Gideon's suggestions for an even better server

[Sword of Gideon]

I'm spending time thinking about and writing about this server because it's a way for me to say thank you. That's all that I mean by this. Okay? It's a nice letter.

It's a good server. For the most part things are fun.
I see some things though which could be improved.

#1: Team balance.
A: It's a constant, non-stop game. Because of the selfishness inherent in us all, we don't care if others suffer for our greed. So teams will remain unbalanced. Team-Scores end up 23-4, OFTEN! An effective team-balancer would be to take the most effective of the winning team and change him with the least effective of the losing team. That will even things out quickly.
B: Scroll of Resurrection should cost $9,000 or more. It becomes a way for an entire team to resurrect if they are winning, and this makes the problem with team balance even worse.
C: If a map gets voted for an extension, the teams swap but the scores don’t. That should be addressed and made right, otherwise what’s the point of a scoreboard at all?

#2: XP Rewards
A: There is absolutely no incentive to win a round. A round winner team XP award would be nice.
B: It's almost painful to shoot someone to less than 10% and then a teammate pops them dead with a single shot. An assisted kill XP bonus like TF2 provides would be nice (I've seen this on another CS server, so it is definitely possible).
C: A sliding scale reward system would be cool. If you were alive at the end of the round, if you touched a hostage (1XP), if you had the bomb (2xp), if you lost/dropped the bomb (-1xp), if you beat more than 4 players, all kinds of stuff!!!

#3: No All-Talk
A: Or at least the option to vote it off. All-talk is fine for alot of the time, but I'd bet you'd be surprised how many people would vote for it to be turned off. I like strategy, and it's hard to even start giving or taking orders when the other team is also listening.

#4: A clearly understandable MOTD for how people should behave in a game.
A: As it stands now, I don't even really *HAVE TO* complete an objective. It's not in the MOTD. I mean, as a player I know I have to do so; but make it so that whatever happens the rules are absolute and without argument. Any admin should be able to say to the entire server, "READ THE MOTD". And it should list the rules out. For instance, some people believe that at 1:30 a player must be completing their objectives. It doesn't say that; it says that they must evacuate spawn. Even some of the admins don't read or know the MOTD.
B: Sometimes interactions between admins and players is not absolute. A well written MOTD would eliminate any possible misinterpretations.

#5: Admins are required to use Green-font type whenever they are interacting with someone in an admin capacity.
A: Even if they use voice. They should be required to repeat what they say in an abbreviated version and use the green-font type. (for one, a lot of people don't even use voice and the admin will be wasting time and getting angry because he doesn't think for several minutes to address EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the same polite way as if it is there first time here to the server). Some admins get all frustrated because people don't listen and then they get really angry when someone doesn't respond, and only realize this at the end of it all.
B: The green-font should never be used for player-viewpoint conversation like “nice shot” or “You jerk” or anything which isn’t an official admin reason. Whenever an admin uses the green-font for personal reasons, it cheapens the authority of all admins. Green-font type should always be like an alarm that grabs everyone’s attention, not used for petty purposes.


#6: Small Admin Rewards.
A: If an admin sees me giving advice to a new player, it would be cool if he could give me XP as a way of saying thanks.
B: If the rewards are kept very small (100-500XP), then it probably wouldn’t be abused. Or if XP is too much, then maybe a little health for the round or something of that nature. Inotherwords, not all admin interactions with players need to be about punishment.

#7: Selecting admins
A: I realize that Ibis survives on people who buy admin; but you get what you pay for so to speak and sometimes that’s less attractive than the money. Wouldn’t it be nice if admins could post about their rewarded players who did something good for the server; and then to ask Ibis if a person could be offered admin for $7 instead of $11, because they were specifically chosen due to their good behavior and help for the server’s good?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i'd say tl;dr, but i'm actually too bored atm. so here this goes:

1) server not finished yet, balance not finished yet

2) LOL. that is all

3) LOL. that is all

4) the admins exist to enforce the rules. they can link to the forums at any time

5) LOL. that is all

6) LOL LOL!! that is all

7) no. we rarely get problem admins, and they get dealt with fast enough. one of the biggest things setting ibis appart from all the other clans is that ANYONE can buy admin.


our wcs server was incredible before the ob-update hit. flatout incredible. zero is trying to get it back to being identical to how it was there. the only thing i see in your post is the fact that scrolls are too cheap. otherwise, it's mostly nitpicking.

[maynard]

I'm spending time thinking about and writing about this server because it's a way for me to say thank you. That's all that I mean by this. Okay? It's a nice letter.

It's a good server. For the most part things are fun.
I see some things though which could be improved.

#1: Team balance.
A: It's a constant, non-stop game. Because of the selfishness inherent in us all, we don't care if others suffer for our greed. So teams will remain unbalanced. Team-Scores end up 23-4, OFTEN! An effective team-balancer would be to take the most effective of the winning team and change him with the least effective of the losing team. That will even things out quickly.
B: Scroll of Resurrection should cost $9,000 or more. It becomes a way for an entire team to resurrect if they are winning, and this makes the problem with team balance even worse.
C: If a map gets voted for an extension, the teams swap but the scores don’t. That should be addressed and made right, otherwise what’s the point of a scoreboard at all?

#2: XP Rewards
A: There is absolutely no incentive to win a round. A round winner team XP award would be nice.
B: It's almost painful to shoot someone to less than 10% and then a teammate pops them dead with a single shot. An assisted kill XP bonus like TF2 provides would be nice (I've seen this on another CS server, so it is definitely possible).
C: A sliding scale reward system would be cool. If you were alive at the end of the round, if you touched a hostage (1XP), if you had the bomb (2xp), if you lost/dropped the bomb (-1xp), if you beat more than 4 players, all kinds of stuff!!!

#3: No All-Talk
A: Or at least the option to vote it off. All-talk is fine for alot of the time, but I'd bet you'd be surprised how many people would vote for it to be turned off. I like strategy, and it's hard to even start giving or taking orders when the other team is also listening.

#4: A clearly understandable MOTD for how people should behave in a game.
A: As it stands now, I don't even really *HAVE TO* complete an objective. It's not in the MOTD. I mean, as a player I know I have to do so; but make it so that whatever happens the rules are absolute and without argument. Any admin should be able to say to the entire server, "READ THE MOTD". And it should list the rules out. For instance, some people believe that at 1:30 a player must be completing their objectives. It doesn't say that; it says that they must evacuate spawn. Even some of the admins don't read or know the MOTD.
B: Sometimes interactions between admins and players is not absolute. A well written MOTD would eliminate any possible misinterpretations.

#5: Admins are required to use Green-font type whenever they are interacting with someone in an admin capacity.
A: Even if they use voice. They should be required to repeat what they say in an abbreviated version and use the green-font type. (for one, a lot of people don't even use voice and the admin will be wasting time and getting angry because he doesn't think for several minutes to address EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the same polite way as if it is there first time here to the server). Some admins get all frustrated because people don't listen and then they get really angry when someone doesn't respond, and only realize this at the end of it all.
B: The green-font should never be used for player-viewpoint conversation like “nice shot” or “You jerk” or anything which isn’t an official admin reason. Whenever an admin uses the green-font for personal reasons, it cheapens the authority of all admins. Green-font type should always be like an alarm that grabs everyone’s attention, not used for petty purposes.


#6: Small Admin Rewards.
A: If an admin sees me giving advice to a new player, it would be cool if he could give me XP as a way of saying thanks.
B: If the rewards are kept very small (100-500XP), then it probably wouldn’t be abused. Or if XP is too much, then maybe a little health for the round or something of that nature. Inotherwords, not all admin interactions with players need to be about punishment.

#7: Selecting admins
A: I realize that Ibis survives on people who buy admin; but you get what you pay for so to speak and sometimes that’s less attractive than the money. Wouldn’t it be nice if admins could post about their rewarded players who did something good for the server; and then to ask Ibis if a person could be offered admin for $7 instead of $11, because they were specifically chosen due to their good behavior and help for the server’s good?

1 those who are not new 2 this community are well aware of my thoughts regarding this issue, and that's buck up, and quit being a noob, the reason 1 team normally gets pwwnd is cause they are either not buying weapons and throwing all their cash into xp tomes instead of guns...2 don't change races 2 try and counter what's currently being used by the opposing team.... personally I love being on the losing team, it's how you get better at the game and the mod... people just need 2 buck up and stop being noobs.... not qq when ever they are on a team that's losing has always been my opinion and always will be.

2 actually there is an incentive 2 win a round, it's called cash money, which allows you 2 purchase shit from the shopmenu, buy xp, and buy better guns.. it's actually a pretty damn big incentive....

3 people use voice for just having fun and communicating, no 1 ever uses it for any form of actual strategic advance... you could argue no 1 does cause all talk is on, but the truth is no 1 does it cause no 1 gives a shit. 90% of people who play, play just 2 lvl whatever race they feel like and don't give 2 shits about their team, or actually winning... yet they will complain non stop if they are losing lol...

4 agreed. a MOTD with the server rules would be great... ive been asking for 1 for a very long time now.

5 when an admin addresses people or needs 2 issue a warning... they should and normally do issue a voice warning, and then do a quick spam in text of whatever point they are trying 2 get across, which is more than enough 2 inform people of whatever needs 2 be said. also the only time green font happens is when admins talk with other admins in ma_chat.... ma_say = a teal color font that all can see.

6 no. admins are admins, and should not get any form of special anything for being such. we want admins that love the servers/community, not people who buy it for their own personal gain... people who buy admin so they can benefit themselfs ALWAYS end up being a serious problem. we want admins who buy it cause they love and care for this community, not cause they want special privs. this would also be a serious disrespect 2 thos who have been admins of this community for multiple years, nor can we afford 2 drop the admin price 2 all existing admins...

7 people come and people go. we go through admins constantly... and our community is unique cause we allow any one 2 be a admin provided they have the cash, we do this cause we have enough skilled staff/clan/current admins who will keep them in line, and report any bull shit new admins pull. people on welfare can afford 11 dollars a month lol... there is no reason for people 2 claim it's 2 much money, or anything... also if you really want IBIS 2 prosper, and you want 2 support it, why haven't you bought admin yourself?

[Blackmage]

I'm not going to put words in Aco's mouth, but, I believe a part of his response is because we've discussed many of these topics before, some on numerous occasions. The lack of XP rewards is balanced by the flat xp requirement, for example. The list of things people want added to the server is already huge, and only gets longer while we wait for the server to get back to it's former standing.

1.a&b. This is all known and will hopefully be taken into consideration when Zero has the time to do such things. There are threads (at least one) that deal with this topic.

On the topic of balance: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...at-Need-Fixing

c. If this was a deathmatch server, it might mean more, but the scoreboard doesn't even know 99% of what happens in the game, so, it's only for e-peen. It only takes into consideration Kills, Bombs, Defuses and Rounds won. Stars just mean that a player was on the winning team and killed the most and often wins the tiebreak or the dieroll, not sure how it figures out ties, or finished the objective. Given teams change, players leave, people inflate their scores killing afks or lose scores by suiciding for a variety of reasons. It doesn't know that the blood mage revived everyone on the team, the crypt lord nibbled everyone on the other team, the vagabond scouted and gave the information that allowed your teamates to kill the enemy. The shadow hunter that forced the enemy to go the long way and stop the defusal. Not even just WCS has this problem, the guy who does 90 damage to 4 people and dies without killing one of them. The one who is at the other bomb site when it's planted and gets half the other team to go to the wrong site. It's a team game, while you might be the best person on your team score-wise, that just means you got a lot of kills, it doesn't mean you're the best player, or even useful. I can go more in depth in the problems with judging a game just by it's scoreboard, and games such as CS:S which do just that. It's why I love psychostats.

2. a. I agree with no incentive to winning, another option would be a disincentive for losing, but either way, it requires some looking at server and xp balance overall. We also have discussions of this in a couple places IIRC. An example disincentive from another WCS, losing team is slayed end of the round.

Response to maynard: In the situation where there are 5 of them and one of me, as I'm probably not going to win, it's better not to try and win, but to try and kill as many of them as I can. If I win this way, so much the better. If I kill even one of them, I've almost made the difference of XP from the tome I could have got from winning if it's the minimum xp gain (2K vs 3.5K, gaining 30 vs the 100). If the bomb's planted or I'm T and the CTs have the hosties, it's better to stay alive and not bother with the objective, as then I don't even need to buy a gun. If I've got a vagabond on the other team and the bomb's down in an open area, I may just spend the rest of the time trying to hunt the SOB down. If it's a map vaga is stupid good on, and he's planted the bomb (dolls or deathcookin) I'm going to try and find the vaga, and fail, rather than die to him stupidly. There are more scenarios if you want, but, we have no good reason to try and win when the odds are against you.

b. Agreed with it being annoying. I'd love some assist rewards, but it would also take some looking at IMO, for balance and for what constitutes an assist. Such as, he shoots me while you're mowing him down. I'm a Night Elf and he takes one damage from me. Do I get the assist. Or, I shoot him, he evades it and takes no damage, you kill him, as that damage is still shown, do I get the assist? How long prior to death does damage give you an assist. How many players can get the assist. Is assist XP flat or based upon the XP received by the killer, or based upon the xp you'd get for killing them.

c. As these would change certain types of gameplay, again, would need some looking at balance-wise.

3.It is possible to adapt to all-talk. If you want to use it strategically, there are certain ways, such as sowing disinformation, making vague comments, ect. You see this all the time when the bomb is planted

4. a. http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...944#post108944

Also, #4 here: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...2240-WCS-Rules

as for b, Ibis rules all left open to interpretation all over the place. There are some set in stone rules, but, most are just general consensus, and that's how they're enforced. I agree with wanting some things more clearly stated, but much of it is stated as it is on purpose.

5. I'd say this is something to bring up elsewhere, not really a WCS-only problem IMO. As such, no comment.

6. I agree with "all admin interaction doesn't have to be negative" and it isn't always, having a drug round for example, can be fun. Not sure on rewarding players for doing something, as admins are just players who are paying for a privilege, so they would need to be eligible too, and in any case, someone would find some way to make it abuse.

7. This, again, is more of a IBIS problem, not just WCS, and probably should be taken up elsewhere. As it has to do with the finances of the server as well, I really have nothing useful to say about it.

[maynard]

the truth and end result is until all the races are re-released, and restored 2 their former glory, there is nothing wroth doing.... our WCS server was off the fucking hook last year before Valve fucked the game and many mods over.... once we restore that, we can work on other things.

[Blackmage]

What's the harm in discussing what we'd like to see? For all we know, we might give Zero some inspiration or find some glaring error or something missing in the rules. Much of it will probably be shot down for one reason or another, but picking the brains of the community can sometimes lead to a few gems, or better ways to do old things. We also might have an idea that has some merit, but needs to be changed for one reason or another, so rather than wait for D-Day to start throwing ideas at the world, why not try to iron them out in the meantime?

[maynard]

I never said there was any harm in anything.. I simply said what our current goals are, and what needs 2 be done before we can expand and go past just the re-release of the races....

[Blackmage]

Ah, ok, I interpreted "there is nothing wroth doing" as saying these threads were pointless. My mistake.

[Masskid]

I'm spending time thinking about and writing about this server because it's a way for me to say thank you. That's all that I mean by this. Okay? It's a nice letter.

It's a good server. For the most part things are fun.
I see some things though which could be improved.

#1: Team balance.
A: It's a constant, non-stop game. Because of the selfishness inherent in us all, we don't care if others suffer for our greed. So teams will remain unbalanced. Team-Scores end up 23-4, OFTEN! An effective team-balancer would be to take the most effective of the winning team and change him with the least effective of the losing team. That will even things out quickly.
B: Scroll of Resurrection should cost $9,000 or more. It becomes a way for an entire team to resurrect if they are winning, and this makes the problem with team balance even worse.
C: If a map gets voted for an extension, the teams swap but the scores don’t. That should be addressed and made right, otherwise what’s the point of a scoreboard at all?

#2: XP Rewards
A: There is absolutely no incentive to win a round. A round winner team XP award would be nice.
B: It's almost painful to shoot someone to less than 10% and then a teammate pops them dead with a single shot. An assisted kill XP bonus like TF2 provides would be nice (I've seen this on another CS server, so it is definitely possible).
C: A sliding scale reward system would be cool. If you were alive at the end of the round, if you touched a hostage (1XP), if you had the bomb (2xp), if you lost/dropped the bomb (-1xp), if you beat more than 4 players, all kinds of stuff!!!

#3: No All-Talk
A: Or at least the option to vote it off. All-talk is fine for alot of the time, but I'd bet you'd be surprised how many people would vote for it to be turned off. I like strategy, and it's hard to even start giving or taking orders when the other team is also listening.

#4: A clearly understandable MOTD for how people should behave in a game.
A: As it stands now, I don't even really *HAVE TO* complete an objective. It's not in the MOTD. I mean, as a player I know I have to do so; but make it so that whatever happens the rules are absolute and without argument. Any admin should be able to say to the entire server, "READ THE MOTD". And it should list the rules out. For instance, some people believe that at 1:30 a player must be completing their objectives. It doesn't say that; it says that they must evacuate spawn. Even some of the admins don't read or know the MOTD.
B: Sometimes interactions between admins and players is not absolute. A well written MOTD would eliminate any possible misinterpretations.

#5: Admins are required to use Green-font type whenever they are interacting with someone in an admin capacity.
A: Even if they use voice. They should be required to repeat what they say in an abbreviated version and use the green-font type. (for one, a lot of people don't even use voice and the admin will be wasting time and getting angry because he doesn't think for several minutes to address EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the same polite way as if it is there first time here to the server). Some admins get all frustrated because people don't listen and then they get really angry when someone doesn't respond, and only realize this at the end of it all.
B: The green-font should never be used for player-viewpoint conversation like “nice shot” or “You jerk” or anything which isn’t an official admin reason. Whenever an admin uses the green-font for personal reasons, it cheapens the authority of all admins. Green-font type should always be like an alarm that grabs everyone’s attention, not used for petty purposes.


#6: Small Admin Rewards.
A: If an admin sees me giving advice to a new player, it would be cool if he could give me XP as a way of saying thanks.
B: If the rewards are kept very small (100-500XP), then it probably wouldn’t be abused. Or if XP is too much, then maybe a little health for the round or something of that nature. Inotherwords, not all admin interactions with players need to be about punishment.

#7: Selecting admins
A: I realize that Ibis survives on people who buy admin; but you get what you pay for so to speak and sometimes that’s less attractive than the money. Wouldn’t it be nice if admins could post about their rewarded players who did something good for the server; and then to ask Ibis if a person could be offered admin for $7 instead of $11, because they were specifically chosen due to their good behavior and help for the server’s good?

1a this is a difficult thing to fix because sometimes one person can affect the flow of the game. I've been in situations where i would switch over to the losing team and then they would start winning, so what would i have to do? go spectate?
1b I semi agree, they shouldnt cost 3k but they should not also cost 9k, i would go somewhere around 5k because you could buy a tome or you could res and try to get the same xp to around a tome.
1c noone really cares about the scoreboard, just how manytimes they have personally won >.>

2a i agree with maynard, money is the reason you win the round, with money you can buy gear to help kill people for xp so actually you are "winning" xp
2b maybe, its kinda a good concept. but tell me who gets more xp? the one who killed or the one who shot him down to 1 hp? and how would it be split?
2c so if having the bomb gives you 2, and dropping takes 1, couldnt you just juggle it in the air till you max a race?

3a this is a good idea.... except most of us play wcs for the community aspect, taking away all the talking makes it strategy based and if you want that then this isnt the server for you

4a yes yes yes, motd would help alot. its hard to point someone to the rules since its not of easy access. motd would make it much easier to enforce the rules.

5a i agree because not everyone has voice enabled so speaking to them is useless, a verbal command and a green text would help.
5b but if you couldnt do this then why would you buy admin T.T

6 no bad idea. think of this, someone friend joins then gives him advice, later the same guy joins with either a differnt name and picture, or a different admin on board, one guy could rake up bunches of xp without even playing.... that would be worse then those people that only buy tomes >.<

7 but reporting bad admins is fun

[H.Bitch]

Some quick suggestions:

1. Hide under a rock for about 1 month

2. Grow a beard and change your name

3. let this lulz pass over like the storm it is and hopefully you can come out alive.