Gideon's suggestions for an even better server

[Blackmage]

I'm not going to put words in Aco's mouth, but, I believe a part of his response is because we've discussed many of these topics before, some on numerous occasions. The lack of XP rewards is balanced by the flat xp requirement, for example. The list of things people want added to the server is already huge, and only gets longer while we wait for the server to get back to it's former standing.

1.a&b. This is all known and will hopefully be taken into consideration when Zero has the time to do such things. There are threads (at least one) that deal with this topic.

On the topic of balance: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...at-Need-Fixing

c. If this was a deathmatch server, it might mean more, but the scoreboard doesn't even know 99% of what happens in the game, so, it's only for e-peen. It only takes into consideration Kills, Bombs, Defuses and Rounds won. Stars just mean that a player was on the winning team and killed the most and often wins the tiebreak or the dieroll, not sure how it figures out ties, or finished the objective. Given teams change, players leave, people inflate their scores killing afks or lose scores by suiciding for a variety of reasons. It doesn't know that the blood mage revived everyone on the team, the crypt lord nibbled everyone on the other team, the vagabond scouted and gave the information that allowed your teamates to kill the enemy. The shadow hunter that forced the enemy to go the long way and stop the defusal. Not even just WCS has this problem, the guy who does 90 damage to 4 people and dies without killing one of them. The one who is at the other bomb site when it's planted and gets half the other team to go to the wrong site. It's a team game, while you might be the best person on your team score-wise, that just means you got a lot of kills, it doesn't mean you're the best player, or even useful. I can go more in depth in the problems with judging a game just by it's scoreboard, and games such as CS:S which do just that. It's why I love psychostats.

2. a. I agree with no incentive to winning, another option would be a disincentive for losing, but either way, it requires some looking at server and xp balance overall. We also have discussions of this in a couple places IIRC. An example disincentive from another WCS, losing team is slayed end of the round.

Response to maynard: In the situation where there are 5 of them and one of me, as I'm probably not going to win, it's better not to try and win, but to try and kill as many of them as I can. If I win this way, so much the better. If I kill even one of them, I've almost made the difference of XP from the tome I could have got from winning if it's the minimum xp gain (2K vs 3.5K, gaining 30 vs the 100). If the bomb's planted or I'm T and the CTs have the hosties, it's better to stay alive and not bother with the objective, as then I don't even need to buy a gun. If I've got a vagabond on the other team and the bomb's down in an open area, I may just spend the rest of the time trying to hunt the SOB down. If it's a map vaga is stupid good on, and he's planted the bomb (dolls or deathcookin) I'm going to try and find the vaga, and fail, rather than die to him stupidly. There are more scenarios if you want, but, we have no good reason to try and win when the odds are against you.

b. Agreed with it being annoying. I'd love some assist rewards, but it would also take some looking at IMO, for balance and for what constitutes an assist. Such as, he shoots me while you're mowing him down. I'm a Night Elf and he takes one damage from me. Do I get the assist. Or, I shoot him, he evades it and takes no damage, you kill him, as that damage is still shown, do I get the assist? How long prior to death does damage give you an assist. How many players can get the assist. Is assist XP flat or based upon the XP received by the killer, or based upon the xp you'd get for killing them.

c. As these would change certain types of gameplay, again, would need some looking at balance-wise.

3.It is possible to adapt to all-talk. If you want to use it strategically, there are certain ways, such as sowing disinformation, making vague comments, ect. You see this all the time when the bomb is planted

4. a. http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...944#post108944

Also, #4 here: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...2240-WCS-Rules

as for b, Ibis rules all left open to interpretation all over the place. There are some set in stone rules, but, most are just general consensus, and that's how they're enforced. I agree with wanting some things more clearly stated, but much of it is stated as it is on purpose.

5. I'd say this is something to bring up elsewhere, not really a WCS-only problem IMO. As such, no comment.

6. I agree with "all admin interaction doesn't have to be negative" and it isn't always, having a drug round for example, can be fun. Not sure on rewarding players for doing something, as admins are just players who are paying for a privilege, so they would need to be eligible too, and in any case, someone would find some way to make it abuse.

7. This, again, is more of a IBIS problem, not just WCS, and probably should be taken up elsewhere. As it has to do with the finances of the server as well, I really have nothing useful to say about it.

[maynard]

the truth and end result is until all the races are re-released, and restored 2 their former glory, there is nothing wroth doing.... our WCS server was off the fucking hook last year before Valve fucked the game and many mods over.... once we restore that, we can work on other things.

[Blackmage]

What's the harm in discussing what we'd like to see? For all we know, we might give Zero some inspiration or find some glaring error or something missing in the rules. Much of it will probably be shot down for one reason or another, but picking the brains of the community can sometimes lead to a few gems, or better ways to do old things. We also might have an idea that has some merit, but needs to be changed for one reason or another, so rather than wait for D-Day to start throwing ideas at the world, why not try to iron them out in the meantime?

[maynard]

I never said there was any harm in anything.. I simply said what our current goals are, and what needs 2 be done before we can expand and go past just the re-release of the races....

[Blackmage]

Ah, ok, I interpreted "there is nothing wroth doing" as saying these threads were pointless. My mistake.