ZM Stats Rework

[ZERO]

So it is time to make some changes to the stats. For those who forgot here is how things work now:

Humans Win: Everyone on ct team +5 bonus, Everyone on T team -5 bonus

Zombies Win: Everyone on T team +6 bonus

After that the points are variable depending on your rank and the player who you killed or tuned into a zombie relative to you. This part works exactly the same as it does in pub ranking. There is a weight added to the weapons to act as a multiplier for the rank amount normally awarded for a kill these are:

ak47	AK-47 Avtomat Kalashnikov	2.00	Assault Rifle
aug	Steyr Aug A1	2.00	Assault Rifle
awp	AI Arctic Warfare Magnum	0.50	Sniper
deagle	Desert Eagle .50AE	3.00	Pistol
elite	Dual Beretta 96G Elite	3.01	Pistol
famas	Clarion 5.56	2.25	Assault Rifle
fiveseven	FN Five-Seven	3.10	Pistol
flashbang	-		-
g3sg1	H&K G3/SG-1 Sniper Rifle	0.50	Sniper
galil	IDF Defender	2.25	Assault Rifle
glock	Glock18 Select Fire	3.50	Pistol
hegrenade	High Explosive Grenade	4.00	Thrown
knife	Bowie Knife	10.00	Melee
m249	FN M249 Para	1.25	Machine Gun
m3	Benelli M3 Super90	1.75	Shotgun
m4a1	Colt M4A1 Carbine	2.00	Assault Rifle
mac10	Ingram MAC-10	2.75	Submachine Gun
mp5navy	H&K MP5-Navy	2.50	Submachine Gun
p228	SIG P228	3.10	Pistol
p90	FN P90	1.75	Submachine Gun
prop_physics	-		-
prop_physics_multiplayer	-		-
scout	Steyr Scout	3.75	Sniper
sg550	Sig SG-550 Sniper	0.50	Sniper
sg552	Sig SG-552 Commando	2.00	Assault Rifle
smokegrenade_projectile	-		-
tmp	Steyr Tactical Machine Pistol	2.75	Submachine Gun
ump45	H&K UMP45	2.60	Submachine Gun
usp	H&K USP .45 Tactical	3.10	Pistol
xm1014	Benelli XM1014(M4 Super 90)	1.75	Shotgun
zombie_claws_of_death	ZOMBIE Attack	1.10	Melee

So let me start by saying that the section above be changed but I do not know what to yet. It will be based off the data we have in kills for all the weapons over the years. I think it will be more balanced if all the weapons multipliers are correctly relative to how often people are actually getting kills with those things. This will likely result in the point value of zombie_attack being reduced.

Now onto the main determiner of rank, the bonus points. Here is how the new system will work:

Humans Win: All alive humans get +10bonus, All zombies alive and dead get -10 (will track any who left game). For every 1% difference in the win ratio over 50% (51,52,53,54...) all alive humans will gain +1bonus

Zombies Win: All alive and dead zombies will get +5. All mother zombies will get +5 (will track any who left game). For every 1% difference in the win ratio over 50% (51,52,53,54...) all alive zombies will gain +1bonus



So here is the explanation: the new ranking makes it so that when a map is 50/50 humans winning is rewarded more than zombies winning. In other cases zombies winning rewarded almost as well as ct's winning. The best rewards are for the players on either team who actually make it to the end and beat the odds when stacked against them. Awarding mother zombies if their team wins properly rewards starting zombies but only when they are actually able to win. The reason for this is a starting zombies role to cause their team to win should be = to a human's role to win. This ranking system correctly rewards the role that mother zombies play.

In this system rank will largely be based on wins as it is now. However the new manor of distributing bonus points should prevent rank manipulation. In fact the system is designed to punish attempts to manipulate rank by better rewarding players who are actually spending time in the game playing and not trying to rejoin or who knows what in order to manipulate their rank.

Please post comments and questions below.

[NLA]

Since zombies have oodles of HP when they spawn, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing the ratio of points for nade kills increase from 4 to 5, so they're worth half as much as knife kills. And I always thought pump shotgun's ratio was too high, because the damage that can be inflicted to zombies with pump can be in the 400-700 HP range when crouched, so maybe it could decrease from 1.75 to 1.25 or something slightly lower to compensate for the massive damage? idk.

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The reason for this is a starting zombies role to cause their team to win should be = to a human's role to win. This ranking system correctly rewards the role that mother zombies play.

How do you come to the conclusion that humans' ability to win is = to zombies' ability to win? ZERO, you've decreased jump height of poisons in escapes, decreased speeds of the zombies (fast, predator xp), increased knockback on all zombie classes, and generally have tweaked the zombies to be incredibly inferior to humans over the past months (and years). How can they possibly be equal? Winning as zombie can really be an uphill battle, especially if humans aren't total idiots.

Why not reward that skill the same as the human players, who more often than not have an incredible advantage on all maps in the server, and certainly many of the ones that players vote and admins pick?

• A generous amount of time to set up and coordinate at the start of every round,
• long-range weapons with reasonable damage levels,
• fire grenades that can last up to 40-50 seconds,
• zombies that give an audible moan to give away location, and
• barricades that can't always be pulled apart with zombie push/pull..

..humans tend to have the odds stacked in their favor, and it just keeps getting harder and harder for zombies as ZERO continues to tweak the zombie settings. The zombie side of things seems fine as it is, in my opinion, at least.

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In this system rank will largely be based on wins as it is now. However the new manor of distributing bonus points should prevent rank manipulation. In fact the system is designed to punish attempts to manipulate rank by better rewarding players who are actually spending time in the game playing and not trying to rejoin or who knows what in order to manipulate their rank.

Also, it used to be that you could only join a round as a zombie if-and-only-if you joined the game late, and only joined late during the first minute or so. And that if you were playing, left and returned, you were slayed for playing the same round twice. Is this not still the case? This should be enough to deter anyone that would try to "abuse" rank.. although this scenario is really not an example of rank abuse at all.

Seeing as how you recently disabled zspawn (ie. allowed to join late into a round), how do you think players are still abusing rank? The only option left to players at this point is to wander to the edge of a cade, get tagged, and tag everyone in the cade. This seems like something that should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis by the admins, and could incur up to a week-long ban by admins as a proper punishment. Why punish all zombies by making their effort not worth as much?

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Also, can you explain this part?

For every 1% difference in the win ratio over 50% (51,52,53,54...) all alive zombies will gain +1bonus

In the win ratio, or just the human-zombie player ratio? Seeing as how zombies can only win by totally overtaking the human team, and humans win by default when the round timer expires, how would this happen?

[Chef C Green]

Although I agree that pump shotty does do a significant amount of damage, I feel that the automatic weapons are more of an issue. Pump has dropped significantly in effectiveness knock-back against zombies (IMO), but I think Pl@y will have more thoughtful input on that aspect?

Para... I would really like to see this go down to at least 1.00 (preferably 0.75-ish?). Reason being, this weapon has a LOT of power, a LOT of rounds, and when you get 2-3 BAD players in a crouch spot with these, you're pretty much guarenteed the round. The change isn't necessarily because I see a good deal of people using it to climb in rank, but rather to encourage people to NOT go for the B.F.G. EVERY SINGLE ROUND. If you're trying to get back some of the challenge of the old days, this should be looked into IMO (ya'know, those days when 4-5 players would go into the crouch tunnel on zm_snoopie and hold back zombies with TMP's.... *sigh*).

Zombie_claws could be reduced by half given the current system in place, but you may want to try a 20-30% reduction first. Reason being, the "Beating the Odds" mod should really encourage more cooperation with humans, we won't have to deal with players jumping in mid-game on escape maps to get points, and those alone should really help balance out the current situation. I think a lot of these stats will need to be altered after we see how the new mod affects players (hopefully in a positive way ).

Not much to say on the BTO mod really, I think it sounds amazing to be honest. Really looking forward to seeing it on the server and getting people more in the "coop" mind-set as opposed to the "be on top" mind-set. As always, great thoughts, and appreciate the work going into ZMOD development ^_^.

[THE HOLY SH**T!]

Sounds good, weapon classes are just perfect with the points given adjusted. Now people will have to work together too win more challenging maps and with the skill being awarded to those who win, it should be interesting too see how other players react to the current changes.

Zombie claws are just fine the way they are, there is nothing wrong with the points awarded towards a human kill as a zombie. Weapons are pretty accurate in the skill base they give out, with a zombie attack being at just 1 and a machine gun a 1.25 they are low enough too not really cause a big difference or high enough to really distraught the stats.

Edit: In addition make "purposely getting tagged" by a zombie illegal. Some players use this to get around and some can get 5-10 zombie kills a round if they are a very good zombie. This ultimately makes it worth getting tagged and taking the 1 death aswell. With the adjustment to the way the server awards rank points, players cannot purposely get tagged to be on the "winning" team. For some players, We can get 7 kills atleast every round. Sometimes we can hit 15-20 if it's a full server, so to reduce people purposely getting tag to ruin the game-play would better the game-play itself. Besides, I could be a dick every round and get tagged purposely, it would just end up bad for everyone-else 98% of the time.

[ZERO]

I think where your all getting confused is the system will look at the % chance a team has to win on a given map based off that maps stats.

For example when humans win on zm_ATIX_helicopter each human that is alive at the end would get +24 bonus points on top of the +10 normally awarded.

When zombies win on that map they only get +5 unless you were a mother zombie and then you get a total of +10.

In zm_tx_highschoolbeta7 when zombies win they get an extra +16 bonus points where as humans winning only get +10 if they are alive.

In zm_little_town for example when the zombies win they will get +41 bonus points where as humans only get +10.

A key to remember is that bonus points for humans are only for the humans that actually are still alive at the end of round. Where as zombie points are for everyone who turned into a zombie at any point during that round.

[Chef C Green]

@Holy, I HIGHLY doubt making "purposely getting tagged" as a rule is going to go well... with all the stuff dealing with Rank Manipulation, it's a case-by-case basis that can have many interpretations (even when demos are present as you have shown us through past bans made on you). What seems like getting tagged on purpose to one person, is showing off to try and kill a zombie (and failing) to another. Basically, it should be under the admins' responsibility to determine if it warrants taking action against.

For instance, if a new player is sitting at spawn and not moving, happens to get tagged, and then winds up getting 10 kills, I'll look the other way (mainly because it's someone not normally seen on the server and it's 1 round). If it progresses further and becomes a trend across rounds/maps, then he's going to get warned/kicked/and banned for rank manipulation. Making a separate rule for it could cause admins to look for it happening when it's not there, OR try and justify abuse with it.

@Zero, makes sense, still have no objections to the idea.

[Steamer]

Para... I would really like to see this go down to at least 1.00 (preferably 0.75-ish?). Reason being, this weapon has a LOT of power, a LOT of rounds, and when you get 2-3 BAD players in a crouch spot with these, you're pretty much guarenteed the round. The change isn't necessarily because I see a good deal of people using it to climb in rank, but rather to encourage people to NOT go for the B.F.G. EVERY SINGLE ROUND. If you're trying to get back some of the challenge of the old days, this should be looked into IMO (ya'know, those days when 4-5 players would go into the crouch tunnel on zm_snoopie and hold back zombies with TMP's.... *sigh*).

I disagree with this. They take FOREVER to reload, one person messes up a reload time and GG. You have no time to reload this weapon with zombies coming after you. It's already the lowest scaled usable weapon.
Claws definitely need a reduction, Dualies as well.
The deagle should be scaled over the dualies, it is a way more risky gun in ZM.
Nades and Knives need to be bumped up a tad.

There is a huge difference with claws as zombie kills and human kills with weapons, the zombie is gonna be getting way more kills, at least I always do.

I still like the map idea. Should promote teamwork, and the regs should help more noobs get good. Especially the rank whoring ones that want them points.

The new zspawn is a lot better than it was, however, I still do enjoy the idea of a complete disable.

[Pl@YwithM3]

And I always thought pump shotgun's ratio was too high, because the damage that can be inflicted to zombies with pump can be in the 400-700 HP range when crouched, so maybe it could decrease from 1.75 to 1.25 or something slightly lower to compensate for the massive damage? idk.

400-700 while crouched..thats noob damage
in the last major update (from at least what i remember) they decreased its range accuracy and increased its damage output to compensate. so they pretty much made it so ct's needed to have balls and fucking good reaction time if they wanted to actually be effective and stay alive using the shotgun (meaning like litterally as close as 1ft away from a zombie if not right on you) - now the average idiot in zm will buy a pump shotty an try to be a badass by sniping with it while obviously getting minimal damage or missing alltogether,. its a high risk weapon and i say a person who gets a legitiment zombie kill with one DESERVES that crappy 1.75 point increase. NOT TO MENTION THAT EVEN AFTER YOU PUT HUNDREDS OF DAMAGE INTO A ZOMBIE WITH A SHOTGUN SOME FAG WITH A SPRAY GUN WILL FINISH OFF THE ZOMBIE AND STEAL YOUR KILL 90% OF THE TIME ANYWAYS

Although I agree that pump shotty does do a significant amount of damage, I feel that the automatic weapons are more of an issue. (+ 1 chef) Pump has dropped significantly in effectiveness knock-back against zombies (IMO), but I think Pl@y will have more thoughtful input on that aspect?

i only dissagree to the point of it depends on whos shooting it. one good close ranged blast to the face (if you can manage it) WILL send a zombie flying...unless theyre doing that whole crouchjumping whoreshit, then yeah you might as well just throw your fucking gun at them no matter what kind it is...most of the time at least. - theres my input for u chef.

zero - i suggest lower p90 down to 1.50 / lower zombie tag down to .50 / increase grenade to 5 / ADD THE AWP!!! - everything else looks fine

[THE HOLY SH**T!]

I disagree with this. They take FOREVER to reload, one person messes up a reload time and GG. You have no time to reload this weapon with zombies coming after you. It's already the lowest scaled usable weapon.
Claws definitely need a reduction, Dualies as well.
The deagle should be scaled over the dualies, it is a way more risky gun in ZM.
Nades and Knives need to be bumped up a tad.

There is a huge difference with claws as zombie kills and human kills with weapons, the zombie is gonna be getting way more kills, at least I always do.

I still like the map idea. Should promote teamwork, and the regs should help more noobs get good. Especially the rank whoring ones that want them points.

The new zspawn is a lot better than it was, however, I still do enjoy the idea of a complete disable.

Pretty much agree with everything, but I don't see a need to reduce the zombie attack with the increase in the server's future rewarding system for living as a human / zombie. We have a 43 player server, kills on the server are usually spread out pretty evenly; more often on escapes.

[Steamer]

but I don't see a need to reduce the zombie attack with the increase in the server's future rewarding system for living as a human / zombie. We have a 43 player server, kills on the server are usually spread out pretty evenly; more often on escapes.

Kind of agree. Time will tell with that one.

We tested the AWP/AUTO (No fucking way.) long ago when everyone was cool and Zero actually let us do things. There was an update years ago that screwed it with ZM. It sends the zombies hurling across the fucking map at retarded distances. Ahh... I remember when we didn't have restricted weapon pickups, only buyable restricted, leave it to abusers to fuck that up... I do however remember when he raged about playing hide and seek with the server invisible... LULZ.