011 Molecule [160] v1.0.6

[CYBER]

Why in the fuck would you even consider lace worth three slots? its an essential item that you need to have or you're gonna be fucked.

I think his logic behind it was to break the lace health claw combo +shotty on jacks.

i did question why a lace would take out 3 slots if it's the most essential item... and after a while of thinking, i agree with it being multiple-slots. THE FACT IS, BECAUSE it's the most essential item, it should take a couple slots at least, as opposed the other weak items like sock, ring, mask, boot, orb, gloves, antiward, etc, because IF you really need the lace, it will take [xxx...] slots, and then u can fill the rest with either high level items, or 3 low level items.

if the lace is 1 slot, u will ALWAYS see someone with [x.....] that buys FIVE more items including the ability to constantly heal and regen and cloak etc...
IF someone wants to run around with SIX items on them, they will need to sacrifice buying a lace... now sometimes a lace can be ignored if there are no athenas/nightelf/shadowhunter/vagas in game, but u'll be taking a huge risk if someone swapped to those and made u lose all ur items bcos u got greedy.

HOWEVER, i cant say that "3" is the best number, MAYBE "2"... it needs testing, everything needs testing. there needs to be a way to break the lace health helm on human ( 2+3+3=8>6 this definitely prevents it), and the lace health claws on jack (2+3+2=7>6 this breaks it too), and allow more variable builds.

helm is the ONLY item GUARANTEED to be a 3-slot item because it's a luxury item that is usually added on top of any build.
personally i would love to see lace and health at 2-slots, while claws cat and helm go up to 3.

[What]

Lace is essential, I feel like we already did this song and dance somewhere else. When weighted slots do make an appearance, the only fair thing to do is to make it one slot. You need a lace, its not an advantage, its a defense, and essential nearly every round you play. It really is that simple.

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And helm should be 2 slot max, 3 slot would make it completely unused by 99% of the people, which is fucking stupid, you need to be able to have a lace and at least 1 other "good" item. No item should be 3 slots, ever.

[CYBER]

Lace is essential, I feel like we already did this song and dance somewhere else. When weighted slots do make an appearance, the only fair thing to do is to make it one slot. You need a lace, its not an advantage, its a defense, and essential nearly every round you play. It really is that simple.

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And helm should be 2 slot max, 3 slot would make it completely unused by 99% of the people, which is fucking stupid, you need to be able to have a lace and at least 1 other "good" item. No item should be 3 slots, ever.

READ What... What pass posted was under the asumption of SIX slots, not the three u think.

[What]

There is no reason to go to a 6 slot system in an effort to make things more confusing, people are complaining about combinations that have been used for years, and if it is really that big of an issue, you just need to limit the health/helm combo, which is easily accomplished without making an entirely new system.

[Passarelli]

I chose that as an example. Also, I thought 3 was decent balance in a 6 slot system. You can do decently without a lace if you learn how to counter things without it. It would also mean you had to make a hard choice and mean that ultimates are still somewhat useful after the first 4 rounds (where almost everyone has a lace).

Keep in mind that I only thought of this after cyber made the comment about weighting helm to take up 2 slots rather then 1. I agree that it would be much simpler to simply restrict the item on some races. This method, however, would also add another layer of asymmetric balance.

Helm and Health should definitely take 3 slots. Personally, I think lace should also be 3, but 2 would be fine. This would make it so you would actually see people buying orb or mask much more, and less people grabbing helm, health, or lace.

I understand some of those items are cheaper, but when 90% of people buy helm, health, and lace, with the 9% of the remaining buy 2 out of the 3, it tends to show that they are much more desired and thus forcing the player to make a hard choice out of 2 or the 3, or buying 1 a weak item and a midrange, or all midrange/weak items. Ideal balance would be making each of the items as desirable as each of the others.

I also like this design better then the one I have heard floated of making an item that makes you immune to the effects of other's laces for 10-15 seconds, like an antiward. However, even this could fit if you make it take 6 slots and thus clear all other items in your inventory.

By the way, it isn't specifically helm and health that are overpowered. It's that if you have both of those plus a lace, you greatly limit the ways someone can actually kill you to the point of absurdness. This only means that even more people will use that combo and it becomes a vicious cycle and hardly any of the other items get any love at all.

[Erdenay]

I chose that as an example. Also, I thought 3 was decent balance in a 6 slot system. You can do decently without a lace if you learn how to counter things without it. It would also mean you had to make a hard choice and mean that ultimates are still somewhat useful after the first 4 rounds (where almost everyone has a lace).

Keep in mind that I only thought of this after cyber made the comment about weighting helm to take up 2 slots rather then 1. I agree that it would be much simpler to simply restrict the item on some races. This method, however, would also add another layer of asymmetric balance.

Helm and Health should definitely take 3 slots. Personally, I think lace should also be 3, but 2 would be fine. This would make it so you would actually see people buying orb or mask much more, and less people grabbing helm, health, or lace.

I understand some of those items are cheaper, but when 90% of people buy helm, health, and lace, with the 9% of the remaining buy 2 out of the 3, it tends to show that they are much more desired and thus forcing the player to make a hard choice out of 2 or the 3, or buying 1 a weak item and a midrange, or all midrange/weak items. Ideal balance would be making each of the items as desirable as each of the others.

I also like this design better then the one I have heard floated of making an item that makes you immune to the effects of other's laces for 10-15 seconds, like an antiward. However, even this could fit if you make it take 6 slots and thus clear all other items in your inventory.

By the way, it isn't specifically helm and health that are overpowered. It's that if you have both of those plus a lace, you greatly limit the ways someone can actually kill you to the point of absurdness. This only means that even more people will use that combo and it becomes a vicious cycle and hardly any of the other items get any love at all.

I'd have to disagree here with most people only buying those 3 specific items. Most higher tier players (more experienced) tend to buy claw quite often and I'd say if it does lag behind the other 3 items, it's not very significant. At the same time, ring and cloak (to a lesser extent even socks/orb) are not that uncommon as they are all very powerful items. While health/helm combination is indeed too strong and should be restricted in some way, this is not necessarily the fact that specific other items are much weaker. The main reason why health/lace/helm is the most common combination because it is a very defencive combination that tends to lead to higher survival odds, but at the same time the offencive combinations in the right hands can be equally if not more disastrous (think Masskid as Human with lace (or ring), claw and orb / Spasm as Jack with lace, claw, cloak / etc. ).

In all honesty, I think that it's not really that specific combinations break the game - it's more so the fact that some restrictions that should possible be in the mod are not actually there. However, at the same time, we all know the concept of perfect imbalance and roughly understand Zero's position on most changes, so... Yeah. Good luck.

[Passarelli]

...Keep in mind that I only thought of this after cyber made the comment about weighting helm to take up 2 slots rather then 1. I agree that it would be much simpler to simply restrict the item on some races...

The only reason I thought of this type of system is because I think it wouldn't be fair to make helm take 2 out of 3 slots but health would still be 1. Helm isn't that OP except on specific races. Health isn't that op except on specific races. It isn't even that OP to have both items except on specific races. Molecule especially for much the same reason Helm is restricted on Spiderman.

[Locust]

I'd have to disagree here with most people only buying those 3 specific items. Most higher tier players (more experienced) tend to buy claw quite often and I'd say if it does lag behind the other 3 items, it's not very significant. At the same time, ring and cloak (to a lesser extent even socks/orb) are not that uncommon as they are all very powerful items. While health/helm combination is indeed too strong and should be restricted in some way, this is not necessarily the fact that specific other items are much weaker. The main reason why health/lace/helm is the most common combination because it is a very defencive combination that tends to lead to higher survival odds, but at the same time the offencive combinations in the right hands can be equally if not more disastrous (think Masskid as Human with lace (or ring), claw and orb / Spasm as Jack with lace, claw, cloak / etc. ).

In all honesty, I think that it's not really that specific combinations break the game - it's more so the fact that some restrictions that should possible be in the mod are not actually there. However, at the same time, we all know the concept of perfect imbalance and roughly understand Zero's position on most changes, so... Yeah. Good luck.

Ive also started to take claws instead of helm on a fair amount of races. Honestly if there's flying races around I'll almost always take a claw over a helm on human. Molecule I'll take claw most of the time because with the evasion and the bubble you have survivability and in extra damage and it's hilariously good and if I don't take claw I'll take mask.

[Masskid]

Ive also started to take claws instead of helm on a fair amount of races. Honestly if there's flying races around I'll almost always take a claw over a helm on human. Molecule I'll take claw most of the time because with the evasion and the bubble you have survivability and in extra damage and it's hilariously good and if I don't take claw I'll take mask.

I take Claw instead of helm because it allows the other person to overwhelm me with skill. If you aim at my head and shoot me in the head good for you. I'm not about to take your aiming skill/luck away from you.

[kionay]

ITT: completely irrelevant item strategies for me to spend my money on

because no matter what items i have i'm so bad at the game i die quickly irregardless

nevertheless, maybe there should be a second lace, that's more expensive, that takes up 2 or 3 slots, but has a wider range (or possibly an unhide %chance for vagas)

then again this surely won't happen since it really would mess with Wolfenstinger the most :-/