016 Vagabond [310] v1.1.8

[ZERO]

Vagabond
Required Level: 310
Levels per ability: 10
Allowed per Team: 1
Item Restrictions: cloak,ring,claw,helm
(Scout only)
Flickering Shadows: 30-48% chance to be invisible from far
Adrinaline: 20-66% speed increase
Scout: 13-55% chance to deal extra damage
Levitation: Lower gravity to .68-.26 of normal
Complete Invisibility: Teleport to and become invisible at increasing speeds

http://www.ibisgaming.com/wcs_stats/player.php?id=11856



1.0.0

Initial Release


1.0.1

Updated effect length for Scout from 30 to 3 seconds.


1.0.2

Prevented scouts from being dropped by ensuring that all weapons are removed.


1.0.3

Allowed per Team: 1


1.0.4

Changed the way the scout is removed.
Force players to knife automatically when teleporting.


1.0.5

Patched to be effected by ultimate immunity, if a player has immunity and is within a set range of this race the ultimate will fail. (this distance can be changed if needed)


1.0.6

Patched rare ultimate bug that resulted in server crash


1.0.7

Patched glitch that would result in crash if you died, changed to this race and then used scroll of respawn


1.0.8

Improved programing of weapon removal to reduce crashes.


1.0.9

Improved programing of spawn to prevent crashes.


1.1.0

Improved performance of hit based abilities


1.1.1

Restricted from using cloak, ring, claw and helm


1.1.2

Improved weapon removal code


1.1.3

Updated spwan code


1.1.4

Race now on RESTORED VERSION
Updated to best weapon removal code


1.1.5

Optimized some code
Removed code that removes weapons to use restrictions only


1.1.6

Added *.25 to the force mult values.


1.1.7

Removed *.25 force mult values.


1.1.8

Initial Release of recoded version
Converted AWP to Scout for use with this race
Custom model for AWP implemented
All dmg is the exact same as scout.
Player movement speed (for vag only) is exactly the same as scout.

[ZERO]

Known setting problem where effect from Scout lasts too long

[ZERO]

1.0.1

Updated effect length for Scout from 30 to 3 seconds.

[ZERO]

1.0.2

Prevented scouts from being dropped by ensuring that all weapons are removed.

[Masskid]

After i teleport instead of equipping my knife i get this fake scout, anyway you could fix this?

[ZERO]

That is becuase your scout is taken away due to the valve update there is no way to fix this as we can not force you to take out your knife. Unless your aware of some code that works on the OB that does this.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

i think you need to reduce the speed you travel through air.

same w/ on spiderman. increase air resistance or something

[ZERO]

They are exactly the same as they were before...

[acolyte_to_jippity]

They are exactly the same as they were before...

you fly alot farther now for some reason. like, an insanely larger distance.

[maynard]

they work fine. and exactly like they did before... just cause you can fly a further distance off the map on crack house doens't mean zero needs 2 fix anything...

[Masskid]

um the teleport is the same i think >.< but ok i guess i will have to manually switch to knife now :\

[ZERO]

1.0.3


Allowed per Team: 1

[willster]

I believe Vagabond's ultimate is causing the server to crash. The first time i used it, it crashed(losttemple2). The second time i tried it again with admin permission, it crashed(de_dust2).

[ZERO]

can anyone confirm this on the test server?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

can anyone confirm this on the test server?

no, cause we have a levelbank of 300, but the race is a 310 race...plus 8 for ult.

we shoul have at least the requirements for the most expensive race plus 50 (in this case, 360) in the levelbank.

[Blackmage]

I confirmed on that it DOESN'T happen on the test server, right after it was found on the main server.

Not impossible to get it without enough level bank, but, annoying as hell :)

[maynard]

willster was quite sure he crashed the server when using the ultimate. he PM'ed me and I told him 2 do it again in 3 seconds, low and behold 3 seconds later when he did it, the server crashed again. so I'm quite positive it's got something wrong with it. we can test it again later tonight. luckily no 1 else has vegabond or is close, so we don't have 2 worrie about ppl crashing the server constantly. ill test it again tonight with wilster, if it crashes again ill be prompting that no 1 uses it till you return from vaycay and take a look at it.

[ZERO]

So when does it crash, is it when you first teleport or after? If it crashes when u first press it do you move first or is it right when you press it. Does it happen if you have nothing except for a knife?

[ZERO]

As an attempted fix I have reprogrammed the way it removes the scout. I have also programed in a change that should force you to select the knife so that you do not need to manually select it.

[CYBER]

As an attempted fix I have reprogrammed the way it removes the scout. I have also programed in a change that should force you to select the knife so that you do not need to manually select it.

so is it safe to say that will can use his ultimate to test it out when the server isnt severely populated?

[ZERO]

yes :wtg:

[CYBER]

yes :wtg:

i am not sure when u updated ur "yes" but willster told me today in the morning (i.e wednesday morning east central time, that when he used his ultimate after ur "fix" it still crashed. i will however try to get ahold of willster at night and test out the ultimate again when the server is not populated, perhaps he tested it out before the fix was implemented.

[CYBER]

ok so willster tested it ./
server didnt crash at that time,
however, after he teleports, and is VISIBLE agian, he cannot use his knife anymore..
acutally instead of an equipped scout on his back, he has ANOTHER equipped knife???

also, as mikey puts it ; he poops scouts :P
every time he enters in his ultimate, he drops a scout and evreyone can pick it up and use it...

also, the server crashed as well, but NOT th efirst time, more like a bit later after he used his teleport a few times... idnt know if he triggered the crash or not..
willster? did u teleport when the server crashed? or did it crash on its own later?

[willster]

shortly after i used it on nuke the server crashed i believe during the team change. So no clue if its me or the server just crashed.

[taz1stP]

ult also make them shit scouts when they move.

[ZERO]

ok i updated it again now the knife thing should be gone and I think it should work correctly now due to the order the code runs in.

[ZERO]

Just updated the programing with the knife and it should work correctly now.

[CYBER]

Just updated the programing with the knife and it should work correctly now.

will test it with willster as soon as possible
btw zero did u reset my levelbank on wcs test server? so i can test this without will's help?

[ZERO]

r you saying that is crashes on both the test and live server. I thought the error only occurred on the live server.

[ZERO]

also just set values to 999 and cleared the levels. you should now have enough in the level bank.

[CYBER]

r you saying that is crashes on both the test and live server. I thought the error only occurred on the live server.

i havent tested it on the test server. i didnt know it ONLY crashed on live one:)

but i am testing the others so i needed the extra levels...

[maynard]

vegabond is working fine on the test server. it's not dropping a scout when it teleports and the teleport is not crashing or cause problems. no glitches found so far.

[CYBER]

vegabond is working fine on the test server. it's not dropping a scout when it teleports and the teleport is not crashing or cause problems. no glitches found so far.

i did notice 1 thing on the test server tho... i was running and tryed using my ultimate a few times , around like 5 times in a row with barely 1-2 secs between each button press...
i know u should use it to teleport and then u get stuck with knife until u press it again,
HOWEVER, after that "few times" , even if i toggled my ultimate back to scout mode, i couldnt even move... i would be stuck on the floor, while i hear my own running footsteps in background, even when not pressing WASD keys, until i toggle back to knife mode,.... and after a few other spams of the ultimate i finally managed to unglitch myself...
what happened exactly?

[ZERO]

The ultimate is configured in such a way that if the button is simply spammed it will glitch the user. This makes it so that the ultimate requires the user to use it carefully and not simply spamming the button. Otherwise they will glitch out and get killed. This is designed by intent just like the old one which glitched out in the exact same way.

Oh does it switch to your knife automatically now?

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

i have been using it on the live server all night last night, hasnt crashed once. I think we are golden. if not i will let you know!

Yes it switch's to the knife auto when you tele.

p.s. the footsteps you hear yourself making are your own sound. I tested tonight with someone and no one else can hear those footsteps being made.

(this was all done on the live server)

[CYBER]

i have been using it on the live server all night last night, hasnt crashed once. I think we are golden. if not i will let you know!

Yes it switch's to the knife auto when you tele.

p.s. the footsteps you hear yourself making are your own sound. I tested tonight with someone and no one else can hear those footsteps being made.

(this was all done on the live server)

thats what i meant, its like ur footsteps got caught on an infinite loop on ur own sound.

side note zero, 1 thing about the vagabond is that u CAN see him when his immobile/ultimate mode , kinda...
u CAN see his name tag in game, and the gore mod makes it that if u spray randomly around and happen to hit the vagabond once, the vagabond will bleed, and u can spot him based on blood shed...
then again, thats probably a good thing considering how strong the race is, makes it better to avoid ppl just camping as VB waiting for a kill to come by...
was it intentional tho?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

you're suposed to be able to see him if you aim directly at him.

and the sound was always there, even before OB update

[ZERO]

the blood was also there he would put out blood if hit giving away the location for a split second from the gore mod.

[CYBER]

the blood was also there he would put out blood if hit giving away the location for a split second from the gore mod.

i am perfectly happy with just the way it is, i tihnk it was mikey that was pissed that i knew where to knife him :P heheheh

[willster]

Depends on how u use the ultimate for the footstep sound effect to occur. Most of the time if u aim down or tele land straight, u will not hear the footsteps. If you use the ultimate and you land somewhat into the ground while u are still running or stuck you will hear the footsteps. Also when you use ultimate with a defuse kit equipped or secondary, that piece of equipment you are carrying is not invisible so people can see you. I am not sure if thats the way its suppose to be, but just letting you know.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Depends on how u use the ultimate for the footstep sound effect to occur. Most of the time if u aim down or tele land straight, u will not hear the footsteps. If you use the ultimate and you land somewhat into the ground while u are still running or stuck you will hear the footsteps. Also when you use ultimate with a defuse kit equipped or secondary, that piece of equipment you are carrying is not invisible so people can see you. I am not sure if thats the way its suppose to be, but just letting you know.

it used to be invis, but only if you had it on when you ult.

i.e. if you ult. an are invis, but your teammate had the bomb/kit and die near you, if the kit/bomb fell into you, you' pick it up and it would be visible.

[frvwfr2]

It seems a bit crazy to me that this race can be invisible 90% of the time, and moving for most of that. It is nearly impossible to kill someone if they use it constantly to warp in and out of invis, and they will eventually get a knife or lucky scout shot and kill you. Just VERY annoying the few times I have faced it, and even 2 people fighting one using this is difficult.

The issue is that they are only frozen for like .5s, after which they activate it 2x quickly, and are again invisible and moving.

Suggestions

I think a longer delay AFTER becoming Visible again would make this less crazy.
After trying to become visible, if you were frozen for another .5s, but became visible at the beginning, would also bring this down.


I understand that either of these would hurt it in close combat, but really, it's a Sniper race. SHOULD it be strong in close combat? Or as strong as it is currently at least?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

It seems a bit crazy to me that this race can be invisible 90% of the time, and moving for most of that. It is nearly impossible to kill someone if they use it constantly to warp in and out of invis, and they will eventually get a knife or lucky scout shot and kill you. Just VERY annoying the few times I have faced it, and even 2 people fighting one using this is difficult.

The issue is that they are only frozen for like .5s, after which they activate it 2x quickly, and are again invisible and moving.

Suggestions

I think a longer delay AFTER becoming Visible again would make this less crazy.
After trying to become visible, if you were frozen for another .5s, but became visible at the beginning, would also bring this down.


I understand that either of these would hurt it in close combat, but really, it's a Sniper race. SHOULD it be strong in close combat? Or as strong as it is currently at least?

lol, welcome to vagabond.

you'll enjoy it when you get to it.

myself? i was more of a vagalion guy. ^_^ silent teleport

[CYBER]

doesnt he necklace prevent it from teleporting anywhere near u ?
if the person was invisible, and u walk by them while holding a necklace of immunity..does it reveal them? or does it only prevent the vaga from teleporting near u ?

also i noticed with many other races that if u spam ur ultimate, such as teleporting on human, the necklace doesnt always work...or so i was told..

also , to however is complaining about the vaga ultimate, i used the night elf roots on the vaga once, once its caught in the roots for a split sec, its 100% screwed! cant teleport out of it and it glitches u , make u teleport back and forth into the roots lol and where u are dead :)
plus i managed to KNIFE kill a vagabond with my flame pred at least 10 times so far, its all about predicting the other player's whereabouts. setting them on fire with spamming the LEFT knife is always easier than trying to stab them directly with right:P once on fire, they;re screwed lol

[Blackmage]

Necklace used to stop vag from teleporting when he was near you, yes. Now, it does nothing(both in playing experience and test server testing).

No, it never revealed them.

Yes, those always were and still are great ways of dealing with vags :)

[Wolfenstinger]

Necklace used to stop vag from teleporting when he was near you, yes. Now, it does nothing(both in playing experience and test server testing).

No, it never revealed them.

Yes, those always were and still are great ways of dealing with vags :)

True you can't see a vaga when they are invisible, but that's the naked eye. Check the radar and you'll see a dot when looking in their direction (usually). Though, it never tells you how high one is... or does it? :smirk:

[ZERO]

so you guys are saying the ultimate immunity is not being blocked. Is this just for the shopmenu item or for any race that is supposed to block it.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

so you guys are saying the ultimate immunity is not being blocked. Is this just for the shopmenu item or for any race that is supposed to block it.

hmmm, is the code any different from the wcs version? judgeing by the other differencs we've seen between the two, the efault necklace might be a sort of "chance" item, or might have an internal cooldown

[Blackmage]

Spent 2 rounds teleporting around, into and out from someone with a necklace, never got blocked once. Spent a minute doing the same with a Warden. No luck there either.

[CYBER]

Spent 2 rounds teleporting around, into and out from someone with a necklace, never got blocked once. Spent a minute doing the same with a Warden. No luck there either.

i second that...seems like the necklace and warden effects are "chance" not fool proof... that is , if they are working

[Blackmage]

I've never been hit with an ultimate with necklace, some ultimates just ignore it now. This is one of those.

Warden, on the other hand, has been mentioned in it's thread, and IS random chance.

[CYBER]

I've never been hit with an ultimate with necklace, some ultimates just ignore it now. This is one of those.

Warden, on the other hand, has been mentioned in it's thread, and IS random chance.

sry yeah, thats what i meant, u CANT teleport for example near a person with ultimate when u;re on human.but vagabond ignores it , also molecule's shield always stays on...shouldnt u be able to inflict damage to the shield holder when having necklace?

also, if warden is a chance...cant ppl just spam their ultimate until it activates??? (bind it to mouse wheel and its almost a garanteed ultimate activation)
i think in previous settings before the updated, the warded used to spawn WITH a necklace? so that the "chance" is affected on spawn, not at the ultimate activation? (if u were lucky to get a neckless at spawn, ppl cant spm their ultimate anymore.)

[acolyte_to_jippity]

sry yeah, thats what i meant, u CANT teleport for example near a person with ultimate when u;re on human.but vagabond ignores it , also molecule's shield always stays on...shouldnt u be able to inflict damage to the shield holder when having necklace?

also, if warden is a chance...cant ppl just spam their ultimate until it activates??? (bind it to mouse wheel and its almost a garanteed ultimate activation)
i think in previous settings before the updated, the warded used to spawn WITH a necklace? so that the "chance" is affected on spawn, not at the ultimate activation? (if u were lucky to get a neckless at spawn, ppl cant spm their ultimate anymore.)

1) vagabond can't teleport near someone w/ necklace. we used to "hold" them in place before OB update. this is something zero will need to fix

2) molecule's shield can't be activated near someone w/ necklace. HOWEVER, if it is activated then someone w/ a necklace attacks them, the shield does not fail. necklace does not cause shit to fail, it simply prevents their activation. the only exception is crypt lord, as it won't hit someone w/ a necklace (that i know of)

3) you are correct. because of limitatons on the original wcs mod, warden's immunity skill was handles by giving them a chance to spawn w/ a necklace. when zero gets a chance, i'm sure he'll re-implement that system, as it was far better than what we have now.

[CYBER]

1) vagabond can't teleport near someone w/ necklace. we used to "hold" them in place before OB update. this is something zero will need to fix

2) molecule's shield can't be activated near someone w/ necklace. HOWEVER, if it is activated then someone w/ a necklace attacks them, the shield does not fail. necklace does not cause shit to fail, it simply prevents their activation. the only exception is crypt lord, as it won't hit someone w/ a necklace (that i know of)

3) you are correct. because of limitatons on the original wcs mod, warden's immunity skill was handles by giving them a chance to spawn w/ a necklace. when zero gets a chance, i'm sure he'll re-implement that system, as it was far better than what we have now.

1- well yeah , that wasnt happening as i saw it in my own eyes that ninja was teleporting close enough to knife someone holding necklace.

2-yes crypt lord's effect wont activate on u if u have a necklace, even if last one on team (tried it )
it might be my eyes deceiving me, but i distinctively remember when i was a warden, and a maxed out enemy shadow hunter activated the invicibility, in less than 1 second after he activated the ultimate, i saw his color go from normal, to yellow, and then back to normal in less than 1 second because i practically hugged him with my warden and point blank HS him to the head.
did my warden deactivate his shield? or did his shield try to activate by turning yellow then failed bcos i was near? (altho i was 2 doorway-width away from him when he activated, and i thought i was gonna die before i got that lucky HS fast...) . thats why i asked about the molecule's shield.someone explain please?

3- well thats out of our reach for now...gotta hand it for zero, he has a lot on his plate and shit takes time... we do appreciate the effort :)

[ZERO]

1.0.5


Patched to be effected by ultimate immunity, if a player has immunity and is within a set range of this race the ultimate will fail. (this distance can be changed if needed)

[CYBER]

1.0.5


Patched to be effected by ultimate immunity, if a player has immunity and is within a set range of this race the ultimate will fail. (this distance can be changed if needed)


whats the current closest distance from which vagabond can teleport to near a person with immunity.?

[ZERO]

It is based of where the race is not where it is going. The range should be 30ft just like the human. So you can teleport to a player that has immunity but you can not unfreeze unless your 30ft away. This is basically how it worked before and was supposed to work to start with.

[Wolfenstinger]

It is based of where the race is not where it is going. The range should be 30ft just like the human. So you can teleport to a player that has immunity but you can not unfreeze unless your 30ft away. This is basically how it worked before and was supposed to work to start with.

So "Tele-Killing" (user teleports at target and kills) still works as intended? :smirk:

[ZERO]

I assume you saying teleport to a player with a knife and kill them then yes.

[ZERO]

1.0.6


Patched rare ultimate bug that resulted in server crash

[CYBER]

meh.. am not liking the new necklace against this race..
it should activate when they look at u , not a billion miles away... basically if u happened to be 60 ft near them, even if they are camping hostages on the INSIDE, the necklace doesnt even let me move... not even switch back to regular mode..a.nd they dnt even know what they're doing ....

[Blackmage]

Welcome to the counter to this race. If you're getting caught a lot, you just need to figure out a new plan. Some people could do well with vags against Necklaces *cough*Wolf*cough* so it's not impossible.

[Wolfenstinger]

Some people could do well with vags against Necklaces *cough*Wolf*cough* so it's not impossible.

Seen me against a vag without a necklace? :smirk:

[acolyte_to_jippity]

meh.. am not liking the new necklace against this race..
it should activate when they look at u , not a billion miles away... basically if u happened to be 60 ft near them, even if they are camping hostages on the INSIDE, the necklace doesnt even let me move... not even switch back to regular mode..a.nd they dnt even know what they're doing ....

the entire point of necklace is that you CANNOT ACTIVATE your ultimate if someone on opposite team is wearing one near you. that includes comeing out of invis. it was never an on-sight thing. it was always radial

[maynard]

cyber, you complain way 2 much.

[CYBER]

cyber, you complain way 2 much.

am just a sore loser <3 hehehehe

yeah i know how this works, i managed to figure it out yesterday, i just always thought it was an on sight thing , my bad:P

and i dnt really mind the necklaces, am just pissed that other ppl leveled their vags when they were OP, and now am stuck dealing with necklace-shopaholics *cough*freestyla and xerenix* cough*

but hey, i'll figure it out,
wolf? can u send me a private msg on forums?? need to ask u a question :P

[Blackmage]

Seen me against a vag without a necklace? :smirk:

As seldom as often, thank you very much :)

[ZERO]

1.0.7

Patched glitch that would result in crash if you died, changed to this race and then used scroll of respawn

[Blackmage]

When trying to switch from Vagabond to panorama, it says that we've reached the team max. Happens on the (empty) Test server too.

[ZERO]

Does it only occur when switching from that race to the other one?

[Blackmage]

Only from Vaga to Panorama. Also, checked Molucule, and no blocks there.

[ZERO]

1.0.8

Improved programing of weapon removal to reduce crashes.

[ZERO]

1.0.9

Improved programing of spawn to prevent crashes.

[CYBER]

1.0.9

Improved programing of spawn to prevent crashes.



when in vaga, set my race to night elf for nxt turn, died in ultimate,, came back for the next 2 turns as a night elf but stuck a little above ground with or without a gun (happened to me many times, different gun status), and cant move or shoot.....

had to go to vaga again, use my ultimate to de-freeze myself and then later switch race without dying while invisible...
bug?

[ZERO]

I have updated a small possible patch.

[StarsMine]

Alright, when invisible, and someone comes in and kicks you off of vag (at this point in time it was maynard) You remain invisible, but you are able to move.

So I was an invisible no class (probably could have chosen one but I didnt) runing around with a knife

[CYBER]

Alright, when invisible, and someone comes in and kicks you off of vag (at this point in time it was maynard) You remain invisible, but you are able to move.

So I was an invisible no class (probably could have chosen one but I didnt) runing around with a knife

sounds fun lol

[StarsMine]

cyber has now seen the glory of the spherical square, and promply used it to kill me as he fell out of the sky :D

[CYBER]

oh fuck off.. i was in vaga in mid air, blade goes to my team, with a vaga LOWER than mine, and it kicks me off (its ALWAYS ME ) and i fell out of the sky, losing half my hp, but prompty knifing stars in the back lol...
but shit is rediculous!
shouldnt be that player with most levels have it? or who played it longest currently?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

it's being worked on on the war3 boards. yes, it should be the first-come first-served

[maynard]

until zero finds a way 2 fix this issue admins should be enforcing it as who ever got on it first gets 2 keep using it. when whoever is using it switched off then someone else can jump on it.

till the issue if fixed people should not be logging off of WCS, while on a class that is limited 1 per team.

[CYBER]

will do :)
and if they fail to comply?
switch them to spec? (does it count for the limit ?) or kick them temporary so the guy resumes his race?

[Tickle Me Emo]

will do :)
and if they fail to comply?
switch them to spec? (does it count for the limit ?) or kick them temporary so the guy resumes his race?

The problem with the limiter is such that those actions will do no good if they really don't want to comply. If you switch them to spec, they can just re-join and it will give it to them (that's the whole problem), same with kicking. So I would guess you'd be better off slaying them or setting them on fire (lol flaming vagabond) if a warning isn't sufficient. Of course, if they're really stubborn, there's always the 5 minute break!

[maynard]

The problem with the limiter is such that those actions will do no good if they really don't want to comply. If you switch them to spec, they can just re-join and it will give it to them (that's the whole problem), same with kicking. So I would guess you'd be better off slaying them or setting them on fire (lol flaming vagabond) if a warning isn't sufficient. Of course, if they're really stubborn, there's always the 5 minute break!

if someone refuses 2 change and get off vegabond when they first log on (if someone else was already on it) then they will be asked 2 change, if they refuse, they will be kicked from the server, if they rejoin and refuse 2 change again then they will be issued a temp ban.

[CYBER]

awesome, my ban hammer's been itching after i got kicked off of vagabond the last 8 maps i played -.- :D

[StarsMine]

Is there a way to make it so that the Flashlight cant be used to spot you out when you are invisible?

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Is there a way to make it so that the Flashlight cant be used to spot you out when you are invisible?

what? turn your flashlight off if it's getting you caught

[StarsMine]

no if they have there flash light on and have it near you, your shadow gets shown.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

no if they have there flash light on and have it near you, your shadow gets shown.

huh!

TO5wryDdEI0

[ZERO]

Yea you could just make them play on computers that can not render shadows or release a valve update that removes light. (which may happen anyways)

[ZERO]

1.1.0

Improved performance of hit based abilities

[Sword of Gideon]

I would like to see a 90% invisible vagabond instead of a 100% invisible one.

A good vagabond can go 20-0 or 44-4 fairly easily. It is undoubtably the most powerful race and therefore sticks out as better than the others.
There are defenses, but a smart vagabond quickly realizes that buying a necklace negates most of those.
It seems to be a game-balance issue. Reducing the the total invisibility would go a long way to making this a more balanced race.

[SCRIBBLE]

It is undoubtably the most powerful race and therefore sticks out as better than the others.
...
It seems to be a game-balance issue. Reducing the the total invisibility would go a long way to making this a more balanced race.

It is a powerful race but ZERO has not completed the programming of the other races. The server will not be balanced until then. Vagabond is not the most powerful race (it's not even close), EVA takes that title. Wait this issue out because with the release of other races like Athena, vagabond will no longer be an issue. Apparently Zero has quite a large to do list so patience is key as there are a lot of important changes happening within the community. :wtg: I also can attest that no one in the top 50 has an issue countering vagabonds. It's simply a matter of learning how to counter it and paying attention.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

scribble[nuke];109179']It is a powerful race but ZERO has not completed the programming of the other races. The server will not be balanced until then. Vagabond is not the most powerful race (it's not even close), EVA takes that title. Wait this issue out because with the release of other races like Athena, vagabond will no longer be an issue. Apparently Zero has quite a large to do list so patience is key as there are a lot of important changes happening within the community. :wtg: I also can attest that no one in the top 50 has an issue countering vagabonds. It's simply a matter of learning how to counter it and paying attention.

athena will need the buff of a lifetime to come close to vaga or spidey now. they are so hilariously op, even past the pre-ob levels.

[ZERO]

1.1.1


Restricted from using cloak, ring, claw and helm

[Sword of Gideon]

scribble[nuke];109179']It is a powerful race but ZERO has not completed the programming of the other races. The server will not be balanced until then. Vagabond is not the most powerful race (it's not even close), EVA takes that title. Wait this issue out because with the release of other races like Athena, vagabond will no longer be an issue. Apparently Zero has quite a large to do list so patience is key as there are a lot of important changes happening within the community. :wtg: I also can attest that no one in the top 50 has an issue countering vagabonds. It's simply a matter of learning how to counter it and paying attention.




EVA isn't a race in our Warcraft server. Maybe it was before, or maybe you saw it somewhere else.
I've played Athena before, it's nothing near the vagabond.
I do realize that Zero is our coder and that he has been coding. But currently the Vagabond isn't just a game-changer race, it's the game-controlling race.
I don't buy that the top 50 people have no issues countering vagabonds.

Anyway, this is what we are facing in the server:
3897

From purely a business standpoint, you clearly want players playing in your server. This is how people become accostomed to the game, and some fall in love with it, and some go on to become paying admins. The more people that are playing, the better the chances for that type of outcome. So when you have a powerful vagabond like my example demo shows, then people leave. No race needs to be nerfed more than this one. It's a server-killer.

[maynard]

But currently the Vagabond isn't just a game-changer race, it's the game-controlling race.

lol.. hardly.... vega's are not hard 2 kill... and athena isn't supposed 2 be like vegabond, it's a counter for it.


also eva is the highest highest lvl race you can get on our server.

[Sword of Gideon]

Hmm... I don't see Eva as any race. The only one I don't have is Vagabond. I think I'm around Level 300.

If you watch the demo, if ANYONE were to watch the demo, it's clear that it is too powerful. And there's no question that players were leaving. In any business, people leaving is the last thing you want. I'll even go so far as to say that okay Vagabond isn't hard for *you*, but for the vast majority of players it's nearly impossible to deal with a vagabond in the hands of a good player.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Hmm... I don't see Eva as any race. The only one I don't have is Vagabond. I think I'm around Level 300.

If you watch the demo, if ANYONE were to watch the demo, it's clear that it is too powerful. And there's no question that players were leaving. In any business, people leaving is the last thing you want. I'll even go so far as to say that okay Vagabond isn't hard for *you*, but for the vast majority of players it's nearly impossible to deal with a vagabond in the hands of a good player.


the server is also not finished. all the balance changes you keep bringing up will be addressed once the server is back to an identical (or at least as close as zero can get it) to the pre-ob state. the only reason he adjusted scroll price was because you bitched so much it started to get on his nerves. remember: our wcs server is not finished, and the balance is going to be the final thing worked on, once all the races are out.

[maynard]

dude we've told you like a million times the server is not finished... we still have like 15 races that haven't been released yet...

and just cause you got 1 or 2 people who pwwn with vega don't mean all do, and they don't. there's 1 or 2 people that pwwn with literally any race. also once you play on the server for a bit you will learn 2 track vega's which is actually quite easy and if you have good reaction speeds, they are actually not hard 2 take out.

[Wolfenstinger]

If you watch the demo, if ANYONE were to watch the demo, it's clear that it is too powerful. And there's no question that players were leaving.

I actually took the time to watch a random portion of the demo around 25k tick mark. Ronnie goes 9 - 0. Issue here at 25k tick mark, well... there was many. The main one was that nobody defended the defuser as he defused. By defending, i mean spraying the loving hell outta him since Ronnie decided to try knifing (terribly by the way).

Vaga's aren't OP at all. Though, this is coming from the guy that played the hell outta Vagalion before and after maxing all races... :banghead:
We just have to work with what we have at the moment. Once Vagalion comes out - I do intend to play it for a long long while, as long as the rest of my races are maxed before it comes out :smirk:

[Spasm]

ZERO, why in the fuck did you nerf vaga, jesus christ. Are you really going to let 1 or 2 people whining make you nerf the shit out of it. The scroll cost is a direct nerf to vaga, okay w/e, but the item restrictions is just stupid. We never had any problems on the old server, now all of the sudden, cuz a few people that suck at wcs can't kill someone you nerf the race. /end rant

P.S. Stop catering to sword of gideon, this guy has been around how long??? What level is he... 300??? He's too inexperienced to be dictating how this server runs, and judging from his complaining, is where these changes are coming from.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

P.S. Stop catering to sword of gideon, this guy has been around how long??? What level is he... 300??? He's too inexperienced to be dictating how this server runs, and judging from his complaining, is where these changes are coming from.

this. don't fuck with the balance until the server is back to being identical to pre-ob. then tweak it.

[ZERO]

The removal of some items from this race was something that was coming regardless. As for the respawn, I am likely going to lower the cost a bit in a few days.

[maynard]

5-6 k would be a more legit price. this way it's expensive, but not 2 the point where the item is pointless. respawn scroll has always been a part of WCS, as it did need a price bump, I don't think we should bump it 2 the point of being an item no 1 will ever purchase.

[Tickle Me Emo]

5-6 k would be a more legit price. this way it's expensive, but not 2 the point where the item is pointless. respawn scroll has always been a part of WCS, as it did need a price bump, I don't think we should bump it 2 the point of being an item no 1 will ever purchase.

I agree, 3k was too little for such a (potentially) powerful item, but 9k is serious overcompensation.

As for item removal... sure, whatever, I never used those items on vaga anyways. :icon_mrgreen:

[Spasm]

The removal of some items from this race was something that was coming regardless. As for the respawn, I am likely going to lower the cost a bit in a few days.

Why? I am really curious. Many other races could use this restriction if your worried about it being overpowered. For example: Human, Molecule, Spider-Man, I'd argue that Raiden and Crypt Lord could be on that list as well. In fact, the vaga is usually brought down by someone trapping them with a necklace, not really getting shot. At least a good vaga.

On a different note, I'd argue that the combination of health, helm and lace makes any race almost unkillable and that helm should be removed or counted as a damage reduction. not as full blown head shot immunity.

The helm helps races with more hp then any of the others. Succubus with health and max skulls, sits at 250 hp after ultimate is used, add that up with a helm and you have a race that has 250hp and complete immunity to headshots. Your looking at several, SEVERAL shots to take out this person.

[SCRIBBLE]

Please leave VAGA alone, especially until we get the server back to pre-ob.

Let the noobs learn how to play the game like the rest of us. Gideon, use your brain instead of trying to change the game and make it easier for yourself.

edit: I agree with spasm about the helm and what blade said below.

[BladeTwinSwords]

I agree with Spasm about Vagabond. I have never really had a hard time with Vaga. Though Scrolls should be 6K, Vaga shouldn't be restricted from getting them because they would spend more on necklaces than scrolls.

The helmet needs to go, period. It didn't exist before the update. There was however a Helm of Protection which reduced headshots to bodyshots at the same price.

[ZERO]

As far as the item restrictions go here was the reasons for each:
cloak: it already has an invisibility ability
ring: enables users to just sit somewhere invisible while the regen all there health.
claw: pointless anyways as it already has a 1 hit kill passive ability.
helm: perhaps I should just up the price of this one by $1000 the restriction was to increase the chance of getting a random kill when spraying.

[Steamer]

I've said all that about the helm long ago...

If it could be coded the negate the headshot only twice then not work it would be pretty balanced. Straight to body damage would probably be easier. I don't like the item at all and think they should just be gone.

If the person playing the vaga puts themselves in a situation to be sprayed upon.... well.. that's their fault.

The other items restricted... meh

I like the old health rings... they had the green line tracer when it healed so people wouldn't do that.

[maynard]

the helm really should go, we never had it before the major update, and if we're gonna keep it then it should be like 8k to buy it. 100% guarantee of no headshots? that's a pretty serious item and should have a pretty serious price. but I think we should just get rid of it.

[Akoiah]

gayest class everrrr

[acolyte_to_jippity]

gayest class everrrr

thank you for your opinions. they'll be filed away with pretty much everything gideon has ever said.

:wtg:

[Irtechie]

Consider:
Invisibility/Superdash needs a cooldown.
Most players aren't "Gods" with this class, but others really are. I see quite a lot of 30-2's with this race.

An well played invisible vagabond pretty much assures that a ct team on an open map cannot defuse. I know about the flashlights and the tracking. It really is hard though to track them above the physics of the map 50 feet in the air invisible with a flashlight. Make all invis classes completely visible on plant or defuse could work too.

Not a whine, an observation.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Consider:
Invisibility/Superdash needs a cooldown.
Most players aren't "Gods" with this class, but others really are. I see quite a lot of 30-2's with this race.

An well played invisible vagabond pretty much assures that a ct team on an open map cannot defuse. I know about the flashlights and the tracking. It really is hard though to track them above the physics of the map 50 feet in the air invisible with a flashlight. Make all invis classes completely visible on plant or defuse could work too.

Not a whine, an observation.

there's nothing wrong w/ vagabond. at all. unlike spiderman.

there will always be players who are good with one race, just as there are others who will be bad. only races that are 100% completely and blatantly OP need to be fixed. again, like spiderman.


vagabond is almost identical to how it was on the old server. that's all that matters

[maynard]

vagabond is almost identical to how it was on the old server. that's all that matters

+1:wtg:

[Chikun]

I get boners from killing vagabonds and spidermen.

[Blackmage]

I just get a lot of XP :)

[azurestone]

I signed up on the forums, just to post this...

Vegabond needs its own set of rules, and some nerfing beyond any other race I have seen.

For most maps, the Vegabond player is /outside/ of the gameplay area, sniping down everyone, laughing their asses off at how invul they are, sure, it takes a bit to get too, but when a level 50 Vega joins a nearly empty server [such as the case this morning, around 5 AM EST], and just continues to rape the other team of /3/ people.

The suggested rule would be to stay the hell in the gameplay zone, and not snipe from places one couldn't get too without say...may undead levitation, or teleportation, IE not through invisible walls, and the like. As a lot of the time, those walls, that are up, can not be shot through on the side with a texture, but on the invisible side, bullets go right to them. Also, don't be a duche when the server is nearly empty! it makes it nowhere near fun, or even "Meh, I'll play"-able.

Its not hard to play such race, and still be "Fair" to the rest of the people playing, and not make the race so overpowered.

:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:chillpill:

[emTr0]

I signed up on the forums, just to post this...

Vegabond needs its own set of rules, and some nerfing beyond any other race I have seen.

For most maps, the Vegabond player is /outside/ of the gameplay area, sniping down everyone, laughing their asses off at how invul they are, sure, it takes a bit to get too, but when a level 50 Vega joins a nearly empty server [such as the case this morning, around 5 AM EST], and just continues to rape the other team of /3/ people.

The suggested rule would be to stay the hell in the gameplay zone, and not snipe from places one couldn't get too without say...may undead levitation, or teleportation, IE not through invisible walls, and the like. As a lot of the time, those walls, that are up, can not be shot through on the side with a texture, but on the invisible side, bullets go right to them. Also, don't be a duche when the server is nearly empty! it makes it nowhere near fun, or even "Meh, I'll play"-able.

Its not hard to play such race, and still be "Fair" to the rest of the people playing, and not make the race so overpowered.

:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:chillpill:

I'm sure sniping through a wall like you said is considered some form of skywalking, in which case it's against the rules since they can't be seen. If you can see them, it's not against the rules and perfectly legal for them to do. I don't like Vaga as much as the next guy but there are plenty of races that give you an equal advantage like Athena, Strider, even Humans. You just have to know how to use them.

[Blackmage]

He could easily be nerfed and not need those rules. Just remove his ability to buy a lace.

However, Strider, Human, Beast, Archmage all can get to the same places as vaga. The next race we release will be able to as well. Just remember, most maps that are not overly open, you have at least one path you can take that gets you to the objectives without making yourself sniper (Read: not JUST vaga) bait.

[B1ackOut]

if he didn't have a lace i feel it would be almost too easy to kill it. As long as they are not shooting you from a place where they can see through the walls or where you cant shoot them it is very possible to kill or stop the vagabond.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

if he didn't have a lace i feel it would be almost too easy to kill it. As long as they are not shooting you from a place where they can see through the walls or where you cant shoot them it is very possible to kill or stop the vagabond.


this. vaga does NOT need any nerfs. if they are killing you from places you cannot shoot them (physically cannot. this doesn't mean "he shot me before i could shoot him" or "he shot me before i knew where he was") that is against the rules. HOWEVER they cannot often reach such spots. ever. the only ones that can sometimes do that are teleport races (human, beast, and most of all hellhunter)

they have the ability to cross invisible boundaries in the sky/wherever, and it is possible for them to reach such untouchable places. BUT they are not allowed to attack from such places.

[Blackmage]

Having no lace would require the vagas to adapt to the game, rather than requiring the whole game to adapt to them. It would also remove the "hunt the vaga" minigame that often happens in the server. They wouldn't be able to be a jack of all trades, they would have to be, shock and amazement, snipers. You know, not in range of most ultimates Would they be easier to kill? Well, the bad ones would, yeah, and the ones who don't want to fill their rolls, just like ANY race. Do they need this nerf? Nope.

What we need is A: People who pay attention when someone else calls stuck. B: people learning when they ARE stuck, not just calling it because they think they are stuck. C: People who can use the radar, and the radar still works perfectly fine for THIS need. D: Stop voting for our overly open maps(Rats style, Compound, Port) then complaining about OP-Vaga. E: Stop being overly aggressive then complaining that they caught you. If they have an objective to do, go there, THEY WILL COME TO YOU. F: If you have a choice of sniper friendly path and covered path, choose the covered path, *cough* WESTWOOD B IS NOT A GOOD CHOICE WHEN THEY HAVE A VAGA AND YOU DON'T! Taking the roofs is a worse choice. *cough*. G: Stop letting idiots who don't understand the above points play on the servers.

I really wish I could enforce point G.

[maynard]

3. Sky walking is permitted provided you’re in a spot that the opposing team can shoot back at. Going under the map, or to any place that allows you to see the enemy, but grants them 0 vision of you is not permitted unless you're passing through the area to get some where else.


........

[Chikun]

What we need is A: People who pay attention when someone else calls stuck. B: people learning when they ARE stuck, not just calling it because they think they are stuck. C: People who can use the radar, and the radar still works perfectly fine for THIS need. D: Stop voting for our overly open maps(Rats style, Compound, Port) then complaining about OP-Vaga. E: Stop being overly aggressive then complaining that they caught you. If they have an objective to do, go there, THEY WILL COME TO YOU. F: If you have a choice of sniper friendly path and covered path, choose the covered path, *cough* WESTWOOD B IS NOT A GOOD CHOICE WHEN THEY HAVE A VAGA AND YOU DON'T! Taking the roofs is a worse choice. *cough*. G: Stop letting idiots who don't understand the above points play on the servers.

Beat me to it. However, I don't agree with your suggestion of removing the option to buy a necklace.

[Blackmage]

Your not agreeing with something I don't agree with either :P To quote myself in the selfsame post: "Do they need this nerf? Nope."

Just saying, if they need a nerf, this is the one that would do the most good with the least work. We don't need to change rules, or modify abilities, all we need to do is rid it of the reason it's so powerful. I've put some thought into it and like dealing with theory over reality. Unless you have some other option to nerf it, should we ever need to nerf it.

[Steamer]

Races can be set to require a certain number of players on your team. :wtg:

[Rosie]

Races can be set to require a certain number of players on your team. :wtg:

That seems like it might not be that bad. I was on lastnight, in a 4 vs 3 with a maxed Vaga. It was a nightmare. Every round lasted almost the full time. But people will always complain about the Vaga. Someone in game mentioned a HP reduction to 75 the other night and it recieved alot of praise in the server.

[emTr0]

They wouldn't be able to be a jack of all trades

I miss that race :(.

[maynard]

lol... forgot how easy vegas are 2 kill, last night was a good reminder.

[ZERO]

1.1.2


Improved weapon removal code

[ZERO]

1.1.3


Updated spwan code

[ZERO]

1.1.4


Race now on RESTORED VERSION
Updated to best weapon removal code

[CYBER]

1.1.4

Race now on RESTORED VERSION
Updated to best weapon removal code

dang, the new vagabonds need to wait until their knife is fully out before being able to knife :(
i guess that was how it was meant to be right? god i miss being able to glitch knife ppl like a ninja

[ZERO]

1.1.5


Optimized some code
Removed code that removes weapons to use restrictions only

[blackmail242]

Could you make it so that the vagabond keeps the knife out after teleporting if thats how they went in? :P

[ronnie]

If you're running around with vagabond and switch to knife with scout on your back then teleport, when you're invisible your scout shows on your back. Verified with other players.

[blackmail242]

If you're running around with vagabond and switch to knife with scout on your back then teleport, when you're invisible your scout shows on your back. Verified with other players.Verified: only way to make it invisible is to switch to it or tele with it in hand

[ZERO]

I will correct that tomorrow but more importantly I want to know about the left hand issues if any after the most recent changes.

[brett friggin favre]

I will correct that tomorrow but more importantly I want to know about the left hand issues if any after the most recent changes.

i'll keep an eye out. i have a gap in classes tomorrow during my lag spiky time, so if client-side lag has anything to do with it, that should be a good time to see it.

edit: hypernt has been playing vaga and says he's gotten a left hand glitch

[ZERO]

I have now attempted to remove the scout using what should be a safe method that forces knife selection. I also use a better check to ensure that I am removing the correct thing.

Please note that for unknown reasons your knife will appear invisible as a result of this when you are invisible. You will however get to use it right away again which is what you all wanted anyways.

Please test this version and report if you get the left hand glitch.

[brett friggin favre]

haven't gotten a left hand glitch but something weird did happen last night. i was getting some lag spikes so that might be why, but whenever i'd go into invis, i'd have no weapon. i could equip my knife but had to do it manually. only happened for 1 round though...

[acolyte_to_jippity]

haven't gotten a left hand glitch but something weird did happen last night. i was getting some lag spikes so that might be why, but whenever i'd go into invis, i'd have no weapon. i could equip my knife but had to do it manually. only happened for 1 round though...

you sure the knife wasn't just invis? zero said that you won't be able to se your knife when you're frozen invis any more, but that it's still there

[CYBER]

I got the left hand glitch yesterday in vagabond. I cant remember for the life of me what map it was. I think it was either dolls or crackhouse. I was expectig the server to crash but it didnt. HOWEVER, yeaterday eceryone was having a warnin screen ever 45 mins or so, its the warning screen of when u get disconnected to the server along with a countdown to quit the server at the top right? I thought it was just me, but this temp disconnecting lag was happeneing to everyone. I recall it happened on dust2 this morning right after the server crashed, but before dust1

[brett friggin favre]

you sure the knife wasn't just invis? zero said that you won't be able to se your knife when you're frozen invis any more, but that it's still there

yeah i had the 5 white dots crosshair, nothing happened when i tried to knife, but if i switched to my knife it was fine.

[ZERO]

Last night I was copying files that caused the lag you are talking about.

[brett friggin favre]

Last night I was copying files that caused the lag you are talking about.

makes sense. i'll post again if i see it happen but i feel like it was just caused by the lag.

[ZERO]

Yea what is interesting is that the lag is not a bandwith issue it is that I am actually trying to dl the files faster than the HDD can go and this causes the server to lag. This also thus means that for general performance we could improve if I upgraded the servers HDD. However a SSD would cost hundreds of dollars a month... I could get a 10k drive for a decent price though. Dam I just with that SSD was lower cost and I would buy in a heart beat.

[brett friggin favre]

the player "what" just reported a left hand glitch on vaga. i'll pull the demo after map change if it helps

edit: twice. first one was at tick 36.5k

[CYBER]

so about that side-arm gun you get stuck on ur side as a vagabond, making u unbelievably easy to spot?...
is it a glitch? if so, i think it should go (you can drop it , but sometimes it gets picked up again...), if intentional, well i dnt see the point of it ... well, other than dumbing down the race for others?:P


also, everyone wants to toy with the vagabond to suit their needs, but i say its gd as is ... -.- ... (not that my opinion matters rly).
the only thing i personally wouldnt MIND, but dont give a fuck if requested, its the ability to use +ability to drop a defuse kit and bomb if needed, but other than that, the race is fine ppl , lets move along to other races ppl? we keep running in circles when it comes to spidey and vagabond, instead of letting zero have the free time to worry about the other races and whatnot...:)

[ZERO]

Do not worry my focus right now is to try to get these bugs patched once and for all not implement new features. :wtg:

[ZERO]

Ok I have now made it so the weapon removal occurs on roud start as well. This should make the left hand glitch on this race VERY difficult to occur. To confirm please verify that the left hand glitch occurs slightly less often now.

Also this prevents the intentianal glitch of the sidearm not being removed and sometimes thus giving away this races location.

[XX0wnsXY]

Ok I have now made it so the weapon removal occurs on roud start as well. This should make the left hand glitch on this race VERY difficult to occur. To confirm please verify that the left hand glitch occurs slightly less often now.

Also this prevents the intentianal glitch of the sidearm not being removed and sometimes thus giving away this races location.

During the scrim i would get the left hand glitch when respawned quite often. That was the test server though...not sure if that matters

[maynard]

During the scrim i would get the left hand glitch when respawned quite often. That was the test server though...not sure if that matters

the scrim server and test server are diff servers.

[XX0wnsXY]

the scrim server and test server are diff servers.

Yeah my bad...meant scrim server....WHATEVS! Lol

[ZERO]

All the fines are the same at the time of the scrim. You should get that glitch if you respawn b/c it is another race that replaced your weapon and that other race still has the bad code. The fact that the glitch occurs only when the other race is preforming that action proves that there is a difference between the code and that this difference causes one method to result in the left hand glitch most of the time and the other method to almost never result in the glitch.

I will be rolling out the new code to all the races prior to vag and then to the races after as I update them to the correct versions.

[CYBER]

just to help u out. most of the time, almost 90% chance of having a left hand glitch when a vagabond is respawned by a protostar.
and actually, even other than vaga, i have seen this happen on beast as well where i would lose my gun when respawned by proto...

[What]

I have noticed recently that the bomb will now sometimes appear invisible with that vaga(at least invisible in my hands anyways) with only the numbers appearing when you are planting it. It doesn't seem to happen all the time and usually only after I teleport a few times, but once it goes invisible it does not always stay invisible. I know this was something yall were working on and was wondering if anyone else has seen this occur.

[brett friggin favre]

today i got the left hand glitch something like 5 times in a row after teleports, then the server crashed. can provide the sourcetv demo if needed.

[ZERO]

Was there heavy lag before this occurred? We know that heavy lag client side or server side dramatically increases the chance of occurrence. Btw there is no way to stop the glitch without reprogramming the actual game. All we can do is code the races in such a way as to reduce the odds of it occurring as much as possible by using a series of tricks to work around the engine problems. :smirk:

[brett friggin favre]

didn't notice any lag on my end or anyone else's. i was zipping around like normal (it'd be more jumpy with lag), just left hand glitching on every tele.

attaching the demo. if it wasnt so late i'd look for the tick. but i wanna say it was maybe 10 minutes in that it crashed and this was happening immediately prior.

[What]

Last night around 12:40 am server crashed, I saw the enemy vagabond on my screen as a pedestrian, meaning he was left handed, but it was mid map and mid round which is unusually as of late for a left hand glitch.

[SCRIBBLE]

I get the left hand glitch nearly every time I join the server

[What]

Not just the glitch per se, but the glitch leading to an immediate server crash, i get it a decent amount at round start, but it doesn't lead to a server crash nessicarily.

[Erdenay]

Not just the glitch per se, but the glitch leading to an immediate server crash, i get it a decent amount at round start, but it doesn't lead to a server crash nessicarily.

This. I really don't get it too often and even when I do, the server only crashed once out of 6 times. I'd say normally it hasn't been too bad as of recently (personal experience).

[ZERO]

1.1.6


Added *.25 to the force mult values.

[Spasm]

why did you change the teleport speed. Huge nerf to vagabond, huge.

[ZERO]

Now the teleportation is exactly as it was in the original server...

[Spasm]

Now the teleportation is exactly as it was in the original server...

I don't agree, seems really slow, I know it's been a couple years since old wcs but it seems a lot slower now then it used to be.

[CYBER]

Huge vagabond nerf. I think the base speed should be altered to compensate for the slow speed. The race is too slow, why change something thats been that way for years...
this ^
vagabond needs to go back to what it was before the last nerf...
its not an op race, people have been trained to hunt vagabonds down and it shouldnt have that HUGE nerf...
it killed the race man.... teleport is just slow, and asking to be ripped to shreads before u even teleport once -.-
specially that bash races are still out, and jack is fucking out too -.-

vaga should have an increased speed to balance this useless nerf that slowed it down WAYYY more than before the orange updates on the orange server...
even before the updates, vaga has had the same speed and agility , specially for teleport, as just before the last nerf... nerfing it now would be going against the old ibis wcs standards for that race... a huge let down... even if the theory says its the same as old server, i still say no because of the feel of it... spasm seems to agree too ...

[CYBER]

fuck it.. i;ll double post...
everyone in the server agrees that vagabond was INSANELY slowed down... u cant even use the ultimate to jump from ground to the roof on westwood !!??? and i have it maxxed and playing that race since forever!...
dolls vagabond is not useless too...


i cant believe im saying this ,but congratulation zero, u managed to turn vagabond to a race weaker than rapscallion...
PLEASE FIX THIS PLEASE... its just WRONG ...

[Steamer]

The vaga speed was perfectly fine and gave a good level of challenge, now, it's a damn cake walk. If anything, it only "needed" about a 10% drop in speed.
This is how I feel, and I don't even whore the race, I just enjoyed the challenge.

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9487114.jpg

[ZERO]

I will play it the next time I am on and see what the deal is. Perhaps the changes should only be applied to the X and Y axis and not the Z.

[maynard]

I will play it the next time I am on and see what the deal is. Perhaps the changes should only be applied to the X and Y axis and not the Z.

it's pretty bad. played it a few rounds... was not fun or good anymore... just moves 2 damn slow when using ultimate.

[CYBER]

it's pretty bad. played it a few rounds... was not fun or good anymore... just moves 2 damn slow when using ultimate.

petition to have vaga revert back to the settings we've had for the last year up to the last nerf!...

with all the races ( jack etc...) coming out, and with all people at high level, vaga is not that much of an OP race as the beginning when no one had high levels.
heck, 90% of the time, the vaga is among the first to die , depending on game, without a necklace and flash... a lot of tracer races...

its fun , challenging and makes people EARN their fucking 450 xp they get when they kill someone high xp in it like me, shady spasm etc... lol

[Spasm]

I will play it the next time I am on and see what the deal is. Perhaps the changes should only be applied to the X and Y axis and not the Z.
Doesn't need to be tuned at all, the way it was is fine. I will tell u what it is like zero, its like going from level 10 ultimate to level 2. It is that big of a difference, I can only imagine what leveling a vagabond is like now lawl

[ZERO]

1.1.7

Removed *.25 force mult values.

[CYBER]

1.1.7

Removed *.25 force mult values.

Thank you! Heart attack avoided.

[Spasm]

Thanks Zero, :wtg::wtg::wtg:

[Steamer]

Yay!...

[Masskid]

i've gotten like 4 left hand glitches in the past hour.... whats going on?

[KholdStare]

I propose a 3.0 second cool down be added to this race. Although some people argue that this race is 100% balanced as is, the fact remains that this has got to be the single most bitched about race there is for a very good reason. The cool down wont be so long as to prevent the race from being used effectively, but will prevent it from being quite so hard to kill for those of us that dont have every counter race maxed and enough cash for lace+health every round.

Every other server I have played on has had a cooldown on the invis teleport so that it is used as it was intended - as a quick escape and way to get to sneaky spots for a sniper race. It was NOT intended to be the hard core attack race that it is. If 3 seconds is deemed too long (it would be 5 seconds if i had my way!) then 1.5 seconds would at least be better than it is now.

I feel this was about vegalion and rapscallion too - ill post those on their topics if this gets any response

[SCRIBBLE]

I propose a 3.0 second cool down be added to this race.

Not going to happen. This is not every other server you have played on.

[Erdenay]

I propose a 3.0 second cool down be added to this race. Although some people argue that this race is 100% balanced as is, the fact remains that this has got to be the single most bitched about race there is for a very good reason. The cool down wont be so long as to prevent the race from being used effectively, but will prevent it from being quite so hard to kill for those of us that dont have every counter race maxed and enough cash for lace+health every round.

Every other server I have played on has had a cooldown on the invis teleport so that it is used as it was intended - as a quick escape and way to get to sneaky spots for a sniper race. It was NOT intended to be the hard core attack race that it is. If 3 seconds is deemed too long (it would be 5 seconds if i had my way!) then 1.5 seconds would at least be better than it is now.

I feel this was about vegalion and rapscallion too - ill post those on their topics if this gets any response

Not even close to being most bitched about race. Also, it's fine as it is.

[Chikun]

Every other server I have played on

This server prides itself on being different.


ill post those on their topics if this gets any response

The responses won't be positive as this topic has been talked about for longer than it takes to pass a bill through U.S. Congress.

[KholdStare]

Not going to happen. This is not every other server you have played on.

1.5 second cooldown? 1.0 cooldown? Just so that they have to spend that tiny bit of time NOT invis to give people a chance... If you think that vagabond is a weak race because its cooldown goes up ONE second, then you are clearly using the ult as a crutch. Its a powerful race without non-stop invis-teleporting and much less infuriating. With other races you feel you have a chance - if you are good and fast you can usually pop off a headshot and win. With my level 16 human I often take down maxed Santa and the like, but basically just avoid all fights with vegabonds (same goes with the other invis teleport races). I use radar/lace/wards/roots/etc but it rarely works.

How about restricting some items for vaga? No lace would be a great start!

[SCRIBBLE]

Nope.

---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------

Stick with it, try playing vaga more, and learn to know your enemy.

[B1ackOut]

It is very possible to take down a vaga, limit the space he can move in, use the flashlight, predict his movements. When in doubt go human, the extra hp and bash is one of the best counters. Also if you have a lace the vaga is next to useless, especially if you do what I just mentioned. No nerfs will even happen or ever be needed, on this server the speed and teleport is what makes it such a dangerous race. As Scrib said, learning your enemy is the first step to beating them.

[CYBER]

Not even close to being most bitched about race. Also, it's fine as it is.hey new guy, u see the guy i just quoted? CLICK ON HIS FUCKING LINK AND LEARN HOW TO COUNTER VAGAS.

Vaga is NOT op. its very balanced. Buy a goddamn lace, sty out of the open, LISTEN, pay attention to the radar, learn their tells, stop being a bitch, and learn to play the game.If u cant do all of the above with erdenay's guide whih includes a 'how to kill the vaga monster' guide, then u simply dnt belong in here.

As simple as that. Everyone bitches about vagas and claim they will op to if they ised but the bottom line is that almost every idiot who couldnt counter a vaga will BECOME a crappy vaga and suck balls at it because its not that easy to master. Might be easy to play with a bunch of noobs that cant counter them (like u) but put them against me, wolf spasm tom masskid (whether we are vagas or not) and u'll see them crumble.

Also 3 seconds? Did u get high on raging before posting this? NO to ur entire post.

Read how many ppl bitched about it before in this same thread and u'll see them now able to counter those same vagas bcos they learned to stop bitching about OPness and start learning.

[SCRIBBLE]

CYBER are you trying to alienate new players?

[KholdStare]

Jesus such violent backlash against a suggestion! Okay maybe 3 seconds IS overkill but hard to understand why people freak out so much over a ONE second ultimate cooldown suggestion! Or if one item (necklace) was restricted! This would allow NE to be a viable anti-vega race. My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

Balance should mean that on average, no race is clearly better than the rest. I would bet that vegabond is the most played race on the server (I dont think i have ever seen a map go by without both teams having a vegabond...) and that if the player is any good, they are on the top of their team. That is not balanced. That is heavily skewed towards the vegabond. I'm not saying it is unkillable or that there are no counters. However - in the situation that you are NOT in tight spaces it can be very difficult to overcome. I see players who I easily kill when they are on normal races do many times better when they are on vegabond. If a players normal KDR is way lower than their kdr with a certain race, it is safe to say that the race is overpowered. I see dudes going 40:3 with vegabond - try and tell me that they would get the same score with another race!

[CYBER]

CYBER are you trying to alienate new players?not trying. But hey i it comes with the package, so be it. I'm just tired of people whi dnt know the my favorite race coming in and bashing on it when they simply don't understand the complex gameplay behind it. Ppl just claim it's op and so easy, once they start playing it, the end up slamming their face to the wall more than rihanna face under chris brown's hands.

Also, kholdstare, vaga is not the most played/op race in the server. U want op? Human, jack on claws, nebula, molecule on helm, lucky spidey evader...

Yeah, any one of those can buy a cheapass pace and get a vaga stuck, but unless the vaga takes 'em out with speed and swiftness and stealth, vaga is not a match for those races on average.

And if u claim he can kill from distance? Fine, but that still leaves ur comment about nerfig the vaga tele and lace useless . Not to mention nebula can down right disappear, molecule can evade 3-4 vaga scout/knife before it actually dies, human can take about 3 hits before dying (thats if u're lucky enough to find it hiding before it bashes u and locks ur crosshair permanently), and the spidey and jack have gap-closing speeds AND abiliies to fuck ur aim and get u stuck, lace or no lace...

The only reason vagas are seen played sooo much is not bcos of race op-ness but player preference. If im playing cbble or dolls or semi open map, vagas are just a gd choice to play. U want to see map with litle to no vaga gameplay on average? OFFICE. Why? Bcos it doesnt favor vaga.

So its not the race that's op. ppl just know when and how to use it. On office, shadow and molecule/nebule/human become dominant races...

So yeah, again, not tryin to be a dick, but learn to counter instead of bitching about balance.

Hell, hit me up sometime later and i'll personally teach u how to find them on the test server.

Just dnt go making false nerf claims if u're just wrong:)

[ZERO]

Jesus such violent backlash against a suggestion! Okay maybe 3 seconds IS overkill but hard to understand why people freak out so much over a ONE second ultimate cooldown suggestion! Or if one item (necklace) was restricted! This would allow NE to be a viable anti-vega race. My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

Balance should mean that on average, no race is clearly better than the rest. I would bet that vegabond is the most played race on the server (I dont think i have ever seen a map go by without both teams having a vegabond...) and that if the player is any good, they are on the top of their team. That is not balanced. That is heavily skewed towards the vegabond. I'm not saying it is unkillable or that there are no counters. However - in the situation that you are NOT in tight spaces it can be very difficult to overcome. I see players who I easily kill when they are on normal races do many times better when they are on vegabond. If a players normal KDR is way lower than their kdr with a certain race, it is safe to say that the race is overpowered. I see dudes going 40:3 with vegabond - try and tell me that they would get the same score with another race!

Actually balance means that some things work well against others and not well agents other things. This is like having the kids that selected bulbasaur said the game was unbalanced b/c everyone else keeps using charmander while ignoring the fact that they had the option to select squirtle. They then complain that while the other 2 are hard counts for stuff that bulbasaur is not as effective against squirtle as charmander is against it. Well bulbasaur is a hard counter to something that the other two are not as good against but fuck if I remember what that is.

Point being that balance means that some races are clearly better than others at killing other particular races. Inbalance would be when there is a race that can not be countered by anything and has very high KDR against every other race type.

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

Here is the KDR for how well Vagabond kills the level 0 races, you know the ones that EVERY PLAYER has access to:
Undead Scourge: 1.96
Orcish Horde: 1.89
Night Elf: 1.63
Human Alliance: 0.98

So while it is good against a lot of things even a starter race and that data includes all the clueless noobs that do not even know how to play the game yet using Human Alliance kill Vag more than it kills them. Also while there are 9 races that get better than 1:1 exchanges with Vag there is only 6 races that get better than a 1:1 exchange with Human which is why it has always been considered a very powerful race.

Now it is important to note that there is races coming in the future that will more directly hard counter races like vag and force that race to play differently but right now there is no immediate balance issue when the correct counters are used.

[What]

How has no one mentioned he is lumping rapscallion in with the vagas and even wants that race's ultimate nerfed. You know, cause raps are a bitch to counter.

[Chikun]

Now it is important to note that there are races coming in the future

Joy boner activated.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

If you think that vagabond is a weak race because its cooldown goes up ONE second, then you are clearly using the ult as a crutch.

not...really. people use vaga's ult as a weapoin. ever been knifed by a vaga thats flying through the air? vagabond is a classic race on our server, and has always been the exact same as it currently is.


My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

that's kinda why we have shadow hunter at such a low level req. it allows newer people to hold their own against the higher-leveled races.




I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.


you're new to this server. we don't give a shit about your previous experience with WCS. you can propose all you want, but you'd be wrong. vagabond is 100% in line with how it's meant to be played here.

note that they still need to come out of invisibility to shoot. vagabonds rely on being able to outsmart you, and leave your field of vision. because when they teleport, it's easy to see where they landed (generally. we have some VERY good 'bond and 'lion players). the ONLY race atm that requires nerfs is spiderman.

[SCRIBBLE]

Here is a dead horse. Aco will pass around the sticks and we each get a turn.

[Chikun]

Here is a dead horse. Aco will pass around the sticks and we each get a turn.

This horse is a skeleton and we're beating it with its own femurs.

[Tickle Me Emo]

This horse is a skeleton and we're beating it with its own femurs.

Almost spit my drink out when I read this.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

This horse is a skeleton and we're beating it with its own femurs.

not yet you're not. scribble said it's my job to pass out the sticks. i'll be passing the femurs out shortly.

[KholdStare]

so you guys are saying there is a chance?

[What]

As good a chance as bash being fixed.

[CYBER]

As good a chance as bash being fixed.

One of these days...


You know, we should all pool in some money and have zero take a break from working and EXCLUSIVELY play all humans against him in wcs live server.... just so that he gets his ass handed to him by that OP as fuck bash...
-.-

i love u zero... but that skill is the single most op skill due to a bug on the server.
It's not an illusion... it's literally something everyone sees... and i still dont understand why it's yet to be observed and fixed:(

[brett friggin favre]

One of these days...


You know, we should all pool in some money and have zero take a break from working and EXCLUSIVELY play all humans against him in wcs live server.... just so that he gets his ass handed to him by that OP as fuck bash...
-.-

i love u zero... but that skill is the single most op skill due to a bug on the server.
It's not an illusion... it's literally something everyone sees... and i still dont understand why it's yet to be observed and fixed:(

well i did post a demo that clearly illustrates the problem. sadly that was before the update.

[Erdenay]

so you guys are saying there is a chance?

I would say that this is as likely as Nemesis stopping being a racist bigot, Cyber being a rager, Wolf starting to despise vagalion or Spasm suddenly being dominated by Get a Haircut you Hippie... I.E. not very likely.

The basic problem with this is the assumption that something needs to be fixed or changed, when this is clearly not the case. As others have mentioned, I'd much rather see a nerf towards human/molecule/spider/jack/nebula.

[Chikun]

The basic problem with this is the assumption that something needs to be fixed or changed, when this is clearly not the case. As others have mentioned, I'd much rather see a nerf towards human/molecule/spider/jack/nebula.

It's wierd, spiderman doesn't annoy me anymore and I haven't had the pleasure of being whored by a human. People say human is OP with bash (it is) but I don't see many people playing it. Jack is only really annoying when someone is being a dick and buys a p90. Nebula and molecule will always be homo in their own ways but can be countered.

Has the race limit for spiderman been re-introduced like it was before?

Maybe a small tweak on evasion skills for spidey and molecule but otherwise they're fine. If the race limit for spiderman isn't there I'd say that needs to be restored. A team of all/mostly spidermen is gayer than gay sex.

[Wolfenstinger]

Hi... My name is Wolfenstinger... and I think I am addicted to Vagalions.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

so you guys are saying there is a chance?

look dude, you have to realize something. the server atm, outside of one or two bugs is identical to how it was before the orange box update. we, as a community, have purposely tried to bring the server back to how it was. the current powers of the vagabond/lion classes are intended.

you have no place to say that they "go against the spirit of the race" or whatever. the entire point of this server is that we're not trying to be identical to all the others, we're trying to be identical to what we had.

[brett friggin favre]

also might i add this link in here: http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/10511-Slaying-the-Vagamonster

[What]

everyone knows that if you want to kill a vaga you should run around in the open firing wildly in the air. Then when you die you are obliged to comment on how its OP.

[Masskid]

everyone knows that if you want to kill a vaga you should run around in the open firing wildly in the air.
Usually works for me

[Chikun]

everyone knows that if you want to kill a vaga you should run around in the open firing wildly in the air.

That's actually a viable tactic with jack. It's the Nancy Grace style, shoot bullets like accusations until something sticks.

[Passarelli]

Please restrict this race to require a minimum of 6 people (non bots) on the server when maxed (level 50). This is another race that kills servers.

[ZERO]

Reprograming started

[CYBER]

Go easy with that one. Don't fuck shit up or mess up the timing by a fraction of a millisecond. I know that race timing by heart!

[ZERO]

I am actually using a random function to determine the timings every button press just to fuck with people.

[CYBER]

You are inhuman! Lol

(sry about the public speech but that's my baby you're fine tuning Under the hood. Uh)

[ZERO]

Well I already found like 15 global vars and a ton of lines that are being optimized and removed as junk code. (mainly poorly optimized effects)

[ZERO]

Race is ready for final release testing. Should work exactly as it does on the live server.

[ZERO]

This race will have a "awp" however all dmg output is reprogrammed to that of a scout. This is for balance reasons as an awp is harder to no scope with. In addition it is also louder which enabled better tracking for players.

I am also going to make it so the weapon is custom and I think that you will all enjoy the change in this regard when you see what it is...

[CYBER]

Dammit zero... You had one billion jobs. THIS wasn't one! :(

[ZERO]

Oh when you see what I did your going to shit your pants.

[CYBER]

I knew I should have played my baby once before smthn fucks up... There I was trying to abstain from using my strong fav to be nice to dickheads who whored nonetheless...

GG.

[CYBER]

Btw zero. I am concerned more about the AWP WEIGHT slowing down your running and jumping, rather than only the no scope aspect...

Especially after you introduced the biggest mistake of your life to the server (aka the alchemist race, with the anti-scientifique ult shutting down all invisible and movement races forever.)...

[ZERO]

Your worried about it slowing down your running and jumping for a race that teleports? (note that nothing changes your jump height)

Also note that nothing stops me from just giving that race default 1.238095238095238 movement speed to to return the 210 rate of the awp to the 260 rate of the scout...

I can change basically anything that is not the client side prediction sounds.

[CYBER]

Lol... If someone is relying only on teleporting to play Vagas... They're doing it wrong.
Sidestep no scope are at the core of duels and indoor combats with laces around....
But i digress.
I'm sure u wont blow up the race lol...

[ZERO]

Actually, we had quite the no scope dual in the test server for a few rounds. We wanted to test to ensure that no scope attacks were not rendered impossible. While it is likely that the skill requirement will go up as a result I, who do not use this race often, had little issue landing no scope hits.

I will look into a system to alter the movement speed when this weapon is selected. I also got to ensure that it will remain restricted from the buy menu so noobs do not think they can actually buy an awp. (b/c I am going to need to unrestrict it on the live server)

[CYBER]

But how will you handle the option of players throwing their awps around? Or by death? Will it just disappear and start causing null errors like the old strider flight issues? Or u got smthn handling weapons disappearing on throw?

[ZERO]

It does not really matter if users pick them up. The issue is stupid people wasting money trying to buy it instead of a scout.

[What]

Forward always forward. Perhaps someday it will be good again.

[CYBER]

Define "it does not matter"?
You mean that players can actually use the AWP if the vagabond drops it?

Boy oh boy would undead, orc, and nebula be lots of fun.
+_-

[ZERO]

Well yea they could use it but the dmg would still be that of a scout so why they would use it is another question. The dmg alterations are being done in an independent program I made to ensure the awp=scout as far as damage goes.

[ZERO]

Movement changes are in effect, (only for this race). If other races pickup this gun they will not get the speed bonus.

The speed was critical b/c it does also logically effect even the teleport b/c of the way that it works. The movement now functions just like it should.

[ZERO]

OK also got a program in place that will prevent people from trying to buy them so they can only originate from a vagabond dropping one.

[CYBER]

Well yea they could use it but the dmg would still be that of a scout so why they would use it is another question. The dmg alterations are being done in an independent program I made to ensure the awp=scout as far as damage goes.

Ohhhh ok so the damage alteration is done on the guy level, not the vagabond level. So anyone using that AWP would deal a scout dmg... Still...
RIP proper scout aiming... Welcome unintentional random AWP recoil headshot bullshit

[ZERO]

Time to improve your no scope skills to pro level...

[ZERO]

1.1.8


Initial Release of recoded version
Converted AWP to Scout for use with this race
Custom model for AWP implemented
All dmg is the exact same as scout.
Player movement speed (for vag only) is exactly the same as scout.

[Devilbear]

Time to improve your no scope skills to pro level...

If only you could predict a random shot, no scoping with a scout requires skill, no scoping with an awp however is completely random and a huge nerf to a race that doesn't really need it.

Also since the change there's this really annoying bug that happens if you teleport while scoped, it stays zoomed in until you go visible again, and it makes it really hard to aim where you're going.
The speed also seems slower than before. You say it's the same as scout, but I don't think the adrenaline skill does anything right now. I might be wrong on this one though, a more experienced bond player would have to test it.
Lastly the awp is left handed for some reason, makes it even harder to no scope, and it just feels really weird if you're used to right handed. Might be a bug on my end though.

[CYBER]

If only you could predict a random shot, no scoping with a scout requires skill, no scoping with an awp however is completely random and a huge nerf to a race that doesn't really need it.

Also since the change there's this really annoying bug that happens if you teleport while scoped, it stays zoomed in until you go visible again, and it makes it really hard to aim where you're going.
The speed also seems slower than before. You say it's the same as scout, but I don't think the adrenaline skill does anything right now. I might be wrong on this one though, a more experienced bond player would have to test it.
Lastly the awp is left handed for some reason, makes it even harder to no scope, and it just feels really weird if you're used to right handed. Might be a bug on my end though.

yeah that "scope teleport" thing is actually intentionally implemented by zero... personally i am VERY VERY VERY vocal against it.
That left hand glitch happened during the testing server, zero's aware of it.

personally i have "playtested" the awp noscope, i wasn't really a fan of the scout-to-awp change, but originally vagabond actually had an awp not a scout. , but it was too op with the dmg
Zero foudn a new way to tweak the awp dmg output so he reverted to its original awp form, and i playtested it... u can still noscope and do ur vaga shit still, not as "easily" but yeah...

personally i just want the damn doublescope teleport thing that zero intentionally put removed.. it goes against my very nature of playing vagabond...

- Seasoned Vagabond Whorer (euh. i mean player)

[ZERO]

I should note that it is not something that I went out of my way to add. It is 100% caused by the game engine. I did not however go out of my way to prevent that. If it appears that it is effecting the race too much I will look into a fix for it. It is just that I would rather spend that time updating the other races or making new ones b/c I could likely do 2-3 races in the time it would take to fix that if it is not an easy fix.

[CYBER]

I should note that it is not something that I went out of my way to add. It is 100% caused by the game engine. I did not however go out of my way to prevent that. If it appears that it is effecting the race too much I will look into a fix for it. It is just that I would rather spend that time updating the other races or making new ones b/c I could likely do 2-3 races in the time it would take to fix that if it is not an easy fix.

Well I personally would want this added on the to-do list. Its Priority can be... Euh... Put aside for a moment unless it causes more issues... But i definitely want that thing back to nozoom down the road... Poor vaga