Audio Card advice

[dice]

I'm an audiophile to the extreme, but as far as computer sound cards go I don't know much.

I've been having trouble with this Razer AC-1 for years now. Most recently, routing my xbox360's digital audio through it apparently fried all the other inputs on the card and Razer basically told me to go fuck myself because I can't provide proof of a purchase that occured over 4 years ago. I can't swap the input back to my mic or line in, so I tried reinstalling and now the drivers crash on boot-up. If I try to load them manually I get blue screened. I have decided this piece of junk shall be introduced to my sledgehammer before being mailed back to Razer. I might even print out the transcript of my e-mail conversation with support, rub my nuts on it, and include it in the mailing.

I've been to Creative's version of hell before this card and don't plan to go back.

Is there a company out there that actually makes good audio cards with decent drivers?

[ZERO]

As an audiophile I can tell you that you do NOT WANT A SOUND CARD.

If you care anything at all about audio you require an EXTERNAL DAC. You can then connect it to the computer via USB as I do or via coxal or optical. Due to the laws of nature it is physically impossible for a sound card to EVER sound superior to an external DAC.

Depending on how much money your looking to spend you can even get DAC/Amps as well.

First I would recommend searching Head-fi.org for dacs that fit your needs as well as reviews.

Audio Gd makes some great Dac amps like the fun (which is the unit that replaced mine (the compass)) as well as some great sounding dedicated neutral dacs: http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm

Little Dot also makes great products like the ones below:
http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=927&sid=7c533a20ee093cb0d22c7f41abb44ebd
http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=814&sid=7c533a20ee093cb0d22c7f41abb44ebd
http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=818&sid=7c533a20ee093cb0d22c7f41abb44ebd

Both of these producers make some great products are very reasonable prices. These companies are well known for producing high value products.

[dice]

I almost bought a dac with my grado sigs but I want something that goes inside my case so its not something else to lug around and quite frankly dacs are pricey.

I've got gear to listen to my music, I don't cream over my records via computer. I just want a sound card whose drivers weren't written by dropouts and has good enough reproduction that I don't cringe when I listen to movies/games.

[ZERO]

You do realize that the first little dot dac I sent you is smaller than a sound card and costs less money...

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

mmm the power of amps and dacs

[dice]

You do realize that the first little dot dac I sent you is smaller than a sound card and costs less money...

Its a vact though, isn't it fragile?

[ZERO]

It would be no different than transporting a glass. Just make sure nothing hits the bulb and your good. Also other companies make small dacs as well just that they cost (possibly also sound) more.

[dice]

Thanks for the tips Z I'll look around for DACs, I might even cheat and find a way to mount it my 5.25 bays

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Thanks for the tips Z I'll look around for DACs, I might even cheat and find a way to mount it my 5.25 bays

Proactive thinking. Though i recommend not doing that. keep it out and set it someone where flashy =D

[Andrew_Pavlik]

Wow I never new anything like this existed, I will be getting one of these soon.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Wow I never new anything like this existed, I will be getting one of these soon.

have you ever heard of an amp? lol

Depends on what you want to do.

if you want to be recording directly into your comp id go with an amp.

[ZERO]

Thanks for the tips Z I'll look around for DACs, I might even cheat and find a way to mount it my 5.25 bays

You do realize that part of the point of it being external is to protect it from the high EMI levels inside the computer :smirk:

[ZERO]

Wow I never new anything like this existed, I will be getting one of these soon.

Yea hold your horses you are only going to need this sort of stuff if you have headphones capable of actually producing the difference. That is not to say that it is not worth is but your headphones should be around 30-50% of the cost of an entire setup.

[Andrew_Pavlik]

Yes I have heard of an 'amp' but not for your headphones.

Do these amps need anything special inside the computer? Or are they good to go the way they are?

As for Headphones, I have a pretty decent set of headphones right now and they would fill that 'rule' nice for the cheap amp you posted. But thats good to know if I wanna go higher.

[Derezzler]

Ill just leave this here

[Tickle Me Emo]

Ill just leave this here

I own a pair of Sony MDR-V6 and can personally vouch for them being sweet headphones for the price. I actually just recently thought to hook them up to my computer to see how much better they are than my $40 Senn headset and... wow. Even running through nothing better than a Creative X-Fi "XtremeMusic" (a.k.a. cheap) sound card they are far better. Sound stage is heads above the cheaper Senns. Plus, they're closed-back circumaural which is better for isolation. I think I'm going to have to hook up a desk mic and relegate my headset to use when I'm on the road/at LANs.

I want a nice external DAC but I think it's gonna have to wait until money is less of a question.

[dice]

You do realize that part of the point of it being external is to protect it from the high EMI levels inside the computer :smirk:

Yeah but EMI shields aren't hard to make. I made one for my old creative card. I mean especially if you're going to mount a DAC in a drive bay, you can make a beast fucking EMI shield that's probably 99% effective and completely safe because of the spacing between electronics. Hell, you could probably just line the drive bay with 3-4 sheets of aluminum foil, then make a bracket for the DAC, and you're golden. I'd be more thorough than that, of course.

[ZERO]

You going to shield all the cables inside too? I mean you can do it but it is a lot of extra work.

As for the headphone guide this is the problem when you make guides like what without having actually heard for yourself what they all sound like or at minimum what each one sounds in relation to its closest competitor. This is proven by the presence of the DT880, you see this is actually a pretty popular set however that is becuase its owners have never heard the DT990. By looking at the frequency chart one would believe that there is no real difference other than extra bass and a more open cam (lower isolation) for the 990 and therefore it is not worth the extra money. However this is misleading, as the dt990 is vastly superior to the DT880 so much so that the 880 owners who heard my 990s sold the 880s for the 990s after realizing how big of a role sound stage plays.

Note that sound stage is often left out of ranking of sound quality as they are to different things. You can have 2 headphones with equal sound quality but greatly different sound stages. This greatly impacts the final sound that you hear and the expired. There is a perfect balance of not too big and not too small that a good sound stage should have however this is a balance often struck with the assistance of a good setup.

Take for example the Audeo Phonak PFE which got a 9 out of 10. I own these and they do have great sound quality that is almost as good as my dt990s however the real difference is seen in the sound stage which is something an iem can never really fully produce. This is what makes the 990s a world ahead.

So for you to find the right headphones you need to know where you want to be placed in relation to the stage and what sort of frequencies you want empathized. As no device or headphone is perfect you want to make sure that your DAC and Amp are ones that will produce good synergy with the headphones you have. The key is not always in just having really high end gear it is in obtaining great synergy.

[dice]

You can talk sound stage all day for higher end gear but I mean if you're paying less than $100 the ONLY way to go is SR60i or 80i. Nothing else compares.

Now if you want to drop more than that, don't buy online. Go LISTEN to them at a store. Stats and Specs on headphones are like stats and specs for pizza places. How much pepperoni you get per slice doesn't mean shit if the pepperoni doesn't taste good. If you want real good shit, find cans with wooden cups. They sound so warm you wish the whole world played through them so you'd never have to take them off. Like these:

http://www.headphone.com/headphones/hifiman-he-5-headphones.php

And the cans I currently use: http://www.headphone.com/headphones/grado-gs-1000i.php

Those gs1000's create a huge space for your ears to sit in, and have vented drivers surrounded by mahogany cups. It produces a warm, wide open sound that completely immerses you in whatever you're listening to.

[ZERO]

I have listened to them for a good amount of time and those really do sound great. They also are a good example though of my budget reference before. I have heard those on a few different setups and the equipment that produced the best synergy for them cost more to as much money as they did.

The only thing I would say is that if I was spending that kind of money I would be going fully balanced at that point.