[ADD] de_cokehouse_cbg

[Goku]

de_cokehouse_cg

Crackhouse remake, bomb version. Bomb site B repositioned to basement on opposite side of the map. Better texturing, lighting, wcs friendly.

UPDATE: Link removed, see latest reply to this thread.

Thanks!

[Assassin]

looks the same.

[brett friggin favre]

i will say this, it does look better but why in fuck's name would you do the de_ version?

[Steamer]

Same thing we do with de of crackhouse. :smirk:

[Erdenay]

It seems to be better that Crackhouse, but it's not that hard to outdo that god awful map. For direct replacement, I'd definitely vote yes, but in general, I'm not sure if we need another map of this type.

[Goku]

I can very easily do a hostage version, it would take a few extra minutes for me.
I am presenting this as a replacement, since I really can't stand the original crackhouse but do like the layout and gameplay.
This one is a little more spacious for the purpose of WCS. Also: the bomb sites are more spread out.

I'm aware it's a familiar map to many people, which is why it is so close to the original.

Definitely download it and test it out on your computer to really see the differences. There is always room for suggestions to improve it, too.

Thanks. :)

[Blackmage]

Looks nice and I'd love to replace crackhouse. I will ask about: Kreig (and auto sniper) at B-Site.

[Erdenay]

Updated download at Gamebanana.

http://gamebanana.com/css/maps/169877

A: The bonus guns were left there as a surprise. I don't think the wcs mod here supports the auto, though... right?

It is illegal to have free guns in wcs (the ones that can be picked up in the map).

[Blackmage]

*cough* dolls *cough*

But, yes, in general, they are a bad idea, which is the main reason I brought them up.

[Goku]

I wish I would have known that free gun rule earlier, but I've fixed it.
No more free guns and made sure the skybox is taller and stops at the edges of the buildings.
No more getting caught underneath the map!!! xD

I'll remove the old download link. I'm sure there is no need for updated screenshots, either, but here's the top view.

6542

ALSO: would you guys like me to fix dolls or any other map for wcs? I'm working on a wcs friendly cs_italy right now, which is almost finished.

DOWNLOAD: http://www.4shared.com/get/_Nyqjm3w/de_cokehouse_cg.html

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I wish I would have known that free gun rule earlier, but I've fixed it.
No more free guns and made sure the skybox is taller and stops at the edges of the buildings.
No more getting caught underneath the map!!! xD

I'll remove the old download link. I'm sure there is no need for updated screenshots, either, but here's the top view.

6542

ALSO: would you guys like me to fix dolls or any other map for wcs? I'm working on a wcs friendly cs_italy right now, which is almost finished.

DOWNLOAD: http://www.4shared.com/get/_Nyqjm3w/de_cokehouse_cg.html

what's wrong w/ dolls or italy?

[Goku]

I'm glad you asked! Well, here's my brief rundown of the maps and how they need improvement for WCS gameplay. These are things that I'm more focused on as a player as well as a mapper, so I realize they're not obvious to everyone, but the less obvious sometimes makes or breaks whether a map is mediocre, awesome, or just plain sucks potatoes.

Dolls:
problems ~
a. violates the 'no free/pickup weapons' on a map rule (tmp in the mousetrap)
b. has graphical errors (minor, but they are present)
c. contains sections that are not quite sized well for smooth playability (like jump heights, doorways, etc)
d. some argue that it should be recolored

solutions ~ removing the TMP, moving the mousetrap to a more inopportune position, resizing the (cereal?) box leaning against the bed, fixing the ladder sizes/positions so players don't get thrown so easily and replacing some textures, but that's more of a preference thing

Italy:
problems ~
a. skybox is far too low for flying races
b. there are far too many player clip brushes that prevent access to rooftops, etc
c. doorways, halls and other sections have objects protruding from them, sometimes causing random death when a particularly fast race bounces off one surface and hits another

solutions ~ a higher skybox, access to more rooftops (admittedly, this will open up the map for flying/teleporting races so I would opt to add ladder access to some rooftops as well), adding clip brushes to "smooth out" object/player collisions

Though these seem like small things, the playability can change drastically with a few minor changes. The idea for dolls is to make access for the less OP races to reach the bomb site a bit more easily and quickly, making the playing field a bit more even. The same kind of goes for my ideas with italy, being that the T side can camp the house all day, while shooting out the windows. Access to rooftops, for one, can make it a bit easier to sneak up on them and create a more interesting perspective. I dig some of the other italy remakes, but they are not designed with WCS in mind. One prime example is the ceiling of the map on the far left side (coming from CT) where flying races leap over an invisible wall and get stuck behind the map. I've already fixed most of the issues in italy and it's nearly ready for compiling, I just need to make some adjustments to the lighting concerning the skybox changes.

I hope this makes sense. :)

[CYBER]

can you PLEASE fix the dolls one in the following spots that cause you to die if you walked or tele'd there?

CT spawn, if u teleport to the corner where the doll is , you die.
ct spawn as well, if u teleport to the corner along the vent line, u die.
Ct spawn as well, if u teleport towards the entrance of the vent, i die.
Drawer below the bookcase facing the spawn, bomb gets stuck between the tiny boxes in that drawer, if u walk in to pick it up, u die.

basically ever triangle shaped corner is a deathtrap...

[What]

Italy:
problems ~
a. skybox is far too low for flying races
b. there are far too many player clip brushes that prevent access to rooftops, etc
c. doorways, halls and other sections have objects protruding from them, sometimes causing random death when a particularly fast race bounces off one surface and hits another

solutions ~ a higher skybox, access to more rooftops (admittedly, this will open up the map for flying/teleporting races so I would opt to add ladder access to some rooftops as well), adding clip brushes to "smooth out" object/player collisions


A: Skybox is fine, one of the things which blows about custom maps is that the skybox is too high. It becomes far too easy for flying races to rush spawns, hide in areas, and run away. As someone who plays vagalion alot on italy, its one of the better maps for the race. And santa gets around just fine, maybe too fine, the way it is. raising the skybox breaks the map, it doesnt fix it,

B:The rooftops are better off without access, as becomes apparent on Italy_tactik, much better balanced map, the roof part is one of the stupidest things in the map, especially since its too easy to disappear into textures. Same as skybox issue, making it bigger breaks the map, doesnt fix it.

C: Never have seen a race die from moving too fast in Italy, or any other map for that case. Only the Vaga's and spider have issue with these things, and that is a result of speed and angle more than objects sticking out, especially on italy where this has never been an issue.





As far as Dolls, meh whatever tmp and mousetraps whatever.

[Goku]

The reason for raising the skybox is to open up the map. Italy is one of those maps that needs it, because it's too T sided. I've seen you stack T yourself, What. Maybe you don't want that handicap to go away, but the purpose is for an even playing field. The skybox was made for regular, while it causes blockage problems for wcs, as well as people hiding/getting stuck behind buildings. It's fixed in my remade version. If you saw the decompiled map and knew anything about mapping you'd completely agree that it needs a LOT of work to support wcs gameplay properly.

If the rooftops have better access, it allows for more realism and combative evenness throughout the races. The clip brushes have been problematic in many cases, including crackhouse, which badly needed to be remade. Wanting a challenge for the op races is fine, but hitting invisible walls because a map was poorly made or not wcs friendly is actually what is "broken".

I've seen races bounce off edges of things and hit the floor, dying. These are things you have to pay attention to, and there's no reason to just make a post to try and discredit my ideas. Your opinion is not a fact, so remember that.

It's a rule: no free/pickup guns on maps. Ask any admin.

CYBER: thanks for pointing those parts out... I will decompile and figure out how to improve those things. I have an idea already of what to do.

Lastly, this post is about de_cokehouse to replace crackhouse (both of them), so I'm sorry for getting off subject.


Peace.

---------- Post added at 02:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------

Oh, sorry about forgetting to address this one: "the roof part is one of the stupidest things in the map, especially since its too easy to disappear into textures"

That happens because of illusionary brushes (in a 3D skybox, for example) and badly placed clip brushes (invisible but impassable). Those are all fixed. I will post the map in another thread and you can see for yourself. :)

[What]

Still stupid, you havent been on WCS enough to see how terrible open skyboxes are. Try playing on Inferno Fog, or dust_aftergo and you'd see there awful. Open sky boxes are also one of the reasons maps like battelship are complete garbage for wcs. You think you balancing for each side, but all your doing is making it easier to race whore.

And also, OMG!!!! Team stacking, I've never heard of such a thing! That clearly never happens in the server.

Also, Name one race other than spider or vaga's that moves so fast it gets killed on a texture in Italy. Never happens.

really, kids these days...

[Goku]

Please feel free to pm me if you have ideas, but shooting down other ideas isn't helpful. This thread is not for arguing your point into the ground in a poor attempt to convince me of your opinion. Put that elsewhere. Thanks.

[What]

Please feel free to pm me if you have ideas, but shooting down other ideas isn't helpful. This thread is not for arguing your point into the ground in a poor attempt to convince me of your opinion. Put that elsewhere. Thanks.

LOLZ:dumb:

You seem to be confusing my critique of the problems with your idea as non-sensical shooting down of your idea. All thoughts about something are not gonna be supportive.

Also, not trying to convince you, since I don't need to, but on a thread where you layout the "problems" with a map, you have to expect a response to those supposed problems especially when they are as ill conceived as the one's you posted.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I'm glad you asked! Well, here's my brief rundown of the maps and how they need improvement for WCS gameplay. These are things that I'm more focused on as a player as well as a mapper, so I realize they're not obvious to everyone, but the less obvious sometimes makes or breaks whether a map is mediocre, awesome, or just plain sucks potatoes.

Dolls:
problems ~
a. violates the 'no free/pickup weapons' on a map rule (tmp in the mousetrap)
b. has graphical errors (minor, but they are present)
c. contains sections that are not quite sized well for smooth playability (like jump heights, doorways, etc)
d. some argue that it should be recolored

solutions ~ removing the TMP, moving the mousetrap to a more inopportune position, resizing the (cereal?) box leaning against the bed, fixing the ladder sizes/positions so players don't get thrown so easily and replacing some textures, but that's more of a preference thing

Italy:
problems ~
a. skybox is far too low for flying races
b. there are far too many player clip brushes that prevent access to rooftops, etc
c. doorways, halls and other sections have objects protruding from them, sometimes causing random death when a particularly fast race bounces off one surface and hits another

solutions ~ a higher skybox, access to more rooftops (admittedly, this will open up the map for flying/teleporting races so I would opt to add ladder access to some rooftops as well), adding clip brushes to "smooth out" object/player collisions

Though these seem like small things, the playability can change drastically with a few minor changes. The idea for dolls is to make access for the less OP races to reach the bomb site a bit more easily and quickly, making the playing field a bit more even. The same kind of goes for my ideas with italy, being that the T side can camp the house all day, while shooting out the windows. Access to rooftops, for one, can make it a bit easier to sneak up on them and create a more interesting perspective. I dig some of the other italy remakes, but they are not designed with WCS in mind. One prime example is the ceiling of the map on the far left side (coming from CT) where flying races leap over an invisible wall and get stuck behind the map. I've already fixed most of the issues in italy and it's nearly ready for compiling, I just need to make some adjustments to the lighting concerning the skybox changes.

I hope this makes sense. :)

yeahh...sorry. but there was 1 sentence in what you wrote which is valid. the free tmp (while not a very major thing) should go. that's it. don't fuck with those maps otherwise. they're awesome as they currently are.

it seems to me the 'problems' you bring up are the end result of people deciding that they would rather bitch and complain, instead of adapting their strategy slightly or even (now is the time for gasping), LEARNING THE MAPS. other than the tmp on dolls, (and the completely retarded color-based complaints), these issues can be solved by players not being lazy fucks and actually putting some effort into learning some shit. it's pretty obvious after the first one or two times what place(s) kill you on italy or dolls, if you enter them wrong...so you either don't enter them that way, or you keep dying.

[CYBER]

yeahh...sorry. but there was 1 sentence in what you wrote which is valid. the free tmp (while not a very major thing) should go. that's it. don't fuck with those maps otherwise. they're awesome as they currently are.it seems to me the 'problems' you bring up are the end result of people deciding that they would rather bitch and complain, instead of adapting their strategy slightly or even (now is the time for gasping), LEARNING THE MAPS. other than the tmp on dolls, (and the completely retarded color-based complaints), these issues can be solved by players not being lazy fucks and actually putting some effort into learning some shit. it's pretty obvious after the first one or two times what place(s) kill you on italy or dolls, if you enter them wrong...so you either don't enter them that way, or you keep dying.To be fair aco, dolls is very restricting for the races. Unless u have a flyer or tele race or unbelieavably low gravity, it's hard to reach the bombsite... If anything there show be a ladder on the wall between ct spawn and the vent bookcase to facilitate non-teleporters... Its fine as is for playability, but not diversity. U're forced to stick to a handful of races here. No one feels like playing a respawner or shadow or any race that makes it hard for them to go plant or defuse the bomb. Currently u literally have to jump hoops around the map through the drawers in order to get there... Just saying , it's not fair. But no other change other that the glithes i mentionned earlier should be fixed. And removig the tmps.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

To be fair aco, dolls is very restricting for the races. Unless u have a flyer or tele race or unbelieavably low gravity, it's hard to reach the bombsite... If anything there show be a ladder on the wall between ct spawn and the vent bookcase to facilitate non-teleporters... Its fine as is for playability, but not diversity. U're forced to stick to a handful of races here. No one feels like playing a respawner or shadow or any race that makes it hard for them to go plant or defuse the bomb. Currently u literally have to jump hoops around the map through the drawers in order to get there... Just saying , it's not fair. But no other change other that the glithes i mentionned earlier should be fixed. And removig the tmps.

so, the problem is that people might not be able to play their favorite race 24/7?

lets see, human, flame pred, sucubus hunter, hells demon, hellhunter, archmage, dragonfly, strider, vaga, molecule, beast, jack...

pretty much any mobility race is great for this map.

[Erdenay]

First of all... Italy is fine as it is. It's skybox is high enough and there's no need to change it. As far as dolls go... Remove it, it is an awful map.


so, the problem is that people might not be able to play their favorite race 24/7?

lets see, human, flame pred, sucubus hunter, hells demon, hellhunter, archmage, dragonfly, strider, vaga, molecule, beast, jack...

pretty much any mobility race is great for this map.

Red ones won't work well, yellow ones are meh.

[Goku]

The entire point, which I think Cyber kind of pointed out is:

The maps are not "broken" for regular gameplay, but we have no maps that are fully customized for WCS here. Italy is fine to play on, but is actually a poor map for WCS, it's just that we like it because it's an old familiar. If you wanted to walk through it with me with some of the races I could explain a bunch of things that we've all noticed from time to time. The only people I expect will complain will be those that 'race whore' and don't like the idea of a more even playing field. Everyone deserves a chance to get kills and enjoy playing. Low levels get nowhere, get frustrated and leave. I've even let people kill me for experience so they don't get frustrated and leave.

My ideas are such that having maps that show access/support/playability for ALL races is something that will make playing them more interesting, and will make the server in general more interesting. With that in mind, there are things wrong with cs_italy when it comes to this mod, it's just that generally people don't know that. Even all the versions of italy have almost all the same "glitches", and they really don't need to be there. People don't have to deal with skywalkers/flyers having access behind textures. The reason you can see through one side is a tool in Hammer called "nodraw", which means invisible. One side is nodraw, one side is textured so you can see the texture on one side and see right through it from the other side. Those are all over the maps and they're REALLY easy to fix.

Keeping a server fresh and interesting keeps it populated. These changes I'm talking about are not big ones, and most of them aren't even visible.

I don't know why people shoot ideas down before they even test them out, but I figure it goes along with being afraid to try new things.

Try something new once in a while?

[What]

Dear god its like talking to a wall. You still assume there are "problems" that "you" need to "fix". Which, there aren't. You still are operating with this fallacy, as well as assuming that when you "fix" said map it makes it even, which considering what you are talking about doing to the map will have the exact opposite effect. Flying races get around just fine on italy, and can be quite a pain in the ass to deal with, now your idea is to make it easier to zip around and hide therefore making it easier to whore those races and at the same time making races like, lets say succubus hunter, even more irrelevant to the game play. Italy is one of, if not the most popular maps on the server. You can chalk this up to familiarity if you want, but people clearly have no issue with it as it stands, as evidenced by tom and aco's comments as well as my own. If you want to have a "WCS specific" map, then make one, from scratch, don't manipulate the existing map cause you feel you can make it better, when all your doing is making it worse.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.