Health Care Reform

[ZERO]

I was not just referring to large gov I was referring to the size of its power in what aspects of your life are controlled and influenced by it. Take for example feudalism now that is not a large gov per say but you were = fucked. However you were provided with security and land and other needs. It is a good thing we have our lord to give us all this great stuff!

[OMGBEARS]

Get the fuck out of here.

I just want to quote this to let you know I read it and to likewise let you know that I rolled my eyes. Good job refuting my points.

Actually over 800 concentration camps already exist across the USA, and I could give a better comparison but I really don't feel like doing the research for a forum. http://www.topix.com/forum/city/russ...SGT6OIGQNRCO78

Rex 84 was issued in the middle of Ronald Reagan's (the guy every republican bows down to) presidency. To my knowledge it's considered a "continuity of government" protocol in the event of nuclear war or another world war. Of course, this power can be abused, but what powers can't?

Your opinion, and very socialist view. I think those matters should be state concerns not the federal government, and just no on healthcare and argiculture.

I am a very liberal progressive and borderline socialist, so this makes sense. As for agriculture, the federal government already provides subsidies to farmers, so yeah for that. Healthcare at the moment isn't subsidized to my knowledge.

Ok true, but if our healthcare is that bad, why do people come to our country to get it?

People who come here for our health services pay out of pocket for the care they receive. They don't need to worry about the bills. My point is they have the funds for that access. 30 million Americans cannot afford access to our healthcare system. What a public option would do (or a single-payer system), would enable those millions of people to gain access to the same health care that insureds (and those rich enough to pay out of pocket) receive.

Downright made up information. The main cause for foreclosures in the U.S. is unemployment. People getting loans they should have never gotten thanks to Bill Clinton. What Bill did was to lower the capitalization limits required, and to lower the creditworthiness levels required for a mortgage to be considered "sub-prime", which in turn resulted in banks giving out loans they should have never gave out. Thank you once again big government.

My bad, medical bills were far and above the leading cause of bankruptcies in the United States in 2001. What is even more shocking is that most of these people had insurance, too. I meant bankruptcies. Draw your own conclusions.

Do you know what regulations the government had on healthcare before the this bill? The MAIN reason it is so high is because of all the extra things the insurance companies have to cover. If I am 25 years old, I do not need 90 percent of the stuff regulated by our government. i.e. Insurance companies have to insure programs to help you stop smoking... what???

That's odd.. because insurance companies have been making record profits with money they've collected in premiums then turning around and denying coverage for anything from misspelled names to being in the 95 percentile for weight as a breast-feeding baby. Not even coherent yet and already being denied coverage. Wow..

If you don't think America is the greatest country in world your an idiot, and I did not start calling out names like you.

I calls them as I sees them. Refute some of my points then get back to me.

The world is not cupcakes and ice cream. Look how fast Russia invaded Georgia. We cut our military we will be a target. Not everyone cares about people being healthy and having great things, some men our out to conquer and control the world. History repeats itself. I would say the main reason why Russia and China are not taking the world by force is because they are scared of us, you take that away, you will give Putin his day.

Have you heard of mutually assured destruction? It is the reason that there will not be another war between super powers. War is for first world countries to wage on third world countries.

Maybe you need a little history lesson.

The nation was in shambles. A previous ruler had led the country into an unnecessary war, the economy was failing, and a sense of depression filled the air. Then, a new leader emerged. He was a powerful speaker, offering hope, change, and a fix to the economy. He wrote two books about his experiences and used his literary work to propel him to success. He was an open christian with some muslim friends. He called for unity and considered himself an advocate of peace. Some of his political opponents cast him as naive and inexperienced. He also had alot of radical ties, but the media, and ultimately the voters, were willing to overlook that.

Barack Obama... oh wait no thats Adolf Hitler. You can do more research on your own time.

Sounds like any public figure or really almost anyone who runs for president.

Did you even read my post? or are you willfully dense most people when they cant argue try to change the subject or personally attack. Either way you fail to recognize my main point.

So I'm not comparing Obama to anyone and if you had a reading comprehension past a 4th grade level you would understand that I simply suggest that in 4/8 years be it a Democrat or Republican, it could be someone very bad, that believe it or not my abuse the powers of the office. I mean History shows that people in power Never abuse it...

You trust Obama and want to give him power over every part of your life and pay him to do it OK fine, but would you give Bush that power ??? or some unknown ?

You like other countries better than ours OK FUCKIN MOVE to Canada. What makes America great is the power resides as close to the people as possible.

Did you even read my post? Methinks you're overlooking some things.

Remember, every American is a Canadian when overseas.

[maynard]

how much does the average amerian have 2 pay for this medical now?

[OMGBEARS]

how much does the average amerian have 2 pay for this medical now?

"In 2008, U.S. health care spending was about $7,681 per resident and accounted for 16.2% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP); this is among the highest of all industrialized countries. Total health care expenditures grew at an annual rate of 4.4 percent in 2008, a slower rate than recent years, yet still outpacing inflation and the growth in national income. Absent reform, there is general agreement that health costs are likely to continue to rise in the foreseeable future. Many analysts have cited controlling health care costs as a key tenet for broader economic stability and growth, and President Obama has made cost control a focus of health reform efforts under way."

-- kaiseredu.org

[ZERO]

It will be hard to say as it will depend if they get forced to their own plans from companies dropping coverage due to increased cost or not. The main increase will be the new taxes as the amount in cost attributed to insurance company profits is around 2% how this could considerably lower cost to the average person is a mystery to me.

[loka]

how much does the average amerian have 2 pay for this medical now?

It depends on your job status. Health status. Family size. Depends what your company provides for insurance. Then of course copay's if you have Private insurance. I know it's free if you go to college and claimed as a dependent by your parents or you can pay the university health insurance which is around 800 for a whole year.

I just went in today to go under MassHealth. I will most likely go under HMO Blue, Harvard Pilgrim or Tufts. It'll be free or I pay a low fee per month because I am unemployed, until I await for May, and MHS will kick in for me. Of course this is under the state I live in and I don't know what other states have state mandated health insurance. https://www.mahealthconnector.org/po...ite/connector/

[maynard]

so why is every 1 so pissed off about this? seems like it's not going 2 really cost that much for the average person.. and this would lead 2 a healthyer and better workforce for your nation....?

[loka]

so why is every 1 so pissed off about this? seems like it's not going 2 really cost that much for the average person.. and this would lead 2 a healthyer and better workforce for your nation....?

Because people are afraid of change maynard. I remember when they passed gay marriage in Massachusetts, and every ultra-conservative nut job wanted to make the comparison of "well now a man can marry his pet." Get real idiots. Honestly though, like I've been mentioning for awhile, Massachusetts was the first state that all Massachusetts residents are required to have health insurance. To cut costs, we now deny immigrants from gaining health insurance (which I agree with), but I guess for my family they feel safe now that if something were to happen to me (which I could give a fuck and why I waited so long until the cut off date for getting fined) I am going to be insured until I get my ship date orders.

[gas.]

I guess this is how you explain EXECUTIVE ORDERS maybe your the one wearing the Foil hat cause something aint getting though to you.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990
allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995
allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997
allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998
allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999
allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000
allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001
allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002
designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.




LOOK the point is there is serious groundwork being laid and the potential for abuse is EXTREME !!! you trust Obama some trusted Bush but it dosent matter you should ask Who's next ??? because WHEN someone gets in who takes all this rope you give em and hangs you with it well I suggest you (kill yourself now)



And its not about people saying everything else is ok and now suddenly they have a problem with HealthCare there is a MASS Awakening in America and this was the first major fight and the Government Steamrolled the American people further proving their out of control. Bush started picking up speed and now Obama is pushing Warp speed on implementing this ground work. People are waking up! where the fuck are you? still suckling off the government Tit? watch your government Media and eat up what they sell you cause when the shit hits the fan your toast dip shit.

Mature.

Keep reading up on youtube conspiracy theorists.

[Spasm]

It will be hard to say as it will depend if they get forced to their own plans from companies dropping coverage due to increased cost or not. The main increase will be the new taxes as the amount in cost attributed to insurance company profits is around 2% how this could considerably lower cost to the average person is a mystery to me.

They plan on going into the negatives... thats how it is portrayed as cheaper. This bill doesnt' really start affecting us until 2015 but we are going to start paying more taxes this year. So for the first 4 years we are getting taxed for nothing. The CBO only looked 10 years ahead and said that we would break even, but thats only true because we are paying taxes on it for 4 years without getting much of anything.

"People who come here for our health services pay out of pocket for the care they receive. They don't need to worry about the bills. My point is they have the funds for that access. 30 million Americans cannot afford access to our healthcare system. What a public option would do (or a single-payer system), would enable those millions of people to gain access to the same health care that insureds (and those rich enough to pay out of pocket) receive. "

-- If its free then why in the FUCK would they come here for healthcare, thats right because they cannot get it at their own country, use some common sense for fucks sake.

" Originally Posted by Spasm View Post
Actually over 800 concentration camps already exist across the USA, and I could give a better comparison but I really don't feel like doing the research for a forum. http://www.topix.com/forum/city/russ...SGT6OIGQNRCO78
Rex 84 was issued in the middle of Ronald Reagan's (the guy every republican bows down to) presidency. To my knowledge it's considered a "continuity of government" protocol in the event of nuclear war or another world war. Of course, this power can be abused, but what powers can't?"

-- I only stated this because gas. mentioned something about concencration camps being built here as a joke, and I wanted to point out that they are already here, he just did not realise it.

"My bad, medical bills were far and above the leading cause of bankruptcies in the United States in 2001. What is even more shocking is that most of these people had insurance, too. I meant bankruptcies. Draw your own conclusions."

-- Good Point but http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bank...-in-canada.htm this study right here says that 1/3 of Canada bankruptcy is still due to medical problems, even with a single payer nationilized healthcare system. To say that its a direct result of our system would be false but nationilized healthcare does have that benefit, but does that benefit outweigh all the cons and debt assosciated with single payer healthcare, I think not.


"My bad, medical bills were far and above the leading cause of bankruptcies in the United States in 2001. What is even more shocking is that most of these people had insurance, too. I meant bankruptcies. Draw your own conclusions."

--http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...make-a-primer/ I just randomly found this article in google, this health insurance companies profit margin is 4.07 percent, that is nothing compared to other companies such as Microsoft (27.07 percent) Toyota (16.7 percent) McDonalds (44 percent), just to name a few.

"Have you heard of mutually assured destruction? It is the reason that there will not be another war between super powers. War is for first world countries to wage on third world countries. "

-- World leaders thought the same before WWI and WWII. Ever heard of the League of Nations? Maybe you should because that is basically the same idea.

-- I also believe this idea is false although I don't have much proof besides looking into history, I will say that I think this mentality is how you get conquered.

"Sounds like any public figure or really almost anyone who runs for president.
"

-- Just an FYI that was a quick example, but I would be willing to look up information proving that your statement is directly false. I heard jokes of some of our Presidents being alcholics and nothing of a leader getting elected and becoming a great President.


This country was FOUNDED on beliefs of a small government and strong state and individual freedom. We are gave life liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness, we are not gave happiness just the pursuit of it. It's people like you OMGBEARS that go out and try and change the way this country was founded, to fundementally change how are forefathers chose this great nation to be. They made things certain ways because of the way the British Parliment treated them. There is an unsettling similarity between our conflict with England and our conflict with the federal government. If you don't like the Constiution and you think that government is the way to go, then MOVE. Canada or England needs to be your home and don't come crying to us when Russia invades your ass and your pathetic ass military and save the planet mentality gets you no where. From your earlier posts you proved that you could give two fucks less about the debt and I can see why. Leftist don't think about the debt, they don't see the whole picture, just the good side of things not the negative side. The fact is that medicad, medicare, social security spend half of our GDP every year. The other fact is that it is projected that these programs will put us roughly 55 TRILLION in debt. These countries we owe it to are eventually going to get fucking pissed off at us and get there money, it's either that or they will just drop us all together, which would lead to a revolution among other things. This country is headed down an all to familiar road, Rome anyone?