OCCUPY gets out of hand

[elpolloloco]

Whether or not you think the Occupy movement is just a bunch of slackers, but this is absolutely intolerable. I admit I'm a conservative and think a lot of this Occupy stuff is mostly a bunch of slackers, but regardless, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OZLyUK0t0vQ

For those two can't look at work or whatever: The cops threw a flash bang into the crowd, which injured someone. Even if it was an accident, the cops deliberately threw another one right INTO THE MIDDLE of a group of people that were trying to help the injured person.

This cop needs to be fuckin' crucified

This video needs to be all over the national news

[StarsMine]

Did you also see the one who just walked by and maced a group of protesters?
Most of the police have been acting the way they should, but there are always the dumbasses like this.

[brett friggin favre]

do you expect cops to be perfectly calm in that situation? that's not just a peaceful protest, that's essentially a riot (leave it to oakland). imagine being an admin on these servers, you go on the gungame server and holy shit people are tk'ing everywhere, calling each other ni****s, breaking rules left and right...what do you do? you throw a few 1 hr bans around to try to get stuff under control. peoples' lives are at risk in this situation or at least a cop can see it that way, and he was willing to risk the injury of a few to save the lives of more. crucify him? he's doing his job. you can have a PEACEFUL protest but don't riot, then you're just asking for this. you can only poke the dog a few times before it bites you. do you not see the "protesters" lobbing things at the cops? how long til that turns deadly? you HAVE to put a stop to it sometime

sorry i keep editing this. it's unfortunate that people were injured, but the occupy movement is supposed to be a peaceful, legal protest. in oakland, that turned into violence and illegal activity. THAT is not legal. when you cross the line, you accept the fact that there ARE consequences and you gotta be prepared for them.

[elpolloloco]

Let me state this: If the police are ordered to disperse the crowd and launch smoke and flashes into the crowd, I have no problem with it. But this isn't about that.

This is about the cops DELIBERATELY aiming, TRYING TO HIT HUMANS who were trying to help an injured person. This isn't about whether or not the crowd should have been broken up. I think those people are a bunch of slackers, but to deliberately try to injure a group of people TRYING TO HELP someone laying on the crowd critical injured is just unacceptable.

[brett friggin favre]

i understand what you're saying, however using a charged word like crucify is a little extreme. what happened should be looked into, but i don't see any reason to CRUCIFY this guy (literally or just in the media). haven't you made mistakes at your job? if it was a mistake, proper punishment actions should be taken, but would you want your job mistakes to be all over the national news?

[elpolloloco]

haven't you made mistakes at your job?

If I did it deliberately with intent to injure, then it wouldn't be a mistake, now would it?

[brett friggin favre]

If I did it deliberately with intent to injure, then it wouldn't be a mistake, now would it?

yes it would be. not an "oopsie" mistake, an "i overreacted" mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. also note that flashbangs, while capabilities of causing injury, are intended to disorient, and nothing more. it is a non-lethal form of crowd control, and as i stated before, the protesters were also lobbing things at the cops (with intent to injure?)

[elpolloloco]

the protesters were also lobbing things at the cops (with intent to injure?)

Some were, yes. This group wasn't even looking at the cops and the cop that threw it had a front row view of this. He could see that NONE of these guys presented any immediate harm. Throw a flash bang at the guy throwing a rock. Throw some smoke next to the group that was trying to help. But when you see that your "OOPSIE" did serious injury to someone that caused the fuckin' guy to lay there BLEEDING FROM THE SKULL 3 feet away from you and you do it again, with EVEN MORE direct intent, that's just fuckin' retarded.

I know neither one of us are going to sway the other, but if this guy was so stupid that he didn't know that lobbing a flash bang in someone's face would do serious injury and couldn't figure it out after the guy RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM got hit in the face and laid on the crowd bleeding from the head, he needs to have his balls stapled to the wall.

And this opinion is coming from a conservative guy here who thinks the "Occupiers" are a bunch of smelly hippies. And think about this. The guy that was on the ground was obviously injured. And he threw a flash band just 1 foot from a man that was already bleeding from the skull.

Let me repeat that: The COP.... threw a flashbang, 1 foot away... from a guy... that was BLEEDING.... from the skull, man that was a few FEET from the cop that he could see.

And let me ask you this: Since now you seem to be arguing more about how big of a mistake it was, it looks like you are indeed admitting it was a mistake. So you're essentially admitting that what the cop did was wrong then, right? We're just arguing about HOW wrong?

[brett friggin favre]

i wouldn't say arguing, i'd say bantering. i'm saying from what i can see, it appears to me that a mistake has been made. however i don't know what happened before this, incident, so i can't say for sure. but really the person wasn't injured as bad as it seems. from what i know about flashbangs, it was a minor facial laceration combined with disorientation (temporary blindness, ears ringing, etc.) now if the guy had a huge gash in his head, blood spewing from his eyeballs, and was unconscious, then yes this would be a huge deal. in all likelihood though he may have to wear a band-aid for a few days, but again i can't say for sure cuz i don't know what happened after this. the second flash does seem unnecessary, but riots are very confusing times and it's difficult to think clearly. i'm just trying to give the cop benefit of the doubt because i know a lot of cops and none have any intent of harming anyone in their community. yes it could be a retarded nasty cop, like percy in the green mile, but i'm gonna give the guy the benefit of the doubt here. just my personal opinion, not saying i'm right or wrong, just that based on the evidence at hand and on my own personal experience, that's how i feel.

[elpolloloco]

i wouldn't say arguing, i'd say bantering. i'm saying from what i can see, it appears to me that a mistake has been made. however i don't know what happened before this, incident, so i can't say for sure. but really the person wasn't injured as bad as it seems. from what i know about flashbangs, it was a minor facial laceration combined with disorientation (temporary blindness, ears ringing, etc.) now if the guy had a huge gash in his head, blood spewing from his eyeballs, and was unconscious, then yes this would be a huge deal. in all likelihood though he may have to wear a band-aid for a few days, but again i can't say for sure cuz i don't know what happened after this. the second flash does seem unnecessary, but riots are very confusing times and it's difficult to think clearly. i'm just trying to give the cop benefit of the doubt because i know a lot of cops and none have any intent of harming anyone in their community. yes it could be a retarded nasty cop, like percy in the green mile, but i'm gonna give the guy the benefit of the doubt here. just my personal opinion, not saying i'm right or wrong, just that based on the evidence at hand and on my own personal experience, that's how i feel.

Well that's about as close as we're going to get on the subject and I respect your opinion. I just dont' trust a lot of cops, especially Oakland cops. The people of Oakland shouldn't have much cause for trusting them either. They're involved in countless court cases right now about abusing their powers and one was even found guilty of straight up murder earlier this year.

Plus I don't live too far from the University of Maryland. Every other year or so there's a basketball riot, the last one being due to us beating Duke. I had a friend was was running around and got shot in the face with a rubber bullet. Even *I* admit that he got what he deserved. But I've also seen tons of abuse during these riots as well. Anyone from th DC area can tell ya about an incident going on right now a high profile beat down that happened during that last duke riot. A man got a severe beat down by about 3-4 cops with batons. The cops claimed he attacked them first. Which is funny, because the next day, video emerged on youtube of the incident which show the guys literally SKIPPING down the sidewalk, stopping about 10 feet away from a few horseback cops. A few words exchanged and the man didn't do so much as even flip a cop off and they jumped off their horses and bashed his brains in. Even after the video went viral on youtube the official word was that he made the first gesture and it wasn't until the local news grabbed the video and showed it that the PG county cops had to eat their words.

I just don't trust cops. They LIE just as much, if not more than your average citizen.

Anyone who witness shit like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAPwyodTkYA would have just as much reason to be pissed off at cops

[Rosie]

the trouble with this is that guy got injured in someway not associated to the flashbang. We see a 15 second clip that shows him already on the ground, but what if it was 4 or 5 gusy who were whipping his ass. When the crowd rushes back in who is to say one of those guys didn't come to finnish the job he started. I have used flashbangs quite a bit, and they are only about a half a pound. A head injury like that doesn't come from a flashbang. Just saying.

the trouble with the video is that it is posted by Occupy. Therfore it is propoganda related to enforce their cause. You do not see what happened for the 5 minutes prior to the crowd being dispearsed.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

the trouble with this is that guy got injured in someway not associated to the flashbang. We see a 15 second clip that shows him already on the ground, but what if it was 4 or 5 gusy who were whipping his ass. When the crowd rushes back in who is to say one of those guys didn't come to finnish the job he started. I have used flashbangs quite a bit, and they are only about a half a pound. A head injury like that doesn't come from a flashbang. Just saying.

the trouble with the video is that it is posted by Occupy. Therfore it is propoganda related to enforce their cause. You do not see what happened for the 5 minutes prior to the crowd being dispearsed.


this.

fucking, this.

[elpolloloco]

the trouble with the video is that it is posted by Occupy. Therfore it is propoganda related to enforce their cause. You do not see what happened for the 5 minutes prior to the crowd being dispearsed.

This is true. In a court of law, nothing would come of this because you can't conclusively say what caused the dude to be on the ground.

You're right about the propaganda, though. I mean, there's all this uproar about this "IRAQ VET that got HURT". What does his veteran status have ANYTHING to do with that other than to just conjure up emotions in the readers. The first thing I thought when I read that headline was "WHO THE F&K cares if he was a vet. That has NOTHING to do with this. The cops didn't know he was a vet. Being a vet doesn't give his opinion on an economic protest any more weight." Ya know?

I think it's more likely he got hit with a tear gas canister which is probably way heavier, than having got his add beat. If someone got his ass beat right in front of a cop, you'd think the cops would have stepped up and stopped it.

But then again, you're right. However, if he had gotten hit in the head with a tear gas canister RIGHT in front of the cops so they could see it, don't you think the flash bang was a bit uncalled for? He already had a head injury. What if that thing had exploded right in his face.

I think it's very important for people to document these protests on video. There are plenty of cops out there that love abusing power and being in a situation like this gives them carte blanche (sp?) sometimes to live out their violent fantasies. I just wish someone had captures a few different angles of this.

[maynard]

so where exactly is this out of hand? it doesn't show what actually happened 2 the dude.. this shit is just propaganda for all those faggots who are protesting and accomplishing nothing... funny how North america is the only place on the planet that hasn't figured out yet that non violent protests accomplish absolutely nothing lol....

when riot police say move along, and then 10 people turn around and start rushing back 2 the police line, no shit they gonna throw a flash bang, or start tazing.. it's just common fucking sense lol....

the police would have also dealt with that guy and got him medical attention as soon as every 1 cleared the area and felt it was safe.

this entire "protest" is a joke....

[elpolloloco]

that non violent protests accomplish absolutely nothing lol....


.

I wouldn't say that. If you do something that causes the entire world to take notice and copy you, and to get 100's of millions of people to talk, you might not overthrow "the evil corporations", but I'd say that's quite an accomplishment.

Not that I would give the occupiers the dignity of being held on the same level, but Ghandi accomplished a hell of a lot without resorting to violence. This is America. Making your voice heard in a huge sonic wave is what our democracy is all about. If you want to call them slackers and dirty hippies that's fine. Lord knows I do. But I think anyone who thinks tons of angry people should just sit on their ass and do nothing don't have any idea what this country is all about. In the last 100 years, hundreds of thousands of American soldiers have fought and died to preserve your right to free speech and to protect against our country turning into a fascist government like Hitler's Germany, Stalin and Mao's Russia and China, and modern day Syria, iran, etc.You can disagree with the message all you want and there are a fair share of spoiled brats out there, but to dismiss the entire movement as just stupid, I think, is a slap in the face to every American that fought and died for this country and what it stands for. Our men and women don't go out and die so we can go shopping, so we can by flatscreen TV's, so we can watch American Idol and to download porn. They do it to preserve our Contitution, which was founded on the freedom to speak out when you don't like the way your country is going.

King George III and most subjects of Britain probably thought the colonists were being a bunch of spoiled brats when they went out and dumped a bunch of tea overboard to protest something as stupid and harmless as a tax on tea and paper. And a few years later we ended up with our own country.

[maynard]

lol america isn't even remotely close 2 being like Nazi Germany was...

I don't think the majority of them are smelly hippies either, I think they are middle and upper class people with nothing better 2 do, so they go around just causing shit pretending they are making some type of significant change when they are in fact not... unless being on the news is some how accomplishing something, that "protest" has accomplished NOTHING. it's a complete joke... and then people start talking the cops and act like they enjoy babysitting a buncha idiots lol... I'm sure they much rather be at home with their families.

yes.. obviously gandhi is an exception... but end result.. like I originally said.. this "protest" is a joke, and will accomplish NOTHING..

[StarsMine]

One thing I compleatly agree with these guys is that lobbiests just need to get the fuck out of congress.
Lobbiests make the laws more then the congressmen do, and the lobbiests laws sure as hell are not for protecting the people.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

Let me state this: If the police are ordered to disperse the crowd and launch smoke and flashes into the crowd, I have no problem with it. But this isn't about that.

This is about the cops DELIBERATELY aiming, TRYING TO HIT HUMANS who were trying to help an injured person. This isn't about whether or not the crowd should have been broken up. I think those people are a bunch of slackers, but to deliberately try to injure a group of people TRYING TO HELP someone laying on the crowd critical injured is just unacceptable.

At what point in time was it intentional. The mayor passed down a direct order to allow police to use those means of crowd control. When some one gets injured in an angry unorganized riot, police need to do what ever then can to defuse the situation. If I was the cop who threw that flash, I would of thrown another with the intent to clear a path and get the injured out of a stampeding riot of protesters.


Posted from my phone


Starsmine. I don't think you have a clear understanding of what a lobbyist is. A lobbist didn't give to ducks about what the out come of legislation or stokes or any other thing is. His job is to get payed to convince another to do somthing in favor of who ever hired the lobbyist to begin with. If you want to argue how to fix the gov, getting rid of lobbyists isn't the right way. Even if you outlawed the proffesion CEOs and congress man would still "lobby" them selves. America is capitalism and that is one of several reasons we are the greatest country in the world. To attempt to give the gov more power and turn our nation into a socialist fiasco is completly absurd.

[elpolloloco]

I don't think the majority of them are smelly hippies either, I think they are middle and upper class people with nothing better 2 do, so they go around just causing shit pretending they are making some type of significant change when they are in fact not... unless being on the news is some how accomplishing something, that "protest" has accomplished NOTHING. it's a complete joke... and then people start talking the cops and act like they enjoy babysitting a buncha idiots lol... I'm sure they much rather be at home with their families.


It may be a joke to you, but not to others. There's a lot of fucked up shit in this country and there is plenty of reason to be angry. Irresponsible people caused a lot of mess with foreclosures but irresponsible banks had a lot to do with it to, yet they get 10's of billions in bailouts. They may not have done anything illegal, but to say they didn't do anything unethical is outrageous. We blew so much money on Iraq when the war was based on a lie and we should have been focusing on Afghanistan. The more you sit back, the more the government tries to inject religion into your laws. The more they try to tax you and create a system of social engineering. If you give the government and inch, it will indeed take that inch from you and see how much more of your freedom you can scoop up. It isn't a system wide conspiracy usually, as much as it is a minority of people with a lot of power power (be it political power or economic power) will do what they can to make the world better for only themselves. Laws are made and broken based on how much money an interest group throws as it. We print more and more money to back up more and more debt causing inflation which is basically a tax on EVERYONE. It's been like that for a while, yes, but when do you decide enough is enough?

America is no NAZI germany, you're right about that. But Nazi Germany wasn't Nazy Germany 20 years prior to WWII. Russia's communist revolution didn't turn the country into a nightmare for human rights overnight. Stalin wouldn't have been able to order troops to literally starve 2 million people to death if years of people hadn't been subjected to years of propaganda that the state is more important that human rights. That shit happens gradually and if you think you see the tides of something unjust coming in, WHY NOT try to bring attention to it rather than wait until there's someone on your doorstep and then you're actually FORCED to violence? Isn't it better to stop what you perceive to be the makings of a fascist government and try to bring attention to it early rather than wait until it's too late?

I feel the same way you do largely about the protestors, but not every one of them are a bunch of middle class whiners. Plenty of them have real reason to be fed up. What good is having free speech if you're not allowed to use it when you think there is a cause for it?

When you get a large group of people together, and the larger it gets, the more "idiots" you've obviously going to get that needed to be "babysat" but you shouldn't make a generalization about 95% of a group based on 5% of them being morons. That's life. There is always going to be a group of morons tagging along, bringing more attention to themselves than to the message the responsible people are trying to bring to light. I think the protests that broke out 10 years ago over the World bank were justified. Some would say that the World bank does more harm to poor nations than good. It's a worthy cause to protest over, but then the Black Block had to go and fuck it all up and discredit the entire movement. They were the small minority that fucked it all up for everyone.

People see the 99% thing and assume people are just pissed that the rich are getting richer. Deep down that's not what people are concerned about. That's just a symptom of the real problem that people are protesting about: An unbalanced amount of influence on the government by the rich.

I have strong opinions on politics, but I don't think any one person can know with 100% certainty what kind of policies are good for the country. Democrats have a point. Republicans have a point. I go about my business knowing that no matter how strongly I feel about a subject, there's always a change that the guy with the opposite opinion *could* be correct. So whether or not I think a movement is going to help or hurt, as long as you're intentions are good and you truly ARE trying to make this county a better place then you DAMN WELL better make sure your voice is heard. Just do your research and try to make sure you know what you're talking about first. Speaking up against what you think is wrong is your DUTY.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

It may be a joke to you, but not to others. There's a lot of fucked up shit in this country and there is plenty of reason to be angry. Irresponsible people caused a lot of mess with foreclosures but irresponsible banks had a lot to do with it to, yet they get 10's of billions in bailouts. They may not have done anything illegal, but to say they didn't do anything unethical is outrageous. We blew so much money on Iraq when the war was based on a lie and we should have been focusing on Afghanistan. The more you sit back, the more the government tries to inject religion into your laws. The more they try to tax you and create a system of social engineering. If you give the government and inch, it will indeed take that inch from you and see how much more of your freedom you can scoop up. It isn't a system wide conspiracy usually, as much as it is a minority of people with a lot of power power (be it political power or economic power) will do what they can to make the world better for only themselves. Laws are made and broken based on how much money an interest group throws as it. We print more and more money to back up more and more debt causing inflation which is basically a tax on EVERYONE. It's been like that for a while, yes, but when do you decide enough is enough?

America is no NAZI germany, you're right about that. But Nazi Germany wasn't Nazy Germany 20 years prior to WWII. Russia's communist revolution didn't turn the country into a nightmare for human rights overnight. Stalin wouldn't have been able to order troops to literally starve 2 million people to death if years of people hadn't been subjected to years of propaganda that the state is more important that human rights. That shit happens gradually and if you think you see the tides of something unjust coming in, WHY NOT try to bring attention to it rather than wait until there's someone on your doorstep and then you're actually FORCED to violence? Isn't it better to stop what you perceive to be the makings of a fascist government and try to bring attention to it early rather than wait until it's too late?

I feel the same way you do largely about the protestors, but not every one of them are a bunch of middle class whiners. Plenty of them have real reason to be fed up. What good is having free speech if you're not allowed to use it when you think there is a cause for it?

When you get a large group of people together, and the larger it gets, the more "idiots" you've obviously going to get that needed to be "babysat" but you shouldn't make a generalization about 95% of a group based on 5% of them being morons. That's life. There is always going to be a group of morons tagging along, bringing more attention to themselves than to the message the responsible people are trying to bring to light.

People see the 99% thing and assume people are just pissed that the rich are getting richer. Deep down that's not what people are concerned about. That's just a symptom of the real problem that people are protesting about: An unbalanced amount of influence on the government by the rich.

Freedom of speech is not being taken away. You need a clear grasp on why police do what tthey do. There are laws for loitering, curfews, obstruction of noise, violent acts, vandalisim, litering, obstruction of traffic with out city permission. The list goes on, these people are breaking multiple laws and you say there having there freedom of speech taken away?

[Steamer]

What the fuck happened top the constitutional right for peaceful assembly? Oh yes... the lobbyist's beat them the fuck down like every other right.

Constitution broken all over, regardless.

Utter bullshit.

Hell... in my state law makers stole all the road funds and guess who has to fucking pay them back?! Me and every other tax paying fucking citizen. Pollo knows what im talkin bout.

I for one am fed up with all the bullshit, but there is no protesting organization with an agenda of what I like. If I had the funds and means to set one up myself I would.

I work and live within this bullshit every day. It's easy to make assumptions when you do not see it first hand.

In Baltimore there where no laws broken on the assembly, yet made to pack up anyway besides 2 per night. The government dick deepthroating from some people pisses me off so much.

I honestly wish this shit got very violent, maybe there would be some accelerated progress on the actual underlying cause.

[elpolloloco]

Freedom of speech is not being taken away. You need a clear grasp on why police do what tthey do. There are laws for loitering, curfews, obstruction of noise, violent acts, vandalisim, litering, obstruction of traffic with out city permission. The list goes on, these people are breaking multiple laws and you say there having there freedom of speech taken away?

I think you misunderstood me. We're bouncing back and forth between two subjects here. I'm not suggesting that our "freedom of speech" is being taken away because of this flashbang incident. I'm talking about something else. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm referring to the people that think this movement is stupid and that these people have no place to be complaining and protesting at all. I'm just saying that whether or not you agree with their cause, if a group of people think they see this country becoming more and more unjust that it's their duty as Americans to make their voices heard and they they shouldn't be dismissed so easily. I'm just saying that our soldiers die every day to make sure we have this right and if someone is going to give their life for this right, then we better make the most of it.

You have some idiots in Oakland and other part of the country that take all the media attention because they act stupid and then people associate EVERYONE with these morons, but sorry. I didn't mean to give the impression that this "freedom of speech" rant had anything to do with the flashbang incident.

To be clear: I'm not suggesting ALL that our freedom is speech is being taken away. I'm suggesting that our freedom is speech is something not to be taken for granted. So many other countries suffer more than we do and don't have this privilege so we should use it when we think there is a cause. There are millions, if not billions of people that wish they had this right, and I think when they see us using these rights, it gives them hope and gives us more worldwide respect.

[Steamer]

I don't think you have a clear understanding of what a lobbyist is. A lobbist didn't give to ducks about what the out come of legislation or stokes or any other thing is. His job is to get payed to convince another to do somthing in favor of who ever hired the lobbyist to begin with. If you want to argue how to fix the gov, getting rid of lobbyists isn't the right way. Even if you outlawed the proffesion CEOs and congress man would still "lobby" them selves. America is capitalism and that is one of several reasons we are the greatest country in the world. To attempt to give the gov more power and turn our nation into a socialist fiasco is completly absurd.

You are right on what a lobbyist is. What does capitalism usually lead to Mikey? Think about it... What the attempt is, is to take power back from the government and the rich people that are seated in it for their own greed. This shit has all happened before... Will happen again... Just a matter of when... Then repeated again, and again, and again. People and power roles get out of hand and shit needs to be put back in place or will implode. Nothing new.

IDK about you, but I'd rather be able to self sustain than have shit fed to me by a fucking government. I can do shit on my own, by myself, I am my own fucking man, I don't need to be forced and told what to do by another.

[StarsMine]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/400862/october-27-2011/shockupy-wall-street-fad?xrs=synd_facebook :lmao:

[Steamer]

"we're gonna snort the bones ground up of the poor.. it's good.. it is is good" :lmao: