just a thought about bans

[XX0wnsXY]

It seems that some people are having trouble telling the difference between a good player and wall hacks. i've seen many people get banned that were obviously not hacking, that still aren't unbanned.

what if in order to ban a wall hacker, a demo had to be provided before the ban, and zero made the decision. that way no innocent people get banned and stay that way for days, ultimately turning them off from ibis servers.

the only stipulation would be that the demos would surely have to have sb_status (even though they already should) so that a ban could be issued later if found evident of hacking.

thoughts?

[hallwagner]

It seems that some people are having trouble telling the difference between a good player and wall hacks. i've seen many people get banned that were obviously not hacking, that still aren't unbanned.

what if in order to ban a wall hacker, a demo had to be provided before the ban, and zero made the decision. that way no innocent people get banned and stay that way for days, ultimately turning them off from ibis servers.

the only stipulation would be that the demos would surely have to have sb_status (even though they already should) so that a ban could be issued later if found evident of hacking.

thoughts?

agreed. :wtg:

[Perry]

although a great idea, no one would ever be banned. Zero would take forever

[XX0wnsXY]

although a great idea, no one would ever be banned. Zero would take forever

as opposed to people always getting banned and then having to wait forever to become unbanned? It's a lose, lose really. I would rather deal with a waller than know that there are perfectly legit players that are banned and nothing is done about it.

I'm not talking about aimbotters here. The aimbotters are obvious and there is usually no question as to what hack they are using, but walling is something that takes more observation and should take more than one opinion before a ban is issued.

[Fireye]

as opposed to people always getting banned and then having to wait forever to become unbanned? It's a lose, lose really. I would rather deal with a waller than know that there are perfectly legit players that are banned and nothing is done about it.

I'm not talking about aimbotters here. The aimbotters are obvious and there is usually no question as to what hack they are using, but walling is something that takes more observation and should take more than one opinion before a ban is issued.

Don't rely on zero for feedback, having one point of failure is a bad idea. I think it's quite a good thought, but instead of submitting it to zero, put it in the Ban Requests forum with a demo. Wait for people to weigh in, then impose it.

(We can ban steamid's when they're not on the server, right?)

[acolyte_to_jippity]

...why don't people simply learn what a wall-hack looks like?

it's retarded to put more steps in the process, since it will just fuck shit up. instead, people have to learn what hacks look like before doing shit

[devour]

what admins and regulars in this community need to realize, is that not everything that seems to be a "wallhack" is a "wallhack". the more obvious ones, yeah, but radar hacks have been running rampant across the competitive scene for a while now. and with all these new companies recoding and updating the software that these kids pay for, it makes it difficult for anti-cheat clients to catch.

radar hacks are some of the most difficult hacks to catch, but also the most popular to code in the cheating scene.

[XX0wnsXY]

...why don't people simply learn what a wall-hack looks like?

it's retarded to put more steps in the process, since it will just fuck shit up. instead, people have to learn what hacks look like before doing shit

That is a given, but it won't happen. Wall hacks take a lot more experience to find, and instead of saying "Oh, that was one REALLY LUCKY SHOT", they say "OH MY GOD HACKS".

It takes a lot more experience to look at someone and say "Ok, that is not walling, that is skill/luck"...which doesn't happen anymore. It seems, that as soon as an admin has made up their mind that someone is walling, there is no going back. It's wrong and it's detrimental to the servers, and gives admins a bad name.

I agree with Fireye, that the idea of posting the demo for further opinion, would be better than putting the decision to zero..perhaps when we get our admin only section.

[devour]

the demos should be posted for all to see.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

That is a given, but it won't happen. Wall hacks take a lot more experience to find, and instead of saying "Oh, that was one REALLY LUCKY SHOT", they say "OH MY GOD HACKS".

It takes a lot more experience to look at someone and say "Ok, that is not walling, that is skill/luck"...which doesn't happen anymore. It seems, that as soon as an admin has made up their mind that someone is walling, there is no going back. It's wrong and it's detrimental to the servers, and gives admins a bad name.

I agree with Fireye, that the idea of posting the demo for further opinion, would be better than putting the decision to zero..perhaps when we get our admin only section.

i know that there have been plenty of people i've suspected, but after specing them for 10 rounds, if i don't have anything i delete the demo and move on. the way i see it, is if they're hacking there will be someone better than me to catch them if i couldn't see it.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Ban everyone rawrgg!!!

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Ban everyone rawrgg!!!

not funny after scott

[Vladninja]

While there have ban a few people who have had to wait an unfair amount of time to be unbanned...
I made a ban (got enough feedback that there wasn't enough evidence) and that the player was unbanned 3 hours later.

I think the issue is more why Mani is not allowing Admins or Clan from unbanning certain people. If this issue could be fixed the other wouldn't be a problem.

[Rage]

Here are the flaws with your idea, and I mean this with the utmost respect Ownz so don't take it as a personal shot.


Zero, he is a busy man. Not only does he have to handle the vast majority of everything IBIS related, but he also has a social life, and a complete life outside of IBIS. I feel we put enough burden on him as it is, and people like kavinsky don't understand how busy he truly must be.

And in all honesty, I wouldn't want him deciding who should get banned anyways. I mean come on. Look at the Hallwagner scrape. Zero had faith in that kid and gave him how many chances, when it was clear as fucking day that Hallwagner failed at being an admin, and as a player. No offence Hall. He gave him how many chances? WAY TO MANY and I'm sure you'd agree with me on that one...

Needless to say, Unless the structure of the authority system of IBIS were to change, than your idea wouldn't work. A few, very select, number of IBIS community members are rational enough and intelligent enough to make these sorts of decisions. If Zero implemented your idea, and allowed those very few and far between individuals to make the judgment calls, than it would be an astounding success in my mind.


And never forget Owns, I <3 U!!!!

[XX0wnsXY]

While there have ban a few people who have had to wait an unfair amount of time to be unbanned...
I made a ban (got enough feedback that there wasn't enough evidence) and that the player was unbanned 3 hours later.

I think the issue is more why Mani is not allowing Admins or Clan from unbanning certain people. If this issue could be fixed the other wouldn't be a problem.

But that wouldn't change the fact that other admins can't undo another admins ban. There would still be a process that would have to be followed. For instance, Joker banned freebase, and he wasn't hacking, but even though I know this...I can't just go unban him...that would create a whole new problem in itself.

Rage: No offense taken. The point of this thread is to get ideas and kind of see what direction this whole idea can go. I think the way it is, is just not sufficient.

[Joker]

Don't rely on zero for feedback, having one point of failure is a bad idea. I think it's quite a good thought, but instead of submitting it to zero, put it in the Ban Requests forum with a demo. Wait for people to weigh in, then impose it.

(We can ban steamid's when they're not on the server, right?)

Actually there currently isn't a way to ban people while they are not on the server, because mani admin plugin doesnt allow you to add a ban to the server unless they are on the server, now thats not to say that zero could possibly customize mani admin plugin a little bit and add a command that can add a ban while a person isn't on the server and the only other way to add a ban to the server w/o them being on the server is through the server files by just adding the steamid, ip, etc....

Also, just to commant on Ownzs' suggestion that would be agood idea as Rage said and they way things are right now is the best because there is really no other way that would be better because even if we were to change the way bans are added than that still means there will always be a process to get someone either banned or unbanned from a server and could take an even longer time to get unbanned if there are only a few people that can issue an unban, no offence Ownz

[Perry]

Although I havent been implementing the idea, I agree with owns and rage about posting before banning if not 110 percent sure about a hacker. I honestly have no idea how to tell if a radar hack is being used, and walling is extremely touchy...Therefore i ask now :P

[Vladninja]

But that wouldn't change the fact that other admins can't undo another admins ban. There would still be a process that would have to be followed. For instance, Joker banned freebase, and he wasn't hacking, but even though I know this...I can't just go unban him...that would create a whole new problem in itself.

Rage: No offense taken. The point of this thread is to get ideas and kind of see what direction this whole idea can go. I think the way it is, is just not sufficient.

Well it is within the Clan members right to unban a player (if needed)... The problem in the past has been when both NYS and James were ubable to unban certain players.

[mag36]

It seems that some people are having trouble telling the difference between a good player and wall hacks. i've seen many people get banned that were obviously not hacking, that still aren't unbanned.

what if in order to ban a wall hacker, a demo had to be provided before the ban, and zero made the decision. that way no innocent people get banned and stay that way for days, ultimately turning them off from ibis servers.

the only stipulation would be that the demos would surely have to have sb_status (even though they already should) so that a ban could be issued later if found evident of hacking.

thoughts?

I like owns Idea but it is flawed to wait for zero
So i propose this:
Person can not be banned till least 3 to 5 admins have actually watched the demo.
Secondly many of you say you cant ban someone from a server without them being in game......
THATS NOT EXACTLY TRUE

There is a list of commands you can use. Though I have not tried them all to verify if they work.

ma_aban_name
ma_aban_pname

ma_akick_ip
ma_akick_name
ma_akick_pname
ma_akick_steam
ma_ashow_ip
ma_ashow_name
ma_ashow_pname
ma_ashow_steam

ma_ban
ma_banip

ma_unauto_ip
ma_unauto_name
ma_unauto_pname
ma_unauto_steam
ma_unban

ma_akick_steam <steamID>
This will autokick anyone who tries to join a server with that ID

ma_ashow_steam
Shows whos on the list to be Autokicked

ma_unauto_steam <steamID>
This takes them off.

Not sure if ma_aban works.

Zero could easily add these to mani in-game menu system.
Anyways I like the idea of not banning until Least 3 people have overlooked the Demo, Unless its a extremely obvious hax.

[Rapedollar$]

ive only had 1 ban overturned since ive played on ibis...... just watch your shit, if you arnt sure ask somebody else... thats what the ban request thread is for...

[XX0wnsXY]

ive only had 1 ban overturned since ive played on ibis...... just watch your shit, if you arnt sure ask somebody else... thats what the ban request thread is for...

People should, but they don't. They assume they know what a hack looks like and just do what they want.

[DeadEyeDeNNi$]

Actually there currently isn't a way to ban people while they are not on the server


Not true, and no u can't have the command.

[Joker]

Not true, and no u can't have the command.

rofl dennis umm idk what to tell you i know how to ban people w/o them being on the server i dont need to know commands im just saying to ban someone by their steamid isnt possible through mani admin that are not on the server, but if anyone were to really want someone to get banned they will get banned regardless if they are on or not because of ma_aban commands or ma_akick commands, what you say isnt true either