Connecticut Elementary Violence

[HK5150]

Wow! I just read through some articles regarding the elementary school shooting in Connecticut. I hope none of your families were affected by this. This has got to be the most horrible story I've seen so far in the US. I know it isn't the most violent but damn, all those children dead. What a world we live in...

~HK

[thecat]

My grand parents live in Connecticut but they are fine.
I hope they find out what caused this guy to do this.

[Nemesis]

My grand parents live in Connecticut but they are fine.
I hope they find out what caused this guy to do this.

He was probably on a forum that let you stay. See IBIS? Not even once.

[-=Toy=-=Québec=-FR]

Wow! I just read through some articles regarding the elementary school shooting in Connecticut. I hope none of your families were affected by this. This has got to be the most horrible story I've seen so far in the US. I know it isn't the most violent but damn, all those children dead. What a world we live in...

~HK
D:
Schiss ! I saw this on the news tonight !

[thecat]

So your now doing what What is doing, just STFU asshole.
And if your going to post on this thread than stick to the subject.

[Rapedollar$]

Both of you shut the fuck up. Pay your respects or don't post.

[What]

Wow! I just read through some articles regarding the elementary school shooting in Connecticut. I hope none of your families were affected by this. This has got to be the most horrible story I've seen so far in the US. I know it isn't the most violent but damn, all those children dead. What a world we live in...

~HK

You know its terrible, regardless of any issues the guy would did this may of had, he still deserves a special place in hell. People can't seem to cope with problems anymore and they seek to do as much hurt as they can before they take the cowards way out.

[XX0wnsXY]

I dont have kids. I am generally uneffected by mass shootings, as I know people snap occasionally, however, this has effected me deeply. I feel such sorrow for the childrens family. I lost my only brother to gun violence when I was 20 and it was an overwhelmingly heavy hit to me at that age. I know what my parents endured knowing their child died before them. I spent life as a sister who had suddenly become an only child. these families have such a long road ahead of them. this happens everyday, and although a mass shooting brought it to light, families suffer everyday from nonsencical violence. my thoughts and prayers are not enough, but thats all I can offer.

[thecat]

The big question is are we paying more attention to these mass shootings or is there something causing them to happen more often.
And if so what is it.
:question:

[XX0wnsXY]

The big question is are we paying more attention to these mass shootings or is there something causing them to happen more often.
And if so what is it.
:question:

no..."we" cover every mass shooting the same. they may seem more often, but reality is, media drives it all. we make the shooter imfamous and everything else is forgotten. this time though, I actually saw news channels refuse to say the shooters name for that reason alone. it will never get better, but how we handle it, will.

[Assassin]

The sad reality is we will never know. Personally I think it's reactions like trollathon retard Nem up there who can't seem to get his head out of his ass long enough to realize he does permanent things to people (and if you got shot by someone you fucked around with and I was on the jury...not guilty just saying)

[StarsMine]

The big question is are we paying more attention to these mass shootings or is there something causing them to happen more often.
And if so what is it.
:question:
more often then what? violent crime is lower now then it has been for a good while.
Its terrible what happens, I feel the same as owns with the mass shootings sentiment.

I just got home, I was flying the past day, so I did not see the news, if they really did what owns said, thats amazing (though I half feel that was due to the confusion on what happend for most of that day).

[Assassin]

Nah it was the confusion the media never does anything out of the interest of public opinion..nah never...ha. Also the actual police officers and such who daisy chained the kids out telling them to look down and keep hands on the shoulders of those in front of them...now that was intentional and smart.

[Nemesis]

The sad reality is we will never know. Personally I think it's reactions like trollathon retard Nem up there who can't seem to get his head out of his ass long enough to realize he does permanent things to people (and if you got shot by someone you fucked around with and I was on the jury...not guilty just saying)

If what I say permanently effects anyone then you probably do need to kill yourself. If anyone ways that this will actually effect them for longer than a few days is either lying or stupid. Also they don't let people on juries who are too stupid to do things right so you'll get out of jury duty no problem.

[Assassin]

Hmm already been on a jury twice...one for a DUI and one for a theft....so guess you're wrong again nem. Fuck off and die now please. The human race doesn't need pieces of shit like you clouding up the rest of our good natures.

[Chef C Green]

If anyone ways that this will actually effect them for longer than a few days is either lying or stupid.

Nemesis, while I'm sure no one really cares about your normal negative posts, this thread doesn't need them. Though you were probably referring to our community members in the above post, take a second to think about the families, friends, cousins, grandparents, aunts/uncles, and the friends of THOSE people that WILL be affected for longer than a few days. Put a foot in your mouth and be respectful.


Both of you shut the fuck up. Pay your respects or don't post.

Indeed. I first heard about the incident via Google the night of the incident with their dedication candle. Though it may not make a difference, I want to offer my deepest condolences to families that lost significant others from this tragedy. As Own's said, we lose people every day, and while we don't always acknowledge those devastating incidents to the degree of a mass shooting, it makes me remember how fortunate I am to have all those I care about still in my life.

[Carmichal]

I can't imagine how someone can do something so horrible. It just doesn't make any sense. My thoughts for everyone affected after this horrible tragedy. I have been bullied so bad I was forced to change schools, but never in my life would I try to kill a person to express my anger. Whatever reason he had for doing this, it was not just. How can anyone justify killing twenty children, who have no way of defending themselves. All the others will have a permanent scar. They thought they were safe in that school. I wonder how they will cope going back.

Sorry if I am rambling, it's hard to find the right words.

[thecat]

One of the worst parts about this story is that in a few weeks the media will stop giving a fuck and no action will be taken to stop this form happening again.
I hope that some kind off legislation will happen because of this, like maybe a bit more gun control so you cant have a 30 round magazine.

[StarsMine]

One of the worst parts about this story is that in a few weeks the media will stop giving a fuck and no action will be taken to stop this form happening again.
I hope that some kind off legislation will happen because of this, like maybe a bit more gun control so you cant have a 30 round magazine.
I dont think you understand, no laws will stop this from happening again. a crazy person is a crazy person. If a crazy person is going to mow down people, do you think they care if they break gun control laws? The way to prevent this is a societal change (that has already happened, hence why violent crime is lower then it has been in the past, that was society changing not laws). An insane person is an unpredictable person, psychopaths will always exist. Preventing crimes like this is like trying to prevent terrorism via the TSA, it just does not work. A terrorist can easily get around the TSA. A psychopath can easily get around laws.

Do gun control laws need reform, yes, should this be part of the reform, I dont think so.

[Dj panda]

Its a fucked up situation. The kid was a a Fucked up kid from the start, smart but insane. What i want to know is Why the fuck didnt the mother have a better place for the guns, if you have that kind of kid who you know can do this, id have a heavy duty gun safe...

[StarsMine]

Its a fucked up situation. The kid was a a Fucked up kid from the start, smart but insane. What i want to know is Why the fuck didnt the mother have a better place for the guns, if you have that kind of kid who you know can do this, id have a heavy duty gun safe...
phychopaths are insanely good at hiding their phychopathic mind to others.
like those news reports talking to neighbors "He was a good kid" every time, every single time.

[XX0wnsXY]

Wether you have anyone who is mentally ill living in the household or not, guns should be kept safely. If people haven't learned by now how to keep their guns, after all the shit that happens, they're crazy.

[Carmichal]

One of the worst parts about this story is that in a few weeks the media will stop giving a fuck and no action will be taken to stop this form happening again.
I hope that some kind off legislation will happen because of this, like maybe a bit more gun control so you cant have a 30 round magazine.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Starsmine said it right. If someone wants to something this horrible they will do it with or without gun laws.

They are passing a law in Texas that lets college students carry guns with them, and that makes me feel safer. If some manic wants to shoot up the school some one has a way to stop them before too many lives are lost.

But even better than having a way to protect yourself is to have better mental health care. Reach out to these disturbed people in a more productive way, and also have a better way of finding them as well.

Will we ever be free of mindless violence like this, not likely. But we can be more active in stopping what we can.

I'd like to end noting that not all mentally ill people are like this. You don't need to be afraid of them.

[ZERO]

Imagine if someone else in the school had a gun to stop him with...

I wish more would realize the benefits of having the ability to defend ones self regardless of where you are.

[StarsMine]

Imagine if someone else in the school had a gun to stop him with...

I wish more would realize the benefits of having the ability to defend ones self regardless of where you are.
the problem with this logic is that it often can end up in a chaotic fire fight, no one knowing who started who and more bullets flying everywhere then there needed to be.
Have you ever played trouble in TT on gmod?

[Assassin]

and on top of that how many innocent bystanders get hit by random shots then? Training is what is needed...and probably should be mandatory...then in case of emergency break face.

[Bane of Soldiers]

Wasn't the shooter wearing armor anyway? I heard about this on Friday in my economics class; it's sickening to think about. For what it's worth, I offer my condolences to those affected by the shooting.

[Assassin]

Yeah he had body armor...nothing for his head though. One shot one kill style him.

[Nemesis]

Imagine if someone else in the school had a gun to stop him with...

I wish more would realize the benefits of having the ability to defend ones self regardless of where you are.

People like you are the reason these shootings are so localized to the United States. You think MORE guns would help? There's really no sense arguing Gun Control with Americans, they're just so off from the rest of the world and can't see things like regular people.

No one should have the right to own a gun. It should not be easy to own a gun. There is no need for anyone other than the police or military to own anything better than a hunting rifle or shotgun. Having assault rifles for "self defense" is asinine and until America sees that this kind of stuff is going to just keep happening, so grab some popcorn and have a seat.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

People like you are the reason these shootings are so localized to the United States. You think MORE guns would help? There's really no sense arguing Gun Control with Americans, they're just so off from the rest of the world and can't see things like regular people.

No one should have the right to own a gun. It should not be easy to own a gun. There is no need for anyone other than the police or military to own anything better than a hunting rifle or shotgun. Having assault rifles for "self defense" is asinine and until America sees that this kind of stuff is going to just keep happening, so grab some popcorn and have a seat.

i'll give you the assault rifles bit. but otherwise, actually think for once. meth, crack, heroine, acid...these are all illegal. by your logic, that means they don't exist. fuck that. they're all over. i could buy a gram/rock/hit/whateverthefuckyouwant of any of those within two hours. laws stop only one group of people from doing things: law-abiding citizens. criminals, by their definition, break laws. they will still obtain guns. they well still use them. only difference, they could be damn sure the person they're about to rob/kill can't defend themselves.

[Carmichal]

i'll give you the assault rifles bit. but otherwise, actually think for once. meth, crack, heroine, acid...these are all illegal. by your logic, that means they don't exist. fuck that. they're all over. i could buy a gram/rock/hit/whateverthefuckyouwant of any of those within two hours. laws stop only one group of people from doing things: law-abiding citizens. criminals, by their definition, break laws. they will still obtain guns. they well still use them. only difference, they could be damn sure the person they're about to rob/kill can't defend themselves.

amen! Also the constitution lets us have militias (with guns). Thus we have the right to have assault rifles. Why? Our founding fathers hated big gov. and their military with big guns.

[Nemesis]

i'll give you the assault rifles bit. but otherwise, actually think for once. meth, crack, heroine, acid...these are all illegal. by your logic, that means they don't exist. fuck that. they're all over. i could buy a gram/rock/hit/whateverthefuckyouwant of any of those within two hours. laws stop only one group of people from doing things: law-abiding citizens. criminals, by their definition, break laws. they will still obtain guns. they well still use them. only difference, they could be damn sure the person they're about to rob/kill can't defend themselves.

Your point about it only stopping law abiding citizens would stand up if only it were true. I want you to look at all these recent shootings and tell me how many of them were conducted with legally owned guns. This one was. I understand we're going to differ on this, but no one needs to have these guns.

Criminals will still obtains guns, always. That's why street gangs running around with grenades are so dangerous these days. Oh wait, they're not? You're saying there hasn't been a single grenade killing in the United States? But grenades are legal to own? or maybe because it's difficult as shit to be approved to own them. I bet if you could walk into K-mart and pick up a 12 pack of grenades it would be a serious issue. Then why isn't it the same with guns? Guns are everywhere because it's so easy to get them. I, as a foreign citizen, was able to walk into a gun store in Michigan and they had no problems selling me a gun. does that not seem wrong to you? how easy it is?


amen! Also the constitution lets us have militias (with guns). Thus we have the right to have assault rifles. Why? Our founding fathers hated big gov. and their military with big guns.

You're an idiot. The founding fathers were worried about the fucking British they just fought landing right the fuck op on the shore and ruining America's day. The constitution was written in a different time and the second amendment was written with different threats in mind. It was also written to say blacks arn't people, so I guess you agree with that too, and women so I guess your opinion doesn't matter anyways. TO THE KITCHEN WITH YOU WENCH!

[StarsMine]

Your point about it only stopping law abiding citizens would stand up if only it were true. I want you to look at all these recent shootings and tell me how many of them were conducted with legally owned guns. This one was. I understand we're going to differ on this, but no one needs to have these guns.

Criminals will still obtains guns, always. That's why street gangs running around with grenades are so dangerous these days. Oh wait, they're not? You're saying there hasn't been a single grenade killing in the United States? But grenades are legal to own? or maybe because it's difficult as shit to be approved to own them. I bet if you could walk into K-mart and pick up a 12 pack of grenades it would be a serious issue. Then why isn't it the same with guns? Guns are everywhere because it's so easy to get them. I, as a foreign citizen, was able to walk into a gun store in Michigan and they had no problems selling me a gun. does that not seem wrong to you? how easy it is?



You're an idiot. The founding fathers were worried about the fucking British they just fought landing right the fuck op on the shore and ruining America's day. The constitution was written in a different time and the second amendment was written with different threats in mind. It was also written to say blacks arn't people, so I guess you agree with that too, and women so I guess your opinion doesn't matter anyways. TO THE KITCHEN WITH YOU WENCH!
Gang violence has gone down due to societal changes (Tupac and BIG being a big reason for that), not necessarily from gun control. And the 2nd amendment was there (as far as my knowledge tells me) so the people can rebel from a tyrannical government (like England was to the colonies).

Even though the government is not tyrannical now, and I dont see the supreme court ever letting them become that, however congress is inept and if the wrong guy becomes president all hell breaks loose. The checks and balances work well, however we have all seen obscene power grabs on both congress and the executive branch, have the checks and balances been reworked to work well in the current environment? yes, they have but the system was not immediately in place, that took the court saying what was constitutional after things happened.

I do not see what difference it makes if your a foreign citizen when getting a gun, you are a citizen and should be treated as one, foreign or not. As for you comment on the recent shootings, yes they may have been legally gotten, however things like the dark knight shootings were pre-meditated, I personally do not think having them illegal would have changed it considering how well he planed what he did.

Grenades, people just make their own when they use them. They are easy to make, take little know how, the need to buy them is only done by the government to standardize them.

And I relize I should not be debating things a 3AM as I usually, at some point some where say some thought that was only a quarter of the way of being thought all the way through.

[Nemesis]

Gang violence has gone down due to societal changes (Tupac and BIG being a big reason for that), not necessarily from gun control. And the 2nd amendment was there (as far as my knowledge tells me) so the people can rebel from a tyrannical government (like England was to the colonies).

Even though the government is not tyrannical now, and I dont see the supreme court ever letting them become that, however congress is inept and if the wrong guy becomes president all hell breaks loose. The checks and balances work well, however we have all seen obscene power grabs on both congress and the executive branch, have the checks and balances been reworked to work well in the current environment? yes, they have but the system was not immediately in place, that took the court saying what was constitutional after things happened.

I do not see what difference it makes if your a foreign citizen when getting a gun, you are a citizen and should be treated as one, foreign or not. As for you comment on the recent shootings, yes they may have been legally gotten, however things like the dark knight shootings were pre-meditated, I personally do not think having them illegal would have changed it considering how well he planed what he did.

Grenades, people just make their own when they use them. They are easy to make, take little know how, the need to buy them is only done by the government to standardize them.

You misunderstood, when I say Foreign citizen, I mean I'm Canadian. I'm not an American citizen nor do I have American documents. The reasoning for the second amendment has been changed and manipulated by whoever needs it. It was originally meant for if the British did come back to reclaim the colony, they wanted everyone to have a musket so they could throw together enough of a fighting force to push them back. Or at least give the real army time to mobilize and move to where they were needed.

Substitute gangs with anything, that was the wrong point to take out of what I said.

If the guns used in these shootings were illegal or more complicated to get, then they simply wouldn't have existed to be used in these situations. You guys should see how crazy it is to get a gun up here. And that's just for a standard hunting rifle or shotgun, the process is even longer and harder if you're talking about a concealed weapon. To get anything else, even the C8's I use at work, is impossible, we just don't let people have that stuff.

[ZERO]

I think they made it pretty clear why we have guns:

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

Lets have Pain say what I already said with fancier words:
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

But lets see some more...

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."


But hey what could go wrong!?
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"

[Nemesis]

I think they made it pretty clear why we have guns:

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

Lets have Pain say what I already said with fancier words:
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

But lets see some more...

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."


But hey what could go wrong!?
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"

I can post un sourced quotes that lend nothing to the discussion as well if you'd like.

One day you'll be able to join the rest of the world and stop living 200 years in the past. Enjoy your slavery.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Your point about it only stopping law abiding citizens would stand up if only it were true. I want you to look at all these recent shootings and tell me how many of them were conducted with legally owned guns. This one was. I understand we're going to differ on this, but no one needs to have these guns.

Criminals will still obtains guns, always. That's why street gangs running around with grenades are so dangerous these days. Oh wait, they're not? You're saying there hasn't been a single grenade killing in the United States? But grenades are legal to own? or maybe because it's difficult as shit to be approved to own them. I bet if you could walk into K-mart and pick up a 12 pack of grenades it would be a serious issue. Then why isn't it the same with guns? Guns are everywhere because it's so easy to get them. I, as a foreign citizen, was able to walk into a gun store in Michigan and they had no problems selling me a gun. does that not seem wrong to you? how easy it is?


to be fair, the thought of you actually being allowed into this country makes me incredibly disappointed and sad.

[phil.™]

I was shocked, and hurt when I heard this. I mean, these are children, just looking forward to the weekend, Christmas, etc.
I don't know if you guys read this article, but this woman is a true hero.

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20656736_20657003,00.html

I doubt many will read it, so I'll summarize it. Victoria Soto, a 1st-grade teacher at the school heard the gun shots, and immediately told her students to hide in the closets, and inside the cabinets. When the shooter came to her class, he asked where the kids were, and she said they were in gym class. He shot her, and moved to the next class. She died right there, and her kids lived.

True hero.

[Nemesis]

I was shocked, and hurt when I heard this. I mean, these are children, just looking forward to the weekend, Christmas, etc.
I don't know if you guys read this article, but this woman is a true hero.

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20656736_20657003,00.html

I doubt many will read it, so I'll summarize it. Victoria Soto, a 1st-grade teacher at the school heard the gun shots, and immediately told her students to hide in the closets, and inside the cabinets. When the shooter came to her class, he asked where the kids were, and she said they were in gym class. He shot her, and moved to the next class. She died right there, and her kids lived.

True hero.

All well and good but what about the guys who were actually in the gym? Short end of the stick on that one.

[Erdenay]

I've stayed out of this thread for the longest time as I didn't have anything to say that I had not said. However, just wanted to quickly point out 2 things:

I) You may want to notice how much this thread has been derailed and just move the discussion to another one if you really want to honour those people?

II) I can't believe I agree with Nemesis on a serious issue, but I pretty much agree with a vast majority of things he wrote. I highly recommend looking into statistics and testimonies in some other countries (most of European countries) where guns are highly restricted and where's barely any violence or shootings (in fact, any incidents like that where you have a lot of loss of lives).

[Assassin]

Or look at the one with the lowest amount of physical violence (sweden or switzerland or w/e it is I'm at work) and they do have less control than the US. It doesn't matter where you are, if people wanna find them they will. It's a societal thing not a will this law work or not work thing.

[ZERO]

I did not list the who on the quotes b/c it should be obvious who said what. But for those who just love the last one I highly suggest you look up who's quote that is...

Lets also remember that this same weekend there was also 22 kids in China that were stabbed outside of their school. Guns or not people do crazy shit, you can either defend yourself from them or hope for the best.

[StarsMine]

I did not list the who on the quotes b/c it should be obvious who said what. But for those who just love the last one I highly suggest you look up who's quote that is...

Lets also remember that this same weekend there was also 22 kids in China that were stabbed outside of their school. Guns or not people do crazy shit, you can either defend yourself from them or hope for the best.
im sorry the last one, The wild west was called the wild west for a reason, Violent crime was rampant back then. There needs to be some form of gun control laws, at least back then when using a gun you had no more then 6 shots w/o reloading. For self defense and hunting there is no need for 30 bullet clips, there is little need for automatic weaponry.
I think almost everyone has a right to a gun, however, there is a middle ground. I really dont care about canadiens getting our weapons nemisis, however there needs to be a longer application process, like there is for getting a passport. It should be more then a simple back ground check.

[HK5150]

In 1929 we had the worst attack on children to date in the US. An aggravated farmer detonated TNT in a school to protest tax hikes upon his farm. 40 children died. Our Constitution is based upon the King James Bible and the Magna Carta. Our 2nd ammendment has everything to do with supporting a person's right to free choice. Can't we just mourn our loss and start to look for a definative way to deal with the issues we face as a world? The pistols used aren't restricted in either Canada or America. Violence is on a person/capita statistical decline in this century. We are moving in the right direction. We just need to focus on the correct issue. If I shoot a person, legally or not, my handgun will never go on trial. I would have decided to pull the trigger and no one or anything else would have. Grieve for the children and make rememberance through helping those in need. Try to make up some ground for those that lost their lives before they could fully act...

[ZERO]

im sorry the last one,

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" -Hitler

[brett friggin favre]

psychoanalyzing grips affixed to every firearm.

someone who hasn't lost his marbles can use a gun all he wants. if you've gone psychotic, the gun won't fire.

[ZERO]

psychoanalyzing grips affixed to every firearm.

someone who hasn't lost his marbles can use a gun all he wants. if you've gone psychotic, the gun won't fire.

Watching Psycho-Pass I see...

[brett friggin favre]

Watching Psycho-Pass I see...

no idea what that is, i'm just a fucking genius.

[Vladninja]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Vladninja/430922_3449723662324_1916035741_n_zps07a0a1c6.jpg

[Nemesis]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/Vladninja/430922_3449723662324_1916035741_n_zps07a0a1c6.jpg

You really should do your research before you make yourself sound like an idiot. Passing out NRA propaganda makes you sound like a stupid redneck.

There was no shooting stopped, this kid still shot 10 people and beat his mother to death and wasn't until after that a former police officer stopped him. Your point is invalid.

[Vladninja]

You really should do your research before you make yourself sound like an idiot. Passing out NRA propaganda makes you sound like a stupid redneck.

There was no shooting stopped, this kid still shot 10 people and beat his mother to death and wasn't until after that a former police officer stopped him. Your point is invalid.

Yeah hate to call you out on this one but... He was still stopped by a man with a gun and the death count still could have been higher... also he wasn't stopped by a cop.

"However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car."

You wanna check your facts again... "Oh I heard it on the internet it must be true..." Shit Nemesis I had more respect for you than this...

@also all my family and myself were born above the mason dixon line so tech. I was born a Yankee but thanks for blindly trying. I would think by now you have know me long enough to not question my intelligence

[Nemesis]

hahaha Yeah hate to call you out on this one but...

The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.

"Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat, he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School.
However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car."

You wanna check your facts again... "Oh I heard it on the internet it must be true..." Shit Nemesis I had more respect for you than this...

Retard, you just proved what you said is nothing but propaganda. Your silly picture was designed to make it look like guns saved all these people, when in fact, they did nothing. Try harder Nazi.

[Bane of Soldiers]

Watching Psycho-Pass I see...

LOL that show was the first thing that popped in my mind as well

[Vladninja]

Retard, you just proved what you said is nothing but propaganda. Your silly picture was designed to make it look like guns saved all these people, when in fact, they did nothing. Try harder Nazi.
If I were a nazi you wouldnt be here... ever thought of that? Do you know how many times a vote to ban you from the forums has come up and Ive said "Look every group has an asshole and Nemesis is our asshole."

---------- Post added at 01:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 AM ----------


Retard, you just proved what you said is nothing but propaganda. Your silly picture was designed to make it look like guns saved all these people, when in fact, they did nothing. Try harder Nazi.
"However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car."
How did that not solve things?

[Nemesis]

If I were a nazi you wouldnt be here... ever thought of that? Do you know how many times a vote to ban you from the forums has come up and Ive said "Look every group has an asshole and Nemesis is our asshole.

Never said Nazis are bad people, just saying they're bad at propaganda. Actually I take that back, they were pretty decent at it. Either way your post was wrong and tried to play up on a lack of information that gun nuts use all the time. The saddest thing I can think of is that there are people actually fighting a ban on guns in schools. Like, it should be a clear cut case, no? Unfortunately everyone thinks they can be a hero and don't see reality that they will end up killing so many more people.

Edit for your edit.

He had finished his shooting anyways. Sure he said after that he was going to another school, but he wouldn't have made it. Police response time is in the 2-3 minute range and I can tell you for something like this it would be on the quick end of the scale. If anything he would have given up when he got surrounded, because lets face it, if he was serious about this he would have just shot the principle as well and moved on. But he pussied out and gave up.


FUCK. you really need to stop editing your posts after I start typing... I said it makes you sound like a dumb redneck, not that you are one. And your poor understanding of gun rights is not a fault of you, but rather your whole people. Institutionalized stupidity is not the fault of those in the institution.

[Vladninja]

Never said Nazis are bad people, just saying they're bad at propaganda. Actually I take that back, they were pretty decent at it. Either way your post was wrong and tried to play up on a lack of information that gun nuts use all the time. The saddest thing I can think of is that there are people actually fighting a ban on guns in schools. Like, it should be a clear cut case, no? Unfortunately everyone thinks they can be a hero and don't see reality that they will end up killing so many more people.

Edit for your edit.

He had finished his shooting anyways. Sure he said after that he was going to another school, but he wouldn't have made it. Police response time is in the 2-3 minute range and I can tell you for something like this it would be on the quick end of the scale. If anything he would have given up when he got surrounded, because lets face it, if he was serious about this he would have just shot the principle as well and moved on. But he pussied out and gave up.

Lets agree to disagree and still none of it made the media... whether the principal took him down or not I never heard of the story until months later...
because here in america it doesn't make good news to promote that guns can stop crime...
I manage a pizza place and have been held up at gun point. Until you have had a gun to your face you have no idea what it means to feel helpless.
My only regret is that there wasn't a gun under the counter or on myself to stop the asshole...
I asked him are you serious at which point he pulled the chamber back... if I had known there wasn't a round already in the chamber... I would have beat the fuck out of this guy.

You have that happen to you and then come tell me you don't want to live in a country where gun control is legal...

[Nemesis]

Lets agree to disagree and still none of it made the media... whether the principal took him down or not I never heard of the story until months later...
because here in america it doesn't make good news to promote that guns can stop crime...
I manage a pizza place and have been held up at gun point. Until you have had a gun to your face you have no idea what it means to feel helpless.
My only regret is that there wasn't a gun under the counter or on myself to stop the asshole...
I asked him are you serious at which point he pulled the chamber back... if I had known there wasn't a round already in the chamber... I would have beat the fuck out of this guy.

You have that happen to you and then come tell me you don't want to live in a country where gun control is legal...

Do you know why they took the panic buttons out of banks? Because the guy with the gun looks for actions like that and will shoot you. Now, lets assume that the guy robbing the pizza place isn't a total dumb-ass (which he probably was...or black, or something). you think you could reach under the counter and get your weapon out, load it, and shoot before he can pull the trigger? I don't think so. The guy's gonna be jumpy he'll probably shoot you if you sneeze.

I've never been held at gun point because people in my country don't have guns. In my city there has been one gun homicide in the last couple dozen years, and it was done by an American.
Or it could also be because I have one of these at work... http://soldiersystems.net/2011/10/23/rcmp-adopts-c8-carbine/

[HK5150]

Do you know why they took the panic buttons out of banks? Because the guy with the gun looks for actions like that and will shoot you. Now, lets assume that the guy robbing the pizza place isn't a total dumb-ass (which he probably was...or black, or something). you think you could reach under the counter and get your weapon out, load it, and shoot before he can pull the trigger? I don't think so. The guy's gonna be jumpy he'll probably shoot you if you sneeze.

I've never been held at gun point because people in my country don't have guns. In my city there has been one gun homicide in the last couple dozen years, and it was done by an American.
Or it could also be because I have one of these at work... http://soldiersystems.net/2011/10/23/rcmp-adopts-c8-carbine/

I thought you said you are Canadian? During a 2012 review Canada was 22 guns per hundred people. And you just repealed your long-gun registry in October. I think your population density, gun culture, and overall laid back culture changes things drastically...

[maynard]

people in my country don't have guns.


yes they do

[-=Toy=-=Québec=-FR]

yes they do

Texas, Canada! Thanks to Stephen Harper ... D: :reddot:


Canada has had some form of gun control since the 1800s, but Liberal government legislation in 1995 called for the registration of all firearms, including shotguns and rifles, not just restricted firearms such as assault rifles and automatic weapons. The skyrocketing costs of the gun control registry and the election of a minority Conservative government in 2006 keep this issue high profile in Canada.


The Canadian Conservative government brings in another bill to end the long-gun registry

[Assassin]

Haha...oh Nem. You won't win this.

[StarsMine]

actually, Nem is quite the debator, also, its not about winning a debate, its about getting others to criticly think about a new face of an issue and take the good ideas from it.

[HK5150]

actually, Nem is quite the debator, also, its not about winning a debate, its about getting others to criticly think about a new face of an issue and take the good ideas from it.

I agree that the process of debating is in good order. When you start refering to people as idiots, Nazis, and rednecks, you just lose credibility. Also, his facts are way off. Again, this has sparked a debate on gun control instead of personal choice and responsibility. I often respond to these types of statements w/ the following:

1. A bullet has not killed anyone in the history of the human race.

2. A twinkie has never made anyone fat.

3. Alcohol has never caused a DUI.

At some point we need to focus on guiding ourselves and those we are responsible for to make good decisions that will help elevate our communities. There is so much specualtion going on w/ this atrocity right now and it is hard to even pinpoint the motive due to the murder of his mother. I repeat, we should honor the victims by focusing on good works in our communities. Surely there is something that you've seen that has bothered you a bit that you could help with. I believe that since these individuals are gone we can support that loss by making an active effort in helping those around us. Let's make sure that we support our food banks, home building/repair volunteer programs, and in general, just be helpful. We can celebrate the potential for their success by taking just a small moment and doing something selfless...

[Assassin]

Yeah debates are all fine and dandy...but when you produce a logical fallicy by stating someone else is something...you've already lost said debate and had nothing logical to come back with.

[Rapedollar$]

oh yea? well you are a stinky mc stink face.

NAILED IT!

[StarsMine]

Yeah debates are all fine and dandy...but when you produce a logical fallicy by stating someone else is something...you've already lost said debate and had nothing logical to come back with.
rape created a logical fallacy when using anecdotal evidence. :/

[Assassin]

Lol damnit foiled again.

[Spasm]

Did you know.... chicago has been averaging more murder than happened in Newtown every month this year. The murder toll in Chicago is projected to reach at least 500 for this year. There are more than 41 murders a month in Chicago. The lion's share of them are taking place in poor black neighborhoods. You don't hear the reverend jackson or any of the anti-gun media that we're hearing from now raise a stink about guns in those places. Chicago has some of the most strict gun laws in America.

Not going to quote you nemesis but you are completely ignorant on American Constitution. The second amendment is there to overthrow any tyrannical leader or leaders that threaten to take away our freedom and liberties. It is not there for the fucking British. It is not there for hunting animals.

[Assassin]

I love you spasm. I really do.

[Rapedollar$]

spasm for president

[HotFuzz]

Condolences to the families and friends, but stricter gun control laws will not solve anything. it will make it worse. guess who doesn't care about the laws? criminals... just saying

its a proven statistic that when guns have been banned or made illegal or to strictly regulated, crimes commited with guns rise. criminals know that law abiding citizens wont have firearms to protect themselves and in turn
commit more armed crimes.

its a cycle.

Anyone wanting to take my firearms or any of my relatives firearms can pry them from my cold dead hands.

sorry got off topic but stupid libs really piss me off using such a travesty as a podium to preach on a their agenda i.e. gun control.

[StarsMine]

proven statistic?
You need to take a stat class.
And it really isnt proven, and the correlation is not all that strong.

[HotFuzz]

http://www.infowars.com/cold-hard-facts-on-gun-bans-the-cost-of-liberty-can-be-measured-in-the-loss-of-life/

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/07/23/do-gun-bans-reduce-violent-crime-ask-the-aussies-and-brits/

Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

So, if the USA follows Australia’s lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape.

http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2012/07/14/crime-rates-in-chicago-and-dc-drop-after-gun-control-laws-are-struck-down-2/

i could go on for quite a while if ya like... that last link is pretty good too.... well worth a look

[StarsMine]

Im sorry sir, but Correlation is not causation, and really open the link first thing I see
"In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime."

There is so many factors, the biggest one is Societal change, Crime rate went down in the mid to late 90s due to tupac and BIGs death, Gang violence went to large low, and this was also during the assault rifle ban when our crime rate went down.

[Rapedollar$]

ok im not the most informed around about this topic but cant the same thing be said about liberal's counterargument(s) showing other countries with strict gun control and positive results be construed the same way?

at what point do correlation and causation cross over? what makes your arguments valid and hot's invalid? you cite your news sources and discredit ours as Right wing fanatics, but cant the same be said for the sources you use?

[StarsMine]

I am so confused as to what rape is talking about, who and what are you referring to?

what news source are you talking about, the only one I quoted was hots. Also did you just say in your first sentence that while there are countries where crime went up after some gun law went into effect, there are others where crime rate went down? Your wording in that post is just entirely unclear.

Societal changes? - ramBFRt1Uzk
video has little to do with gun control, just the reduction of violence.

[Nemesis]

The problem is there's such a divide on the issue. So much so that each side totally discredits the other and no one is willing to compromise on their views.

Everyone should be able to agree that this is fucking bullshit and there needs to be something done so shit like this stops mother fucking happening because this is getting cunting ridiculous especially when it involves squishies.

[StarsMine]

The problem is there's such a divide on the issue. So much so that each side totally discredits the other and no one is willing to compromise on their views.

Im trying my best not to do that, I like to think of myself as being a very moderate person in this debate here.
Wtf are squishies?

Personally I dont see any good reason for the people to have automatic guns and obscenely large clips. If there is a time to attack the government, then at that point it should be easy enough to get them. All you need for self defense is a glock with 6 rounds or so in it. Same with hunting, you dont need more then 3 shots, the first two will scare all the animals away.

As for assault rifle ban, I dont see a reason for the ban, an a assault rifle isnt going to do more damage then a sawed off pump shotgun. ... I wording what I think poorly here. So go ahead and collect guns, keep them locked up though.
Background checks.... Well crazy people do a good job hiding crazy, but it would prevent felons from getting the guns. Dont give a shit if canadains get our guns though.

[Nemesis]

Im trying my best not to do that, I like to think of myself as being a very moderate person in this debate here.
Wtf are squishies?

Personally I dont see any good reason for the people to have automatic guns and obscenely large clips. If there is a time to attack the government, then at that point it should be easy enough to get them. All you need for self defense is a glock with 6 rounds or so in it. Same with hunting, you dont need more then 3 shots, the first two will scare all the animals away.

As for assault rifle ban, I dont see a reason for the ban, an a assault rifle isnt going to do more damage then a sawed off pump shotgun. ... I wording what I think poorly here. So go ahead and collect guns, keep them locked up though.
Background checks.... Well crazy people do a good job hiding crazy, but it would prevent felons from getting the guns. Dont give a shit if canadains get our guns though.

Squishies are children. The younger they are the more squish they have.

[XX0wnsXY]

Squishies are children. The younger they are the more squish they have.

I understood the reference and it was good.

[Nemesis]

I understood the reference and it was good.

I wasn't referencing anything, I just call them squishies...

[XX0wnsXY]

I wasn't referencing anything, I just call them squishies...

Well from what i know...in video games, at least, any class that gets killed easily is called a "squishy" class...so it made sense in my mind.

[Nemesis]

Well from what i know...in video games, at least, any class that gets killed easily is called a "squishy" class...so it made sense in my mind.

That's because you're a terrible person. I call them squishies because babies have soft faces that are fun to play with.

[XX0wnsXY]

That's because you're a terrible person. I call them squishies because babies have soft faces that are fun to play with.

Lol nice twist. I was interpreting your words, not making any substantial statement.

[BethaRoziLyn]

I feel horrible for the parents of the children lost in this. Can you imagine how terrible this is for them? They do their best to send their kids to a good school, only to lose them in the most horrible way. According to the news I've heard, some of these kids had up to 11 gunshots wounds! And to top it off, so many people are spending all their time arguing about gun laws and almost ignoring the travasty of what occured. How many of you in this discussion know even one of the kids' names?

Save the arguments for another day, right now we need to be discussing how to help those parents, and the families of the killed adults, in any way we can and how we can best repect the lost children.

[Nemesis]

I feel horrible for the parents of the children lost in this. Can you imagine how terrible this is for them? They do their best to send their kids to a good school, only to lose them in the most horrible way. According to the news I've heard, some of these kids had up to 11 gunshots wounds! And to top it off, so many people are spending all their time arguing about gun laws and almost ignoring the travasty of what occured. How many of you in this discussion know even one of the kids' names?

Save the arguments for another day, right now we need to be discussing how to help those parents, and the families of the killed adults, in any way we can and how we can best repect the lost children.

Trying to come up with a solution so something like this never happens again is ignoring the travesty? What are you, a woman?

Sorry, our minimum for caring about shot children starts at 13 GSWs, so close.

The best way to help the families and respect the dead is to never allow this to happen again. Unless you know some Necromancy.

[Erdenay]

spasm for president

No.

@ HotFuzz

I love how reliable your sources are as far as scientific evidence is concerned :)



So, if the USA follows Australia’s lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape.

Also, read this again.... And think.


The problem is there's such a divide on the issue. So much so that each side totally discredits the other and no one is willing to compromise on their views.

Everyone should be able to agree that this is fucking bullshit and there needs to be something done so shit like this stops mother fucking happening because this is getting cunting ridiculous especially when it involves squishies.

This. However, we'd be fighting the human nature... Which is not an easy fight to win.

[Spasm]

II) I can't believe I agree with Nemesis on a serious issue, but I pretty much agree with a vast majority of things he wrote. I highly recommend looking into statistics and testimonies in some other countries (most of European countries) where guns are highly restricted and where's barely any violence or shootings (in fact, any incidents like that where you have a lot of loss of lives).

59 Million people murdered after gun's are restricted in just the 20th century. These are examples of why our founding fathers implemented the 2nd amendment and how pathetic it is of anyone to take it for granted. Armed public are citizens, unarmed public are subjects.

1915-1917 Ottoman Turkey 1-1.5 million murdered 1886-1911 years guns restricted.
1929-1953 Soviet Union 20 million murdered 1929 year guns restricted.
1933-1945 Nazi Germany 13 million murdered 1928-1938 years guns restricted.
1949-1976 China 20 million murdered 1935 year guns restricted.
1960-1981 Guatemala 100,000 murdered 1871-1964 years guns restricted.
1971-1979 Uganda 300,000 murdered 1955-1970 years guns restricted.
1975-1979 Cambodia 1 million murdered 1956 year guns restricted.

"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." Ronald Reagan

[Assassin]

Seconded Spasm for President. ^

[StarsMine]

I dont know of anyone who thinks gun control laws will stop all gun related crime. Also crime per capita is a much better metric then the numbers you have given. 20 Million in china is little compared to the 1 million in cambodia or turkey.

What people are trying is to lessen the amount of the crimes, and if you look at the crime drop in 94 era, when the assault ban had occurred, people would associate the two, when in reality it was many factors. Its hard to judge how much of it was a the ban.

And to the quote, that exists for individual cases yes, however, Nature just as strong as nature, what society brings to the table has SOME influence on the minds of the criminally insane.

Personally I think one of the best ways to prevent more of these is to stop creating an anti-hero out of these people. Stop making the infamous, stop focusing on the amount killed and comparing it to others as if it was a Highscore. The worst thing about this is crimes jump a bit after such tragedies from copy cats trying to get some limelight. Im not saying ignore what happened. What I am saying is focus on the rest of the people, they make enough sensationalist news.

This is a multi faceted issue though with no single answer when its a culmination of other issues. Media sensationalism creating anti-heros, the fact that gun violence in america is higher then ANY other first world developed country, though I will admit that probably has alot to do with us having more guns per capita then any other nation in the world, developed or not. Our society being unable to properly recognize and treat mentally ill people. Will fixing these issues stop all violence? hell no but I think there is a way to lower the crime rate without loosing our freedom as citizens. Reasonable gun control laws like no automatic weapons and no extended clips. FCC making some standerd that a news station can only mention a killers name 4 times in a day (idk, someone who has done more research can write the bill) and mental illness awarness in some form.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Personally I think one of the best ways to prevent more of these is to stop creating an anti-hero out of these people. Stop making the infamous, stop focusing on the amount killed and comparing it to others as if it was a Highscore. The worst thing about this is crimes jump a bit after such tragedies from copy cats trying to get some limelight. Im not saying ignore what happened. What I am saying is focus on the rest of the people, they make enough sensationalist news.


have you seen Total Biscuit's video?

[StarsMine]

have you seen Total Biscuit's video?
Most of it, Its not like I didnt think that before, and owns brought it up earlier in the thread that some news stations did not release his name (until later when everyone else did so they thought why the fuck not) -.-