot factors/not killing yourself every time.