crouch/vent spots

[slipstream]

Can we get a ruling on these spots so the rule becomes official sometime soon, I'm sick of seeing shit like this, and yes it is impossible for any zombie to get in, it is way too much gunfire, deformed gets drained in about 4sec, so they are no help, all the other zombies have knockback, so it is impossible to train, and we the zombies tried relentlessly.

outside the crouch spot on fubar towers


inside during one of the rounds, just the round before it had 7 people inside, and this time it had 8


2 admins on, neither cared that this spot was being abused, and even did it themselves. Other servers have rules concerning the limit to the number of people in crouch spots, or small rooms, or rooms with incredibly hard to break cades, and this server is missing that. People will abuse spots and there's nothing the zombies can do.

[Rezel]

Two Per Vent Opening - Only two people allowed per opening. Two opening means Four people are allowed.

The rule is already there, but We do not enforce it because it still needs more work; The other issue is it is way to much to enforce, we would be having to kick half the server for them to get used to it.

It would behoove you to look at the rules before posting...

[Bane of Soldiers]

From 08-24-2011 03:29 PM

id wait 2 see if zero even keeps the rule before putting 2 much work into it.

This vent rule has never been pursued very far, I think all clan members and admins have given up on enforcing this rule about two days after its proposal. Much too hard to enforce, and clan members, admins, and regulars alike do not acknowledge its existence. It's hardly fair to say that there are two admins who had "abused this spot." as the rule is ineffective

Other servers have rules concerning the limit to the number of people in crouch spots, or small rooms

Most other servers are unlimited ammo servers, which means one person would be able to win solo in most any crouch spot; thus, there is a need for regulation of crouch spots on these servers. Limited ammo, time after time, has screwed such spots over. From what I've seen, IBIS is the only popular servers that implements limited ammo (excluding escape servers). Plaguefest and Firewall, the only two zombie mod servers that I see are never empty are unlimited ammo servers.

Rooms with incredibly hard to break cades, and this server is missing that. People will abuse spots and there's nothing the zombies can do.

The server is far from "missing rules." These powerful barricades only exist because of the high amount of skilled players we have on the server (unlike other servers) and the sharing of barricade tips among the population of regular players. IBIS zombie mod players are able to develop their barricade skills better than those of pF and FW because their settings allow heights and "iron curtains" to be sufficient enough. And that's why you see some ingenious barricading techniques(and barricade breaking methods on the zombie's side) developed on the IBIS server. People will continue to use these spots because it's obvious that it has a high probability of survival. You have to consider, what goes through a player's mind. The goal is to survive, so would they follow their pride or clear logic?

And yes, zombies can do something. The reason many trains and deformeds fail is because of a broken chain of command. They climb over each other and prevent any progress. With proper teamwork, enough zombies, and some deformeds, that spot will fall.

and in regards to the quote from maynard, look at:
http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...pt-2011-Delays

and i will close off with this:

"difficult" only equals "impossible" when you're a lazy fucktard.

[Rosie]

Since I am the one getting called out here I will respond. I attempted to block after 2 or 3 people came in the spot. After the zombies spawns I removed myself from the door. Also of note that spot only survived in 1 or 2 rounds out of 10+. If this thread results in the final enforcement of the rule, I will enforce it. Since this is the only crouch spot you will ever find me in, doesn't really phase me.

On a completely seperate note. Slip you have done nothing but whine about the Ibis servers since you started playing. You have called out Admins and Clan alike on anything you can find. If you do not have fun on the server then please find somewhere you will. I know for a fact that I am not the only admin who loathes to see you enter the server. As a player this shouldnt be what you want.

Why do you complain aboout this crap so fucking much in here. My name is the exact same as you see in game. Add me to your Steam, and if you have an issue with me then hit me up on there. I enjoy this community, and I log alot of time trying to help it thrive.

Would it have been good for the server if I slayed 5 CT's in a round? Would it have made your pecker feel a little bit bigger becaue you got your way? I have played with you on GG as well as ZM and you are not a bad player. So take that, and just fucking play. If someone breaks your cade don't post a thread about it, be a man/boy/girl/tranny, and ask them why they did it. Explain that it is wrong. But don't fucking cry in the forums about every thing that happens to you. I still will not treat you any different in game, but I sure as fuck am done being nice to you in the forums.

[Sinsanity]

I know I've been trying my best on these vent rules, however spots like these are difficult to judge. While the vent rule has to do with single file vents. There stands the fact of rooms like these where there can be overpopulated. In these situations I set a temporary rule to my best discretion, if it looks full I will set a temporary ruling of maybe 4 players in that crouch spot.. if no one listens to my warning then ill start slaying the excess to get their attention. Higher admins might bite me for making a temp ruling like that on my own, but im doing what I feel is necessary until something solid is brought into fruition from the top. So if anyone sees error in my way I apologize. Im doing the best I can with what I have to work with.

[slipstream]

@bane
ingenious barricading techniques?

Having a prop that needs to be pulled out of a doorway that zombies can't even crouch walk over and all the humans have to do is shoot the zombies away and pull the prop back in, or even simply shoot the prop back in. This is done on every server that requires any skill at all. Unlimited ammo servers are horrid and require little to no skill. It is nothing genius at all, and if you've noticed, most of the maps people pick have quite a few bitch spots like that, and are general over populated which makes it incredible difficult for zombies, only real hope is an idiot human on the inside throwing a grenade.

And yes, zombies can do something. The reason many trains and deformeds fail is because of a broken chain of command. They climb over each other and prevent any progress. With proper teamwork, enough zombies, and some deformeds, that spot will fall.

No, with 8 people in that spot, there is a non stop barrage of gunfire, which means constant knockback, and therefore trains are impossible to even get started. Now you think a deformed in the lead might be able to start a train, but nope, with all 8 guns directed at the deformed, not only is the deformed already slow, its slower while crouch walking, and even slower still while being shot at, and you can't just start jumping and hope to get in, because you need a bit of speed for the jumping in a crouch spot to actually work, so deformeds actually become a wall preventing other zombies in, and the deformed dies within 4 seconds like I said. I also said that the zombies did try to train, and it wasn't happening, and we were doing it right.


----------
See I thought the rule was still in limbo because of the red text, but if it is a rule, the enforce it. Don't worry about who was first or not, slay everyone, then maybe people will get the hint and start blocking those trying to pile into these spots so they don't get slayed even though they were there first. I don't see what is so hard about this rule, don't treat vents as vents and crouch spots or even crouch doorways differently from each other, they are all the same, go by the width of the doorway. If 2 zombies can get in at a time comfortably, then allow a greater number of people but not 8, more like 3 maybe 4, but if it is single file, or an exact fit for 2, limit it to only 2 people. There is no reason why 2 people with the right guns cannot hold off a vent spot indefinitely.

There needs to be limits for certain spots, if it seems like every round zombies cannot break through a cade, and it is because of the number of humans in the spot, then there is probably too many, and the spot needs a player limit. Zombies need a chance or they might as well just go jump around the map. It defeats the purpose if zombies cannot get through at all. The number of players behind a cade does make a huge difference as to whether or not the cade can be broken. You could have 10 people in a room, 3 making sure the cade stays together and 7 shooting at the zombies, zombies will not get through at all. And this happens quite too much, and like real brainless zombies, people run at the cade, knifing it thinking they are accomplishing something.

Let's take a spot in lil panic for example. It is a true bitch spot too. In the basement, the smallest room, after shooting another vending machine in, both vending machines standing up, and the couch behind, people should know the cade for that room. One person with an AK can defend that spot alone AND get a couple kills in the process, or they could use a TMP and just make sure the cade stays up. That should be proof enough that bitch spots should be limited to a low number of people and not to how ever many can fit in the room. And it is still possible for the zombies to win though with just the one person in there, but it is very hard. Now why do other similar spots that require very little set up allow for so many people at a time?

-----
If it is too hard to admin a zmod server, then maybe go full force on the rules for a few weeks, then people will get the hint not to cade break, or crowd crouch spots/vents, or spam or w/e else, make people get the hint, don't ban, just slay, they will learn, and after a few weeks, people might just be too afraid to try and cade break with any admin online. People know that unless an admin witnesses it happen, then they have nothing to worry about, and they will continue to do it because of that. Scare people into listening, it's that simple.

-----
And I know this works because of the server I used to play on which is now dead, the clans just bored I guess, -=DT=-, Ducky is part of the clan as am I, (i don't really remember him though) and the admins had 0 tolerance for stupidity, which included cade breaking, zombies blocking other zombies from humans, etc, just stupid stuff in general. No one was banned right away for anything, usually if an admin was made aware there were too many people in a vent (limit was 1 per vent btw), one would no clip on over to check it out and see who was furthest in, and then teleport the other player somewhere safe but not in the vent. If they were just stupid and tried going back, or kept doing it round after round, then they were slayed. People learned fast or they sat out round after round until they learned.

[Rezel]

Having a prop that needs to be pulled out of a doorway that zombies can't even crouch walk over and all the humans have to do is shoot the zombies away and pull the prop back in, or even simply shoot the prop back in. This is done on every server that requires any skill at all. Unlimited ammo servers are horrid and require little to no skill. It is nothing genius at all, and if you've noticed, most of the maps people pick have quite a few bitch spots like that, and are general over populated which makes it incredible difficult for zombies, only real hope is an idiot human on the inside throwing a grenade.

It takes real skill to have teamwork, and some places it requires skill to set up correctly, I highly suggest you back off your statement before you piss off the regulars more than you already have. If you do not like the way we have the zombie mod setup, or it is not skilled enough for you find a new server before your forced to find a new one.

See I thought the rule was still in limbo because of the red text, but if it is a rule, the enforce it. Don't worry about who was first or not, slay everyone, then maybe people will get the hint and start blocking those trying to pile into these spots so they don't get slayed even though they were there first. I don't see what is so hard about this rule, don't treat vents as vents and crouch spots or even crouch doorways differently from each other, they are all the same, go by the width of the doorway. If 2 zombies can get in at a time comfortably, then allow a greater number of people but not 8, more like 3 maybe 4, but if it is single file, or an exact fit for 2, limit it to only 2 people. There is no reason why 2 people with the right guns cannot hold off a vent spot indefinitely.

I do not think you understand the magnitude of what your asking.. The server has been like this for a very long time now, and most of our player base is regulars who are used to this; forcing the entire server to change would just end up angering our regulars and forcing them to revolt verse actually doing what we want it to do which is make their playing time a good one.

No, with 8 people in that spot, there is a non stop barrage of gunfire, which means constant knockback, and therefore trains are impossible to even get started. Now you think a deformed in the lead might be able to start a train, but nope, with all 8 guns directed at the deformed, not only is the deformed already slow, its slower while crouch walking, and even slower still while being shot at, and you can't just start jumping and hope to get in, because you need a bit of speed for the jumping in a crouch spot to actually work, so deformeds actually become a wall preventing other zombies in, and the deformed dies within 4 seconds like I said. I also said that the zombies did try to train, and it wasn't happening, and we were doing it right.

"A zombie train is a line of zombies formed to push into a particular spot that kickback is mitigated and the humans can get tagged." That is what a zombie train is, so spots are obviously possible, but people lack intelligence, or just crowd around the entrance and give them kills.

Let's take a spot in lil panic for example. It is a true bitch spot too. In the basement, the smallest room, after shooting another vending machine in, both vending machines standing up, and the couch behind, people should know the cade for that room. One person with an AK can defend that spot alone AND get a couple kills in the process, or they could use a TMP and just make sure the cade stays up. That should be proof enough that bitch spots should be limited to a low number of people and not to how ever many can fit in the room. And it is still possible for the zombies to win though with just the one person in there, but it is very hard. Now why do other similar spots that require very little set up allow for so many people at a time?

So basically your making the statement that if the spot isn't breakable then its something which should be banned? I hope you do realize that every spot in every single map can be made unbreakable given the same amount of time; So do you want us to start writing rules that make every spot illegal? Let's all go camp on top of the buildings like old school and hope to go someone isn't a jumper zombie who tags some idiot hanging over the edge. That spot is not totally 100% impossible, hence why we put the rule stating that you can't use the money crate.

There needs to be limits for certain spots, if it seems like every round zombies cannot break through a cade, and it is because of the number of humans in the spot, then there is probably too many, and the spot needs a player limit. Zombies need a chance or they might as well just go jump around the map. It defeats the purpose if zombies cannot get through at all. The number of players behind a cade does make a huge difference as to whether or not the cade can be broken. You could have 10 people in a room, 3 making sure the cade stays together and 7 shooting at the zombies, zombies will not get through at all. And this happens quite too much, and like real brainless zombies, people run at the cade, knifing it thinking they are accomplishing something.

This once again falls under to much enforcement, your asking us to start writing limits on every single spot, and every place where you think is not legit? Your basically saying that we need to write more rules to enforce so that we have more things for them to break. Do you even try and think about what you are talking about whatsoever? Have you ever contemplated the fall backs on what you are asking us to do?

here I'll name a few:
Cons:

• -More stress for the admins to enforce the massive amounts of rules
  
  -Opens up more chances of abuse because the admins have too much to follow, or don't want to follow because their is to much to enforce.
  
  -Too many rules for players to actually have fun, or be to worried about getting banned for something retarded.
  
  -More stress on clan, and Upper Level admins for having to deal with more abuse threads, and ban threads of people breaking the rules.
  
  -Extreme period of blackout where getting used to the new rules might cause more people to leave than stay.
  
  -More drama on the servers from fighting about who was in there first, and who has ownership and control of the cade.
  

Pro's

• more balanced player because a new person doesn't like how our servers run?

Those are just a few things I can think off the top of my head within a 1 minute period, I'm sure their more given the time to think them up; but I would think you would get the idea from what I posted above.

And I know this works because of the server I used to play on which is now dead, the clans just bored I guess, -=DT=-, Ducky is part of the clan as am I, (i don't really remember him though) and the admins had 0 tolerance for stupidity, which included cade breaking, zombies blocking other zombies from humans, etc, just stupid stuff in general. No one was banned right away for anything, usually if an admin was made aware there were too many people in a vent (limit was 1 per vent btw), one would no clip on over to check it out and see who was furthest in, and then teleport the other player somewhere safe but not in the vent. If they were just stupid and tried going back, or kept doing it round after round, then they were slayed. People learned fast or they sat out round after round until they learned.

I am going to be blunt... This is not your DT server.. this is IBIS. We have our zombie mod set up like this for a very long time, And I nor the other clan members have any intention of changing it in ways that modify what it has always been. The reason we put down rules so that we could help further control the server, not change it into something new. We like the way it is, though it might require minor tweaks in which I and other clan are working on getting out. If you feel like we require such massive changes to the server, and the way it is run then I suggest you find a new server, obviously you have a insane amount of issues with the way it is now by the amount of posts I unfortunately have to read.

[Evil]

Dude, seriously. You have to stop bitching about every little thing that goes on in the server? Just stfu and play the game. Posting stupid shit like, "waa waa. I'm a zombie and I can't tag a human in a crouch spot because there's 8 of them." Just leave the server and go play somewhere else. We do things here way differently than the other servers? Why you may ask? Becuase that's who we are. We play to have fun, not to enforce rules and slay/ban everyone who breaks a tiny rule. Please, just leave the server if you don't like it here. You leaving = less stress for us. We don't want to listen to people bitching and whining about every little thing.

If you don't like it here, join the Plague server. You'll have lots of fun there with Unlimited Ammo, crouch spots, bitch maps, and even more. Have fun!

- Thank you and have a nice day.

[slipstream]

I know what a train is, you didn't have to explain, and I will say one last time, CONSTANT GUNFIRE (8 GUNS) = EVERY ZOMBIE GETTING HIT (even the ones behind the lead zombie) = CONSTANT KNOCKBACK TO ALL ZOMBIES = TRAINS DO NOT WORK = UNFAIR

People are banned/punished all the time for cade breaking, mind you it is only when an admins cade gets broken, which is bullshit considering what you said.

Stress? People paid for admin to uphold the rules, they bought the stress of being an admin, and considering how many admins there are, enforcing rules should be very easy.

I never said anything about banning spots. RESTRICT SPOTS TO A LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE. Maybe capital letters will make it stand out this time.

A balanced game is more fun for everyone, and if people have to get pissed off in the beginning as the admins start enforcing rules until people start following the rules, then that is what should be done.

How many times have zombies just given up and roamed around the map because there are too many humans in a little bitch spot? Happens probably every other cade map. Sure a few stay and continue to try to get in, and eventually die, but the smart people know it is pointless. So the regulars like sitting around doing nothing? That is what passes as fun?

I know when there is no chance, I can tell by the crowd around a cade, by what they are doing, I will always try to get into a crouch spot if there is a reasonable amount of people, if I know that the zombies will not get the humans, I try not to give anyone an extra kill. 2/3 times I get to a room first, if I manage to get a cade started, someone will shoot their way in, which is acceptable, because admins from what you say are too lazy to enforce the rules. How am I supposed to block people out, which I am allowed to do, if they just keep shooting my cade down? And when they get away with it, they don't learn the rules at all, all they learn is that the admins don't give a fuck and will keep breaking into cades when ever they feel like it.

----------side note
On the same map I took the screenshots, Ness decides to spam, not just mic spam, but he text spams at the same time, and it reads what ever is playing on the mic. With 2 admins on, neither did fuck all, no warning, no telling him to stop. What is the point of having all these admins if they do fuck all?

Regular on the server or not, fucking tell these idiots to read the rules, follow the rules, and have the admins enforce the rules, Zmod rules and basic rules. When people follow the rules, the game ends up being more fun, because no one has to worry about anyone doing anything stupid most of the time.


@evil

We play to have fun, not to enforce rules and slay/ban everyone who breaks a tiny rule.

bullshit, dont ever let someone touch your cade evil, they will be banned so fast

If you don't like it here, join the Plague server. You'll have lots of fun there with Unlimited Ammo, crouch spots, bitch maps, and even more. Have fun!

Stupid much? Funny how I said I WILL NOT PLAY ON UNLIMITED AMMO SERVERS. Also, IBIS already has a lot of bitch maps, and a lot of the good maps that are on the server do not get played because people cannot play without bitch spots, that is a proven fact. 4 way tunnel was finally played not too long ago, and although most people were having fun playing it, because it is a good map, the regulars were the ones bitching about no good cade spots, QQ'ing over the fact that they can't win without them. Get some skill, and if you think it is all team work that allows humans to survive, then 4 way tunnel is a map that requires team work, with some fun spots to hold against the zombies, and that are out in the open, surviving becomes an actual challenge.

[Evil]

Like we said before,

LEAVE (see what I did there?)

If you don't like it here. You don't like how we do things here, join another server. We're not going to change things just because your bitching and whining about little things. Every map has an impossible spot, and people will see that, and use it as an advantage. No matter what we do, they will ALWAYS go to a bitch spot, as you like to call these spots. You can continue rambling on and on and just keep typing, but the fact of the matter is, we're not changing just to make you happy, and everyone else miserable.

Look, slipstream. I'm editing my post!?

"bullshit, dont ever let someone touch your cade evil, they will be banned so fast"

O_o" lol you seem to be high on something? I am the last person you should be talking about banning someone quickly...last time I banned someone was on the 9th of this month...so please, get your facts straight before speaking with thee.