America today

[acolyte_to_jippity]

taz do you even watch the news? if soooo plz tell me its not fox

honestly all news shows are crap. none of them are unbiased at all. fox claims to be conservative, but they're not. they're just retards. everything else is so far in liberal territory that it's not even funny.

[Steamer]

penis your funny you also have to look at how he fucked our economy over so badly i mean cmon man he put us into debt to get us out you see how that worked.

I don't even like Obama, but I don't like this statement even more. Are you fucking retarded? Most of the dept was already there and rising, it takes some strong moves to throw the shit in the open to actually try and get the problem fixed. I will agree he contributed a great portion to the dept, but was far from causing it himself. I don't like him or his policy's, do not want to see him re-elected, but I can say he didn't screw up completely.

America has bases everywhere because we have always had a controlling paranoid greedy government more bent on domination than our own people.

I will agree with Curdy, that we are infact headed in almost the same direction Rome took, look what happened.

Again, the hat looks better every passing month.

[ZERO]

When you look at the history of the greatest civilizations you see a trend toward ever growing government, ever expanding debt, until the government ultimately controls all business and all activities. In the case of ancient civilizations the time before collapse was offset due to smuggling abilities and ways around taxes that could be preformed by the common man. After these tax avoiding systems were patched either though better regulation or military force the civilization would then collapse under the weight of is debt and it's tattered economy.

Smaller government, limited centralized power, and having every generation pay of any debts it incurred was the formula for the success of this nation. It is the foundation of a system built from the bottom up where the power and decisions are made close to home in order to preserve freedom. The danger this nation faces is the total disregard for the authority of the Constitution. The fact that a pyramid can not stand upside down was no mystery to our founders. Just remember:

No reasonable man would argue that a pyramid is best supported when its power is derived from a wide base and then distributed upward amongst ever smaller rows. For each row places weight on the base so that if each subsequent row became too much larger than the row before it the foundation may crack. If a pyramid was to be constructed upside down the small rows of stone at the bottom could not withstand the weight of the subsequent rows without external supports strong enough to bound forever the pyramid in place. In this case is the pyramid truly supporting itself or relying on the force of chains, straps and rope to hold it together? No different is the rule of government from the rules of a pyramid. -ZERO <ibis>

[Steamer]

Awesome fucking metaphor.

[Rosie]

America is heading down, but it is not terminal. It can not be terminal, is the only reason. The economy of the United States is what holds the world together economically. If the US collapses the rest of the world would then in turn follow. At the worst comes to worst point all the US has to do is stop exporting food, at a nominal rate and charge more. We feed the world, and that is not a metaphor. We really do. This of course would be the last step taken because we care about the rest of the world. If we kept all grain and produce products at home, our food cost would decrease 3 fold. This in turn would free up more everyday dollars into industy, but at the same time it would cause a huge rift in the world economy. It would break up the UN and destroy all foreign policy. But in all honesty, with the strength of our millitary, we could say fuck off. That being said, the world will not allow the US to make it to that point. We are in a funk, we were at the end of the 20's as well. The comparison to Rome is just plain silly. Rome expanded to a point that they had different agendas going forward, we wont even make Puerto Rico a state.

And as far as the news debate, Fox is slightly right were as all others are extreme left. Having served in Iraq and Affghanistan, there is nothing better than going on a mission and then watching CNN report about the same mission. I saw a report how my unit came under heavy fire and took casualties. We had 2 guys shoot there AK in the air, and our medic broke his jumping off the truck. You will not find accurate news, unless you happen to be there when it happens.

[Curdy]

exactly Rosie this is why the situation is critical, the fiat currency is a failure and is abused, big governments hate gold standard because they cant abuse it like fiat. foreign policy and war is something that is also bleeding your country dry. But i am aware there are some concerns about Dr. Paul that seem to be distorted misinformed and untrue.

mostly when it comes to foreign policy, iran and his libertarian views.

well rome is similar in that it pretty much went bankrupt and had vast armies all over the place. like todays america with bases all over the world

[Chikun]

Murrika > Yurop

[Curdy]

come again?

[ZERO]

As far as Rome goes I would suggest people check this out: http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-R.../dp/0679423087

This Book is the most extensive account of the decline of Rome ever published. It clarifies that there was a vast number of interrelated things that resulted in the decline of the empire.

This is also why I referred to civilizations and not Rome because the situation that I described is an issue that is not unique to Rome nor to any other failed civilization. The reason people like to talk about Rome in relation to the States is that Rome like the US was a Republic. However the major flaw was that the Roman Republic had no written Constitution that it was required to follow.

However as we all know Octavius stripped the senate of all power but still kept elections to create the illusion that there was freedom. He then took the title of First Citizen instead of emperor or king ect in order to further fulfill the illusion the people were now ruled by a tyrant. When he fully took power his full name became Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus with Augustus being placed on his name by the senate itself.

The title Augustus can also tell us a lot about tyrants, the most dangerous are the ones who are also "the revered one". In the last 100 years we have had such a revered tyrant called Hitler. These are the sorts of problems that occur when peopole throw away freedom for security and knowledge for ignorant bliss, they become like sheep or cattle to be sent for slaughter.

Do you believe men are sheep and should be lead about by the powers of government? Does government exist becuase the sheep can not take care of themselves? Is man so ill fated without the power of government that he can not stand on his feet and grab a leaf from a tree when the field is baron? Or do you believe that men are like goats who require no Shepherd to find their food? Do you believe that like a goat man can stand up and find leaves on a tree in a baron field? Do you believe in the power and freedom of the individual man or in the mindless mod run by the chosen few? These questions hark at the very religious and psychosocial concepts that define man and his existence. Was man created to be like a stone where each person has their individual shape and size, where each has his place on a wall where the stones link perfectly together? Or is man like a brick each made to fit predefined criteria so that they may perfectly interlock in such a way that every brick is the same and there is no way to distinguish one form the other?

I say we already have the answer from God thousands of years ago in the story of what occurred when Nimrod, a hunter of man, tired to mold stone to brick and construct a tower no flood could stop, a tower too large to fail. I also say that the only way to avoid destruction is to stop listing to all these nimrods and be like of the twelve who openly refused to make bricks.

[Carmichal]

Honestly it's a mix of sheep and goats... some people are too stupid, ignorant, arrogant or other reasons, in which should not under any circumstance lead themselves, or others. You probably know a few people in power who really shouldn't, like an ass hole manger, or someone incapable of leading themselves, like a crack whore. Goats as you mention them ZERO are true born leaders. Generally, in my opinion, goats rise to the top naturally. Leaders tend to be more aggressive, charismatic, and intelligent.

Right now I think our government is goats in sheep's clothing. If they weren't leaders they never would of got there, it takes a lot to campaign, but now that they are there they become pussies, idiots, or both.

(this tangent brought to you by Michelle, enjoy)