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LogaN
09-11-2012, 08:19 PM
Hey it's me again!

THIS IS JUST A SUGGETION, I'M NOT TRYING TO BOSS YOU!

Sorry about caps but this way i'm sure most of you will read it. :P

I did a search and found nothing about this.

So my suggetion is to balance the weapons.
Some of you may ask "wtf balancing the weapons?"
Yes.

Weapons aren't balanced if they were you wouldn't see people saying that their vaga crit never works or people saying that with raps it's better to left click than right click.

I'll show you an example:

If you shoot with a scout or right click with a knife during 10 seconds it should proc the same skill the same amount of times as you were shooting with a para, p90 or tmp.

If you balance the weapons it will make races like jack with an ak not as OP as most of you say and will make sence using the scout with him because the skills will proc more.

Some points that this can bring to the server.

-It will reward people with good aim and not the ones that just spray and prey.
-I will make races like raps better which i have seen people saying that's weak.
-You will be able to use weapons like scout, shotguns, etc more often.
-Magician in human form will be better because he only has a shotgun(As primary) and his first skill almost never procs.
-And in my opinion it will increase the competitivity.

I have seen this done before but don't know if it's hard or not to do.

Now your thoughts, don't just delete it because you don't like it. :P

Wolfenstinger
09-11-2012, 08:55 PM
So.... more weapon restrictions?? Is that what I'm reading??

Sorry, still hopelessly lost as I try to understand this. Or put it in a scenario for me, I find myself able to learn with scenarios (example Player A = Human, Player B = Raiden.)

LogaN
09-11-2012, 09:22 PM
So.... more weapon restrictions?? Is that what I'm reading??
No...


Sorry, still hopelessly lost as I try to understand this. Or put it in a scenario for me, I find myself able to learn with scenarios (example Player A = Human, Player B = Raiden.)

I gave you one in my example...

Player A shoots for 10 seconds with scout or right clicks with his knife.

Player B shoots with a para or with p90 also for 10 seconds.

Both are using the same race so the % proc change from their skills is the same.
In the end of the 10 seconds the skills should have proced the same times even tought their weapons fire rate are diferent.

This will make races like jack less "op" with ak but better with scout. The way it is now high fire rate > low fire rate.
With this change it will make the weapons more equal.

I hope you understand this time. :P

Wolfenstinger
09-11-2012, 09:27 PM
Sorry, a bit brain dead here. But Lets see if I get this then -

Race of Choice - Raiden.
Player A has a Pump Shotty
Player B has a TMP

If they both shoot at each other within the 10 seconds the same amount, you're saying that they both should have procd their lightning damage on each other the same amount of times, correct?

LogaN
09-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Sorry, a bit brain dead here. But Lets see if I get this then -

Race of Choice - Raiden.
Player A has a Pump Shotty
Player B has a TMP

If they both shoot at each other within the 10 seconds the same amount, you're saying that they both should have procd their lightning damage on each other the same amount of times, correct?

Yes!

The way it works now even tought tmp does alot less dmg it would be better because it procs alot more.

Wolfenstinger
09-11-2012, 09:31 PM
But... wouldn't this also mean that your theory is invalid if your not including the chance at headshots, accuracy of the gunman, and pure bullshit luck some people have?/

brett friggin favre
09-11-2012, 09:34 PM
ok i read this, and i've come to the unavoidable conclusion that i shit better ideas than you bring up.

LogaN
09-11-2012, 09:37 PM
But... wouldn't this also mean that your theory is invalid if your not including the chance at headshots, accuracy of the gunman, and pure bullshit luck some people have?/

It will reward players with more aim and know how to control the weapons recoil. Not the ones that just spray and get a proc in the last bullet...

What
09-11-2012, 09:37 PM
More importantly that would imply that the tmp is now shooting at the same rate as a pump shotgun. The percentage chance of a proc is per shot, and usually races that can easily oneshot kill someone, like a vagabond, have weapons restrictions. True a raiden or nebula can one shot if their ability procs, but in order for it to be a one shot it has to be a high powered weapon, like a pump, or a headshot already. Trying to "balance" them is not only not worth anyones time, but impractical and frankly, stupid.

Wolfenstinger
09-11-2012, 09:38 PM
Don't forget, the shotgun is shooting a shell which is a spray of bullets in a direction, rather than a single bullet.

Bane of Soldiers
09-11-2012, 09:42 PM
I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but if it's what I think it is, I would disagree with implementing this kind of idea.
Are you suggesting that fast firing weapon proc %s to be nerfed, or that the proc % of slow firing weapons be raised? Or both...?


The way I see it, shouldn't switching weapons be a tradeoff? Sacrifice range, damage dealt, costs, recoil, accuracy, firing rate, ammo size, convenience, preference, weapon weight, etc., all depending on what weapon you want to use? Whatever weapon you choose, it should be accounted that you are sacrificing something when you decide to use one weapon over another. This includes the firing rate; the possibility of that weapon to proc a certain skill, in my opinion, should be no different. This should also come into mind when you're selecting your race -- the weapon restrictions and proc percentages should all come into mind. WCS does like to keep strategy in mind.


I think I'm still missing what you're suggesting, but meh >_<? But correct me if I'm wrong o.O?

Blackmage
09-11-2012, 09:48 PM
Can you PM an example of a server where it was done? I want to see it in practice. Do you know of the numbers behind it for a server it worked well in?

As it stands, it looks like an alternate percentage idea. I can see it working in some instances, some where it will be worse than "by bullet", either by working too often, or being too random.

LogaN
09-11-2012, 09:51 PM
Can you PM an example of a server where it was done? I want to see it in practice. Do you know of the numbers behind it for a server it worked well in?

As it stands, it looks like an alternate percentage idea. I can see it working in some instances, some where it will be worse than "by bullet", either by working too often, or being too random.

Well the only server i know that had this no longer exists. The server was hosted by TeacherCreature and Koshy, if you use the wcs or war3source forums you but me able to contact them...

What
09-11-2012, 09:52 PM
[QUOTE=LogaN;144628]Thats the way it works in real life but not ingame. If it was the same thing ingame when you shoot at someone near you it would proc a skill almost always and it doesn't. You can check this easliy you just need to shoot at someone near you once, then when you die you'll see that it only counts 1 hit.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

actually no, in game a human or spider with a pump will get their bash off the vast majority of the time, hence some players being tools and flying around with spidy and a pump. The prco right is definitly higher with the pump.

brett friggin favre
09-11-2012, 09:53 PM
so let's make tmp = p90 = m4 = ak = aug = shotty

aaaaand take half the game away. fuckin genius. :banghead:

LogaN
09-11-2012, 09:58 PM
The way I see it, shouldn't switching weapons be a tradeoff? Sacrifice range, damage dealt, costs, accuracy, firing rate, ammo size, convenience, preference, weapon weight, etc., all depending on what weapon you want to use? Whatever weapon you choose, it should be accounted that you are sacrificing something when you decide to use one weapon over another. This includes the firing rate; the possibility of that weapon to proc a certain skill, in my opinion, should be no different. This should also come into mind when you're selecting your race -- the weapon restrictions and proc percentages should all come into mind. WCS does like to keep strategy in mind.

You should pick the weapon you like the one its better for the map or the situacion you are on. Not the one that gives you more procs.
The way it is even from afar a p90 can be better than a scout because it procs alot more so you will do more dmg.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------


so let's make tmp = p90 = m4 = ak = aug = shotty

aaaaand take half the game away. fuckin genius. :banghead:

Get a brain and read again. The way it is tmp its better than m4 or ak even from far away when it shouldn't.

What
09-11-2012, 09:59 PM
You should pick the weapon you like the one its better for the map or the situacion you are on. Not the one that gives you more procs.
The way it is even from afar a p90 can be better than a scout because it procs alot more so you will do more dmg.


Yeah, and if your anebula running down a hall thats great for you, but if a human with an m4 is at a distance, your toast. Its called, different weapons are better in different situations. Its freaken WCS, so in this cas the situations include what race you are.

Blackmage
09-11-2012, 10:02 PM
The way I see it, this would be very finicky, as well as somewhat counter intuitive. Do you have any idea how this would be coded? Or some math behind it? Is this a function of shots hit over the time it takes to hit? It also seems VERY abusable. Once he procs, vaga hides until such time that he can proc again. Or if you don't hit in X-1 time, you know your next hit WILL hit, so you change your target.

Can you clear up any of these concerns?

SCRIBBLE
09-11-2012, 10:02 PM
The weapons are balanced for competitive gameplay. This is a competitive server.

Strategy.

LogaN
09-11-2012, 10:04 PM
Yeah, and if your anebula running down a hall thats great for you, but if a human with an m4 is at a distance, your toast. Its called, different weapons are better in different situations. Its freaken WCS, so in this cas the situations include what race you are.

A player playing human with a tmp it's better than one with m4 because your target will be bashed more often if you know how to control the recoil well.

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------


The weapons are balanced for competitive gameplay. This is a competitive server.

Strategy.

In a normal server they are. The way the proc rate works here they arent.

What
09-11-2012, 10:10 PM
A player playing human with a tmp it's better than one with m4 because your target will be bashed more often if you know how to control the recoil well.

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------




Again, if your running in close quarters, sure it will bash, freezing the target allowing you to kill them, but this is VERY situational, I have never seen a human with a tmp running around a map like cbble and killing all in his wake, he would be toasted if he tried it.

brett friggin favre
09-11-2012, 10:20 PM
the tmp is not better than the m4 from long range in any circumstance. yes it has a slightly higher fire rate but more spread over that long distance. any shooting skill whatsoever will yield more procs with the m4 than the tmp. also, damaging skills are usually based on percentage, making the more powerful weapons.....more powerful. as they should be.

LogaN
09-11-2012, 10:33 PM
Since some of you still dont understand ill explain like you were 5yr.

Example for dummies:

skill: 100% proc chance + 15 extra dmg

tmp 5 secs shooting:

10 bullets(1dmg per bullet) = 10 procs

total dmg 160

m4 5 secs shooting:

7 bullets(2dmg per bullet) = 7 procs

total dmg 119


Since when tmp should do more dmg than a m4?

Bane of Soldiers
09-11-2012, 10:34 PM
You should pick the weapon you like the one its better for the map or the situacion you are on. Not the one that gives you more procs.
The way it is even from afar a p90 can be better than a scout because it procs alot more so you will do more dmg.
...Maybe I should mention that your team, the enemy team, and the map influences these preferences? Preference of using one weapon over another? It seems like you're agreeing with me...? It all depends on your weapon preferences: how you like your gun to work and how well you can make it work. Versatility brah.


With that said, what's wrong with the P90 proc'ing more? Versus using a scout, there are a lot of areas that the scout is theoretically better. But then you have to consider how these factors affect you as a player. Adaptability and versatility. If you can account for the P90's losses through race abilities, experience, and strategy, you would be able to stay strong in all ranges and most situations. Things like learning how to work with the gun's recoil to play long arm and get the speed boost from a race skill or through strafing/bhopping. The firing rate and proc percentage was already a strength of the P90 to begin with. At this point, we're talking about the skills of a player, not about an imbalance of weapons. And as natural selection works, this is why you see a lot of fast firing weapons. They work better to a player's situation.


As an afterthought, of course there are situations in which a scout might be superior to other weapons. Example: a human with a scout on de_dolls.

Blackmage
09-11-2012, 10:42 PM
You're not serious... You insult us then proceed to explain what 100% proc rate is? Now, I know you want to project onto other people, but it would be more useful to give an example that shows new information, not that 1+1=2.

LogaN
09-11-2012, 10:45 PM
You're not serious... You insult us then proceed to explain what 100% proc rate is? Now, I know you want to project onto other people, but it would be more useful to give an example that shows new information, not that 1+1=2.

Where did i insult anyone? If "dummies" is an insult there im sorry because in my country it isn't...

And i used 100%, 1 and 2 because it's easy to understand.... i don't know the exact number they do per bullet... But im sure the way it's working now they are doing more dmg in the same amount of time.

If this wasn't true people wouldn't say that it's better to left click than right click as rapscalion.

Blackmage
09-11-2012, 10:51 PM
When is calling someone 5 years old not an insult? Dummy, by itself, is not an insult. Dummy, when right after calling someone a child is suggesting they have the intelligence of a child.

1 and 2 was not the problem. 100% proc rate is. Everyone (should) know what a 100% proc rate is. If 100% proc rate for all weapons is what you were going for, you could have said so somewhere. In which case, you don't understand balance. If that is NOT, please give a useful example.

LogaN
09-11-2012, 10:57 PM
When is calling someone 5 years old not an insult?

... I don't consider that an insult thats like saying that someone smells bad or is fat they might dont like it but isn't an insult...



please give a useful example.

I did in my last post left clicking is better than right clicking.

Blackmage
09-11-2012, 11:16 PM
Telling someone they smell bad, or they are fat, when they ARE, is NOT an insult, correct. However, calling someone something they are NOT, such as calling someone fat who is not, or calling an adult a child, IS an insult. I'm not sure where you live that you think it isn't.

You didn't give a right click vs left click example. All you said is that it's some people's opinion one is better. Nothing on how it will work in your version.

brett friggin favre
09-11-2012, 11:17 PM
maybe i should explain for retards from other planets.

1. you missed the part where i said most of our damaging skills are percentage based. meaning the more damage the bullet does, the more damage the skill does.

2. you missed the part where i brought about the idea of accuracy, and spread, particularly over range.

you're assuming perfect accuracy and not taking into account percent damage. when you take those things into account, yes the tmp will outperform the m4 at very close range, but that's how it is really. the m4 will outperform the tmp when you take how the server actually works into account at mid/long range. and that's just a microcosm of the weapon balance as a whole. no changes need to be made, none will be made. the balance of weapons was taken into account when the races were created and optimized. also you're using arbitrary numbers for standard bullet damage which make no sense and actual numbers of base bullet damage would wipe out the difference in procs (also using arbitrary numbers) that you pointed out.

acolyte_to_jippity
09-11-2012, 11:27 PM
logan, no.

it's called, strategy. as an example, on the old (pre-OB update) server, our succubus hunter race worked slightly differently. it gave a random chance to get a head on-hit. not on-kill. so what smart people would do, is take a glock or FiveseveN and use that to rack up skulls easilly (less damage = more hits = more chance to proc)

what i'm trying to get at is that you need to pick either damage, or procs.


i commend you on starting this thread off a bit better than your last one, but there really isn't anything valid about what you bring up.

LogaN
09-11-2012, 11:31 PM
maybe i should explain for retards from other planets.

1. you missed the part where i said most of our damaging skills are percentage based. meaning the more damage the bullet does, the more damage the skill does.

2. you missed the part where i brought about the idea of accuracy, and spread, particularly over range.

you're assuming perfect accuracy and not taking into account percent damage. when you take those things into account, yes the tmp will outperform the m4 at very close range, but that's how it is really. the m4 will outperform the tmp when you take how the server actually works into account at mid/long range. and that's just a microcosm of the weapon balance as a whole. no changes need to be made, none will be made. the balance of weapons was taken into account when the races were created and optimized. also you're using arbitrary numbers for standard bullet damage which make no sense and actual numbers of base bullet damage would wipe out the difference in procs (also using arbitrary numbers) that you pointed out.

I'm taking into to account all skills not just dmg or i wouldn't use human's bash as an example.
I noticed the diference this did in the server i played. Alot of people used tmp/p90 alot in any race you could buy it, after the change they started to buy "normal" weapons like m4, ak, scout, shotguns etc...

---------- Post added at 11:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------


logan, no.

it's called, strategy. as an example, on the old (pre-OB update) server, our succubus hunter race worked slightly differently. it gave a random chance to get a head on-hit. not on-kill. so what smart people would do, is take a glock or FiveseveN and use that to rack up skulls easilly (less damage = more hits = more chance to proc)

what i'm trying to get at is that you need to pick either damage, or procs.


i commend you on starting this thread off a bit better than your last one, but there really isn't anything valid about what you bring up.

OMG!!!

That's what im saying, higher fire rate = more proc = tmp, p90, glock, fiveseven etc are stonger than they should.
It doesnt matter if they do less dmg they will do more because there will be more procs. The % in the skill description was the same after the change i dont know what formula they used i know they fixed it.

What
09-11-2012, 11:47 PM
These type of threads should be humorous but they just lower everyone's IQ by 10 points the more they try to comprehend the sheer foolishness of someone who claims to play here a lot, but apparently can't stand the way things are.

brett friggin favre
09-11-2012, 11:50 PM
another hole in your stupid argument, you complain that you're dead here without a lace, and you don't have the money to buy one...then complain that the cheaper weapons are too good. if we were to buff the more expensive weapons, that would mean less chances to buy lace. you're still asking for a complete overhaul of an already successful wcs server.

acolyte_to_jippity
09-11-2012, 11:53 PM
OMG!!!

That's what im saying, higher fire rate = more proc = tmp, p90, glock, fiveseven etc are stonger than they should.
It doesnt matter if they do less dmg they will do more because there will be more procs. The % in the skill description was the same after the change i dont know what formula they used i know they fixed it.

but what i'm saying is that such is the way of things. the weapon balance is fine in our wcs server.

LogaN
09-12-2012, 12:02 AM
but what i'm saying is that such is the way of things. the weapon balance is fine in our wcs server.

So you just gave me an example that a race had to be changed because the proc rate isnt working as it should then you say it's balance? If it was balanced the race didn't have to be changed. lol...

Bane of Soldiers
09-12-2012, 12:05 AM
it's called, strategy. as an example, on the old (pre-OB update) server, our succubus hunter race worked slightly differently. it gave a random chance to get a head on-hit. not on-kill. so what smart people would do, is take a glock or FiveseveN and use that to rack up skulls easilly (less damage = more hits = more chance to proc)

OMG!!!
That's what im saying, higher fire rate = more proc = tmp, p90, glock, fiveseven etc are stonger than they should.
It doesnt matter if they do less dmg they will do more because there will be more procs. The % in the skill description was the same after the change i dont know what formula they used i know they fixed it.

What are you trying to get at, Logan? Please explain why you think that these weapons are stronger than they should!!! What suggests that such an inferiority should exist? As far as I'm concerned, the weapons and proc rates are great as they are. The proc rate is just another facet that is, probability and statistically speaking, married to the firing rate of a weapon, and is yet another thing to consider when you choose your weapons! You're practically suggesting that if someone enters one ticket into a lottery, they should have an equal chance to win as the person who entered twelve times! When you're using slower shooting weapons, you're supposed to account and adjust for an inferiority that is inherent to the weapon: it's ability to let off hits in a set period of time. The need to adjust for this does not necessitate buffs in slow firing weapons or nerfs in fast firing weapons!

And Brett is spot on. Your calculations are bad, and you should feel bad.

Blackmage
09-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Er, suc didn't have to be changed, we edit: received it changed. It came with the initial mod.

LogaN
09-12-2012, 12:17 AM
What are you trying to get at, Logan? Please explain why you think that these weapons are stronger than they should!!! What suggests that such an inferiority should exist? As far as I'm concerned, the weapons and proc rates are great as they are. The proc rate is just another facet that is, probability and statistically speaking, married to the firing rate of a weapon, and is yet another to consider when you choose your weapons! You're practically suggesting that if someone enters one ticket into a lottery, they should have an equal chance to win as the person who entered twelve times! When you're using slower shooting weapons, you're supposed to account and adjust for an inferiority that is inherent to the weapon: it's ability to get let off hits in a set period of time. The need to adjust for this does not necessitate buffs in slow firing weapons or nerfs in fast firing weapons!

And Brett is spot on. Your calculations are bad, and you should feel bad.

I'm saying that a person that buys a box with 3kilos of cannabis should get the same amount as a person that buys 3 boxes of cannabis with 1kilo each one.

Blackmage
09-12-2012, 12:43 AM
No, you want the person who bought the 1 kilo of cannabis and the person who bought 10 pills of Viagra to get the same thing. They cost different, they do different things, and they fit different scenarios better.

LogaN
09-12-2012, 12:51 AM
(...)They cost different, they do different things, and they fit different scenarios better.

Yea they should fit in different scenarios but they doesn't here. The weapon with higher fire rate will be better because it will stun, shake, blind and do extra damage more often. If you don't belive test it.

What
09-12-2012, 12:56 AM
OH my god no Logan, procing does not make a great player here, it hasn't, doesn't and will never. Sure it can be annoying some time, but the raiden with a p90 doesn't own the server, he owns the morons who keep walking into hallways and tunnels to confront him. there is a reason that races like nebula use a p90 and humans and jacks don't. Its part of the game, its part of WCS, it is what the game is. For gods sake if you don't like things to be different dont play a mod.

ZERO
09-12-2012, 01:02 AM
I just want to point out that for hit based abilities the chance to activate is based logically on hit. Every time an enemy takes damage the given skill has a chance to activate, defense abilities work exactly the same way.

I will state that logically it would make seance if the proc was based on the actual output and then either hit or did not. Think of it as if this was more realistic. The defense abilities are logical in that when something is (in that it does) going to hit you you have a chance to activate your defensive ability (whatever that is). Defense abilities do not activate for things that missed you as they logically would not. You would not hold your shield up to defend against something that is not going to hit you.

However attack abilities do not work in a logical manner. Logically you would think that if I fired 10 shots and my ability goes off 10% of the time then 1 of the 10 slots was the one the ability was tied to and that shot can or can not hit a target. In the case of the server 100% of all shots that have an ability DO hit a target. In fact the ability is retroactive to shots that did get hits and only shots that got hits have a chance to proc. So if you fired 100 times and only one hit there is really only a 0.1% chance per shot of a proc.

Despite not being that logical does it actually effect the real world values, NO. This is because the meaningful data is still maintained. As stated before logically each shot has a 10% chance to activate the power. However the power activating only matters if the shot hits a target. Therefore it is more resource efficient to just look for shots that did hit and then apply the 10% chance to them individually becuase in the computer world we got to worry about processing time unlike in the real world.

So when you think about how the system works, it is not really illogical at all...

LogaN
09-12-2012, 01:02 AM
OH my god no Logan, procing does not make a great player here, it hasn't, doesn't and will never.

Are you sure? You should check top 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9 p90 always in 1st, 2nd and 3rd place.

What
09-12-2012, 01:19 AM
Are you sure? You should check top 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9 p90 always in 1st, 2nd and 3rd place.


Don't look at the killer look at who they are killing. Its easy picking on people who don't learn or adapt.

I know you dont want to do either of those, but thats not really the server's problem, its yours.

Bane of Soldiers
09-12-2012, 01:21 AM
Umm, you're complaining that the scout and shotgun aren't as versatile as an assault rifle or sub machine gun? I think we've gone over the "why" part...

I think you misunderstand balance. All weapons aren't supposed to function equally. They fill niches-- some cover more than others, depending on the player's abilities, but that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced. Anyone who understands the concepts of strategy, tactics, and specialization-- people who are great teammates --understands this.



I agree with What.
You're just taking a snippet of text and twisting it. Here's a way of looking at it: the p90 is on top because it is frequently used. Because logically, the smarter players would want to maximize their proc rate. What better than a smg with 50 bullets? It's versatile-- it covers a lot of niches if you're a good player. But what does being a smart/good player have to do with the inherent balancing of weapons? And to distort that statistic more is exactly what What was talking about. Some people are either too stupid, lazy, and/or stubborn to try new approaches, while the smarter player with the P90 is either racking the same kills round after round or will switch up their game and flank and destroy their prey.

LogaN
09-12-2012, 01:46 AM
I know you dont want to do either of those, but thats not really the server's problem, its yours.

Sorry but i don't need to learn and i can adapt.

As you can see i can get good scores even on the losing team.(Never changed teams in any of those maps)

http://i.imgur.com/Pj4GP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cRTSj.jpg


Umm, you're complaining that the scout and shotgun aren't as versatile as an assault rifle or sub machine gun?

I never said that.

If you read what Zero said you will see that a skill with 30% proc chance IF all bullets hit with a weapon that shoots 3 bullets in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 90%(30% per bullet) when with a weapon which shoots 1 bullet in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 30%(30% per bullet). (Remember what i said IF ALL BULLETS HIT).

I hope you understand what i just said and don't say that i said things i didn't.

What
09-12-2012, 01:52 AM
Sorry but i don't need to learn.

I Lulz

LogaN
09-12-2012, 01:54 AM
I Lulz

Why "lulz" i was talking about the game not about everything, like i said to bane "dont put things in my mouth". :P

What
09-12-2012, 01:55 AM
like i said to bane "dont put things in my mouth". :P

Not what you said last night! WA BAM!

Masskid
09-12-2012, 01:59 AM
If you read what Zero said you will see that a skill with 30% proc chance IF all bullets hit with a weapon that shoots 3 bullets in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 90%(30% per bullet) when with a weapon which shoots 1 bullet in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 30%(30% per bullet). (Remember what i said IF ALL BULLETS HIT).

umm its 90% chance to proc once >.> for it to proc 3 times its still a 30% chance

Also
Whats the point in buying a TMP? it does little dmg and with your change it will proc less... so I'm not about to spend money on a weapon which sucks >.>

brett friggin favre
09-12-2012, 01:59 AM
you will just never learn that sometimes, you are wrong. -.-

you're also putting a lot of stock in k/d and scores, which means jack shit in wcs.

LogaN
09-12-2012, 02:01 AM
Not what you said last night! WA BAM!

LOL i knew you would say something like that or what most ppl say "that's what she said"

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------


you will just never learn that sometimes, you are wrong. -.-

you're also putting a lot of stock in k/d and scores, which means jack shit in wcs.

Your posts also mean "jack shit" to me because all you do is flame.

Erdenay
09-12-2012, 02:01 AM
umm its 90% chance to proc once >.> for it to proc 3 times its still a 30% chance

Also
Whats the point in buying a TMP? it does little dmg and with your change it will proc less... so I'm not about to spend money on a weapon which sucks >.>


you will just never learn that sometimes, you are wrong. -.-

you're also putting a lot of stock in k/d and scores, which means jack shit in wcs.

What these 2 gentlemen said.

Blackmage
09-12-2012, 02:04 AM
Forgot my quote...


Yea they should fit in different scenarios but they doesn't here. The weapon with higher fire rate will be better because it will stun, shake, blind and do extra damage more often. If you don't belive test it.

Yes, and the stronger gun will: kill someone faster. Bash someone 5 times with a TMP just to be killed, or get 3 hits in with a M4 with no procs just to kill them. Burst fire with a glock for procs, or go for the one Deag. For damage abilities, most are either flat and low or percentage of what you dealt.

We'll go with Orc's damage ability, 15%, just over 1 in 7 chance in procing, shooting people with 100 health. Now I'm going to show some random numbers:

3 shots: 34-49, hits about every 3rd person. Whichever hit it's on is a kill. So, 7-9 hits for 3 kills. 14-18 hits for 6 kills.
4 shots: 30-33, hits about every other person. They die in one, so it's 5-8 for 2 kills, 15-24 hits for 6 kills.
4 shots: 25-29, hits about every other person. They die in two, so 6-8 hits for 2 kills. 18-24 hits for 6 kills.
5 shots: 24, hits virtually every other person. They die in two, so 7-10 shots for 2 kills. 21-30 hits for 6 kills.
5 shots: 20-24, hits virtually every other person. They die in three hits, so 8-10 shots for 2 kills, 24-30 hits for 6 kills.

I think I had a point some time ago, but totally lost track of it while doing Maths...

However, p90 is in the topX because A: it's 2,400. B: it doesn't have to be reloaded a lot. However, let's look at the top 10 players top 3 guns in order:

Aleko: m4, p90, ak
Masskid: m4, ak, knife (p90 is 12th, under glock)
Britney: p90, m4, dualies
(the infrequent) Guanyu: p90, m4, ak
Tom: m4, ak, p90
Fallen: p90, ak, m4
wizard ninja: m4, ak, knife (p90 is 6th, under vagabond)
Ender: m4, ak, p90
Spasm: m4, vagabond, ak (p90 is 5th, under knife)

The 11th: H4X0R: M4, AK, both nebula abilities, p90

You know, I DO notice a gun in EVERY one of those top 3 guns. 14th is the first place without m4 in the top 3 guns (silly Rev Maynard!). There are 4 people in the top 50 without it in their top 3. I lost my place, it's either 17 or 21 of the top 50 without p90 in their top 3.

The top 3 guns, and the number of kills with them are:

m4a1 1,902,491
ak47 1,312,496
p90 1,097,987

What
09-12-2012, 02:07 AM
If you read what Zero said you will see that a skill with 30% proc chance IF all bullets hit with a weapon that shoots 3 bullets in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 90%(30% per bullet) when with a weapon which shoots 1 bullet in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 30%(30% per bullet). (Remember what i said IF ALL BULLETS HIT).

I hope you understand what i just said and don't say that i said things i didn't.


I dont know how i missed that. Thats not how percentages work. If something has a 50% chance of happening and you do it twice its not a 100% chance of happening, its only 50% per chance, the amount of times you do it increase the odds it may happen but you don't add percentages like that, i guess you do have something to learn. WA SLAM!

Bane of Soldiers
09-12-2012, 02:12 AM
I never said that.

If you read what Zero said you will see that a skill with 30% proc chance IF all bullets hit with a weapon that shoots 3 bullets in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 90%(30% per bullet) when with a weapon which shoots 1 bullet in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 30%(30% per bullet). (Remember what i said IF ALL BULLETS HIT).

I hope you understand what i just said and don't say that i said things i didn't.
this will be hard from an itouch....
Since you were complaining about fast firing weapons always performing better, I assumed that this was in comparison to the slower firing guns. My bad if I misinterpreted something about that comment?

And I don't understand why the Proc rate of a slow shooting gun has to equal the Proc rate of a fast firing one. It's counterintuitive to probability. Also, three independent probablities of 30% doesn't equate to a 90% Proc? Not in practice it won't. Which is all still irrlevant because there isn't a good reason to make these rates equal anyway? Refer to Proc rate being a facet of hit rate, weapon niches, and tradeoff of weapons.

Masskid
09-12-2012, 02:14 AM
I derped up my % xD don't pay any attention to it, it's late and I don't like math

Bane of Soldiers
09-12-2012, 02:19 AM
Also, what blackmage, Brett, masskid, and what said.

CYBER
09-12-2012, 02:21 AM
Sorry but i don't need to learn and i can adapt.As you can see i can get good scores even on the losing team.(Never changed teams in any of those maps)http://i.imgur.com/Pj4GP.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/cRTSj.jpgI never said that.If you read what Zero said you will see that a skill with 30% proc chance IF all bullets hit with a weapon that shoots 3 bullets in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 90%(30% per bullet) when with a weapon which shoots 1 bullet in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 30%(30% per bullet). (Remember what i said IF ALL BULLETS HIT). I hope you understand what i just said and don't say that i said things i didn't. LOL, u seriously think these are good scores? A 16-1 on a WINNING TEAM with 0 wins for adversaries, and then a 23-16 was it? Lfft, start pulling 93-2 like spasm, or 70-1 like aleko, or 40-5 like an decent player on a good day, THEN i might actually gIve a fuck about what u're saying. ( well not rly bcos what u're saying is dumb, but wtvr).... I still say is that u are sucking balls at the game and are trying to tweek it to ur personal preferences... And failing horribly at it. I'd give u arguements as to what u're argueing about is stupid, but i'd be just repeating what the others already told u... *sigh* i cnt believe i actually like nemesis more than u... Here's the sad truth: u just depicted urself as the jester clown in the ibis society, and anything u say from now on will never be taken seriously, simply because u know jack shit abou anything and u're trying to suggest shit that goes against all that wcs stands for. Go make me a race, i dare u, just go suggest a race for me with decent attributes/skill/balance/gameplay... I can almost guarantee that it would be beyond stupid or recycled or overpowered as fuck simply because u dnt know how everything is connected to give that amazing balance that we have. Bottom line, dont expect the server to change to babysitt the fail players that cant be creative and adapt face and learn how to counter people and use shit based on environmet and others... If we start changing our standards for any second hand player that is crying too hard for not being able to get what they wanted in game, then wcs will become the new zmod of useless, unskilled, annoying, rejects of the interwebs. Suck it up, learn to change YOUR style to fit the gameplay offered, Nd stop bitching left and right about everything that doesnt conform to ur own preferences. Dnt reply to me, im not even gonna bother reading a reply, but im telling u that u're waisting everyone's and ur time... Someone tell nemesis i love him( no racist homo)... That logan guy's got me more tolerant of people who get on my nerves....

Blackmage
09-12-2012, 02:24 AM
Also, what blackmage, Brett, masskid, and what said.

Masskid said he doesn't like math, I said math distracts me, What said percentages don't work that way, and Brett said K/D and stats don't mean much, so what Bane is saying is that numbers are bad and don't mean anything!

CYBER
09-12-2012, 02:30 AM
Sorry but i don't need to learn and i can adapt.As you can see i can get good scores even on the losing team.(Never changed teams in any of those maps)http://i.imgur.com/Pj4GP.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/cRTSj.jpgI never said that.If you read what Zero said you will see that a skill with 30% proc chance IF all bullets hit with a weapon that shoots 3 bullets in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 90%(30% per bullet) when with a weapon which shoots 1 bullet in 3 seconds the proc chance will be 30%(30% per bullet). (Remember what i said IF ALL BULLETS HIT). I hope you understand what i just said and don't say that i said things i didn't.

LOL, u seriously think these are good scores? A 16-1 on a WINNING TEAM with 0 wins for adversaries, and then a 23-16 was it? Lfft, start pulling 93-2 like spasm, or 70-1 like aleko, or 40-5 like an decent player on a good day, THEN i might actually gIve a fuck about what u're saying. ( well not rly bcos what u're saying is dumb, but wtvr)....

I still say is that u are sucking balls at the game and are trying to tweek it to ur personal preferences... And failing horribly at it. I'd give u arguements as to what u're argueing about is stupid, but i'd be just repeating what the others already told u...

*sigh* i cnt believe i actually like nemesis more than u...

Here's the sad truth: u just depicted urself as the jester clown in the ibis society, and anything u say from now on will never be taken seriously, simply because u know jack shit abou anything and u're trying to suggest shit that goes against all that wcs stands for.

Go make me a race, i dare u, just go suggest a race for me with decent attributes/skill/balance/gameplay... I can almost guarantee that it would be beyond stupid or recycled or overpowered as fuck simply because u dnt know how everything is connected to give that amazing balance that we have.

Bottom line, dont expect the server to change to babysitt the fail players that cant be creative and adapt face and learn how to counter people and use shit based on environmet and others...

If we start changing our standards for any second hand player that is crying too hard for not being able to get what they wanted in game, then wcs will become the new zmod of useless, unskilled, annoying, rejects of the interwebs.

Suck it up, learn to change YOUR style to fit the gameplay offered, Nd stop bitching left and right about everything that doesnt conform to ur own preferences.

Dnt reply to me, im not even gonna bother reading a reply, but im telling u that u're waisting everyone's and ur time... Someone tell nemesis i love him( no racist homo)... That logan guy's got me more tolerant of people who get on my nerves....

brett friggin favre
09-12-2012, 02:35 AM
cyber, didn't you just post that on the last page?

Blackmage
09-12-2012, 02:37 AM
Yes, he did. Or the same page if you're cool like me and have 40 posts per page!

And now he's edited the second one. The plot thickens!

CYBER
09-12-2012, 06:47 AM
cyber, didn't you just post that on the last page? ots the same text, i edited it and amd hit save, my browser crashed just afterwards,, so im actually glad at least it got ppsted once because there aint no way i was gonna rewrite that shit... Fucking iphome

Bane of Soldiers
09-12-2012, 07:09 AM
Leave me alone, I was tired/still am tired DX

acolyte_to_jippity
09-12-2012, 07:11 AM
So you just gave me an example that a race had to be changed because the proc rate isnt working as it should then you say it's balance? If it was balanced the race didn't have to be changed. lol...

I gave you one race that zero felt was better off with a more thematically-appropriate change. after all, you can't logically get 7 heads from one enemy. that's just silly! people only have one, after all. it didn't make the race any more or less powerful, because now any kill at all is guarenteed to result in a head.

you need to stop now dude. you've made a suggestion, it was explained to you that your suggestion is bad. at that point, you should drop it. there's no point in crusading. especially since it will not change anything.

LogaN
09-12-2012, 10:03 AM
The thing is that in my first post i said that in the same amount of time an high fire rate weapon proc alot more than a low fire rate and you kept saying that i was wrong when i wasn't.



LOL, u seriously think these are good scores? A 16-1 on a WINNING TEAM with 0 wins for adversaries, and then a 23-16 was it? Lfft, start pulling 93-2 like spasm, or 70-1 like aleko, or 40-5 like an decent player on a good day, THEN i might actually gIve a fuck about what u're saying. ( well not rly bcos what u're saying is dumb, but wtvr)....

I still say is that u are sucking balls at the game and are trying to tweek it to ur personal preferences... And failing horribly at it. I'd give u arguements as to what u're argueing about is stupid, but i'd be just repeating what the others already told u...

*sigh* i cnt believe i actually like nemesis more than u...

Here's the sad truth: u just depicted urself as the jester clown in the ibis society, and anything u say from now on will never be taken seriously, simply because u know jack shit abou anything and u're trying to suggest shit that goes against all that wcs stands for.

Go make me a race, i dare u, just go suggest a race for me with decent attributes/skill/balance/gameplay... I can almost guarantee that it would be beyond stupid or recycled or overpowered as fuck simply because u dnt know how everything is connected to give that amazing balance that we have.

Bottom line, dont expect the server to change to babysitt the fail players that cant be creative and adapt face and learn how to counter people and use shit based on environmet and others...

If we start changing our standards for any second hand player that is crying too hard for not being able to get what they wanted in game, then wcs will become the new zmod of useless, unskilled, annoying, rejects of the interwebs.

Suck it up, learn to change YOUR style to fit the gameplay offered, Nd stop bitching left and right about everything that doesnt conform to ur own preferences.

Dnt reply to me, im not even gonna bother reading a reply, but im telling u that u're waisting everyone's and ur time... Someone tell nemesis i love him( no racist homo)... That logan guy's got me more tolerant of people who get on my nerves....

93-2 or 70-1 are better than 16-1 but 40-5 isn't. :P

Look at a race like jack his ulti gives him an ak or a scout if it was balanced around doing the same procs in the same amount of time ppl would use scout more than they do because it would be better in certain situations but the way its works it's better to use ak in all situations because your skills with a scout rarely procs.

Saying that you like the way it works is fine but saying that what im saying is wrong, isn't.

Masskid
09-12-2012, 10:16 AM
Sir you haven't answered my question... Why buy a tmp with lessened proc rate?

LogaN
09-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Sir you haven't answered my question... Why buy a tmp with lessened proc rate?

Again? i already explained why more than 5 times look at my example with jack.

brett friggin favre
09-12-2012, 10:27 AM
The thing is that in my first post i said that in the same amount of time an high fire rate weapon proc alot more than a low fire rate and you kept saying that i was wrong when i wasn't.

93-2 or 70-1 are better than 16-1 but 40-5 isn't. :P

Look at a race like jack his ulti gives him an ak or a scout if it was balanced around doing the same procs in the same amount of time ppl would use scout more than they do because it would be better in certain situations but the way its works it's better to use ak in all situations because your skills with a scout rarely procs.

Saying that you like the way it works is fine but saying that what im saying is wrong, isn't.

you just can't take a hint can you...

EVERYBODY WHO IS FUCKING ANYBODY HERE has denied EVERY one of your suggestions, citing multiple circumstances in which your argument makes no sense what-so-fucking-ever, and yet you INSIST on continuing your argument. FOR FUCK'S SAKE you must truly have a fucking superiority complex, there is no rational thought ever conceived by man that would lead you to think "gee all these people including the server's owner are just fucking retarded, i'm always right!" in the face of a goddamn novel's worth of evidence to the contrary. i nominate you for a lobotomy in the name of science, you must be the missing fucking link between man and ape because i have never in my entire life encountered someone with the intellectual capacity of a walnut but you sir have managed to be just that person.

SHUT THE FUCK UP. nobody wants to hear your shitty ass suggestions any more, nobody wants to slam their heads into their desks after reading your inability to comprehend the fact that you are a moron, nobody wants to see your pompous ass around this community any more. if anyone disagrees with me on that point then please say so here, i don't anticipate any replies. we do not like you, we will not listen to you, what little credibility you had before making the mistake of posting on forums that consists of people who actually use their brains is completely lost now, just sit down and play the fucking game, or don't. make everyones lives easier.

LogaN
09-12-2012, 10:47 AM
you just can't take a hint can you...

EVERYBODY WHO IS FUCKING ANYBODY HERE has denied EVERY one of your suggestions, citing multiple circumstances in which your argument makes no sense what-so-fucking-ever, and yet you INSIST on continuing your argument. FOR FUCK'S SAKE you must truly have a fucking superiority complex, there is no rational thought ever conceived by man that would lead you to think "gee all these people including the server's owner are just fucking retarded, i'm always right!" in the face of a goddamn novel's worth of evidence to the contrary. i nominate you for a lobotomy in the name of science, you must be the missing fucking link between man and ape because i have never in my entire life encountered someone with the intellectual capacity of a walnut but you sir have managed to be just that person.

SHUT THE FUCK UP. nobody wants to hear your shitty ass suggestions any more, nobody wants to slam their heads into their desks after reading your inability to comprehend the fact that you are a moron, nobody wants to see your pompous ass around this community any more. if anyone disagrees with me on that point then please say so here, i don't anticipate any replies. we do not like you, we will not listen to you, what little credibility you had before making the mistake of posting on forums that consists of people who actually use their brains is completely lost now, just sit down and play the fucking game, or don't. make everyones lives easier.

I gave you an example with jack but you don't even give your points you just say that i make no sence you are the one with "intellectual capacity of a walnut" because you cant even explain why do you think that i'm wrong, all you do is flame.

Chef C Green
09-12-2012, 10:53 AM
Wow this thread certainly flourished :icon_surprised:


So when you think about how the system works, it is not really illogical at all...

Somehow I feel like this should have been the end... :chin:

brett friggin favre
09-12-2012, 11:28 AM
I gave you an example with jack but you don't even give your points you just say that i make no sence you are the one with "intellectual capacity of a walnut" because you cant even explain why do you think that i'm wrong, all you do is flame.

you want me to explain the basic concepts of the fucking game? ok, the scout is the better option from very long range. now for wcs, jack is not a camping race, its made for rushing in essence (see jack thread) so the scout is not commonly used, but the concept is that he is a "jack of all trades" (see ultimate name) so that it is still useful from very long range. also, read the rest of my posts. yes i flame you, you deserve it, but i also give logical reasons. I'm not gonna hold your hand through every race and explain why for each race we don't need any of the changes you propose.

XX0wnsXY
09-12-2012, 11:32 AM
ok i read this, and i've come to the unavoidable conclusion that i shit better ideas than you bring up.

I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit out smarter statements than him!

Hahah..but seriously, why are you coming onto IBIS forums and trying to change everything? Play the fucking game and stop making yourself look like a fool. IBIS has been the same for years with minor tweaks here and there, but nothing to this degree.

The only ones that complain about vaga's crit not procing are the ones who rely on it because they can't aim. So your point of saying "it will reward people with good aim"..quite the opposite.
Do you know how people with good aim get rewarded? With a high score/KD ratio/xp

What
09-12-2012, 11:58 AM
Look at a race like jack his ulti gives him an ak or a scout if it was balanced around doing the same procs in the same amount of time ppl would use scout more than they do because it would be better in certain situations but the way its works it's better to use ak in all situations because your skills with a scout rarely procs.

Saying that you like the way it works is fine but saying that what im saying is wrong, isn't.


Its a percentage per shot, so duh the scout which is likely to hit your enemy once or twice before they die is going to proc less than the ak in which you hit them 3-4 times, BUT jacks procs arn't insta kills AND a scout is more powerful to begin with. If you can aim well you dont need the procs with the scout because you will kill almost everyone with 1-2 hits.

It only seems to proc more with the guns with a faster rate of fire because you are hitting the enemies more, its no more or no less of a chance with a slower paced weapon, your just hitting the enemy less, so you have less of a chance. But as said before those weapons witha slower rate of fire tend to be more powerful per shot so the procs become less important, unless your idea is to have a bunch of one shot kill races running around.

It sounds more and more like you don't like WCS as a mod since it changes traditional gameplay, but that is kind of the point of a mod there champ.

Blackmage
09-12-2012, 12:30 PM
"93-2 or 70-1 are better than 16-1 but 40-5 isn't. :P"

Actually, especially in WCS, 40-5 is a better SCORE. Not a better RATIO, but it means you're a better player. When respawns can lead to fish in a barrel deaths, a random proc can end you, deaths happen. When you're dominating a team 12-0, having only 1 death, and hardly better than 1 kill a round, means, you're not doing much. Getting 40-5 in a game where it's 6-6 is a MUCH better score.

"Look at a race like jack his ulti gives him an ak or a scout if it was balanced around doing the same procs in the same amount of time ppl would use scout more than they do because it would be better in certain situations but the way its works it's better to use ak in all situations because your skills with a scout rarely procs."

Except the scout does more damage per shot, and is a sniper rather than a assault rifle. If you're ONLY looking at proc rates, yeah, use the AK. If you're looking at the rest of the game, you know, killing people, use the gun the situation dictates. You are correct though, the AK is used more, because it is a weapon that fits more situations. You are INCORRECT that it is used more because it procs more.

"Sir you haven't answered my question... Why buy a tmp with lessened proc rate?"

His answer is: don't, it's now supposed to be never used.

"Somehow I feel like this should have been the end... "

But, I WANT POST COUNT. And to type pretty things!

LogaN:

You seem to have completely ignored that the top 2 weapons in the server are: The M4 and the AK. Why when looking at the top guns list, most are the ones that deal more damage, not the ones that proc more. Why does the data totally disagree with you?

brett friggin favre
09-12-2012, 12:43 PM
LogaN:

You seem to have completely ignored that the top 2 weapons in the server are: The M4 and the AK. Why when looking at the top guns list, most are the ones that deal more damage, not the ones that proc more. Why does the data totally disagree with you?

since he likey can't wrap his mind about how to see that, http://www.ibisgaming.com/wcs_stats/weapons.php

Erdenay
09-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Blackmage, I think I love you :D

Also, just to elaborate on a few points:

RE: M4 / weapons

You can also add even more to the argument about the usage of this gun: two former #1 placed players in the server, Shady Virus and Immune, have it as their by far best weapon which has more twice the kills than any other weapon they used (Slightly less than twice actually for a Immune, but still it's close).

In CSS, all weapons have different advantages and disadvantages - and most of people use guns that are best suited or most versatile for the number of situations they can encounter. Weapons like m4, ak or even p90 have much more versatility and will end up being as better servants in much more situations than a scout, thus they are used more. There's no hidden magic or inherent problems with the current system as far as weapons go.

RE: statistics

If you want to calculate statistics correctly, you need to use the regular f-las. Thus, if you'd want to see all the possible outcomes for what's happening if you shoot 3 shots with a skill that has a 33.(3)% chance to hit (1/3) and assuming you hit all of them, these are the possible outcomes (1 = skill procs; 2 skill doesn't proc):


It works every single time (111). There's only one way that can happen, thus we would calculate a probability for it by 1/3*1/3*1/3=1/27
It only hits the person once, thus the outcomes are 100, 010 and 001. Which means that probability for it is 3*1/3*2/3*2/3=4/9 OR (1/3*2/3*2/3+1/3*2/3*2/3+1/3*2/3*2/3).
Etc.


Conclusion:

As you can see, the percentage does not stay the same for you to hit few procs in a row - the probability is the SAME for each and every shot, but it diminishes significantly if you're actually calculating odds for more than one shot.

CYBER
09-12-2012, 02:23 PM
you just can't take a hint can you...EVERYBODY WHO IS FUCKING ANYBODY HERE has denied EVERY one of your suggestions, citing multiple circumstances in which your argument makes no sense what-so-fucking-ever, and yet you INSIST on continuing your argument. FOR FUCK'S SAKE you must truly have a fucking superiority complex, there is no rational thought ever conceived by man that would lead you to think "gee all these people including the server's owner are just fucking retarded, i'm always right!" in the face of a goddamn novel's worth of evidence to the contrary. i nominate you for a lobotomy in the name of science, you must be the missing fucking link between man and ape because i have never in my entire life encountered someone with the intellectual capacity of a walnut but you sir have managed to be just that person. SHUT THE FUCK UP. nobody wants to hear your shitty ass suggestions any more, nobody wants to slam their heads into their desks after reading your inability to comprehend the fact that you are a moron, nobody wants to see your pompous ass around this community any more. if anyone disagrees with me on that point then please say so here, i don't anticipate any replies. we do not like you, we will not listen to you, what little credibility you had before making the mistake of posting on forums that consists of people who actually use their brains is completely lost now, just sit down and play the fucking game, or don't. make everyones lives easier. http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17665204.jpg lol brett, u seem to have picked up more than my hacker catching abilities from me-.- ... Its kinda scary when you see yourself through someone else:p

I like the <rage mode> brett, and essay writer brett, quite
An enjoyable read:p

Masskid
09-12-2012, 02:34 PM
Again? i already explained why more than 5 times look at my example with jack.
Pardon my language... But when the fuck did you ever answer my question, I asked what the reason was to buy a tmp when it has a limited proc rate and you answered that it procs more because of its fire rate so where is an answer that is actually related to my question

Akoiah
09-12-2012, 03:59 PM
how bout them ravens? butt raped the bengals on monday night. who is your guys favorite nfl team?

also, did not expect rg3 to play so well.

hopefully brady gets his nose broken again if he doesn't start passing to welker

maynard
09-12-2012, 04:15 PM
fail suggestion is fail.

closed. this doesn't need 2 go on for another 10 pages like the last thread where the same things are just said back and forth constantly...

you made your point/suggestion, it's been seen by those who matter and make the decisions... closed.

ZERO
09-13-2012, 02:17 PM
Oh I also wanted to state how you all can find the mathematical proof of the claims about how many hits it actually takes to kill on average with a given weapon. If you look at the detailed weapon stats you can take the number of Shots Hit divided by Total Kills. This will tell you how many shots need to hit on avg to kill with that weapon.

For the m4 it is 2.37
For the p90 it is 2.97

Obviously due to various race abilities these numbers are very different on a pub server where they are:
m4: 4.16
p90: 5.558

Note too how this data also demonstrates how much easier it is to actually make kills or be killed on wcs vs pub.