The Petition to ban Slipstream from the forums.

[maynard]

With no way to tell who is using what skins-

true... but most people aren't as stupid as slip was and come here and are like "HEY PPL! USE MY ANTI TK SKINS! THEY ARE GREAT!" and then later on try and claim they don't give any form of advantage lol.... what a fail that p o s was lol.

[Blackmage]

Fluffy:

I'm not lumping them into the same place, I'm making a comparison. Second, in my opinion, your "too many" should not remove our trust of the masses. But you know what they say about opinions.

Back on the comparison, just the idea of etiquette, play styles, map knowledge and skill levels mean you're only playing the same game superficially. Connection and Lag. Understanding of the nuances and mechanics. We're playing in the same room, with the same rules, but it's not the same game.

If you believe you shouldn't slay on nade round and I believe people should be careful and that we can use what the game has given us, we're already playing a different game. If you know where maps are broken, or abusable, and feel you can use them, and I don't know or don't want to use them, we're playing under different circumstances. Everyone has the same opportunity to get skins to look smoother or better coloured. We don't have to use them for any advantage, we can use them for variety instead.

Crazy:

The other solution is to tell people not to use them, and if they get caught, deal with it. This is what we do with hacks, and it mostly works. We can tell sometimes what they have, and we deal with it then. "It doesn't make sense" to punish the masses for the minority, unless we want to change many rules and responses. You want to play, we trust you won't be a cheater, and will deal with you if you do. Honor system, yo, it works enough to make it feasible.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

Fluffy:

I'm not lumping them into the same place, I'm making a comparison. Second, in my opinion, your "too many" should not remove our trust of the masses. But you know what they say about opinions.

Back on the comparison, just the idea of etiquette, play styles, map knowledge and skill levels mean you're only playing the same game superficially. Connection and Lag. Understanding of the nuances and mechanics. We're playing in the same room, with the same rules, but it's not the same game.

If you believe you shouldn't slay on nade round and I believe people should be careful and that we can use what the game has given us, we're already playing a different game. If you know where maps are broken, or abusable, and feel you can use them, and I don't know or don't want to use them, we're playing under different circumstances. Everyone has the same opportunity to get skins to look smoother or better coloured. We don't have to use them for any advantage, we can use them for variety instead.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. You absolutely are lumping these concepts into the same category by justifying them through supposed commonalities, and the commonalities that you describe just do not follow. All of the disparities that you mention regarding ability, knowledge and latency are inherent to the game, and the platform on which it is played. Being a capable player does not mean that you're playing a game different from the one that less capable players are playing. That's an absurd notion. The differences between playing a game by its rules, and changing a game to suit your tastes at the expense of other players should be patently obvious.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. You absolutely are lumping these concepts into the same category by justifying them through supposed commonalities, and the commonalities that you describe just do not follow. All of the disparities that you mention regarding ability, knowledge and latency are inherent to the game, and the platform on which it is played. Being a capable player does not mean that you're playing a game different from the one that less capable players are playing. That's an absurd notion. The differences between playing a game by its rules, and changing a game to suit your tastes at the expense of other players should be patently obvious.

how does me making my p90 look like a tommy gun, or my p228 look like an M1911, or my m4 look like a xM8 come at the expense of other players?

get the fuck off of your high horse fruffles.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

how does me making my p90 look like a tommy gun, or my p228 look like an M1911, or my m4 look like a xM8 come at the expense of other players?

get the fuck off of your high horse fruffles.

Quiet down, Acolyte. Read the previous posts if you want to understand where it is problematic to allow custom content.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Quiet down, Acolyte. Read the previous posts if you want to understand where it is problematic to allow custom content.

nope! nothing there. custom content doesn't ruin anything. sure, sometimes there will be problems, but you know what? people use hacks all the time, use little exploits, and glitches, or scripts that give them an edge. these are problems with the game. thus, we should just completely stop playing at all by your logic. the vast majority of people that use skins just use them to make the game more fun.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

That's fairly non sequitur, Acolyte.

[Blackmage]

The problem you seem to be having, Fluffy, is the "at the expense of other players". How does, to quote Aco, having a tommy gun, change the game for anyone else? It's within the rules of the game, doesn't change any gameplay, just is a personal choice. I can get used to the looks of a tommy gun just as easily as a p90. The sounds as well. The ability to change skins is inherent to the game too. Where is it any different from spending time to learn maps, or just get better at the game? We can all do it.

If you've never watched two people who are playing at the same table on the same board but two different games, I suggest you go watch professionals playing against casual gamers in one of a variety of games. They often abide by two different rulesets, which means they ARE playing different games. The one who plays by the rules "only use the map as the creator intended" vs the "abuse everything within the confines of the rules" ARE playing two different games.

[devour]

setting the server config to not allow custom skins client-side would not cause any major rule changes. it would just make the rule about custom skins superfluous.

when it comes down to it, custom skins are the easiest form of cheating to hide. it is nearly impossible to catch someone using custom skins, unless they give away that information themselves. theyre in the same category as any other form of coded cheat.

would it be game-breaking for some? possibly. would they stop playing on ibis servers? no.

[Blackmage]

I also just realized, while I'm writing how they compare, I got sidetracked. What I was comparing was that they are both used to add some variety to the game. While they are very similar, as I've been saying, my initial point was THAT. We can argue until we're both blue in the face about whether or not they are similar or dissimilar, but the REASONING for using/playing is the variety.

Devour:

I'd vote walls are probably about as easy to abuse, and probably more useful. Both of them, you just have to make sure not to look at things you shouldn't normally be seeing. It's the easier to deal with, though.