WCS Rules

[maynard]

"There must be a clear path for the opposing team to take towards their objective at all times."

added as a new rule. separated from rule 5 to prevent any confusion.

[Blackmage]

And so we don't get "he said, she said", as it's become a thing again, suicide to deny is currently a no-no, correct? Yes, I asked you and yes I'm making a giant leap that the people who need to will read this, but, alas. Want it in writing, as currently, the two stances we have are "it's fine" and later "don't abuse it".

Also, rule 12, does that apply for wards/damaging things/blocking things or is it a suggestion for summoning too? Alternatively, in Rule 1, stuck, does it apply to only being inside walls, or does that include areas where you cannot reach the objective.

[Erdenay]

And so we don't get "he said, she said", as it's become a thing again, suicide to deny is currently a no-no, correct? Yes, I asked you and yes I'm making a giant leap that the people who need to will read this, but, alas. Want it in writing, as currently, the two stances we have are "it's fine" and later "don't abuse it".

Also, rule 12, does that apply for wards/damaging things/blocking things or is it a suggestion for summoning too? Alternatively, in Rule 1, stuck, does it apply to only being inside walls, or does that include areas where you cannot reach the objective.

I second this - I've also asked maynard before to put that rule in stone just so we'd end all of this once and for all.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

2) Taking advantage of the shortcomings of valve
3) Taking advantage of a mod
A) When used to break the normal functionality of the game
a) Such as wards or poison smoke being used on bombs and hostages

XII. Spec/Retry
1) No player shall enter spectate to avoid death.
2) No player shall reconnect or leave the server and come back to avoid death.
3) No player shall reconnect or leave the server and come back to play again in the same round.
4) Above applies to all servers for all players, should not be confused with allowing zombies to teleport to avoid death.

All of this can be found in the server general rules.
I hope this answers your question about using the kill command to avoid death by the enemy, avoid doing the objective, or any other reason to avoid doom.

Ill explain how it is used as an exploit.

Player A is a a vagalion

Player B is a Human

Player B has a lace

Player A gets stuck by lace

Player A executes the Kill command to prevent Player B from getting experience or to simply troll Player B.

Player B says fuck that!

Player A lawls

DJ Mikey tells player A he is a faggot and to not exploit the short coming of valve, to not use a command that breaks the normal functionality of the game, ect.

Player A cries like a baby.


Edit: ill even agrue that the same can be said about players who use the kill command just to buy more tomes.

[Blackmage]

One problem lies in the fact that the "kill" command is NOT a shortcoming. It is a command that has high strategic value, in any gamemode where it is allowed, if used correctly. It can deny money, deny kills count, stop objective completion bonuses. It is a normal gameplay tactic, just with more incentive here.

It's also not clearly referenced anywhere, which is what I'm trying to fix. Currently it just exists as side notes.

Not really sure how "XII. Spec/Retry" applies. First off, the kill command is neither going to spectate or rejoining the server. Also, going spectate doesn't avoid death, at least in WCS. Related: death does not: Avoid death or let you play twice. If you read it "using any method to avoid being killed by another player", then I can see. But if that's the case, then we still have this clarity issue that I'm trying to bring to light.

WCS also has need of related, but different rule, which is why rules such as:

1) Taking advantage of the shortcomings of a map
A) Using methods not intended by the map creator to gain an advantage where it is 99%+ impossible for zombies to get you
B) Camping in areas that you can only get to by exploiting a map or using special zombie powers to get to the end of an escape map

Don't apply to us and we have rule 3 instead.

On your edit, the recent ruling that while you disagree with, you also should know about. Here for the curious. Going to spectate to buy tomes is allowed. So a normal gameplay element is granted additional functionality in WCS. Killing yourself to get more tomes, at least I'd qualify them as similar. Same for "kill" to remove kits from Vagas.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

One problem lies in the fact that the "kill" command is NOT a shortcoming. It is a command that has high strategic value, in any gamemode where it is allowed, if used correctly. It can deny money, deny kills count, stop objective completion bonuses.

All of those things contradict the rules in place specifically for this mod.

[brett friggin favre]

Using the kill command should only be done if two invis races are stuck and are the last two alive. The one ego should use it is determined by the type of map: t on de_ maps, CT on cs_ maps. Not doing so is in essence excessive camping. Using kill to deny someone a kill is against the rules in my book. It's like you're losing in checkers and you just throw the board across the room. It's very poor sportsmanship, and shouldn't be encouraged.

[CYBER]

Yes, denying xp by suicide should not be allowed, specially a vaga that was stuck by a lace by a NON-frozen race (not vagas or rap)... even if its gonna take him the entire fucking round time to find that invis vaga, u cant just go kill urself and deny the guy the xp. but if two stuck races are left only, like brett said, T suicides for de_maps and CT suicides for cs_maps, bcos thats how the round will announce it if they dnt do obj.


as for the rest, This is my opinion and my opinion only: typing kill after 8+ rounds or whatever to buy tomes, because you reached 16k, have already 3 shopmenu items and 5 tomes should be perfectly fine. You're losing ~9k worth of shop items to do so...
People dont usually kill themselves at that point if they didnt think 'hmm i cant spend my EARNED money on anything?!" ... Not to mention that the the KILL command fucks your kdr, and our community mostly gives a fuck about stats...

The same goes for vagas or neb and raps killing themselves at round end to get rid of a kit, with all due respect but zero should have implemented a 'Drop kit/bomb feature for all invis races on their +ability keys... Currently T vagas have an edge over ct vagas when it comes down to being flagged by a floating object.

If zero isnt going to implement this patch to BALANCE both teams of invis races, then personally me i will fucking kill myself every time i randomly pick up a fucking kit dropped by an idiot teammate who decided to die through double doors or on bomb etc... Its not easy spotting a kit on ground when teleporting to that spot 100 ft away>_< ...

im willing to play out the round WITH the kit, so that i do my objective and not deny someone xp in spotting/killing me, but after round end, the only person im harming with a suicide is myself, to get rid of that kit.

[Chef C Green]

[COLOR=#ff0000]
The same goes for vagas or neb and raps killing themselves at round end to get rid of a kit, with all due respect but zero should have implemented a 'Drop kit/bomb feature for all invis races on their +ability keys... Currently T vagas have an edge over ct vagas when it comes down to being flagged by a floating object.

If zero isnt going to implement this patch to BALANCE both teams of invis races, then personally me i will fucking kill myself every time i randomly pick up a fucking kit dropped by an idiot teammate who decided to die through double doors or on bomb etc... Its not easy spotting a kit on ground when teleporting to that spot 100 ft away>_< ...

im willing to play out the round WITH the kit, so that i do my objective and not deny someone xp in spotting/killing me, but after round end, the only person im harming with a suicide is myself, to get rid of that kit.

+1 Agree that this should have no affect on gameplay. Even more though, I really like the idea of a +ability for Vaga's seeing as the function is not being used for anything at the moment. To keep it still more challenging, what if a new set of levels was added for +ability (call it "Stalker" or something) where you get 3-15 seconds where ALL items (bomb + kit) are also invisible. Gives vaga's time to plant without being seen (hopefully getting those players who just use those races for kills to actually do their objective), or defuse.

@Cyber, you should post your idea on the race suggestion thread, would like to see that aspect balanced more as you said.

[Blackmage]

All of those things contradict the rules in place specifically for this mod.

if your stuck and can't do anything and are the last person 2 do the objective, then you should type kill in console and kill yourself. CS is team based. if you can't complete the objective cause your stuck then off yourself, don't make every 1 wait for you cause you don't want 1 more death on your record.

it's not officially against the rules... no one has ever punished for this as the person killing himself is just destroying his score, and is not benefiting in any ways from it... people doing it once in a while has never been an issue.

Problem is we have rulings such as that first one found here. Second ruling here. Also, ruling such as the popular "glitching flight races was allowed" which ALSO goes against our rules, but was ruled to be allowed. Our rules are not the most consistent or clear.

Yes, this is against the rules, I just want it in writing by an official source. We also have the issue we're not supposed to make up our own rules, so the best way to combat that is ALSO having it written.

Edit: and technically it's going with the rules. If you are stuck, you cannot complete(respect) your objective, and therefore SHOULD kill yourself.