Balancing weapons.

[What]

A player playing human with a tmp it's better than one with m4 because your target will be bashed more often if you know how to control the recoil well.

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

Again, if your running in close quarters, sure it will bash, freezing the target allowing you to kill them, but this is VERY situational, I have never seen a human with a tmp running around a map like cbble and killing all in his wake, he would be toasted if he tried it.

[brett friggin favre]

the tmp is not better than the m4 from long range in any circumstance. yes it has a slightly higher fire rate but more spread over that long distance. any shooting skill whatsoever will yield more procs with the m4 than the tmp. also, damaging skills are usually based on percentage, making the more powerful weapons.....more powerful. as they should be.

[LogaN]

Since some of you still dont understand ill explain like you were 5yr.

Example for dummies:

skill: 100% proc chance + 15 extra dmg

tmp 5 secs shooting:

10 bullets(1dmg per bullet) = 10 procs

total dmg 160

m4 5 secs shooting:

7 bullets(2dmg per bullet) = 7 procs

total dmg 119


Since when tmp should do more dmg than a m4?

[Bane of Soldiers]

You should pick the weapon you like the one its better for the map or the situacion you are on. Not the one that gives you more procs.
The way it is even from afar a p90 can be better than a scout because it procs alot more so you will do more dmg.

...Maybe I should mention that your team, the enemy team, and the map influences these preferences? Preference of using one weapon over another? It seems like you're agreeing with me...? It all depends on your weapon preferences: how you like your gun to work and how well you can make it work. Versatility brah.


With that said, what's wrong with the P90 proc'ing more? Versus using a scout, there are a lot of areas that the scout is theoretically better. But then you have to consider how these factors affect you as a player. Adaptability and versatility. If you can account for the P90's losses through race abilities, experience, and strategy, you would be able to stay strong in all ranges and most situations. Things like learning how to work with the gun's recoil to play long arm and get the speed boost from a race skill or through strafing/bhopping. The firing rate and proc percentage was already a strength of the P90 to begin with. At this point, we're talking about the skills of a player, not about an imbalance of weapons. And as natural selection works, this is why you see a lot of fast firing weapons. They work better to a player's situation.


As an afterthought, of course there are situations in which a scout might be superior to other weapons. Example: a human with a scout on de_dolls.

[Blackmage]

You're not serious... You insult us then proceed to explain what 100% proc rate is? Now, I know you want to project onto other people, but it would be more useful to give an example that shows new information, not that 1+1=2.

[LogaN]

You're not serious... You insult us then proceed to explain what 100% proc rate is? Now, I know you want to project onto other people, but it would be more useful to give an example that shows new information, not that 1+1=2.

Where did i insult anyone? If "dummies" is an insult there im sorry because in my country it isn't...

And i used 100%, 1 and 2 because it's easy to understand.... i don't know the exact number they do per bullet... But im sure the way it's working now they are doing more dmg in the same amount of time.

If this wasn't true people wouldn't say that it's better to left click than right click as rapscalion.

[Blackmage]

When is calling someone 5 years old not an insult? Dummy, by itself, is not an insult. Dummy, when right after calling someone a child is suggesting they have the intelligence of a child.

1 and 2 was not the problem. 100% proc rate is. Everyone (should) know what a 100% proc rate is. If 100% proc rate for all weapons is what you were going for, you could have said so somewhere. In which case, you don't understand balance. If that is NOT, please give a useful example.

[LogaN]

When is calling someone 5 years old not an insult?

... I don't consider that an insult thats like saying that someone smells bad or is fat they might dont like it but isn't an insult...

please give a useful example.

I did in my last post left clicking is better than right clicking.

[Blackmage]

Telling someone they smell bad, or they are fat, when they ARE, is NOT an insult, correct. However, calling someone something they are NOT, such as calling someone fat who is not, or calling an adult a child, IS an insult. I'm not sure where you live that you think it isn't.

You didn't give a right click vs left click example. All you said is that it's some people's opinion one is better. Nothing on how it will work in your version.

[brett friggin favre]

maybe i should explain for retards from other planets.

1. you missed the part where i said most of our damaging skills are percentage based. meaning the more damage the bullet does, the more damage the skill does.

2. you missed the part where i brought about the idea of accuracy, and spread, particularly over range.

you're assuming perfect accuracy and not taking into account percent damage. when you take those things into account, yes the tmp will outperform the m4 at very close range, but that's how it is really. the m4 will outperform the tmp when you take how the server actually works into account at mid/long range. and that's just a microcosm of the weapon balance as a whole. no changes need to be made, none will be made. the balance of weapons was taken into account when the races were created and optimized. also you're using arbitrary numbers for standard bullet damage which make no sense and actual numbers of base bullet damage would wipe out the difference in procs (also using arbitrary numbers) that you pointed out.