Health Care Reform

[Spasm]

Have you seen the debate on health care? It'd definitely a two sided argument. Republicans who are all "no" and (most) democrats who are all "yes." Bipartisanship is out due to republicans making militants of their base by demonizing anything pushed by democrats and progressives. If they even think about voting with democrats their base will simply find someone else. However, this isn't simply a republican problem, now it's become a problem for all of us.



According to this poll 20% of Americans prefer Socialism to Capitalism, 53% of Americans outright prefer capitalism of Socialism, and 27% of Americans are unsure. This is after taking into consideration that Americans under 30, of which 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided, you begin to see a trend: there is a paradigm shift about to happen in American within the next 25 years. I have no doubt that there will be a socialist movement in America to replace the free-market way of thinking in our lifetimes.

The reason why people under 30 believe this way is because from the day you are put into the school system, you are getting brainwashed by leftist teachers. Its hard not to be that way when all your taught for the first 20 years or so of your life is that you don't earn things, people owe it to you. You should listen to some of the lectures my leftist college professors give, it is downright sad. Hell one of my professors is literally worshipping Al Gore every class, and if I dare oppose I will suffer with lower grades just because of my views

[Vladninja]

The reason why people under 30 believe this way is because from the day you are put into the school system, you are getting brainwashed by leftist teachers. Its hard not to be that way when all your taught for the first 20 years or so of your life is that you don't earn things, people owe it to you. You should listen to some of the lectures my leftist college professors give, it is downright sad. Hell one of my professors is literally worshipping Al Gore every class, and if I dare oppose I will suffer with lower grades just because of my views

+1
I couldn't agree more.... I once had an economics teacher who was very very into communism.
Needless to say I had to drop the class before my big mouth got me a failing grade.
I took the class the very next semester from a less biased professor and got an A in the class.

[OMGBEARS]

Spasm, you don't seem to realize that countries aren't like people -- they can go into debt and do deficit spending. People die, and countries are a wee bit more stable. Per capita, we are the richest nation in the world with the highest GDP in the world, as well. Debt or no, we still control the most wealth.

On the flip side, Spasm, you speak as there is some sort of purely "leftist" attitude pervading in the schools. I agree to an extent that our schools have gotten more and more liberal over the years, I hold to the idea that every hundred generations or so there is a shift in thought. Conservative thought is a stance of the last thousand years or so. The privileged get the whole pie and every one else is relegated to what they can manage. For me, this isn't right. It isn't how things should go down in my book. Every human being is deserving of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Just because they were born underprivileged doesn't mean they should be constrained to that. Society benefits the most when the poorest of us are afforded the most charity.

No president has done more to expand executive power (and the federal government with it) and to increase government spending than Bush. Putting us into two wars and wasting over 700 billion dollars in those theaters alone (not withstanding tax cuts and the like) was no small feat. Sure, Obama has supported the war in Afghanistan, at least we had a reason to go in there, however shortsighted we may have been at the time. There was no legitimate reason to go into Iraq. Republicans wanted 40,000 troops for a surge in Afghanistan, Obama sent 30,000. Again, Obama is attempting to solve three wars, a recession, as well as handle a heavily polarized house and senate due to Republican fear mongering.

Socialism isn't wrong, it's simply a different set of values. If I would think that my values were the only way to live then I would be an idiot. Capitalism isn't wrong, it's simply a different set of values. If you were to think your values were the only way to live then you would be an idiot. I know many more Capitalist idiots in this world than Socialist ones. Don't get me wrong, both sides have them, but as far as one being right or wrong? It's the majorities call on that one.

[loka]

The reason why people under 30 believe this way is because from the day you are put into the school system, you are getting brainwashed by leftist teachers. Its hard not to be that way when all your taught for the first 20 years or so of your life is that you don't earn things, people owe it to you. You should listen to some of the lectures my leftist college professors give, it is downright sad. Hell one of my professors is literally worshipping Al Gore every class, and if I dare oppose I will suffer with lower grades just because of my views

Not true. Especially after arguing heavily with this idiot who thought he knew about leftist shit. Back during the 50s with McCarthyism, college professors were especially paranoid to get pinned for being a "communist" based on their job description -THINKING. A majority of teachers and professors are thinkers. Explanation is they think for a living and you don't. Explanation is they have far more liberal thinking than the average person who does not divulge their life into books and shit. If you ever actually tried to argue with a professor, they will give you the benefit of the doubt by citing books and information. If your basing shit based on your own personal views, they will laugh at you. They are intellectuals and if your going to argue with them, get on their level of intellectualism. Otherwise, everything that I have learned from my professors have been cut dry. I've erased meaningless literature classes, and economic class lectures because a lecture is an idea of sorts coming from the professor, NOT from the actual information being divulged in the readings and texts. The point of college is to challenge your mind and the professor, not actually take everything from the professor as truth. As I told the other person who shut up with this point... I took the time to dissect all the information that was given to me by the professor, cite sources to contradict, and get good marks because I showed my intellectualism with someone of the same standard. If your that lazy of a student, then college admissions is getting too easy for idiots to get into.

There was no legitimate reason to go into Iraq. Republicans wanted 40,000 troops for a surge in Afghanistan, Obama sent 30,000. Again, Obama is attempting to solve three wars, a recession, as well as handle a heavily polarized house and senate due to Republican fear mongering.

If you talk to most soldiers who have been in Iraq, they will tell you there was absolutely no reason for them to start up in Iraq, and their focus should have been in Afghanistan. Are they proud to serve their country regardless? Of course, but they definitely disagreed with the actions taken to send all the man power to Iraq, and leave Afghanistan to a small amount of troops from all four branches. Now they are even more pissed off because Iraq is in disarray from poor execution and poor misguided intel and the country that should have been attacked (Afghanistan) is just now starting to get priority when it should have gotten immediate priority in 2003.

[Kavinsky]

Yeash you know the simplest way to put it is to use an old term, I'm a strict anti federalist.
Yes its not a perfect idea in this world but its certainly better than letting the goverment control everything.

I mean after all the last thing you want for anything is for someone with no interest in it to take it over and run it into the ground.


Which exactly is what the secretary of the treasury did with the banks, he told them to give morgages to people who couldnt possibly pay them back in the first place let alone with the interest rates tacked on and suprise suprise that backfired

God only knows whats going to happen next, but one things becoming more and more apparent both of these parties can't run the country for shit.

[gas.]

According to this poll 20% of Americans prefer Socialism to Capitalism, 53% of Americans outright prefer capitalism of Socialism, and 27% of Americans are unsure. This is after taking into consideration that Americans under 30, of which 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided, you begin to see a trend: there is a paradigm shift about to happen in American within the next 25 years. I have no doubt that there will be a socialist movement in America to replace the free-market way of thinking in our lifetimes.

I'd venture to guess that 70% of Americans don't even know what socialism actually entails, outside of whatever political pundits their idiocy leads them to follow.

These same people have no issue with their ability to call 911 for an emergency instead of a third-party company, as would happen in a true capitalist state. They also likely have no qualms about their option to send their children to a state/federally funded school or the fact that they'll pay taxes for said schools regardless to whether or not their children enroll there. Schools are the best parallel to a public option of health care as their should be a private option for those who want to pay more for preferred treatment. We're not even digging into the libraries, post office, road works, public works, etc.

Notice the inconsistencies? Every socialist style program implemented in this country was met with strong resistance at first, yet once the fruits of the endeavour come to light, it is generally regarded as the best option. Screaming out "socialism" or "communism" against something is nothing more than 70's style scare tactics as we've enough programs in today's society that fit that definition that it takes a generally uneducated person to point their finger at just one instance and disregard the others.

So you're required to own health insurance or get fined? Auto-insurance is required as well.. where is the anger directed at this? It's not so much to protect you, the driver, but the other drivers on the road as well as you'd likely not be able to afford the costs to the other vehicle's driver in an accident. Much like you having to pay into your own insurance in case something happens to you and it not being completely at the cost of other people's expense. We're already paying for other people's health care. Preventative care cuts costs. What is cheaper, paying for someone to go to the doctor when he has the sniffles or taking on the cost of his pneumonia treatment?

Though, I do think a private option should be available to people.

[Spasm]

"These same people have no issue with their ability to call 911 for an emergency instead of a third-party company, as would happen in a true capitalist state. They also likely have no qualms about their option to send their children to a state/federally funded school or the fact that they'll pay taxes for said schools regardless to whether or not their children enroll there. Schools are the best parallel to a public option of health care as their should be a private option for those who want to pay more for preferred treatment. We're not even digging into the libraries, post office, road works, public works, etc."

-- Actually I am for a capitalist school system. It would work wonders over our union based school system. It would actually bring competition into our education system which would improve the overall quality of our education. USPS is posting loss 7 billion last year alone (source http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/lo...blem/19379758/ Almost everything you have mentioned is failing. It WOULD be better under a pure capitalist society.

"Notice the inconsistencies? Every socialist style program implemented in this country was met with strong resistance at first, yet once the fruits of the endeavour come to light, it is generally regarded as the best option. Screaming out "socialism" or "communism" against something is nothing more than 70's style scare tactics as we've enough programs in today's society that fit that definition that it takes a generally uneducated person to point their finger at just one instance and disregard the others."

-- This is the reason why this great country is in the debt it is in. We get all these programs that we do not need. It makes more people feed off the system. Of course people are going to like it, who doesn't like "free" shit.

"Though, I do think a private option should be available to people. "

-- Won't happen, the government will put so much regulation on the insurnace companies that they will not even be able to stand a chance against a public option. I read today that insurance rates are expected to go up 200 to 300 percent just because of this bill.

"Not true. Especially after arguing heavily with this idiot who thought he knew about leftist shit. Back during the 50s with McCarthyism, college professors were especially paranoid to get pinned for being a "communist" based on their job description -THINKING. A majority of teachers and professors are thinkers. Explanation is they think for a living and you don't. Explanation is they have far more liberal thinking than the average person who does not divulge their life into books and shit. If you ever actually tried to argue with a professor, they will give you the benefit of the doubt by citing books and information. If your basing shit based on your own personal views, they will laugh at you. They are intellectuals and if your going to argue with them, get on their level of intellectualism. Otherwise, everything that I have learned from my professors have been cut dry. I've erased meaningless literature classes, and economic class lectures because a lecture is an idea of sorts coming from the professor, NOT from the actual information being divulged in the readings and texts. The point of college is to challenge your mind and the professor, not actually take everything from the professor as truth. As I told the other person who shut up with this point... I took the time to dissect all the information that was given to me by the professor, cite sources to contradict, and get good marks because I showed my intellectualism with someone of the same standard. If your that lazy of a student, then college admissions is getting too easy for idiots to get into."

-- Have you ever read about how the communist party came to power in the USSR? Communism is thought by the educated populas before it was implemented as the greatest social structure ever thought of.

-- And just for your information I have argued with professors citing several sources in a paper, which in turn resulted in me failing the course. They did not care. Don't assume your correct without experiencing it first.

[loka]

I'd venture to guess that 70% of Americans don't even know what socialism actually entails, outside of whatever political pundits their idiocy leads them to follow.

These same people have no issue with their ability to call 911 for an emergency instead of a third-party company, as would happen in a true capitalist state. They also likely have no qualms about their option to send their children to a state/federally funded school or the fact that they'll pay taxes for said schools regardless to whether or not their children enroll there. Schools are the best parallel to a public option of health care as their should be a private option for those who want to pay more for preferred treatment. We're not even digging into the libraries, post office, road works, public works, etc.

Notice the inconsistencies? Every socialist style program implemented in this country was met with strong resistance at first, yet once the fruits of the endeavour come to light, it is generally regarded as the best option. Screaming out "socialism" or "communism" against something is nothing more than 70's style scare tactics as we've enough programs in today's society that fit that definition that it takes a generally uneducated person to point their finger at just one instance and disregard the others.

So you're required to own health insurance or get fined? Auto-insurance is required as well.. where is the anger directed at this? It's not so much to protect you, the driver, but the other drivers on the road as well as you'd likely not be able to afford the costs to the other vehicle's driver in an accident. Much like you having to pay into your own insurance in case something happens to you and it not being completely at the cost of other people's expense. We're already paying for other people's health care. Preventative care cuts costs. What is cheaper, paying for someone to go to the doctor when he has the sniffles or taking on the cost of his pneumonia treatment?

Though, I do think a private option should be available to people.

I still don't have health insurance, and I'm very healthy. If i don't get it by April 1st, I will get fined by both federal and state 1,000 each I believe when I do my income taxes for 2010. If I decide to get health insurance once I get hurt or a serious problem occurs... I will get denied the most premium of coverage and get limited coverage. We pay for the health care of prisoners. Honestly, why? Why do we even feed them? Because the constitution and the bill of rights comes into play. So this is why whomever mentioned the constitution needs to learn what exactly the constitution and the bill of rights entails, and where exactly your money is going into.

[loka]

-- And just for your information I have argued with professors citing several sources in a paper, which in turn resulted in me failing the course. They did not care. Don't assume your correct without experiencing it first.

I haven't "assumed" anything dude. I have 2 college degrees, and made dean's list by what I said. Maybe your professors are really just as retarded.

[gas.]

-- Actually I am for a capitalist school system. It would work wonders over our union based school system. It would actually bring competition into our education system which would improve the overall quality of our education. USPS is posting loss 7 billion last year alone (source http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/lo...blem/19379758/ Almost everything you have mentioned is failing. It WOULD be better under a pure capitalist society.

The Post Office isn't failing because of any other issue than people don't send physical mail anymore. This isn't as if they're hemorrhaging money based on poor service or poor management. With any economic downturn, mail gets scaled back by users. Claiming this is a fault of the Post Office is rather unsubstantiated, if nothing other than an attempt to claim the system doesn't work.

Capitalist school systems would be a nightmare and would boil down to the same exact situation health care falls under: Those with money can afford the good schools and those without get stuck with some shitty schools. This is unacceptable. With this, no standardized curriculum and schools focusing on financial bottom line rather than educational ones.. this is shortsighted. I'm a libertarian and even I can see the shortcomings of a purely open market. It's simply unattainable as long as human nature's greed is involved.

The main issue facing public schools are the unions (like every other industry), not the system itself.

-- This is the reason why this great country is in the debt it is in. We get all these programs that we do not need. It makes more people feed off the system. Of course people are going to like it, who doesn't like "free" shit.

Hardly. These systems make up a very small percentage of the nation's budget. The real reason we're in debt is our continually overspending of military. How many years have we built vehicles that could no longer serve a purpose due to how future and current wars are fought? Instead you'd rather people starve off the system? Sounds like a plan. There simply aren't enough jobs to accommodate everyone having health care.

Though, I do think a private option should be available to people.

-- Won't happen, the government will put so much regulation on the insurnace companies that they will not even be able to stand a chance against a public option. I read today that insurance rates are expected to go up 200 to 300 percent just because of this bill.
[/quote]
Yes, just like private schools, FedEx and UPS have failed against the public option.. Right? This is pundit regurgitating.

Sure, premiums will go up (see how easily people can twist the facts?) but you'll get much more in return in ways of full coverage and better co-pays. Spending less for shitty coverage versus, spending double and getting much, much more? That's simple mathematics. With this bill you can actually shop around for better rates in a centralized hub -- how's that for capitalism at work?