A Few Ideas/Things That Need Fixing

[Blackmage]

6 there NEVER will be fair teams in WCS, as people constantly change races the game it's self constantly changes... it's basically like chess.. and there is no way 2 keep things fair. 1 team will always be doing better than the other, those on the losing team should buck up, switch races 2 something they do good with, and fight harder, not qq constantly.

While I agree that it will never be fair, what we have right now is closer to a game of Magic than a game of chess. Like I said before, once someone starts winning consistently, it starts snowballing in their favour. Often times it's due to player skill, or lack thereof, and not races. Unless the teams are helped, there is little to nothing you can do to fix that. The better players will beat the worse players. When the best players on the other team have necklace, Periapt/vampire and helm, and the opposite team can only afford a ahnk so they have a gun, there's very little you can do. Right now, in the free gun department, we have hell hunter, vagabond, magician, and psuedo-Archmage. A 1-per team, pistols, a shotgun, and sometimes an M4. There's also Flame Pred, but he has a hard time dealing with most problem races. Once jack and dragonfly are released, guns are less of a problem, as you consistently have good guns, and on useful races. But, as the current free gun set is limited, and there are few limits on items, that leads to snowbally games rather than a chess game.

even if we implemented something that would auto correct the teams, it would be constantly then switching people which would be uber fucking annoying. when someone is in a grove on WCS, you don't autoforce team switch them and fuck with there flow cause the other team is playing like shit. ive seen VERY few people in my entire time on WCS bitch about unfair teams and all that shit and it's normally the same 5 people who do it, my advice is 2 buck up, 1 person can easily change the tide of the game just by picking a cheap race like shadow hunter or what not....

As for auto-correction, I hope we don't have something that tries to compensate every round. I agree, that would probably do more harm than good. What I'd like is something that doesn't give the best player from a losing team, or the worst player from a winning team. I'd also like to see something to try and stop people from going out of their way to team stack. However, I'd gladly fuck over someone's groove to have a good game. Mainly, because if they are bad enough that playing on the losing team messes them up that much, they are probably just profiting from bad teams in the first place. Other than the money issues I mentioned before, there is very little reason there groove should be thrown off. Also, should we ruin the groove of someone who is trying to work with his team when his team feels rambo is a good way to win? Why should the winning team have special privileges more than it already gets?

With the "one person can make all the difference", not so much with scrolls at 3000, and people who know how to use them. Shadow hunter is a one and a half trick pony, and less if he has to get to the objectives. Just getting speed (Spidey), usually helps with the worse players who can't aim. If you're being snowballed, most other tricks are laughed at by the necklace almost everyone on the other team has. Yeah, you can easily kill the weaker players, but when you're dealing with 2 or 3 lives of the better players, one person makes a dent more often than a difference. The only race, right now, that I see that adage being true for is vagabond. A good one will help win, a piss poor one (such as myself) is a hindrance.

you also don't get better at CS by being on the winning team.
...
Another thing that drastically changes what team wins is which team isn't just buying tomes instead of guns constantly...

You also don't get better at CS when you get killed before you leave your base or, sometimes, are done purchasing your items (some people don't have every item memorized/have huge APM). It would probably be easier to count the number of maps that CAN'T happen on. The Tome comment is actually mostly outdated. Over the past few weeks, people haven't been buying tomes over guns. Tomes usually come out of extra money. When it does start happening, though, it's quite true.

look at it this way... and this happens all the time.. if you take 1 team that's playing together, utilizing the races 2 the best of their ability 2 win, and then have them against a team that's just playing whatever character they haven't lvld yet, and not displaying or doing any team work... well it's obvious that the 1 team is going 2 stomp them, it's not fair in any way 2 start playing fantasy football pick with them, 2 make the team that's not really trying, better. it's unfair 2 the winning team, and those who are actually playing smart. .

I agree. If you have the people who have 200 total levels and enough xp in a race to have leveled 5 races to max on one team, and the people who are leveling all their races and new players on the other team, unless there is a LOT of skill on the low team, it's going to be a land-slide. As for being "unfair", that's subjective. If I wanted that kind of "fairness" I'd go pub-stomp. I'm usually looking for a good game, and a lop-sided game is "unfair" for both sides. Is it fair that often times these "teams that are going to stomp them" come from deliberate team stacking? Or is that just smart fantasy football picks?



Mostly, though, I'd like a few small fixes in the team balance thing, the rest of the races added, and a few glitches fixed. Give me vagalion, and I'm not worried about vagabond anymore. Give me Jack and athena and Spider man is a joke. Get rid of Raiden's bazooka. Let undead leech to a safer point and not have to get hurt to use his lifesteal. I'd also like to have some races have their item options looked at, but that would take testing.

Tl;dr: Finish getting the server back to where it was. Fairness is subjective, I find a good game to be fair and team stacking to be unfair.

it seemed like far less damage went out than now.

While some things are different now, I actually find the damage, gross, to be about the same. It mostly depends on who is playing what, and it's always varied like that.

I don't like that idea, because I don't think vagabond needs another advantage :P

[maynard]

When the best players on the other team have necklace, Periapt/vampire and helm, and the opposite team can only afford a ahnk so they have a gun, there's very little you can do

the starting races pwwn. Human is Epic... undead kinda sucks since the new CS... it takes no time or skill 2 lvl them, and you can easily lvl the starting races and unlock Shadowhunter which pwwns everything. if you're smart with shadowhunter you can stop just about everything, even if they have ward protection. and that's why we have that race at such a low lvl, so lowbies can have a pwwnage race and when things get tough jump on.. there's also no limit, multiple shadowhunters working together can be damn scary.

Other than the money issues I mentioned before, there is very little reason there groove should be thrown off

that's bullshit and I say this outta expierence.. nothing pisses me off more than when I'm ripping the server apart, and ETB decides 2 throw me into the other team... it throws of my mental balance, my focus and how ive been going about things and generally will impact my ratio. Like any smart/ good player I watch what my team does round after round and I adjust how I'm going 2 play based on how the team as a whole is acting. when you just get plunked into the other team, it completely throws you off balance. I'm not saying it's impossible 2 continue 2 do good if you get team switched, just saying it's really annoying.

scrolls at 3000

I do agree scrolls should be raised. 2 atleast a minimum of 5k

You also don't get better at CS when you get killed before you leave your base

I would suggest the person stops sucking then? it takes 1 time for someone 2 get 2 your base harsh fast, and then you obviously know it's gonna most likely happen again... so keep your witts about. just cause someone can move fast, doesn't mean their aim is improved at all and given your entire team should be basically all around you... well yeah...

killed before you leave your base or, sometimes, are done purchasing your items

Lol there's 5 seconds at the beginning of every round, that is beyond enough time 2 buy the gun you need, it's counter strike, come on Lol there's jack shit for gun selection and if you die you got generally several minutes 2 think of what you're going 2 try and do the next round. if you get taken out before you're done buying your weapons then you only have yourself 2 blame. there's like 2 maps on the server where that could even really play out well. I know that house map you can get across it quick, but come on... people are stupid mage, they will know a vegabond is racing 2 their base every round, but wont actually change their gameplay 2 counter it, they will still run 1 direction, never look around them or take measures 2 prevent getting pwwnd... and then they just bitch when they die... people need 2 start playing WCS as it was intended 2 be played, not complain constantly cause it's hard for them 2 lvl their races in peace and what not...

If you have the people who have 200 total levels and enough xp in a race to have leveled 5 races to max on one team, and the people who are leveling all their races and new players on the other team, unless there is a LOT of skill on the low team

unless the other team is all like lvl 5 noobs, there is no excuse. even a lvl 10 human can pwwn and it takes jack shit 2 get any race up 2 lvl 10. and once again there's the shadowhunter pwwnage factor...

"teams that are going to stomp them" come from deliberate team stacking? Or is that just smart fantasy football picks?

dude the teams are completely random each and every map... they are what they are, people should just roll with it and not bitch whenever they are on a losing team... the teams arent pre planed, and every 1 joines at once and grabs a seat where they can. so no clue what you're going about given the teams are 100% random every map.... some people lean 2 either CT or T constantly, like myself, I prefer T, but that's hardly stacking or doing anything 2 insure 1 team is better than the other...

the rest of the races added,

Hell yeah!

I couldn't agree more on getting the server back 2 where it was. I do fully agree with us not having all the races out it can end up sucking and being unfair/balanced due 2 there not being the proper counter classes available... but what I'm saying is we need 2 get the server back 2 where it was, and focus on that. I liked the idea of someting that would prevent people from team swapping/stascking 2 take advanatge of being on the winning team... but I think overall people should just buck up... None of you have ever once heard me qq about being on the losing team ,and I on my own have changed the tide in the game more times than I can cont and have hundreds of screen pics 2 prove it. I'm not trying 2 come off as a self centered ass or something.. my point is that any 1 can do it! if people spent less time qqing, and just played the game and when things were hard sat up in there chair, communicated with their team, and made steps towards changing how things were going, people would have a better time, but I never see this, I just see people QQ and nothing more, and 70% of the time it's cause they want 2 lvl a race and not be bothered while doing it, or have 2 worry about getting pwwnd and that's complete bull shit. if I can do it, you all can 2.

[Blackmage]

Just a couple of things.

Shadow hunter has become more or less a one trick puppy. It's less and less game changing, and there's less and less bitching about it, cause people have finally figured out how to deal with it. Not because of changes, but, as you said, people bucked up and figured it out Necklace/stopping running into every fight like a moron, mostly. That, or camp the objective. Now, if only more people would learn to deal with Blood mage... How hard is it to camp a body for a couple of seconds?

And if you think the teams are totally random, next time, wait at the start of a map. Watch how many people sit in spec and wait for a slot to open on team A. I'm not talking about people like ronnie, who aims for T every time, or someone making sure they can have vaga. There are people who wait until good player X or bad player Y join a team before they choose. Or the people who wait till round 1 is done, and end up on the team that just won.

Now, this doesn't happen every time, usually after large game that ended in a landslide.

Finally, the people who are stuck buying stuff at the start of a round are the people I'm talking about. The people who have to get better at CS :P

[maynard]

Shadow hunter has become more or less a one trick puppy. It's less and less game changing, and there's less and less bitching about it, cause people have finally figured out how to deal with it.

I dunno man... ive become more active on CS as of late, and in the last few days alone ive just destroyed people using it lol... I don't think people have really evolved as much as you're giving them credit for.

but, as you said, people bucked up and figured it out

hardly.

There are people who wait until good player X or bad player Y join a team before they choose

that's a complaint more geared towards the game designer, not zero, this community or the mod in general. that's how CS has always been on almost any server.

Finally, the people who are stuck buying stuff at the start of a round are the people I'm talking about. The people who have to get better at CS :P

ofcourse. Christ, if you're a competent CS player you should be able 2 rock a glock or USB and at the very least break a even score wise.