Reality...

[anex]

I have always been interested with reality and different dimensions. How we got here, how did the infinite universe came to be, or even more of what is out there?

Drugs have always interested me. Not pot, meth, cocaine or anything of that sort. More along the lines of Acid, Shrooms, and Dimethyltryptamine. LSD was always a favorite of mine because of the way I viewed reality. I felt like I saw the world in which no one had saw it before and still view it to this day. Also to note, Watson and Crick used LSD to expand their consciousness to be able to produce the double helix.

For instance, imagine a two dimensional world where no one can fathom what a third dimension looks like. But through certain brain stimulus, that two dimensional creature is able to grab and discern what that third dimension really is. The fouth dimension is something that we can not discern. It is unfathomable to imagine a different dimension, but yet scientists know that it does exist, we just can't see it. IE The hypercube.

Probably some of you know that we (as a whole) do not use the entirety of our brains, in fact the smartest man in the world hardly even uses an eighth of his brain compacity. With all of this modern science you think we would have been able to use different drugs or something similar to "awake" parts of the brain that we do not use. But why do we use only 1/10 of what we are capable of? Our brains tune in on frequencies, much like a radio. Binaural beats made popular by the program i-doser, plays frequencies into your mind that alters it. Your brain tunes into those frequencies and the synchronization of your brain waves begins. Are frequencies and vibrations the key to unlocking different parts of our brain to view a different perception of reality?

Here is something interesting that I have found. "Dimethyltryptamine." (Die-meth-ull-trip-ta-meen) Interestingly enough, it is an illegal substance under US law. However it is found in almost everything including various plants and trees. In fact, your brain makes this illegal substance. It is what makes you dream when you go into deep R.E.M. There is a little part of your brain that some cultures have referred to as the "third eye" often used to describe clairvoyant phenomenons, it is known as the "Pineal gland." It is located in the center of your brain and matches the height of your eyes. (Hence the third eye). This is what makes DMT and scientists have not fully discovered what this gland in your brain fully does.

There was a scientist who did studies back in the 1980's sanctioned by the US government in New Mexico. Users who used this drug (cultivated from plant and tree bark extract, and smoked) immediately put their brain into a deep R.E.M. state while they were still awake. With these R.E.M. states created, users explained that what they saw was nothing that they could have ever thought of or imagined. Things that have never interested them before was being shown before them in a weird somewhat alternate reality. However the government stopped the tests and rendered the drug illegal as to prevent further scientific study. (Check out the book: DMT The Spirit Molecule) Could DMT and the pineal gland be the way that we could alter our experience of the world? Viewing different realities? Senses?

Users said that they had encountered two-types of entities in this interesting world. Benevolent entities and malicious entities. Which is where I believe most religious cults get the idea of "God" (benevolent) and "Satan" (malicious). What was really weird is that these beings were being presented in an angelic and alien form. These things would "show" the user of things to come or what the future would look like. Maybe these natural drugs could be a gateway to something more, and we just don't divulge in it.

DMT, Ayahuasca, and other natural objects were used by our ancestors way back when. Shamans practiced "rituals" to include the smoking or drinking of these things (Still done in South America) and would cause them to have hallucinations of various sorts that made their civilization more advanced. Pyramids, the Aztecs and such.

Dumb or interesting? Seeing as though the only way that we know the things that we know is through sensory data that our eyes and nerves tell our brain. Whereas our Pineal gland takes our data that our brain receives, completely throws it out the window and takes us to an alternate universe where it is simply seems unreal. Even when the effects of the DMT are used when we are awake seems to take our soul to a different dimension of consciousness.

Thought I would share my thoughts.

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Also this is the closest thing I could find to what one of these most spiritual trips are like. However nothing that can be seen in film or pictures are close to the real thing but this is the closest I have seen to an actual trip.

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[maynard]

if you want a serious trip, try Datura aka jimson weed. plz be increidbly careful with it though and read up on it before using it if you have the means or sources 2 get some.

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/ktown4life1337/AlexGrey1.jpg

[Envy]

Disreguard

[Tragedy]

this thread is INTENSE

[Death]

I think Anex's brain started to just work....O.o?!?!?!

:icon_surprised::icon_surprised::icon_surprised:

[anex]

http://rapidshare.com/files/311866602/DMT_-_The_Spirit_Molecule.pdf.html

^---- There is that book. Apparently it is really hard to find.

[Scrubbleboo]

I will read this later but.....for now...



HOLY FUCK. TL;DR

[Ren]

Another pro-drug thread? STAY CLASSY, IBIS!

[Curdy]

bad news anex the universe isnt infinite

but mdma is by far my fav drug

[Sin]

MDMA is for retards.

TL;DR... wtf is this shit, Anex? First you're suicidal/emo and now, you're just high.

[loka]

lol Anex, what is in the chow food at the Air Force? Cause let me tell you today at the AFB that food looked interestingly yummy.

You should look at the artwork in Tool's CD releases. There is a ton of Third Eye perception, and Jimson weed and DMT has to be something MJK has dabbled on. http://www.toolband.com/album/index.html

However, Jimson weed is the only weed I know that can actually have an overdose affect because of it's toxicity.

This is like, I wonder how Charles Lutwidge Dodgson epilepsy and constant migraines affected the shit he wrote. Like you said DMT is definitely produced in the brain in small quantities. Someone in an epileptic state must feel some strange things.

[anex]

MDMA is for retards.

TL;DR... wtf is this shit, Anex? First you're suicidal/emo and now, you're just high.

+1 for bringing up shit that I regretted. Thanks dude. However I have moved past my problems, thanks for asking. Couldn't have done it without you Sin, you cunt.

I'm not high. I found this shit interesting so I wanted to show and discuss. It had to involve principals of religion within a certain small part of our brain that could be a key to something greater within our species.

Well, I was hoping for an interesting conversation about something that I got really excited about learning. But if your going to post that "too long didn't read" shit then don't bother fucking posting. All it shows is that you refused to read what I wrote which is... I don't know being cunts? Really if you don't care, then don't bother replying.

@ Ren, pro-drug? I don't want to get into that because this is not what this is about.

[maynard]

@ Ren, pro-drug? I don't want to get into that because this is not what this is about.

whenever you talk about hallucinogens people will get iffy like ren. simply cause they've 1 never done them before, and thx 2 your federal government they believe them 2 be addicting agents of death.... even though it couldn't be an further from the truth.

[Sin]

+1 for bringing up shit that I regretted. Thanks dude. However I have moved past my problems, thanks for asking. Couldn't have done it without you Sin, you cunt.

I'm not high. I found this shit interesting so I wanted to show and discuss. It had to involve principals of religion within a certain small part of our brain that could be a key to something greater within our species.

Well, I was hoping for an interesting conversation about something that I got really excited about learning. But if your going to post that "too long didn't read" shit then don't bother fucking posting. All it shows is that you refused to read what I wrote which is... I don't know being cunts? Really if you don't care, then don't bother replying.

@ Ren, pro-drug? I don't want to get into that because this is not what this is about.

Thanks for clarifying.

[weeman2412]

don't know if this is valid or add anything to your thinking anex.. but this article says that we actually use our whole brain.. and 10% or whatever wierd number you can think up of is actually just a myth..

[mastercheff]

I saw Nova last night talking about how REM sleep works. Apparently REM sleeps work by replaying your actions during that day as if you actually awake and in that situation. That then helps you to solve a problem or just doodle off to something else.

[loka]

REM sleep is about memory and unlearning. It gives you the power of what you want to forget and what you want to remember. The ironic part about REM is newborns and infants are in REM sleep 80% of the time, and it declines as you get older. Hence why old people suffer memory loss.

[anex]

don't know if this is valid or add anything to your thinking anex.. but this article says that we actually use our whole brain.. and 10% or whatever wierd number you can think up of is actually just a myth..

Hmmm... sorry that was my error. The articles I came across and my reading was saying we only used %10. I didn't bother to check it. :( But still scientists use computers to analyze brain scans and that determines how much of our brain we are using. Computers are generally known for error in this region since the programmers don't even know the full compacity of the brain to even tell the computer what to look for. Some people say its a myth and some people say its not. Its hard to determine who is actually right. But no one can determine how much of the "functions" we actually use.

However some people, more along the dedicated religious type, have major activity of their frontal lobe while others do not. So that person uses that part of the brain while others do not. Does this mean that everyone uses this part of the brain? Yes, but what matters is "to what extent." So person A could be using the full compacity of the frontal lobe while person B hardly uses it. People use different parts of the brain so, with some of the articles I have read when you suggested it was a myth, said we used %90. But if that were true, then why does everyone use different parts instead of all the same parts with the same amount of %?

There is no way we use %90 of even the full extent of our brain power. With all these chemicals that our entering our systems (IE Flouride), they are actually killing some portions of our brain off or inhibiting them from their proper function. In today's current age, I do not believe people use their maximum brain functions.

Btw welcome back. Been awhile.

@ Loka, interesting, I didn't know that. Can you provide an article?

[loka]

It still hasn't been proven, but many wonder why infants are stuck in that state of REM sleep for long periods of time than adults are.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro03/web2/alippman.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080201085713.htm
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/bps/article/PIIS0006322306010791/abstract

There is old articles dating to 1996-2000 that claim REM sleep is not responsible for memory. However, recent studies have disproved those claims. Whether it's more funding to studies or technology has advanced to find these findings.

[loka]

sorry for DP, but I actually remembered my old Psych professor in my Learning and Behavior class last year that sleep will always aid in memory. Have you ever sleep deprived yourself for 2 days? I have. It's not pretty and normally, you shouldn't do it especially if your wanting to remember things.

Someone in that class did a small study that if you study for a test all night with no sleep so you can remember the information, you only remember the last thing you read and failed. If you study all evening with sufficient sleep (6-8 hours) they did much better on the test.

[weeman2412]

sorry for DP, but I actually remembered my old Psych professor in my Learning and Behavior class last year that sleep will always aid in memory. Have you ever sleep deprived yourself for 2 days? I have. It's not pretty and normally, you shouldn't do it especially if your wanting to remember things.

Someone in that class did a small study that if you study for a test all night with no sleep so you can remember the information, you only remember the last thing you read and failed. If you study all evening with sufficient sleep (6-8 hours) they did much better on the test.

or... the people with sleep deprivation.. simply don't have enough energy left to focus on the test... was all the variable controlled? how did you record the data? Quantitative observeration? Qualitative observation? ... too many confounding variables usually screw over your psychological experiments.. I would know.. I can't even do the stroop effect experiment without realizing there are atleast one or two variables that simple cannot be controlled..

By the way people that study all night long.. and plans to do major cramming only means that they are born procrastinators.. whereas the people that studied earlier knows how to plan ahead and are most likely the better students.. (remember I am only generalizing) Study materials could also be different per student as well Loka..



Also Anex.. have you seen MRI scans or any brain scans in particular? I noticed that we use a lot more then 10%... but certain brain damages could really mess up your ability to use the full potential of your brain...

Also Anex read up on split personalities, it has some very interesting case studies.. I don't remember the specific case study... but the gist of the case study was this... (for the sake of easier explanation we'll call one of the personality Eva Black and the other personality Eva White)

oh wait.. eva..

eve?

oh shit.. my memory somehow triggered and I magically found the case study O.O

http://www.holah.karoo.net/thigpenstudy.htm

and I'm not really back yet.. happen to stumble on to your post since today is the start of a four day weekend.. and replied to your post because I find it very interesting and not the same old crap like in the other sections

[loka]

You sure are generalizing the difference of an average high school student and an average college student. Even the "planned" of all students find themselves fucked in exams, and sleep deprived. I never studied for my exams. I stayed up. I drank. I was a B student through college. I look at my old roommates behaviors to see how they studied. I had one that would group study. Go out before an exam... do well. Another one would go out and party, wake up and study before the exam... did somewhat well... Another one would study and study and study. Stay up. Study some more. Sleep for awhile and then do somewhat well.

As for that in class study... it wasn't my study and I didn't partake in it. If you want all that scientific bullshit, bother that person. Comparing what that girl did to what your doing with the stroop effect is totally different considering your using something that already was used in a study, and you will have more complications trying to prove anything in your hypothesis. You can be dealing with someone who has slow reaction timing, people who are colorblind, have a mental disorder, have pre-existent brain damage. The variable is easy considering males are more likely to be color blind than females. Then again that is why you distribute a questionnaire with those "do you" or "have you" questions in psychological studies than other studies. It's also why you can manipulate a study to your hypothesis.

[uuntiltheendd]

dmt and other hallucenogens are illegal because people in high places dont want us to see what doors these things can open. they want to keep us all narrow minded pricks. im sure there are many things they have discovered by testing these drugs that they dont want us to see or find out about.

[maynard]

is salvia legal in the states? it is here, never understood why.

[uuntiltheendd]

is salvia legal in the states? it is here, never understood why.

nope.

[loka]

The war on drugs started with President Eisenhower, but Nixon made it 10x what it is today by creating the DEA.

In early 20th century, dentist and doctors were using morphine, cocaine, heroine, etc to reduce pain. Coca-Cola got it's name from adding coke.

During prohibition is when things basically went bad as far as drug control and laws. The mafia made huge profits on alcohol, and because of the high crime rate plus having corrupt officials, alcohol prohibition was made useless and was nullified. Then they focused on the other drugs. Marijuana, cocaine, heroine (granted those two should still be illegal) any hallucinogens were made illegal.

Hollywood started aiding and fueling to the governments cause. Made a movie called Reefer Madness where it portrayed teenagers going mad from smoking weed. Funny shit considering what we know today.

And the ads they put out were biased and one sided. Because of that, and word of mouth from generations of the gullible Americans from the depression years, fueled the word that marijuana is bad.

http://marijuana.info/images/marijuana_posters/MARIHUANA_poster.jpg

But really, each state has it's own laws on how to handle marijuana possession. In Massachusetts, I guess they realized they were sending people with a stupid possession charge to two years in jail while letting more serious offenders on a lenient probation charge. So if you have less than 2 ounces of weed on you in Massachusetts, it's a 100 dollar fine. Funny right?

[Sin]

Salvia's still legal in PA from what I recall...

[ZERO]

Current universe can not be infinite, it is not possible to move on an infinite path. Ergo, if infinite time exists it is impossible for time to progress.

Ultimately drugs only mislead people by allowing their imagination to create ideas that have no logical baring. Ultimately you can either look at it from derived logic or from a religious position however both will take you to the same Truth. When simplified into basic form the fabric of the universe is best understood. In no instance has taking substances, that alter the minds function and ability to reason, actually revealed anything new from our understanding of the universe. Instead it has only acted to restate claims bade though logical discourse as if they were spontaneously generated, often misusing said data to fit a "better" image. See: psychedelic universe

[uuntiltheendd]

Current universe can not be infinite, it is not possible to move on an infinite path. Ergo, if infinite time exists it is impossible for time to progress.



so counting ceases at some point? id like to see that number.

[ZERO]

If X if infinite distance from Y how far is Z?

[XxMastagunzxX]

If X if infinite distance from Y how far is Z?

chocolate

[Lolsbian]

There is no spoon Neo

[anex]

Current universe can not be infinite, it is not possible to move on an infinite path. Ergo, if infinite time exists it is impossible for time to progress.

Have you heard the paradox of movement?

If X wants to go to Y, then it moves there. But to be able to arrive at Y, X has to hit some half way point. So let X=0 and Y=10. At some point he has to reach 5 to hit 10, however to be able to reach 5, X has to to hit the half way point of 2.5. To be able to reach 2.5 it has to reach 1.25. To reach 1.25 it has to cross .625. Then .625 to .3125, then .3125 to .15625. You can keep going. It seems like the movement would never begin but WE know its as easy as taking the first step.

In this case, let time be X and infinite be Y. Apply the paradox and it appears as if X doesn't move at all towards infinite, but we know it does. SO The universe and time can still be infinite and time can still progress.

[Christmas]

If X if infinite distance from Y how far is Z?

1. Those are axes, not points.
2. How are we supposed to know how far Z is when we have no idea where Z is in relation to either X or Y?

In other news, what are you babbling on about?

[uuntiltheendd]

Have you heard the paradox of movement?

If X wants to go to Y, then it moves there. But to be able to arrive at Y, X has to hit some half way point. So let X=0 and Y=10. At some point he has to reach 5 to hit 10, however to be able to reach 5, X has to to hit the half way point of 2.5. To be able to reach 2.5 it has to reach 1.25. To reach 1.25 it has to cross .625. Then .625 to .3125, then .3125 to .15625. You can keep going. It seems like the movement would never begin but WE know its as easy as taking the first step.

In this case, let time be X and infinite be Y. Apply the paradox and it appears as if X doesn't move at all towards infinite, but we know it does. SO The universe and time can still be infinite and time can still progress.
+infinity. booya.

1. Those are axes, not points.
2. How are we supposed to know how far Z is when we have no idea where Z is in relation to either X or Y?

In other news, what are you babbling on about?

and +infinity. booya.

[anex]

Hey guys, I was browsing different paradox movies on youtube and stumbled across something most awesome. "Augmented Reality."

Currently people with iPhones can get applications that acts as a real-time map navigation using the camera lens.

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So I thought, wow that is really fucking cool! I dug deeper and found this really cool shit. Imagine the Bionic Eye with contact lens.

http://singularityhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/augmented-reality-contact-lens-rabbit-238x300.jpg

Augmented Reality Could Be Coming to Your Contact Lens

When you drive your car your dashboard instruments display the speed, amount of fuel left, and distance traveled. You can use Google Maps on your smart phone to find restaurants, post offices, or other important landmarks all around you. Why can’t this sort of information be given to you all the time, streaming directly into your field of vision on a contact lens?

...

To date, Parviz’s team has made some great first steps into proving that the AR contact lens concept is possible. Here’s a quick summary of the accomplishments they list in the IEEE article:

* Parviz has developed several micro circuit components suitable for use on a contact lens. These include: control circuits, power circuits, communications circuits, an antenna, and a LED. That LED was activated to provide a single pixel in the field of vision.
* All of these elements consisted of semitransparent hardware that was embedded onto a polymer or glass that emulated a traditional contact. The AR contact prototype was then embedded in a biocompatible polymer to keep toxins inherent in semiconductor materials from spreading onto the eye.
* The entire structure was tested on a rabbit eye for 20 minutes without ill effect and the LED was lit.
* The team has also developed a simple biosensor that could be used to determine blood glucose levels by monitoring the eye’s surface.


SOURCE (http://singularityhub.com/2009/10/15/augmented-reality-could-be-coming-to-your-contact-lens/)

I want to be alive to see this happen!

EDIT: Current project at BMW

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And zombie mod got an upgrade.

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[Jeimuzu]

Humm.. Time is justified only by the fact that matter's form can be changed.

Also Anex, awesome...

[anex]

Also Anex, awesome...

You know whats even more awesome?

http://www.weareautobots.com

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[Jeimuzu]

It's strange, just a day ago I was talking with my cousin about virtual reality zombie games. He was thinking more along the lines of a helmet of some sorts that could project everything you would normally view on a screen, but with the addition of zombies and such.

[chase]

I really enjoyed your post Anex.. Really makes you think about what there is beyond what we know currently.

[uuntiltheendd]

I really enjoyed your post Anex.. Really makes you think about what there is beyond what we know currently.

i ask myself that everytime i read things about or think about groom lake.

[anex]

So I am on a fucked up sleep schedule right now and so is my room mate. Basically I sleep from 1pm and wake up at 11pm or midnight. He gets about acouple hours of sleep every 12 hours because he is busy doing stuff. So long story short it was about 7am to get a beer and he was cooking microwavable pizza. We got to talking and I like talking to him because he knows some things that I don't. All about the learning. We started talking about the Gold standard, the Rothchilds, JP morgan and banks n such. Then he asked me if I knew anything about Nibiru, which of course I have never heard of it.

So I thought this would be an appropriate place to post this since I am figuring that a lot of people here don't know about it. There are some weird theories about it but more interesting than crazy because a lot of it has to do with 12/21/2012 and backed by scientific and archeological evidence.

http://www.subversiveelement.com/files/planetx2.jpg

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[Steamer]

Saw some of this on the History Channel, good shit to get the brain wondering! :wtg:

[anex]

Ya, once I get my debit card in the mail from my bank, I am going to buy books on this subject and read up on it. Keep ya updated :wtg:

[OMGBEARS]

If you believe that I have a wonderful bridge to sell you!

[Christmas]

So basically with all the technology in the world they can't find a single planet that is supposed to orbit the sun, yet they could find every other planet in existence?


Come on now. Reptilian race? Gods making humans out of clay pots? What is this garbage?

http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/intro/nibiru-and-doomsday-2012-questions-and-answers

[Curdy]

anex i hope you havn't bought into that 2012 bs

[anex]

So basically with all the technology in the world they can't find a single planet that is supposed to orbit the sun, yet they could find every other planet in existence?

Come on now. Reptilian race? Gods making humans out of clay pots? What is this garbage?

Did you also see that its orbit is 3600 years? Or how about that its on a different track then every other planet. With all of our technology we have only begun to discover what is out there. Because they can't see it with telescopes now, doesn't mean that they aren't going to be able to see it 100 years from now OR discover more planets.

Reptilian race was just a side affect to the video, I actually didn't realize that was in there. "Gods making humans out of clay" is their creation story. Really its no more different then what millions of people believe in Christianity. The Sumerians are the first recorded civilization in human history and I found interesting some of the stuff they said and posted it.

Planet X might be a hoax it might not be. Again its hard to tell with two sides of the coin tugging and pulling on who is right. I don't trust an old geezer from a government organization. Don't trust the government because they are known for their lies more then their truth.

No Curdy, im not buying into it. Half of me thinks that it would be interesting if it did happen and the other half thinks its a hoax just like the Y2K. But when stuff like this comes out...

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... it kind of peaks your interest just a little bit.

[Christmas]

Did you also see that its orbit is 3600 years? Or how about that its on a different track then every other planet. With all of our technology we have only begun to discover what is out there. Because they can't see it with telescopes now, doesn't mean that they aren't going to be able to see it 100 years from now OR discover more planets.

Reptilian race was just a side affect to the video, I actually didn't realize that was in there. "Gods making humans out of clay" is their creation story. Really its no more different then what millions of people believe in Christianity. The Sumerians are the first recorded civilization in human history and I found interesting some of the stuff they said and posted it.

Planet X might be a hoax it might not be. Again its hard to tell with two sides of the coin tugging and pulling on who is right. I don't trust an old geezer from a government organization. Don't trust the government because they are known for their lies more then their truth.

No Curdy, im not buying into it. Half of me thinks that it would be interesting if it did happen and the other half thinks its a hoax just like the Y2K. But when stuff like this comes out...

EZzUFVKzB1U

... it kind of peaks your interest just a little bit.

Yeah, don't trust the government because they have some benefit to withholding information regarding the impending doom of the earth. And they wouldn't know what they are talking about with the amount of moolah and technology they have at their disposal.

Sure it's an interesting scenario, but it is about as interesting as the possibility of there being a giant zombie outbreak. Neither should be discussed in a thread whose title is "reality".

[OMGBEARS]

Fox News.

Case closed.

[loka]

Fox News.

Case closed.

I feel bad for people who actually swallow the crap Fox News puts out.

[ManBearPig <ibis>]

i feel bad for people who actually swallow the crap fox news puts out.

+ 11111111111

[StarsMine]

Well Fox News is probably one of the worst source of news, but that scientist I have seen many times in many shows, the sun cycle is 11 years or so and we like he said we have dodged the bullet before out of luck. What I didnt know was that it was 2012, but meh, so what, sketchy signals for a couple of months will be a nuisance yes but nothing to problematic.
The earth also goes through a cycle of magnetic field flipping and the next flip will supposedly happen in my lifetime. we will have screwed up stuff for a year but things will go back to normal after that.

[maynard]

Yeah, don't trust the government because they have some benefit to withholding information regarding the impending doom of the earth. And they wouldn't know what they are talking about with the amount of moolah and technology they have at their disposal.

Sure it's an interesting scenario, but it is about as interesting as the possibility of there being a giant zombie outbreak. Neither should be discussed in a thread whose title is "reality".

and they do. it's called not throwing the entire planet into a major panic... durr... all it would take is the government 2 say aliens are real, and the entire planet would literally freak the fuck out and go into chaos.... if aliens are real it disproves pretty much every religion on the planet. and you need 2 keep in mind there's billions of ppl who are religious on the planet, if you tell them all there faith and everything was wrong, and that everything they dedicated themselfs 2 and believed was fake... that will cause beyond a world of shit. it also throws the entire notion of right and wrong choices out the window. if there truly is no heaven, or hell.. or religion at all, then what's it matter if you're a good or bad person? it doesn't.

seeing how we have no proof 2 our existance I don't think it's fare 2 rule this out. if the first civilization is documenting this, then there would clearly be a reason 2 it. I'm not really behind the reptile race thing... but she 2 claim it's not possible is ignorance. we don't understand even 1% of our own existance, let alone the universe around us... so claiming it's bull shit and not possible is just pointless. 2 think life doesn't exist else where in the universe is just silly... and 2 believe if there is life out there and the only possible physical look they could have is our own is equally as silly.

christmas you should try reading into history a little, the government has done nothing but hold the truth and specifics from the general public it's entire existance... hence why organizations like the illuminati and the free masons exist... and no I'm not saying they have relevance anymore 2 anything we're discussing.. but new age groups just like them do exist,

look at the Bilderberg group... 130 of the most elite influential people on the planet. they meet once a year under the highest level of secrecy and security.

christ, we got pyramids that are on the bottom of the sea and carbon date back 10 thousand years... if you knew the truth, would you really want 2 tell the mass public and have 2 re-write history? hell no... even more so cause we still don't have a fucking clue as 2 how we ended up on this planet and came 2 be what we are. history is flawed on all sides.... 1 example, there's not a single shred of proof or evidence, or even a single epitaph by the egyptians that actually says they built them. yet we teach in school that they did barry them, and that the were used as tombs.... yet not 1 mummy has ever been discovered in an actual pyramid.... as I was saying... history is flawed. you need 2 keep your mind open... more so when we don't even in the slightest have the issue of "how did we end up on this planet" figured out.

[loka]

We knew about 9/11. However, at the time it was released, it was passed off by BOTH Clinton and Bush.

The whole trust your government ploy is 1950esque and immigrant embraced.

[maynard]

We knew about 9/11. However, at the time it was released, it was passed off by BOTH Clinton and Bush.

exactly. why would you involve a mass public that can't do anything 2 change or help the situation.... all they could really do is panic and freak out.

[loka]

exactly. why would you involve a mass public that can't do anything 2 change or help the situation.... all they could really do is panic and freak out.

Actually, airport security in every airport could have been jacked up considering they were last heard coming from Canada. The closest MAJOR airport north with routes through New York City would have been Logan Airport. Since that incident, every airport isn't what it used to be and especially the security in Logan Airport is fucking ridiculous. They aren't playing anymore.

[maynard]

Actually, airport security in every airport could have been jacked up considering they were last heard coming from Canada. The closest MAJOR airport north with routes through New York City would have been Logan Airport. Since that incident, every airport isn't what it used to be and especially the security in Logan Airport is fucking ridiculous. They aren't playing anymore.

well 9/11 is a very controversial... there's ppl like myself who don't believe it was anything more then a scare tactic organized by the government 2 give them reason 2 go east.
so I don't believe stepping up security for high jackers that never existed would be all that helpful.

[StarsMine]

Actually, airport security in every airport could have been jacked up considering they were last heard coming from Canada. The closest MAJOR airport north with routes through New York City would have been Logan Airport. Since that incident, every airport isn't what it used to be and especially the security in Logan Airport is fucking ridiculous. They aren't playing anymore.

:lmao: Its true, I remember flying before the attacks and after, holy crap there is alot of security now, much of it completely useless but to make people feel safe. There will always be a way to get around a system, and just adding more is fucking getting anoying, Nothing in my lap for the last hour of flight! wtf! :banghead:

[Christmas]

We knew about 9/11. However, at the time it was released, it was passed off by BOTH Clinton and Bush.

The whole trust your government ploy is 1950esque and immigrant embraced.

I'd like to see what you have to back that up.

Names of the hijackers before 9/11, the planes that were meant to be used that day, and the targets? Anything of that sort?

[maynard]

:lmao: Its true, I remember flying before the attacks and after, holy crap there is alot of security now, much of it completely useless but to make people feel safe. There will always be a way to get around a system, and just adding more is fucking getting anoying, Nothing in my lap for the last hour of flight! wtf! :banghead:

prior 2 9/11 I many times jumped on flights in Canada with a big ass bag of weed in my pocket... never mattered no 1 searched you or did anything lol.... I miss those good times.

[Christmas]

prior 2 9/11 I many times jumped on flights in Canada with a big ass bag of weed in my pocket... never mattered no 1 searched you or did anything lol.... I miss those good times.

I can guarantee you nobody is going to find weed in your pocket now considering it poses no threat (nor did it ever) to an airline.

[maynard]

I can guarantee you nobody is going to find weed in your pocket now considering it poses no threat (nor did it ever) to an airline.

trafficking a controlled narcotic isn't a threat? Sweet... if only every 1 thought the same way as you heh

[Christmas]

trafficking a controlled narcotic isn't a threat? Sweet... if only every 1 thought the same way as you heh

Marijuana isn't a narcotic.

[maynard]

Marijuana isn't a narcotic.

umm yes it is.

<3 controversy

[loka]

The hijackings did in fact happen. A girl I went to high school with lost her uncle (her uncle was one of the pilots of the flight that crashed into the World Trade Center).

Whether you want to believe that the government used this as a ploy to start another Gulf War, I can agree with you on that, but to say it never happened is out of reach considering the trail that the hijackers left from video surveillance to the insurmountable evidence that they left in the car they left at the airport. The WTC hicjackings definitely happened.

They were threats ignored by two presidents who never took it serious. One left office, and the other looked at it and said "when they do I'll just go to war." The more intelligence they gathered and dates that accumulated, the more they ignored it as just a simple rouse.

[Christmas]

umm yes it is.

Medically (and legally in most areas) it is not a narcotic.

[Christmas]

The hijackings did in fact happen. A girl I went to high school with lost her uncle (her uncle was one of the pilots of the flight that crashed into the World Trade Center).

Whether you want to believe that the government used this as a ploy to start another Gulf War, I can agree with you on that, but to say it never happened is out of reach considering the trail that the hijackers left from video surveillance to the insurmountable evidence that they left in the car they left at the airport. The WTC hicjackings definitely happened.

They were threats ignored by two presidents who never took it serious. One left office, and the other looked at it and said "when they do I'll just go to war." The more intelligence they gathered and dates that accumulated, the more they ignored it as just a simple rouse.

I'm aware that the hijackings took place. But the issue with the assertions that there were warnings prior to 9/11 (specifics would be nice) is difficult to simply take at face value considering the multiple circumstances. Seeing the issue in hindsight makes it even worse.

[maynard]

The hijackings did in fact happen. A girl I went to high school with lost her uncle (her uncle was one of the pilots of the flight that crashed into the World Trade Center).

Whether you want to believe that the government used this as a ploy to start another Gulf War, I can agree with you on that, but to say it never happened is out of reach considering the trail that the hijackers left from video surveillance to the insurmountable evidence that they left in the car they left at the airport. The WTC hicjackings definitely happened.

They were threats ignored by two presidents who never took it serious. One left office, and the other looked at it and said "when they do I'll just go to war." The more intelligence they gathered and dates that accumulated, the more they ignored it as just a simple rouse.

I never said the government cares about a hand ful of your ppl, I'm just saying the governemnt was controling those planes. this isn't the first time the government has imposed a fake scare tactic like that. and all that vid evidence is bull shit, it's about as real as when the government released that vid of bin laden claiming 2 take credit for shit


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[OMGBEARS]

umm yes it is.

<3 controversy

In the strict definition of the word narcotic, it exclusively refers to drugs with morphine-like qualities. i.e. opiates (heroine, opium, etc). Weed is only included under the definition in the loose sense of the word.

In the legal system narcotics strictly refers to opiates. Weed is not a narcotic legally.

[maynard]

In the strict definition of the word narcotic, it exclusively refers to drugs with morphine-like qualities. i.e. opiates (heroine, opium, etc). Weed is only included under the definition in the loose sense of the word.

In the legal system narcotics strictly refers to opiates. Weed is not a narcotic legally.

under cali state law, yes it is.

as I said... <3 controversy

[OMGBEARS]

under cali state law, yes it is.

as I said... <3 controversy

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/bruin.htm

There is no controversy, it's a matter of legalese. Weed is not a narcotic in the true sense of the word, whether or not California law says it is.

[loka]

It's called history. Someone with the brain of a banana has to know bin Laden had a begrudging obsession with the World Trade Center. The FBI office in New York had to know the World Trade Center would be a remarkable target that be "spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties ... (it) will occur with little or no warning." In 1998 is when the threat came in, and the FBI office of New York did nothing. They speculated what little it had to do with them. CIA forwarded a message to the FAA mentioning a hijacking taking place a month before it happened.

There is countless articles of the CIA failing with the information that they had received and did not take serious. This is why the division of Homeland Security was created and broken off to divisions. The CIA failed, and the FBI did nothing with the information.

It's been stated that this is the worst American Intelligence collection since Pearl Harbor for sure. They looked at the information and laughed.

If your looking for solid evidence go pick up a fucking book. I've done my picking up books and reading up on the subject. I have manuals that Al-Qaeda uses for their recruits, and redacted papers that show the intelligence they picked out since 98-01

[maynard]

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/bruin.htm

I know how 2 use google as well, thx. ppl have in-fact been charged for having narcotics when in posesion of marijuana.

but if you want me 2 say "controlled substance" or "drugs" instead as if it matters, then fine Lol. my point is still the same.

and that's that prior 2 9/11 drug laws were lax.

[OMGBEARS]

If your looking for solid evidence go pick up a fucking book. I've done my picking up books and reading up on the subject. I'm all lawed and criminal justice out with the subject.

I've been looking through There's a Wocket in My Pocket! and there's nothing in there.

HALP PLX

[Christmas]

I never said the government cares about a hand ful of your ppl, I'm just saying the governemnt was controling those planes. this isn't the first time the government has imposed a fake scare tactic like that. and all that vid evidence is bull shit, it's about as real as when the government released that vid of bin laden claiming 2 take credit for shit


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You have to be fucking nuts, Maynard.

Loka: Specifics? It doesn't matter if the twin towers are a target considering planes were used and it was the first time in history commercial airlines were used as missles. It also doesn't help if a specific time and date is not given, specific airlines are not given, specific suspects are given, and specific details on what they would do are not given. It is like calling the police saying that soon someone is going to rob the nearest Comerica Bank. Who? How? When? Do you believe it makes sense to station multiple officers there indefinitely simply because you received a single tip that a robbery could occur?

Details.

[maynard]

I think the next book you pick up loka, should be "demolitions" and "implosions" then look at the twin towers and try and explain 2 me how that's not a demolition from the inside out like all standard jobs.

[OMGBEARS]

I know how 2 use google as well, thx. ppl have in-fact been charged for having narcotics when in posesion of marijuana.

but if you want me 2 say "controlled substance" or "drugs" instead as if it matters, then fine Lol. my point is still the same.

and that's that prior 2 9/11 drug laws were lax.

That fact can be attributed to having a conservative government for 8 years. Drug laws become more strict as people with conservative values are in power. It's a general trend in government.

I'm about the most liberal person you'll meet, so I'm a bit biased when it comes to the 8 years before Obama.

As a side note, I'm pretty cool with Weed; it's not addictive, doesn't cause aggression, and is impossible to overdose on. You shouldn't drive or operate heavy machinery, but it's less of an issue than with alcohol. WHERE'S THE PROBLEM PEOPLES?

[loka]

You know nothing of law enforcement. There is a difference between "having details" and being vigilant to those areas. We'll sleep better knowing you won't have anything to do with interpreting threats and how to react to them.

[Christmas]

I think the next book you pick up loka, should be "demolitions" and "implosions" then look at the twin towers and try and explain 2 me how that's not a demolition from the inside out like all standard jobs.

Oh my goodness Maynard you have to be kidding me.

1. No such thing as a top down demoliton. The odds of the explosives surviving is also a huge issue.

2. Noise. Not near enough noise.

3. No visible flashes up and down the building prior to collapse (explosions occur within the building prior to another set of explosives taking down the building)

4. No time to put the needed explosives in the necessary areas without removing obvious visible elements (demo crews work with completely gutted buildings and still take weeks to set them up despite the drastic difference in size) and being seen by office workers.

No thank you, Maynard.


You know nothing of law enforcement. There is a difference between "having details" and being vigilant to those areas. We'll sleep better knowing you won't have anything to do with interpreting threats and how to react to them.

So you mean to tell me we should waste our resources on every single tip and threat for whatever time it takes just in case one of them is true?

Come on Loka, bring something substantial to the debate (except read a book since I could say that for any one of my assertions) instead of "haha government laughed at threats and shit". Same bullshit conspiracy nuts have tried to use for the past seven years.

[maynard]

That fact can be attributed to having a conservative government for 8 years. Drug laws become more strict as people with conservative values are in power. It's a general trend in government.

I'm about the most liberal person you'll meet, so I'm a bit biased when it comes to the 8 years before Obama.

As a side note, I'm pretty cool with Weed; it's not addictive, doesn't cause aggression, and is impossible to overdose on. You shouldn't drive or operate heavy machinery, but it's less of an issue than with alcohol. WHERE'S THE PROBLEM PEOPLES?

I am 10 times better driver when stoned. after I get high and drive... I drive way slower, and I'm far more alert and aware of things.

[OMGBEARS]

I am 10 times better driver when stoned. after I get high and drive... I drive way slower, and I'm far more alert and aware of things.

Yup it's all about how you act while high. I'm a bit catatonic and get realllllyyy sleeepppyy so it does inhibit my driving a bit. Then again I don't drive often while high.. so my experience is limited.

[maynard]

Oh my goodness Maynard you have to be kidding me.

1. No such thing as a top down demoliton. The odds of the explosives surviving is also a huge issue.

2. Noise. Not near enough noise.

3. No visible flashes up and down the building prior to collapse (explosions occur within the building prior to another set of explosives taking down the building)

4. No time to put the needed explosives in the necessary areas without removing obvious visible elements (demo crews work with completely gutted buildings and still take weeks to set them up despite the drastic difference in size) and being seen by office workers.

No thank you, Maynard.



So you mean to tell me we should waste our resources on every single tip and threat for whatever time it takes just in case one of them is true?

Come on Loka, bring something substantial to the debate (except read a book since I could say that for any one of my assertions) instead of "haha government laughed at threats and shit". Same bullshit conspiracy nuts have tried to use for the past seven years.

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Lol.. ok then

also there were explosions after the plane hit, quite a few, I was actually watching the news right as it was happening that morning, and watching the fire fighters strait up say "there's explosions going off within the tower" just prior 2 it's falling.

you can also see just before it falls on many points of the building the mini charge explosions blowing out windows and throwing dust and shit out into the air.

[Christmas]

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Lol.. ok then

also there were explosions after the plane hit, quite a few, I was actually watching the news right as it was happening that morning, and watching the fire fighters strait up say "there's explosions going off within the tower" just prior 2 it's falling.

you can also see just before it falls on many points of the building the mini charge explosions blowing out windows and throwing dust and shit out into the air.

I'm glad you posted that video, Maynard. Compare the noises from that implosion to the WTC "implosion".

QsETCJADIxI&feature=related

Now notice how the reporter is able to speak perfectly clearly prior to collapse. No prior explosions are heard prior to collapse. The only loud noises are the sounds coming from a gigantic structure toppling on itself.

There is even a phone call from a worker trapped above the impact zone on youtube that reveals no prior explosions and no explosions during collapse.

And random "squibs" don't make a controlled explosion. If it was "controlled" it would be light and air coming out of all sides of the tower in the same pattern, yet you see random puffs of air from random floors. Is it controlled or not?

[maynard]

I'm talking about the live footage that was on the air, and then removed at the government request. just like the survilence tape at the pentagon that would clearly show a massive plane crashing into it, but can't be viewed....

there was inbetween 10-20 explosions when I Was watching, and I watched the fire department strait up say that there's explosions going off all in the building, and that they have no clue as 2 wtf is going on. after about an hour and a half that footage we removed from the news networks. just like the news chick that was at the pentagon and was constantly saying "there's 0 debdree of the plane here" her little news report was also removed quite quickly, and that's when they released the footage of the side of the building exploding... and that it.

also with demolitions you "can" stack the majority in the bottom and remove the support that way, giving the same results as shown in the vid, and 9/11 buildings.

[loka]

Wow. Again. Law enforcement will never be your specialty.

When a threat of a bomb at a bank in let's say in the city of New York is called in, the operator will then notify their superior. They are encouraged to make that their priority. Will try to get as much information as they can, possibly narrow it down to a bank. They will notify all precincts of the threat PLUS the bank company it's self and their security team will work with local PD. FBI steps in when a bank and bomb threat is made so even more man power is used to be vigilant at those banks. They will then notify bomb squad, ATF and the fire departments of the possible threat. That's how it works when a threat is called in. Law enforcement is out for vigilance not for details. Details are for AFTER the crime has happened. No law enforcement agency takes any threats lightly. Unless the person collecting the information doesn't think it's serious at all. That's the only way a threat or intelligence can have a brain fart as bad as 9/11.

There is a reason why the FBI, US Marshals, ATF, CIA have different divisions. So they don't use up that "man power". No such thing as man power when there is FBI offices all over the United States, state and local police, National Guard etc. All of those people are called in for statewide threats.

Stick to something you know.

[loka]

I'm talking about the live footage that was on the air, and then removed at the government request. just like the survilence tape at the pentagon that would clearly show a massive plane crashing into it, but can't be viewed....

there was inbetween 10-20 explosions when I Was watching, and I watched the fire department strait up say that there's explosions going off all in the building, and that they have no clue as 2 wtf is going on. after about an hour and a half that footage we removed from the news networks. just like the news chick that was at the pentagon and was constantly saying "there's 0 debdree of the plane here" her little news report was also removed quite quickly, and that's when they released the footage of the side of the building exploding... and that it.

also with demolitions you "can" stack the majority in the bottom and remove the support that way, giving the same results as shown in the vid, and 9/11 buildings.

Your comparing the Pentagon to the WTC bombing. The Pentagon bombing always looked fishy to me, and your not the only one who believes that. The WTC is about as real as it can get. If you want to argue why it imploded from the inside, structural damage did happen to the WTC in 1993 on a previous terror attack by Al-Qaeda that had to be repaired. You should also look at how the tower was engineered and what jet fuel can do to steel.

[maynard]

Your comparing the Pentagon to the WTC bombing. The Pentagon bombing always looked fishy to me, and your not the only one who believes that. The WTC is about as real as it can get. If you want to argue why it imploded from the inside, structural damage did happen to the WTC in 1993 on a previous terror attack by Al-Qaeda that had to be repaired. You should also look at how the tower was engineered and what jet fuel can do to steel.

the fact is, the support beams could not be made hot enough 2 collapse.. the fires and the engine heat, was not enough. that's a fact. the building collapsed on it's self... and they say it's cause the support beams got 2 hot, that is just not possible lol. also if they did get 2 hot the building would have not imploded in on it's self it would have rolled over falling into other buildings

but if you can agree the pentagon is hardcore fishy, what makes you think then the WTC is legit they were all part of the same attack.

[XxMastagunzxX]

I'm just going to say I completely agree with christmas.......... maynard....no offense but your ideas are rediculous.

[maynard]

I'm just going to say I completely agree with christmas and maynard....no offense but your ideas are rediculous.

myself and christmas don't agree.

[XxMastagunzxX]

It sounded weird the way I typed it, but I fixed it now

[maynard]

It sounded weird the way I typed it, but I fixed it now

they're not ideas, they're facts I saw on TV live as the event took place Lol.

[StarsMine]

myself and christmas don't agree.

You misread him
Maynard, you are an idiot, go ask a real engineer not just some BS conspiracy theorist.

[loka]

That depends on how much jet fuel a 757 can carry. I saw it live from when it hit to when it went down, and for as much oxygen and combustible material you're giving to a fire... the minute you saw it starting to tip you knew it was done. That's why I don't play with fire.

[maynard]

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/ktown4life1337/pentagon_911_flight77.jpg

lmfao... yeah... I'm sure a 757 made that small hole Lol





and loka, fire can't melt steel <--- fact. and in the odd event it some how found a way 2, it would have melted the top of the building, not the bottom, like I said the building would not implode on it's self, it would have fallen over.

[XxMastagunzxX]

the fact is, the support beams could not be made hot enough 2 collapse.. the fires and the engine heat, was not enough. that's a fact. the building collapsed on it's self... and they say it's cause the support beams got 2 hot, that is just not possible lol. also if they did get 2 hot the building would have not imploded in on it's self it would have rolled over falling into other buildings



THAT IS NOT A FACT!


And about the plane hitting the pentagon. The plane was hauling ass and the camera probably doesn't even capture 15fps. It's also not aimed right to see a plane coming.

[maynard]

THAT IS NOT A FACT!


And about the plane hitting the pentagon. The plane was hauling ass and the camera probably doesn't even capture 15fps. It's also not aimed right to see a plane coming.

there's like 50 security cameras around the pentagon, and just cause it's a slow frame camera doesn't mean it couldn't see the plane lol

and yes it is a fact, open flames can't melt steel lol. you need it in a proper oven designed for heating metals.

[StarsMine]

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/ktown4life1337/pentagon_911_flight77.jpg

lmfao... yeah... I'm sure a 757 made that small hole Lol





and loka, fire can't melt steel <--- fact. and in the odd event it some how found a way 2, it would have melted the top of the building, not the bottom, like I said the building would not implode on it's self, it would have fallen over.

Dude My dad was at the pentagon when it got hit, I also went over to the pentagon a few days after it got hit, there was plane debris and building debris and a trail of destruction from where the plane hit.

[XxMastagunzxX]

there's like 50 security cameras around the pentagon, and just cause it's a slow frame camera doesn't mean it couldn't see the plane lol

and yes it is a fact, open flames can't melt steel lol. you need it in a proper oven designed for heating metals.

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent.

[Christmas]

Maynard: Steel can be WEAKENED due to fire damage, and the steel was already WEAKENED due to structural damage. And it was. That is a FACT. Also the south tower did slightly tip before falling back into itself (check the stills) considering the majority of the damage was on one corner. The north tower went straight down because the plane hit it almost directly at center.

Also what basis do you have to imply that the tower should have just tipped over like a tree?

The footage I gave you WAS live. The firefighters testimony mainly discusses the collapse (one group talks about the towers going BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM down the building) and during a fire explosions do happen. Despite all these "explosions" there doesn't seem to be enough to show that a sufficient amount (such as what was seen in the building you showed that was less than half the size of the twin towers ) was used to destroy the building.


Also why were plane parts found by firefighters and rescue staff at the scene of the pentagon, why was a light pole shown wedged inside a taxi cab (one of five that were knocked off due to the plane hitting it), and why was there so much witness testimony discussing a large aircraft (with windows on the side)?

http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2005/02/309898.jpg

Perhaps a plant? By the infamous NWO?

Also a 757 COULD make that size of a hole in the pentagon. Look at the size between the damage to the pentagon and the fire truck in that frame.

[StarsMine]

there's like 50 security cameras around the pentagon, and just cause it's a slow frame camera doesn't mean it couldn't see the plane lol

and yes it is a fact, open flames can't melt steel lol. you need it in a proper oven designed for heating metals.

It didnt get melted, it got structurally damaged, and hell broke loose.

[XxMastagunzxX]

there's like 50 security cameras around the pentagon, and just cause it's a slow frame camera doesn't mean it couldn't see the plane lol


The cameras are not aimed up in the air so they can see planes.

[maynard]

Dude My dad was at the pentagon when it got hit, I also went over to the pentagon a few days after it got hit, there was plane debris and building debris and a trail of destruction from where the plane hit.

destruction.. sure... but not enough.. debree... very little

you might have been there 2 days later.. but I watched the actual first news crew hit the scene when it was still smoking and everything, and there was no plane. the reported herself was even like "I'm not sure whats going on, there's no actual plain here or debree that would even resemble a plain. hour-hour and a half later, that vid was pulled from TV.....

you ppl can believe whatever you want, but the fact is science disagrees with this entire thing, and there's like no facts other then the fact that yes, 2 planes did hit the WTC.. other then that the rest is a big fucking mystery....

I also find it hard 2 believe that they were even able 2 take over all the plaines. 1 the door 2 the cock pit is always locked, 2 they're armed in the cock pit, they have a gun, and 3 ive never known ppl 2 just sit there and wait to die, there was like what, 5 dudes on each plane or something with box cutters? give me a break, the Americans I know would have stormed them and fought for there lives.... nothing adds up about 9/11

[THE HOLY SH**T!]

Maynard: Steel can be WEAKENED due to fire damage, and the steel was already WEAKENED due to structural damage. And it was. That is a FACT. Also the south tower did slightly tip before falling back into itself (check the stills) considering the majority of the damage was on one corner. The north tower went straight down because the plane hit it almost directly at center.

Also what basis do you have to imply that the tower should have just tipped over like a tree?

The footage I gave you WAS live. The firefighters testimony mainly discusses the collapse (one group talks about the towers going BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM down the building) and during a fire explosions do happen. Despite all these "explosions" there doesn't seem to be enough to show that a sufficient amount (such as what was seen in the building you showed that was less than half the size of the twin towers ) was used to destroy the building.


Also why were plane parts found by firefighters and rescue staff at the scene of the pentagon, why was a light pole shown wedged inside a taxi cab (one of five that were knocked off due to the plane hitting it), and why was there so much witness testimony discussing a large aircraft (with windows on the side)?

http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2005/02/309898.jpg

Perhaps a plant? By the infamous NWO?

Also a 757 COULD make that size of a hole in the pentagon. Look at the size between the damage to the pentagon and the fire truck in that frame.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7092/hmmhd.jpg

[StarsMine]

destruction.. sure... but not enough.. debree... very little

you might have been there 2 days later.. but I watched the actual first news crew hit the scene when it was still smoking and everything, and there was no plane. the reported herself was even like "I'm not sure whats going on, there's no actual plain here or debree that would even resemble a plain. hour-hour and a half later, that vid was pulled from TV.....

you ppl can believe whatever you want, but the fact is science disagrees with this entire thing, and there's like no facts other then the fact that yes, 2 planes did hit the WTC.. other then that the rest is a big fucking mystery....

I also find it hard 2 believe that they were even able 2 take over all the plaines. 1 the door 2 the cock pit is always locked, 2 they're armed in the cock pit, they have a gun, and 3 ive never known ppl 2 just sit there and wait to die, there was like what, 5 dudes on each plane or something with box cutters? give me a break, the Americans I know would have stormed them and fought for there lives.... nothing adds up about 9/11

when were cockpits locked before 9/11? I had gone up in them as a kid while in a flying plane. So what if they had a gun, you don't have time to pull out a gun when if you have one next to your fucking head.
Engineers can show you what happened to the damn plane, and like that other guy said why the hell would there security cameras be pointed at the air? the point at the god damn doors.

[loka]

Jeez. You don't take into account what the floors of the WTC had for combustible material. Steel doesn't need to burn, it melts overtime with alot of heat. Depending on the temperature of the fire, and the properties to melt steel, it can in fact happen. Your also not taking into account the fireproofing of steel because steel is made from heat.

If the allowed temperature of fireproofing steel is 1004F and a fire burns at 2000F... chances are that steel is going to melt.

[XxMastagunzxX]

destruction.. sure... but not enough.. debree... very little


you ppl can believe whatever you want, but the fact is science disagrees with this entire thing

Science proves there were no explosions

I also find it hard 2 believe that they were even able 2 take over all the plaines. 1 the door 2 the cock pit is always locked, 2 they're armed in the cock pit, they have a gun, and 3 ive never known ppl 2 just sit there and wait to die, there was like what, 5 dudes on each plane or something with box cutters? give me a break, the Americans I know would have stormed them and fought for there lives.... nothing adds up about 9/11

They didn't know they were going to die by hitting the trade centers. They probably thought they only wanted money.

[maynard]

Maynard: Steel can be WEAKENED due to fire damage, and the steel was already WEAKENED due to structural damage. And it was. That is a FACT. Also the south tower did slightly tip before falling back into itself (check the stills) considering the majority of the damage was on one corner. The north tower went straight down because the plane hit it almost directly at center.

Also what basis do you have to imply that the tower should have just tipped over like a tree?

The footage I gave you WAS live. The firefighters testimony mainly discusses the collapse (one group talks about the towers going BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM down the building) and during a fire explosions do happen. Despite all these "explosions" there doesn't seem to be enough to show that a sufficient amount (such as what was seen in the building you showed that was less than half the size of the twin towers ) was used to destroy the building.


Also why were plane parts found by firefighters and rescue staff at the scene of the pentagon, why was a light pole shown wedged inside a taxi cab (one of five that were knocked off due to the plane hitting it), and why was there so much witness testimony discussing a large aircraft (with windows on the side)?

http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2005/02/309898.jpg

Perhaps a plant? By the infamous NWO?

Also a 757 COULD make that size of a hole in the pentagon. Look at the size between the damage to the pentagon and the fire truck in that frame.

I don't care about your pole, or scrap metal. if you've ever seen a plane crash before you know what it looks like, and that's NOT like what they show you at the pentagon Lol.

steel beaing weakend at the top, would have no made the building come down.... and it can only be slightly weakened, and we're talking a SMALL weakness lol, nothing even remotly hot enough 2 do what they claim

[XxMastagunzxX]

Where is your proof maynard?

[StarsMine]

I don't care about your pole, or scrap metal. if you've ever seen a plane crash before you know what it looks like, and that's NOT like what they show you at the pentagon Lol.

steel beaing weakend at the top, would have no made the building come down.... and it can only be slightly weakened, and we're talking a SMALL weakness lol, nothing even remotly hot enough 2 do what they claim

Crash landing and a full on headfirst crash are 2 VERY DIFFERENT things.

[XxMastagunzxX]

Crash landing and a full on headfirst crash are 2 VERY DIFFERENT things.

Yeah the plane was over 300mph so there definitely wouldn't be as much debri.

[loka]

when were cockpits locked before 9/11? I had gone up in them as a kid while in a flying plane. So what if they had a gun, you don't have time to pull out a gun when if you have one next to your fucking head.
Engineers can show you what happened to the damn plane, and like that other guy said why the hell would there security cameras be pointed at the air? the point at the god damn doors.

Yeah access to cockpits stopped after 9/11 happened. Before then you could ask to see the cockpit, and depending... sometimes the flight attendants would let you especially if you were a kid. They also used to let the door open when you boarded. Now they close the door before flights, and lock it during flights.

[maynard]

when were cockpits locked before 9/11? I had gone up in them as a kid while in a flying plane. So what if they had a gun, you don't have time to pull out a gun when if you have one next to your fucking head.
Engineers can show you what happened to the damn plane, and like that other guy said why the hell would there security cameras be pointed at the air? the point at the god damn doors.

Lol there's cameras looking at EVERY angle of that building, including cameras across the street looking at the pentagon, get your facts strait if you want 2 debate. what I'm saying is controversial, what you're saying is just stupid.

there's no reason they could NOT show footage of it. there's also businesses across the way and the pentagon security went there right after and took there security tapes as well. any tape that could have shown what happend went into strict lock down, other then 1 tape that jsut shows a small explosion on the wall lol. the fact is that plain is BIG even in the footage when there's the explosion youd see the back or front end of it 2 some degree.

also they didn't have guns...

[StarsMine]

Lol there's cameras looking at EVERY angle of that building, including cameras across the street looking at the pentagon, get your facts strait if you want 2 debate. what I'm saying is controversial, what you're saying is just stupid.

there's no reason they could NOT show footage of it. there's also businesses across the way and the pentagon security went there right after and took there security tapes as well. any tape that could have shown what happend went into strict lock down, other then 1 tape that jsut shows a small explosion on the wall lol. the fact is that plain is BIG even in the footage when there's the explosion youd see the back or front end of it 2 some degree.

also they didn't have guns...
I didnt say they did have guns, that was a hypothetical situation, whatever they hijacked it with, it wouldnt have matter if they had a gun or not as it would have caught them completely off guard.

[XxMastagunzxX]

If you look how shitty their cameras are then you will realize the plane was going so fast it hit between frames. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vwzT0QnwtTE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vwzT0QnwtTE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[StarsMine]

If you look how shitty their cameras are then you will realize the plane was going so fast it hit between frames. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vwzT0QnwtTE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vwzT0QnwtTE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Thank you

[maynard]

Where is your proof maynard?

Lol the question is where's yours

how many times do I have 2 state for you ppl that un-like most of you, I wasn't 8 years old when this happened, I was actually watching the news the moment this took place, I saw the first news crews say theres no plain debree, just lotts of scrap metal, then an hour later all those tapes were pulled from LIVE TV, just like the security tapes.


if the government wasn't in control of 9/11 then they sure as hell knew it was going 2 happen.. and I would say thats' equally as bad.

they were doing drills based on planes hitting into the pentagon years before 9/11 took place.

[Christmas]

I don't care about your pole, or scrap metal. if you've ever seen a plane crash before you know what it looks like, and that's NOT like what they show you at the pentagon Lol.

Okay so show me what happens when a plane hits a much more rigid material.

Oh wait, I can show YOU.

tJDqXbtsKlw

Planes are not like cars. When they are at incredibly high speeds and hit very rigid concrete they are going to break into very small pieces. Why do you think planes are so fucking light?

And don't try to compare the crash at the pentagon with the crash at NYC because they are hitting completely different materials.

tJDqXbtsKlwsteel beaing weakend at the top, would have no made the building come down.... and it can only be slightly weakened, and we're talking a SMALL weakness lol, nothing even remotly hot enough 2 do what they claim[/QUOTE]

I guess it is strange that steel weakened at the point of impact would collapse from the point of impact down. What a weird concept.

Seriously the support system below the point of impact was not meant to withstand the dynamic force that hit it when the collapse began. There is a big difference between static and dynamic forces.

And small weakness? Let me see what you have to back that up. Mastagunz brought a good source.


I also find it hard 2 believe that they were even able 2 take over all the plaines. 1 the door 2 the cock pit is always locked,

Evidence?


2 they're armed in the cock pit, they have a gun,

Evidence?


and 3 ive never known ppl 2 just sit there and wait to die, there was like what, 5 dudes on each plane or something with box cutters? give me a break, the Americans I know would have stormed them and fought for there lives.... nothing adds up about 9/11

Bull fucking shit, Maynard. Not once had a hijacked commercial airliner been used as a missile, so you mean to tell me that an average joe who is affected by the shock and awe of a hijacking is going to go gung-ho and try to take back the plane when they could easily sit back and wait for the plane to land and let the professionals deal with it (without suffering a scratch)? Also while there is the threat of a bomb being on board? Get real.

[maynard]

Thank you

lmfao... and? this shows nothing.

[maynard]

like I said prior, I'm not interested in your biased views, I want actual facts or I'm not interested. and the first crews at pentagon and WTC gave me more proof then anything... even more so when the governemnt then had them stop showing those news segments.

if the government didn't do it. they knew it was happening and coming.

[StarsMine]

Bull fucking shit, Maynard. Not once had a hijacked commercial airliner been used as a missile, so you mean to tell me that an average joe who is affected by the shock and awe of a hijacking is going to go gung-ho and try to take back the plane when they could easily sit back and wait for the plane to land and let the professionals deal with it (without suffering a scratch)? Also while there is the threat of a bomb being on board? Get real.


Also there was the plane that landed in Pennsylvania, They fought and therefor it did not hit the target. :wtg:

[XxMastagunzxX]

like I said prior, I'm not interested in your biased views, I want actual facts or I'm not interested. and the first crews at pentagon and WTC gave me more proof then anything... even more so when the governemnt then had them stop showing those news segments.

if the government didn't do it. they knew it was happening and coming.

You haven't posted any facts yourself. And your view is obviously the one that is biased.

[StarsMine]

like I said prior, I'm not interested in your biased views, I want actual facts or I'm not interested. and the first crews at pentagon and WTC gave me more proof then anything... even more so when the governemnt then had them stop showing those news segments.

if the government didn't do it. they knew it was happening and coming.

Who said they didn't know it was coming? of course they knew something was coming, there is always a terror threat, what they don't know is where and when every attack will come from.

And what Mastagun said about your facts is true

[Christmas]

Lol the question is where's yours

Pretty sure the burden has been proven in spades on our part. None to come from yours, though. Still waiting on that figure you have regarding how weak steel can get from burning jet fuel.


how many times do I have 2 state for you ppl that un-like most of you, I wasn't 8 years old when this happened, I was actually watching the news the moment this took place, I saw the first news crews say theres no plain debree, just lotts of scrap metal, then an hour later all those tapes were pulled from LIVE TV, just like the security tapes.

Strange because there is a lot of news footage out there, both with testimony of explosions, small jet planes, large jet planes, north of Citgo station, south of Citgo station, no plane parts, lots of plane parts, etc etc etc. I don't see any coverup attempt.



if the government wasn't in control of 9/11 then they sure as hell knew it was going 2 happen.. and I would say thats' equally as bad.

I'm sure they did.


they were doing drills based on planes hitting into the pentagon years before 9/11 took place.

The Empire State Building was hit by a plane in the past, so what makes you so paranoid that drills are doing such in the event that a plane accidentally crashes into a very important government building? With an airport nearby?

Heaven forbid the government runs a plausible mass casualty exercise.

[Christmas]

like I said prior, I'm not interested in your biased views, I want actual facts or I'm not interested. and the first crews at pentagon and WTC gave me more proof then anything... even more so when the governemnt then had them stop showing those news segments.

if the government didn't do it. they knew it was happening and coming.

Plane parts are not biased. The structural damage and accredited engineers research is not biased. Your interpretation of them is biased.

Are you saying the FDNY, the pentagon, and the civilians who were there were in on it? Did they just magically get rid of flight 77 since it couldn't have been that plane? What about the witnesses? Co-conspirators.

Your paranoia is telling.

[maynard]

You haven't posted any facts yourself. And your view is obviously the one that is biased.

sorry that I can't post video photage the government has restricted.. ill try and figure out a way. also I spoke what I believe, and said why... you ppl are the ones trying 2 either just argue with me or convince me of differnt. I personally don't care what the majority of you think on this cause you're all 2 damn young 2 have a real opinion on a 10 year old matter.

[loka]

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf
Friend who is a civil engineer gave me this link for a paper I was doing on 9/11 for terrorism class.

http://www.asce.org/pdf/5-1-02wtc_testimony.pdf
This one is just testimony of engineers who tested out how the building collapsed.

[XxMastagunzxX]

Maynard I was 11 years old and I have seen all of the footage as it happened live.

[Christmas]

http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf
Friend who is a civil engineer gave me this link for a paper I was doing on 9/11 for terrorism class.

http://www.asce.org/pdf/5-1-02wtc_testimony.pdf
This one is just testimony of engineers who tested out how the building collapsed.

I haven't read the asce's research on the collapses but I can guarantee that NIST's is amazing work.

[maynard]

Plane parts are not biased. The structural damage and accredited engineers research is not biased. Your interpretation of them is biased.

Are you saying the FDNY, the pentagon, and the civilians who were there were in on it? Did they just magically get rid of flight 77 since it couldn't have been that plane? What about the witnesses? Co-conspirators.

Your paranoia is telling.

nahh I'm saying they were doing drills at the pentagon years prior 2 this happening that included a plane hitting into the pentagon, and by some kid of luck the majority of the staff was on the opisite side of the building when it happened just out of luck right?

[XxMastagunzxX]

Maynard most of your argument comes from assuming things...

[Christmas]

nahh I'm saying they were doing drills at the pentagon years prior 2 this happening that included a plane hitting into the pentagon, and by some kid of luck the majority of the staff was on the opisite side of the building when it happened just out of luck right?

I'm sorry that a single plane can't hit 90% of the pentagon.

[maynard]

I'm sorry that a single plane can't hit 90% of the pentagon.

yeah.. we will just call it luck that no 1 was near where it hit.... and that they were doing drills and preparing for this 2 happen years prior 2 it happening...

[Curdy]

I think the BBC did a documentry debunking a lot of these 9/11 theory's

tbh i thk people who thought of these theorys are in it for the money which i find pretty out of order you know. the fact is over 2000 people died that day

i find it hard to believe a government such as USA would commit mass murder in this modern age.

[StarsMine]

I think the BBC did a documentry debunking a lot of these 9/11 theory's

tbh i thk people who thought of these theorys are in it for the money which i find pretty out of order you know. the fact is over 2000 people died that day

i find it hard to believe a government such as USA would commit mass murder in this modern age.

Yea that BBC thing did, I just dont remember what it was called.

[Christmas]

yeah.. we will just call it luck that no 1 was near where it hit.... and that they were doing drills and preparing for this 2 happen years prior 2 it happening...

What are you talking about? There were workers in the pentagon who were killed in the attack.

Also:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3533.htm


An Army medic found the practice realistic.

"You get to see the people that we'll be dealing with and to think about the scenarios and what you would do," Sgt. Kelly Brown said. "It's a real good scenario and one that could happen easily."

This is the only drill that was done regarding a plane crash in the pentagon, and it was one of many drills done during those few days.

[maynard]

i find it hard to believe a government such as USA would commit mass murder in this modern age.

wow really? you really think the bush family gives 2 shits about you? or your family? all politicians, the wall street money masters, and ppl of power and influence care about is themselfs. you honestly think if you went 2 bush and said, if we can kill 1k of your ppl, and we will give you 10 billion, he wouldn't take it? give me a break lol.

also if it's all about making money why are every major conspiracy vid free for download? sure you can buy them if you want, but they provide them free online for the world so they can see it. if it was just a money making scheme I don't think they would give away all they have 2 offer for free.

9/11 aside the federal government are greasy mother fuckers.

[Curdy]

i must admit the pentagon was a tad suspicious i must admit, considering the lack of any decent video of it.

[XxMastagunzxX]

Curdy go back and see the video I posted. The camera is like 4 fps...definitely enough time for a plane to hit between frames

[Christmas]

Curdy go back and see the video I posted. The camera is like 4 fps...definitely enough time for a plane to hit between frames

An object is visible in the video, and using that with the damage to the poles, damage to the pentagon, plane debris, identification of the bodies, and witness testimony, the evidence of flight 77 being involved is easily corroborated.

[maynard]

Curdy go back and see the video I posted. The camera is like 4 fps...definitely enough time for a plane to hit between frames

lmfao you can't see a plane in that vid, give me a break. and what you mean your vid? that's like the main video that was released by the government for them 2 have claim that a plane hit, regardless of the fact there's no plane... as I said, there's cameras on every angle of that building and across the way, all were restricted.... why? if they're not up 2 bull shit, why not just release some good footage, or 1 of the far off cameras that would actually show it.

posting the same vids thats been around for 10 years isn't any form of proof...

[maynard]

An object is visible in the video, and using that with the damage to the poles, damage to the pentagon, plane debris, identification of the bodies, and witness testimony, the evidence of flight 77 being involved is easily corroborated.

when you're the federal government, yeah, it is.

[XxMastagunzxX]

posting the same vids thats been around for 10 years isn't any form of proof...

Neither is denying everything we said and making up more excuses and showing NO proof whatsoever

Like I said all you're doing is assuming things

And the point of my arguing was not to change your mind. It was to show evidence that goes against what you are saying. I have presented my case well and I am done.

[Curdy]

like i said the BBC documentry was a very informantive piece of television. since I dont really trust you yanks to do a decent documentry.

[Christmas]

lmfao you can't see a plane in that vid, give me a break. and what you mean your vid? that's like the main video that was released by the government for them 2 have claim that a plane hit, regardless of the fact there's no plane... as I said, there's cameras on every angle of that building and across the way, all were restricted.... why? if they're not up 2 bull shit, why not just release some good footage, or 1 of the far off cameras that would actually show it.

posting the same vids thats been around for 10 years isn't any form of proof...

Because the government doesn't live to serve every waking desire you have regarding the impact.

But hey, lets look at the facts.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats." –Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept.


Steve Riskus: "I could see the "American Airlines" logo...It knocked over a few light poles in its way."

Mark Bright: "...at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down."

Mike Walter: "...it clipped one of these light poles ... and slammed right into the Pentagon right there. It was an American Airlines jet."

Rodney Washington: "...knocking over light poles"

Kirk Milburn: "I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles."

Afework Hagos: "It hit some lampposts on the way in."

Kat Gaines: "saw a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles."

D.S. Khavkin: "First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles."

Wanda Ramey: "I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant.

Penny Elgas: A piece of American Airlines Flight 77 was torn from the plane as it clipped a light pole. It landed in her car. Now in the Smithsonian Institution's 9/11 collection.

Lincoln Liebner: "It was probably about thirty feet off the ground, clipping the lampposts. I could clearly see through the windows of the plane. It was maybe going 500 miles an hour - when it just flew...into the Pentagon ... less than a hundred yards away."

Take a scroll through that link for more.

[maynard]

Neither is denying everything we said and making up more excuses and showing NO proof whatsoever

Like I said all you're doing is assuming things

And the point of my arguing was not to change your mind. It was to show evidence that goes against what you are saying. I have presented my case well and I am done.

... we've been over this. my proof is being restricted by the government. it's next 2 the security tapes, and the live on site footage that was taken.

and the diff between you and I is, you guys seem 2 be trying 2 get me 2 change my mind and join your side on this argument. I'm just voicing my opinion over serous flaws behind damn near everything that happend that day. if I recall I was talking 2 loka about it, and every 1 decided 2 jump in with there opinion and harass me with crap proof on there side.

[Christmas]

... we've been over this. my proof is being restricted by the government. it's next 2 the security tapes, and the live on site footage that was taken.

and the diff between you and I is, you guys seem 2 be trying 2 get me 2 change my mind and join your side on this argument. I'm just voicing my opinion over serous flaws behind damn near everything that happend that day.

The only flaws are ones you want to find.

Out of curiosity why is the evidence presented not enough? There is witness testimony, plane debris, damage to the pentagon appropriate to the plane that hit it, damage to the lightposts appropriate to the plane that hit it, etc.

You seem to cling on a few pieces of witness testimony that you say magically disappeared, and the videos that you say the government is withholding from you. These are incredibly petty things to make such a big deal over.

[Curdy]

when i think about it more it does seem more logical now after reading that

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/PentagonFireball.tiff/PentagonFireball-full.jpg

whats so special about this pic you may ask?

well i have seen a plane crash before in an airshow some years ago and it looks exactly like that.

so i think i may have figured something out just now

[Christmas]

Maynard, if you honestly want to research another side and see some serious work regarding evidence that the government didn't commit the atrocious attacks on 9/11, just click this link.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home

[loka]

The BBC show was called 9/11 The Conspiracy Files. BBC has no ties to American politics so everything they divulge will be with no bias.

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/index.htm

There's other crap, but you can find much redacted papers going to Barnes and Noble

My papers however will not be found on the internet. Professor was a former FBI agent and alot of the shit he gave us was redacted.

[Christmas]

The BBC show was called 9/11 The Conspiracy Files. BBC has no ties to American politics so everything they divulge will be with no bias.

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/index.htm

There's other crap, but you can find much redacted papers going to Barnes and Noble

My papers however will not be found on the internet. Professor was a former FBI agent and alot of the shit he gave us was redacted.

Why is that?

[loka]

They include names of people and locations of things they didn't want us to have a knowledge? Umm that would be the reason of redacted information. Doesn't take a genius to figure out what type of information is redacted.

[maynard]

The only flaws are ones you want to find.

Out of curiosity why is the evidence presented not enough? There is witness testimony, plane debris, damage to the pentagon appropriate to the plane that hit it, damage to the lightposts appropriate to the plane that hit it, etc.

You seem to cling on a few pieces of witness testimony that you say magically disappeared, and the videos that you say the government is withholding from you. These are incredibly petty things to make such a big deal over.

fine ill tell why, but only cause your asking.

-the entire building coming down the way it did I call bull shit

-all planes go fast, and ive seen many plane crashes, theres generally still big ass chunks of the plane, and a shit ton of debree. this did not match up with the pentagon at all. it was all small ass twisted metal, also on the left and right side of the hole, there's 0 impact dmg from the wings. also there's 2 holes, not sure what the other hole was even from... but lets not get into that, there's been enough debate over the first hole being fake, why get into another :icon_mrgreen:

-theres that audio file of the guy in the plane who called his mom or something while was on the plane that ppl often claim is evidence... now if you've ever taken a 757 before or any big plane and have been high up in the sky, you know damn well cell phones don't work worth 2 shits... even if you can manage 2 get a weak signal that stays consitant, you sound like total shit 2 the person your calling, you chop in and out... my other problem is that the dude doesn't even sound scared at all... it's just bs I say

-the 1 plane that hit the field, I saw the live footage of that and there was no plane, just a bit of twisted metal again.

- just prior 2 the building falling you see small explosions going through it and blowing out windows and dust... then the building comes down.

the war for oil has been going on for like 200 years now out there. this was no diff. also america makes a point of getting involved in any war they can every 10-20 years cause it boosts the shit out of there economy. I don't know why ppl think it's far gone for 1 of the most powerful governments on the planet 2 take out 2k ppl, so they can go over seas, get there foot in the door, and have access 2 billions of dollars worth of oil.

but like I said before, I had beefs with the fed government prior 2 this.. Ive never liked them, but I just find the entire 9/11 thing fisy, and I think it was a perfect plan that was made by gov 2 further value and make America progress.

I could think of more reasons but ive been sitting here smoking the vaporizer and it's becoming a bit difficult.

[Curdy]

maynard i was able to use my mobile phone on a plane before at lower altitudes so its not impossible, since these attacks where commited at low alttitude cell or mobile usage is possible.

edit

should be noted the first country to be invaded by the west on the war on terror was Afghanistan not Iraq. Afghanistan has no oil...

[maynard]

maynard i was able to use my mobile phone on a plane before at lower altitudes so its not impossible, since these attacks where commited at low alttitude cell or mobileusage is possible.

as I said I'm done arguing with you all. if you don't like my views, 2 bad. ill read the site christmas posted, but I don't really feel like arguing with you ppl anymore.

[Curdy]

I would hardly call this a perfect plan maynard America is now in trillion's of dollars of debt as a result of this war.

[Christmas]

fine ill tell why, but only cause your asking.

-the entire building coming down the way it did I call bull shit

You know nothing of the structures of buildings, which you demonstrated quite well with your "fire can't melt steel" bologna. NIST has proven that it was possible due to fire and jet fuel.


-all planes go fast, and ive seen many plane crashes, theres generally still big ass chunks of the plane, and a shit ton of debree. this did not match up with the pentagon at all. it was all small ass twisted metal, also on the left and right side of the hole, there's 0 impact dmg from the wings. also there's 2 holes, not sure what the other hole was even from... but lets not get into that, there's been enough debate over the first hole being fake, why get into another :icon_mrgreen:

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html


-theres that audio file of the guy in the plane who called his mom or something while was on the plane that ppl often claim is evidence... now if you've ever taken a 757 before or any big plane and have been high up in the sky, you know damn well cell phones don't work worth 2 shits... even if you can manage 2 get a weak signal that stays consitant, you sound like total shit 2 the person your calling, you chop in and out... my other problem is that the dude doesn't even sound scared at all... it's just bs I say

This has been debunked. For starters I believe that was a call made from an airphone. Secondly, it has been shown that calls have been made with cell phones at low altitudes. Third this implies that either the man who made the call and his mother were in on it or the mother was duped into thinking that some random man was her own son. Neither are plausible.


-the 1 plane that hit the field, I saw the live footage of that and there was no plane, just a bit of twisted metal again.

90% of the plane was recovered.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/inv.pennsylvania.site/index.html



- just prior 2 the building falling you see small explosions going through it and blowing out windows and dust... then the building comes down.

No you don't. A video I posted already disproves this.


the war for oil has been going on for like 200 years now out there. this was no diff. also america makes a point of getting involved in any war they can every 10-20 years cause it boosts the shit out of there economy.

Look at the United States current debt and tell me that again.


I don't know why ppl think it's far gone for 1 of the most powerful governments on the planet 2 take out 2k ppl, so they can go over seas, get there foot in the door, and have access 2 billions of dollars worth of oil.

No one said it wasn't possible for it to happen. However it is not possible that 9/11 was an inside job based on the evidence provided.

Enjoy your vaporizer.

[Curdy]

I wouldn't call this arguing mearly a discussion between adults.

[maynard]

No one said it wasn't possible for it to happen. However it is not possible that 9/11 was an inside job based on the evidence provided.

Enjoy your vaporizer.

if it is/was an inside job, do you really think government would leave available evidence? ofcourse not... that's why as ive stated I'm not trying 2 change your ppl's minds. I voiced 2 loka I believe that there's skeptic people out there like myself regarding this. then yall decided 2 rain down on me saying the same shit over and over, while unable 2 pick up the overly obvious fact that you guys voicing your opinions against me and for how you think it went means jack shit 2 me lol. I never was looking for a back and forth argument.


I wouldn't call this arguing mearly a discussion between adults.

beyond a pointless 1 then.

[walterbrunswick]

maynard I have to say that your argument is very weak, in light of all the evidence that loka, Christmas and Mastagunz presented.

In any case, the government is Fucked Up Beyond All Reason (FUBAR), and I wouldn't doubt that they had this planned or at least had the knowledge that it was going to happen, and then write it off as an excuse to go to war (for oil).

Still there are puzzling things such as Building 7, or what those other explosions heard around the WTC were. Wouldn't be surprised if they were planted bombs...

[StarsMine]

if it is/was an inside job, do you really think government would leave available evidence? ofcourse not...


beyond a pointless 1 then.

If it was an outside job would there be evidence of an inside job? of course not.

That was a really week argument.

[Christmas]

if it is/was an inside job, do you really think government would leave available evidence? ofcourse not... that's why as ive stated I'm not trying 2 change your ppl's minds. I voiced 2 loka I believe that there's skeptic people out there like myself regarding this. then yall decided 2 rain down on me saying the same shit over and over, while unable 2 pick up the overly obvious fact that you guys voicing your opinions against me and for how you think it went means jack shit 2 me lol. I never was looking for a back and forth argument.



beyond a pointless 1 then.

So the evidence that 9/11 is an inside job is that there is no evidence that 9/11 is an inside job.

Sorry Maynard, there is a difference in being a skeptic (which you are not doing) and believing something just because (which you are doing). Saying "The towers couldn't have fallen like that" is not thinking like a skeptic. That is thinking like a conspiracy theorist.

And the most unfortunate thing is you misrepresent my position as being "just my opinion." It isn't just my opinion. It is the fact of the situation backed by multiple credible experts, physical evidence, and witness testimony. And I have brought all of those to the discussion, while you haven't.

[maynard]

So the evidence that 9/11 is an inside job is that there is no evidence that 9/11 is an inside job.

Sorry Maynard, there is a difference in being a skeptic (which you are not doing) and believing something just because (which you are doing). Saying "The towers couldn't have fallen like that" is not thinking like a skeptic. That is thinking like a conspiracy theorist.

And the most unfortunate thing is you misrepresent my position as being "just my opinion." It isn't just my opinion. It is the fact of the situation backed by multiple credible experts, physical evidence, and witness testimony. And I have brought all of those to the discussion, while you haven't.

what part of I'm not arguing with you anymore dont you get? you got your opinion, and I got mine, get over it.

[maynard]

If it was an outside job would there be evidence of an inside job? of course not.

That was a really week argument.

are you all retarded? It's not an argument, it's what I believe, if you don't like it, fuck off then. I could careless if you see things the same way as myself or not. quit crying already lol.

[Curdy]

fair enough then.

[maynard]

lets get back on topic, and talk about some drugs and diff demensions.

[anex]

Agreed. I woke up this morning to a "Wtf happened to my thread?!"

[maynard]

Agreed. I woke up this morning to a "Wtf happened to my thread?!"

Lol...

[StarsMine]

Agreed. I woke up this morning to a "Wtf happened to my thread?!"

Maynard jacked it up thats what happened :lmao:

[anex]

oRWwI61so5Q
SafwXdP7ylc
JkxieS-6WuA
Time travel, wormholes and dimensions anyone?

[maynard]

the how to time travel vid was cool.

[Jeimuzu]

oRWwI61so5Q
SafwXdP7ylc
JkxieS-6WuA
Time travel, wormholes and dimensions anyone?

I showed you the third one. =D

[OMGBEARS]

This thread at one time had more posts being made than I was reading. I was reading post after post and every time I went to the next page there was a new last page.

WTF people. Weed is cool k?

[anex]

I know James. When I watched that worm hole video where they were talking about bending space, I instantly thought of that video.

[Jeimuzu]

On a side note, the 3rd dimension is a theoretical realm of space and time, of which the particles of dark matter of this parallel, and alternate reality, bend light to collide with the electrical charges of the subconscious mind to create the illusion of movement. What is light becomes dark, what is dark becomes light. Some look upon it and see nothingness, while others claim to see the face of God.

Yeah okay, I'm done.

[OMGBEARS]

On a side note, the 3rd dimension is a theoretical realm of space and time, of which the particles of dark matter of this parallel, and alternate reality, bend light to collide with the electrical charges of the subconscious mind to create the illusion of movement. What is light becomes dark, what is dark becomes light. Some look upon it and see nothingness, while others claim to see the face of God.

Yeah okay, I'm done.

Have you ever dropped acid?

Yeah I've seen space and time.

[maynard]

Have you ever dropped acid?

Yeah I've seen space and time.

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::wtg:

[Curdy]

I dont do drugs no more, gotta start acting my age now. lol

[StarsMine]

That imagining the 10th dimension video was interesting.

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/115/howtoconfuseanidiot.jpg

[anex]

So I stumbled upon this channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TEDtalksDirector

Computing a theory of everything

http://www.wolframalpha.com
http://tones.wolfram.com/generate/advanced.html?generator

60P7717-XOQ

[uuntiltheendd]

Have you ever dropped acid?

Yeah I've seen space and time.

dmtttttttttt