Races question

[Blackmage]

I'm testing a theory and was wondering, what does the community think are the strongest and weakest races on the server?

I'm not looking for overplayed, it doesn't matter if you like the race or not, I don't care if they have counters or are balanced. I'm just looking for people's gut feelings on this one.

[Xerenix]

Vagalion as strongest race in my case.

Succubus as it is now is weakest for me.

[What]

Strongest in relevance to them being played to their best ability:

Santa, Strider, Human, Jack

Weakest in the same regard:

Rapscallion, Orc, Hell Hunter

[Wolfenstinger]

(Night Elf) Rapscallion Stronkest Race

(Archmage Proudmore) Vagalion Weakest Race

[Passarelli]

Human > Santa > Bond > Die Xonvert > Molecule

SotV < Panorama

This is only when laces are used. Without laces it changes to something like

Athena > Night Elf > Shadow Hunter > Molecule

Magician < SotV < Panorama

[Wolfenstinger]

Of the 33 races, 1 being best, 33 being worse... goes as follows. . .

33. Archmage Proudmore
32. Chameleon
31. Hell Hunter
30. Magician
29. Rapscallion
28. Dragonfly
27. Die Xonvert
26. Hells Demon
25. Shadow of the Void
24. Raiden
23. Genocide
22. Orcish Horde
21. Warden
20. Flame Predator
19. Undead Scourge
18. Beast
17. Succubus Hunter
16. Crypt Lord
15. Santa
14. Strider
13. =Jack=
12. Human Alliance
11. Eye Ra
10. Panorama
09. Blood Mage
08. Nebula
07. Molecule
06. Vagalion
05. Vagabond
04. Spider-Man
03. Shadow Hunter
02. Athena
01. Night Elf

It's somewhat as close as I can get to what I look for when i'm playing Lion.... Some I make mental notes for such as the Undead Scourge, Flame Predator, and Shadow of the Void due to the suicide bombs / black holes. Vagas aren't #1 and #2 on the list because they can still be shut down easily. This whole list is composed of just the races themselves if they are all considered of equal skill level and not one shop menu item.

[Passarelli]

Wolf, you need to make another list when everyone (or most people) have laces since they are so powerful, common, and change the rankings so drastically.

Also, Archmage is better then you think. The flight is useful sometimes (CT on Italy or CT Cbble). Even without flight the speed boost, aim screw, and free m4 is pretty powerful.

EDIT: Also, you have Die Xonvert down twice.

[Erdenay]

This is my list. My assumptions are: a regular map (not something like Nipperhouse or port where some races gain exponential strength), max level, full items and a player is of exceptional quality (I.E. someone who can use the race to the best of its abilities).

33. Rapscallion
32. Hell-hunter
31. Warden
30. Panorama^1
29. Chameleon
28. Magician^2
27. Dragonfly
26. Orc
25. Eye Ra
24. Shadow of the Void
23. Genocide^3
22. Flame Predator
21. Beast
20. Bloodmage^4
19. Undead Scourge
18. Night Elf
17. Raiden
16. Die Xonvert
15. Crypt Lord^5
14. Archmage Proudmore
13. Succubus Hunter^6
12. Strider
11. Athena
10. Hells Demon
9. Shadow Hunter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there's a HUGE gap between all of the previous races and the following 8 (or the BIG 8). With truly skillful players, any of these can be nigh unplayable.
8. Vagalion
7. Santa
6. Jack
5. Nebula^7
4. Molecule
3. Spiderman
2. Human
1. Vagabond

^1 - this race can increase in value a lot for the TEAMPLAY if you have someone who has a high skill ceiling and is selfless (doesn't care about stats), so the potential for this race in a 10 v 10 for me would be significantly different than just overall strength of the race in most situations.
^2 - Magician is an interesting case as it can potential be up at Big 8 (invisible bird with 150 health), but the randomness and overall situation leaves this race quite low.
^3 - same as ^1 (panorama)
^4 - Bloodmage's value significantly increases in large team situations (10 v 10) and a large amount of bloodmages can overpower nearly anything by raw force (we've done such an experiment).
^5 - Somewhat same situation as Athena ---> this race is incredibly powerful in the winning team, but significantly worse in the losing situations. Both of these races can possibly be even in top 5 as far as devastation goes, but it's not consistent, thus the low place.
^6 - A full powered up succubus hunter can be nearly unkilleable, but considering the effort needed to get it powered up starting the first round it suffers from a relatively low placement.
^7 - Nebula, IMO, can possibly as the single MOST USEFUL race in WCS in the right team environments: it is incredibly strong in dueling (1v1) and swarming scenarios (1v5+), but it also gives one of the best tools for the team to succeed, so I'd possibly rate it as the strongest 10v10 race out there.

As noted above, these assessments were done in case of the nearly perfect player example. If I'd have to say the race strength on average, I'd pick human, spiderman and molecule as three strongest races probably followed by hells demon and then Athena or Crypt Lord. Race strength also varies drastically with maps, players and teams, so it is incredibly difficult to pin it down.

[Sin]

Where the fuck is my Jack on this list?

[Wolfenstinger]

*fixd to have Jack in #13 over 2 Die Xonverts... Whoops.