Symbiotic 9/17/11 12:05 AM ET, STEAM_0:0:19432712

[brett friggin favre]

5. Symbotic go into the middle of the hall then turns around while his teammate gets killed in the second hall by a fouth guy which makes both the teammate and enemy show up on the radar where they were.

6. Symbotic prefires into the second hall then the fourth guy teleports while symbotic keeps spraying near door to T spawn not seeing the fourth guy comming up right next to him.

Nothing in it looks like wallhack to me.

There are 5 seconds between when his teammate is killed and when he shoots down the hallway. 5 seconds is plenty enough time for a player to move to a different location. Being "experienced" and having already wasted many rounds through the smoke, he should be conserving ammo at this point but no, he throws a bunch of rounds at where a terrorist was 5 seconds ago. As I explained previously, that's not legitimate strategy. An experienced player would try to get into the enemy's face and take him by surprise, not give away his location and waste ammo because he THINKS the guy might still be there after 5 seconds. I woke up this morning thinking "ya know what, maybe he's just lucky." but I looked at the demo again and I can still see clear as day that he has wallhacks. After 10 years experience in this game, I have developed a pretty good sense for when something's not legit. I know how to use radar. I know how players work and I know when to look where. His patterns, not just what he does but also what he doesn't do, do not show any logic until you turn r_drawothermodels 2 on. The fact that what you see in that short demo is a common occurance with him, the fact that he times his sprays perfectly to when people are coming around corners through smoke, the fact that he's willing to throw rounds into a corner 5 seconds after he last knew someone was there...these are things the most experienced player would not and could not do. Experienced players don't waste rounds, they anticipate where people will be but don't shoot til they see the enemy so the enemy doesn't know where they are. If he uses experience as an excuse, that just lets me know that this is even more BS than I originally thought because his behavior patterns are that of the 4 year old son of a taliban agent who just got his hands on a gun for the first time, not someone who has been playing CS for 6+ years.

[Symbiotic]

these are things the most experienced player would not and could not do

I haven't been playing CS consistently for the past decade; I played CS for 3 years then I played CZ for about 4 years and took a 3 year break and haven't touched a cs game since I just recently got CSS and have just recently been playing it. I only have 23 hours logged on my account and this WCS server has been the only server I've been playing on.
*edit* When I used to play CZ I only played on a hook mod server which is why I spray and "prefire" and do not pay heed to getting flanked. Since I'm used to just hooking away (or relying on super powers in this case).

An experienced player would try to get into the enemy's face and take him by surprise, not give away his location and waste ammo because he THINKS the guy might still be there after 5 seconds.

Typically, when people are camping on cs_office they do just that camp and stay in the same positions in that hallway. If you watch the full demo I prefire on most of the walls when I know there is somewhere there (due to footsteps/gunfire)

he fact that what you see in that short demo is a common occurance with him, the fact that he times his sprays perfectly to when people are coming around corners through smoke, the fact that he's willing to throw rounds into a corner 5 seconds after he last knew someone was there...these are things the most experienced player would not and could not do. Experienced players don't waste rounds, they anticipate where people will be but don't shoot til they see the enemy so the enemy doesn't know where they are. If he uses experience as an excuse, that just lets me know that this is even more BS than I originally thought because his behavior patterns are that of the 4 year old son of a taliban agent who just got his hands on a gun for the first time, not someone who has been playing CS for 6+ years.

so you are proving I'm a noob doesn't mean I hack

[Xerenix]

Well i've said what my opinion is and that is that it's not wallhack.


You'll have to wait for a second upper admin or a clan member decide.

[Penis シ]

I watched the demos because this is a trendy topic.


I'll start by saying that I don't believe the symwalls demo shows anything necessary for a conviction.


So I wanted to see what led up to that situation and watched the sourcetv demo.


In that, I saw plenty of fishy behavior. There were two moments that occurred to me and brett is checking out the second one. But the first one happens shortly after 11000 tick.


In this instance, you have a vagabond teleporting into the area. Sym sees him right off and that's all fine, until what happens during the ensuing shootout. Sym is looking out the window and instead of moving forward into the window, he strafes toward the other window, noobish move but nothing, until you see where his crosshairs are for the entire thing. It looks to me like a walltrace to the point where he shoots before he even has a vantage on the guy. Everyone has shot at boxes where they saw someone disappear but this is something special, 2 people in motion and a minimap that isn't tracking the movement with a perfect walltrace.

I think that if we look into the sourcetv demo, we may find more than the symwalls demo has to offer.

[Xerenix]

In this instance, you have a vagabond teleporting into the area. Sym sees him right off and that's all fine, until what happens during the ensuing shootout. Sym is looking out the window and instead of moving forward into the window, he strafes toward the other window, noobish move but nothing, until you see where his crosshairs are for the entire thing. It looks to me like a walltrace to the point where he shoots before he even has a vantage on the guy. Everyone has shot at boxes where they saw someone disappear but this is something special, 2 people in motion and a minimap that isn't tracking the movement with a perfect walltrace.

I checked this one out and if you slow down the demo, you see he starts shooting at him after he sees him in the next window and as for follow him from one window to the next, he first aims where he was in the first window then simply strafes to the left when the vagabond runs after his teammate. I would have done the same.

In the Symwalls demo, the so called pre-fire is the same, he starts shooting after he sees him if you slow down the demo.

[Penis シ]

The demo shows him shooting through the window, and I could be thinking the exact opposite, but I was going with the addition of his ping plus sourcetv's ping meaning he actually shot that fraction of a second sooner, but like i said, if it's the exact opposite then he would have full view before pulling the trigger.

My moment on that part was when he adjusts his aim onto the character model through the wall.

[brett friggin favre]

Another part to watch is around tick 85000 in the sourcetv demo. That's just before my short demo starts. You can see that (and this is consistent with a few rounds prior to this time) that he doesn't shoot through the smoke down the long hall. On the other hand he immediately shoots through the smoke in the shorter hall which you see in my demo as well. It's this inconsistency, and the fact that he only shoots through smoke when he somehow knows that other people are there, which I'd like to point out here.