helllluuuurrrr

[† ØblivioΩ †]

Pretty much what Brett said. I've got to say that I'm very impressed how derailed this thread has become.

P.S. Oblivion, I'd highly recommend asking all highest ranked and/or best players what race is generally considered to be the strongest. As far as I'm aware, it's almost unanimous consent that human is the strongest single player race whereas nebula has the highest utility and brings the most total value to the team. Yes, vagabond and vagalion along with others mentioned do bring very strong presence and high team destruction potential, but they are countered much easier than the aforementioned races (I.E. nebula/human).

P.P.S. If you know how to counter all of those races so well and if you're such an expert, if you don't mind, explain how you are with 0.77 kdr? Granted, that is a very subjective and skewed ratio and can be deceptive quite a bit (especially on the high end of the table) that still is an extremely low ratio. There are big differences between players who don't know how to use the race and people who actually know how to play it. I'll use a nebula, human and vagabond as an example:

Even the very worst players normally still end up positive on maxed human - and that's not due to their skill, but only due to the race.

People who are bad at nebula tend to do much worse as there's a slightly higher skill cap, but it's still really easy to and most people will end positive with a nebula even if they are not good.

People who can't control vagabond due their skill limit or experience a lot of times even have a negative kdr. Yes, best players do have immense control over the map as they can scout and pick off targets, but overall they will not be the main driving power barring few specific maps (I do agree that maps such as de_port, de_compound and few others are very, very skewed towards vagas).

One of my point's was that vagabond is not the only cheap class; I specified it was just one example. And said in general in combination with certain maps, exploitation occurs frequently, such as port, etc.

My kdr is only 0.77 because I chose to deathgrind my way through tomes and playing non cheap-classes, not to mention I learned their weaknesses and strengths through experience (I think walkthroughs and guides are for noobs). Once I obtained the other classes, I picked up my kdr a little, but generally avoided human and other mentioned classes once I leveled them. As soon as I discovered just how easy it was with the other classes, I went back to zombie mod and didn't come back. (Not to mention my mac wasn't running the zombie server until I manually had to correct coding for it to run)

When I do play, I mostly only play flame pred. Even if I know most classes will counter me, I like the challenge and it's more fun (hence more deaths, I don't care about kdr).
On a side note, people with higher kdr generally play the cheaper classes to maintain their stats (as mentioned earlier with stat hoarding/team stacking/spectate swappers)

But again as mentioned. I recommended exp scaling so that future players can obtain some earlier classes, because other people had complaints about the overall gameplay. Again I was voicing out what people had issues with, we all know veterans know what classes to use for what, but new people to the server can't experiment to find out. If they never get the CHANCE to level (they don't come to forums to read WCS guide, etc. and get killed with 10 second rush)

Another possible solution would be just to increase time handicap at start of round to use teleport/flight
Nebula could have limited invisibility near the cloud he creates (max can run straight down a hall waaaay far from cloud with complete invis and just lol through office)

And that is what my point was, exploits + maps + class = One hell of an annoying grind from 0-220+
A little more tweeking and experimentation couldn't hurt

When you finally do get a vaga (or santa, etc) and get excited, then you discover everyone leaves when you play those too long.

[maynard]

dude, just cause you suck at WCS, doesn't mean we're going 2 change it lol. Every situation can be countered if you know what you're doing, and if you're quick and understand a vega's movements, they're easy as fuck 2 shoot down.

now stop spamming this guys intro with how you suck at WCS, no one cares.

[† ØblivioΩ †]

dude, just cause you suck at WCS, doesn't mean we're going 2 change it lol. Every situation can be countered if you know what you're doing, and if you're quick and understand a vega's movements, they're easy as fuck 2 shoot down.

now stop spamming this guys intro with how you suck at WCS, no one cares.

People don't like to read do they?

[Erdenay]

One of my point's was that vagabond is not the only cheap class; I specified it was just one example. And said in general in combination with certain maps, exploitation occurs frequently, such as port, etc.

My kdr is only 0.77 because I chose to deathgrind my way through tomes and playing non cheap-classes, not to mention I learned their weaknesses and strengths through experience (I think walkthroughs and guides are for noobs). Once I obtained the other classes, I picked up my kdr a little, but generally avoided human and other mentioned classes once I leveled them. As soon as I discovered just how easy it was with the other classes, I went back to zombie mod and didn't come back. (Not to mention my mac wasn't running the zombie server until I manually had to correct coding for it to run)

When I do play, I mostly only play flame pred. Even if I know most classes will counter me, I like the challenge and it's more fun (hence more deaths, I don't care about kdr).
On a side note, people with higher kdr generally play the cheaper classes to maintain their stats (as mentioned earlier with stat hoarding/team stacking/spectate swappers)

But again as mentioned. I recommended exp scaling so that future players can obtain some earlier classes, because other people had complaints about the overall gameplay. Again I was voicing out what people had issues with, we all know veterans know what classes to use for what, but new people to the server can't experiment to find out. If they never get the CHANCE to level (they don't come to forums to read WCS guide, etc. and get killed with 10 second rush)

Another possible solution would be just to increase time handicap at start of round to use teleport/flight
Nebula could have limited invisibility near the cloud he creates (max can run straight down a hall waaaay far from cloud with complete invis and just lol through office)

And that is what my point was, exploits + maps + class = One hell of an annoying grind from 0-220+
A little more tweeking and experimentation couldn't hurt

When you finally do get a vaga (or santa, etc) and get excited, then you discover everyone leaves when you play those too long.

My point is that whereas there are some "cheap" or "OP" classes, the balance itself in the server is actually quite good. Obviously, a person who has just joined will be at a disadvantage, but this is true for any RP game or server (low levels being ganked by high levels for fun). WCS allows you to access some very strong races at the very beginning (Human being the overall best class, IMO) and while people may suffer and they do, the problem is not really in the balance - there are a few members in our WCS community that do intentionally attempt to make the playground not even, but this is a very difficult problem to solve with equity and efficiency. What this means is that most of the changes you are proposing really wouldn't work - it would just change the type of some of the people abuse the system.

I think WCS has a lot to do with motivation and determination - if you are willing to put in some effort, you'll be able to reap very high rewards. If you don't... Well, there are always other *cough* *cough* alternatives. Anyways, I'm actually derailing the topic myself, so I'd say if you want to continue this, there should either be a separate thread or private conversations. I do advise, however, to actually stay and experience the IBIS community a bit more deeply as a lot of subtleties, opportunities and ways to actually accomplish something will be missed unless you do it properly.

[Clip]

the proper grammer becomes a thing when we're unable to read what you post due to how fucked up it is. and no, it does not show that we are picky assholes, it shows that we want you to type like a regular fucking person, not some sort of side-drooling retard.

lol ok then get an example of a mssg that fucked up? By the way I stated that in my original post. And please watch what you say about those who are not as gifted as most just saying.(have a heart) it is kinda offensive saying someone with mental incapabilities/shortcomings isnt a regular person.

[brett friggin favre]

lol ok then get an example of a mssg that fucked up? By the way I stated that in my original post. And please watch what you say about those who are not as gifted as most just saying.(have a heart) it is kinda offensive saying someone with mental incapabilities/shortcomings isnt a regular person.

but...they're not regular. it's a fact. first we couldn't call them retarded, now we can't call them irregular?

[Clip]

but...they're not regular. it's a fact. first we couldn't call them retarded, now we can't call them irregular?

you did say side-drooling retard. And yes that is offensive. But that aside by you saying we cant call them irregular seems very degrading to the less fortunate. All because you believe it is fact doesnt make it right. Please define regular in regards to the human population as a whole. There is no regular. But its all good just please call some one a dumbass as an insult instead of a insensitive term. I would appreciate it

[brett friggin favre]

you did say side-drooling retard. And yes that is offensive. But that aside by you saying we cant call them irregular seems very degrading to the less fortunate. All because you believe it is fact doesnt make it right. Please define regular in regards to the human population as a whole. There is no regular. But its all good just please call some one a dumbass as an insult instead of a insensitive term. I would appreciate it

firstly check who said what, you side-drooling retard. second, if i do say something offensive to one person (such as calling someone a side-drooling retard),i mean it to that one person (you)...not to a whole group of people. thirdly, if you're gonna argue that people with genetic abnormalities are "regular" just cuz it sounds politically correct or something, then you can suck my dick because you're spitting in the face of science. they are DIFFERENT. it is literally proven by science.

[What]

you did say side-drooling retard. And yes that is offensive. But that aside by you saying we cant call them irregular seems very degrading to the less fortunate. All because you believe it is fact doesnt make it right. Please define regular in regards to the human population as a whole. There is no regular. But its all good just please call some one a dumbass as an insult instead of a insensitive term. I would appreciate it

Well it is the internet, something not well known for being overly PC. Of course no one uses those terms when referring to those who are handicapped or otherwise challenged, that would be a complete prick move. I can understand you may be sensitive to such terminology and its fully within your rights to be so, but just remember there is a difference between a statement intended to be over the top or hyperbolic and something which is filled with vitriol and hate. While you may feel it simply promulgates issues with such words, freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. You can't start taking things off the table without then having to satisfy everyone who may have issues with certain words.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i'm going to point out, that CALLING someone something doesn't necessarily imply that they are being insulted. the fact that you think being a side-drooling retard is an insult...well that speaks alot about you doesn't it?