SO yes Controversy: ABORTION

[Curdy]

urghhhhhhhh depressing....

[Superman]

I agree with most of you, its up to the woman though I don't personal agree with it unless extreme circumstances. IE: Rape, molestation (family). Thats about it. These people who abort cause they can't shut their legs or because their child will have defects are murders. Cheers

[loka]

blahblahblah woman's right. blahblahblah men feel dicked about the woman's right. blahblahblah use a fucking condom or close your legs.

[dice]

I don't see why its anybody's business but the mother's. I'm a libertarian so pro-choice pisses my conservative buddies off.. but they'll never know what women go through because they're men. The fact that this is a center stage debate at this point in our "free" country's history is insulting to the framework on which we began.

To be clear: I don't like abortion at all. I think personally that its wrong and I'd never let my seed be slain in the womb. But that's me. What other people do is none of my goddamned business, or the gov's. =]

[loka]

dice, your post made me lol a bit because it always seems men are the majority who are against abortion. It really puzzles me as to why men are so against it, if they don't go through the whole ordeal. I'm prochoice myself. I see benefits to it and I see no reason for it. Funny though that those who are against abortion are for the death penalty. I guess eye for an eye is far less of a sin.

[Superman]

dice, your post made me lol a bit because it always seems men are the majority who are against abortion. It really puzzles me as to why men are so against it, if they don't go through the whole ordeal. I'm prochoice myself. I see benefits to it and I see no reason for it. Funny though that those who are against abortion are for the death penalty. I guess eye for an eye is far less of a sin.

Men are against it cause women who do such things are killing OUR kids. There is only 2 reason to get an abortion, 1, you get rapped, that kind of mental abuse would not be healthy for a child or the parent. 2, you are molested by your father/brother/uncle and get prego, that kind of mental anguish on a child growing up would make him turn out to go physco on people and shoot up schools. Thats it. There should be NO other reason.

[loka]

So by your logic a baby born with AIDS should be born and put into this world because the mother wasn't raped or a victim of incest. Or the mother will suffer severe complications (possibly death) to birth the baby. There are a lot of consequences that come up in a pregnancy before a child is born. So no. There is more to abortion than just to cater to victims of sexual assault. Far more. And this is why I already said men get big headed with the whole abortion thing. THEIR kid. You have no idea just how bad an abortion can cause mental anguish in a mother than the father. Yeah, you helped being a sperm donor and all, but like I said, it seethes inside a man so much that a woman has that right to say no before a certain time in pregnancy to abort without the father's consent.

In conclusion holy sonic, your mom would more likely suffer a miscarriage than actually give birth to the child anyways. Take it more as a blessing and shit happens rather than be sad. Be happy your mom has the right and your father is supportive and isn't a raging douche who wants the child for his selfish reasons. He's taking a more proactive look at the consequences of both your family and your mothers well being.

[elpolloloco]

It really puzzles me as to why men are so against it, if they don't go through the whole ordeal. .

How is it puzzling? The basis for the pro-life argument is pretty clear cut. Pro lifers believe that

a) It is wrong to terminate a life unless in self defense.
b) Life begins at conception.

I don't think there should be any haziness on why people are pro-life. If you don't think men have the right to complain, then by that argument, they shouldn't have the right to complain if the mother shoots the baby in the head the second she gives birth. I mean, after-all she's the one that "went through the whole ordeal". Just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not going to give my opinion on the subject.

The argument takes total sense. It's just a matter or whether or not you believe that a fetus is "enough" of a life.

[elpolloloco]

To me these arguments make sense:

pro-life: Life begins at conception, and it's wrong to take a life. Pretty clear cut. Hard to argue with that.
pro-choice: The baby is basically just a mass of cells and not aware. It's more of a hamburger roll than a human. Also makes sense.

The arguments that DON'T make sense are

pro-life: It's wrong to take a life, period. I find that most pro-life people seem to be pro-death penalty or even worse... indifferent to engaging in war. This seems like hypocracy to me. For the record: I am pro-death penalty myself, but if my loved ones were to be murdered, I would likely be my choice to ask the judge not to execute the culprit. I'd prefer the person to life in agony the rest of their life

pro-choice: The baby is just going to be a burden. This argument makes NO SENSE whatsoever. If that argument were valid then by that logic it should be legal to execute your kids until they're 18 years old because they cause annorance, burden, discomfort, etc all the way up until adult-hood.

Like I said, I totally understand and sympathize with BOTH sides when it comes to logical, consistent arguments like the ones above. It comes down to whether or not your own religious beliefs let you consider a fetus a human life with all the same rights a BORN baby should have. This is a pretty grey area.

What I can't stand are arguments for pro-choice people who give a reason WHY abortion should be legal which make no sense: "The mother has to go through it". Well in that case, a single mom has to suffer all her life until the kid turns 18. If you're going to use that argument to justify "murder: then you have to admit it's OK to murder a toddler because a single mother is still suffering and going through hell to raise that kid.

It comes down to one thing: Whether or not it's MURDER or not. You can't justify MURDER by saying the kid is going to be a drain, or it's a scary experience or "it's a woman's choice". If you're pro-choice it comes down to just arguing that it ISN'T murder, plain and simple.

---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

It comes down to one thing: Whether or not it's MURDER or not. You can't justify MURDER by saying the kid is going to be a drain, or it's a scary experience or "it's a woman's choice". If you're pro-choice it comes down to just arguing that it ISN'T murder, plain and simple.

That being said. I get furious when I hear about some guy that gets into an accident, killing a pregnant woman and getting charged with killing two people. It's legal for the MOM to kill the unborn baby, but it's MURDER if someone else does it. It makes no sense. The gov't needs to decide IS IT MURDER OR NOT. You can't decide to charge the killing for one person and not for another. The gov't needs to be CONSISTENT or step aside.

In the end, I'm libertarian too. I don't agree with abortion, but I'm not going to lecture anyone. Like ZERO said, it's between you and God. I personally think Rowe vs Wade should be repealed and the STATES themselves should decide on abortion along with other issues dealing with everything from gay marriage, drug legalization to whether or not fireworks should be legal. If you don't like the laws in your state, go move to a state you agree with. It's America. Every topic has people divided down the middle, so why do we all act like the federal gov't has a one-size-fits-all answer for all the issues that pertain to 300,000,000+ people? The states, counties, and cities know whats' best for their own people.

[Jeimuzu]

urghhhhhhhh depressing....

*Pats.*

Also, I doubt I'll ever had a biological child. I'll probably go the route of adoption if I come to the conclusion that I don't care to be in solitude my whole life.. Heh, like that'll happen.