Roman Scum: "The Mafia Game." (REGISTERED PLAYERS only here)

[brett friggin favre]

game was over on day 3.
town had no chance since day 3.

Day 4 vote would not of happened if any one but chikun was voted. Out come from the beginning of day 4 was inevitable.

---------- Post added at 03:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 AM ----------

i wonder what other op powers the 3 mafia had apart from blocking investigations and lynch proof... Lynchproof on mafia being the most OP thing if there isnt a town aligned killer. Like there wasnt. Town was doomed from the beginning.

OP mafia powers? there were 2 of us the whole game, me (gf) and carm (framer + 1 shot poison). how is that OP compared to a town with a forensic investigator and a sensor, AND a cult with multiple recruiters? OP mafia? please...the only reason chikun joined us at the end is because his power was to turn mafia when lynched. he was VT the whole time and nobody even knew about that power lol.

[Chikun]

Bottom line. I was originally right and I'll still hold this against you fuckers.

[brett friggin favre]

Bottom line. I was originally right and I'll still hold this against you fuckers.

That was fuckin impressive, chikun.

[Nemesis]

Out of respect for those playing the game and for Cyber, I said I would hold off on how the mods manipulated the game until it was over, so as not to ruin the game for those playing.

Here we go.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

chikun, sorry i got duped by locusts investigation, but i was claiming carm as mafia since day 2. All you fuckers swore up and down it was me.

Lets hear it nem, let it rip.

[Nemesis]

Ok, so we'll start this off.

First, I was the Cult Leader, the only cult leader. In my role description it said I could convert anyone until we outnumbered the town and mafia was gone. The only exception was I could not recruit mafia members. So I double checked; I could recruit anyone? Yes, besides mafia. Regardless of any immunities or bulletproofness? Yes. So, who would you all choose first? That's right, the one guy whose been both declared town and obviously given some sort of protection at night to save him: Aco.

So I send in my actions and what do I get told? Sorry, you can't recruit Aco. I ask why? Fuck you, that's why is what I get. I complain that this is unfair as I was told I could recruit anyone, regardless of their protections, yet I can't recruit Aco.

The answer I get from What is, "If you complain to me you'll be replaced. I love little boy cock and you're bothering me." Real helpful mod there...

The answer I finally get from Cyber is, "We're planning something special for Aco, and you can't recruit him." So this is where I have my grievances. This game is not meant to have set pieces, yet the mods were clearly influencing events in order have their set pieces activated. This is unfair to the players as it destroys the integrity of the game. I voiced these opinions in my usual fashion (ie. called What a cunt a whole lot.) These conversations i naturally forwarded to Cyber so I could get some real answers as well, because Cyber actually had good intentions at heart, regardless of what happened.

All the while Cyber is laughing about What getting angry and states how What can be somewhat....cuntastic. Anyways, we continue.

Next night I recruit Blade, because I need him to speak against how he JUST FUCKING SAID I was 100% Mafia...

...and it worked. I was able to shift pretty much everything off of myself and onto mikey. He was gonna be lynched (had all the votes already) and by taking blackmage that night we would be looking pretty good.

Anyways, around midnight I get a msg, out of nowhere, from What saying, "if you continue to undermine the Mods you'll be blah blah blah..." He went on for a while in his high and mighty tone. Anyways, he got tiring after a while and I told him to shove it.

An hour later What once again manipulated the game and removed me, once again showing up all his massive, sandy vagina.

There's much more but I think these points are enough for now.


Again, I want to make it clear that I think Cyber had the best of intentions for this game. He did a good job but there were some glaring issues, some of which I feel will be corrected next game, especially since Tom will be with him.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

next game... Randomly assign roles, this is the fairest way to start the game and assign players to roles. Use Random.org/lists or something.

I also feel this game was off balance a bit along with the constant mod interruption. I feel alot was learned from this game and would some of the following to carry over to the next. 1. Randomize role assignment. 2. Be more clear with the rules and game mechanics. 3. Learn from the complaints players have. 4. dont assign a set mod agenda for pure mod entertainment... let the game play out as it should.

[DJ_MikeyRevile]

things i did like
1. Sorry tom ): but i think the scenes were written better. More engaging. I also like how each player had a role relevant to the era.
2. Strict time keeping, i like this faster paced games. It makes them more invigorating.
3. Not shy on enforcing rules.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

HOW IN THE NAME OF EVERLOVING ME DID I SURVIVE TO THE END?

guys, i was a 100% vanillia townie. I have ABSOLUTELY NO POWERS. the extent of my shit was being painted as a target day 1, yet a single failed murder and suddenly i was completely untouchable, haha.

[CYBER]

things i did like
1. Sorry tom ): but i think the scenes were written better. More engaging. I also like how each player had a role relevant to the era.
2. Strict time keeping, i like this faster paced games. It makes them more invigorating.
3. Not shy on enforcing rules.

Thank you.

Now to answer nem.
I'm about to take a shower and head for class where i would spend the mind-numbing 2 hours typing up everything that happened that night.
For now? i just leave u with an answer on your first part and your first part only, which is regarding aco:

You have to know smthn about this game, call it bastard modding? fine, but the game was pretty damn balanced. But it wasn't balanced from the start. Actually from the start? town was OP AS FUCK!!!... but u guys killed off ur investigations.... i cant blame you, they claimed their roles too early rly instead of waiting an extra night and go all or nthn .... obvious jeopardizing the chance of being recruited, had they known.

Cult was weak at first, 1 person, no one else. And in this ENTIRE game, only 1 player had a immunity against being recruited ... ACO.
WHY?
No, not because we manipulated the game... no not because we wanted to make aco a shiny trinket later on...
NO.

It was because, as i said above, many of you had dual-roles. A role that was sent out to you. and a trigger that was documented by the mod, and sent to tom to verify its integrity when the trigger is.. well.. triggered.

Aco was the baby jesus, innocent child. However, the hidden trigger that he didn't know about, was that he would become The messiah, a Restless a Sprit (who can continuously vote on the thread even after death.)
I can show u full quote of me and What arguing our ASSES off at the beginning. BEFORE THE GAME. we established every possible scenario that could happen, and we made sure we tried to cover anything before the game. and once we made a decision and wrote it in the notebook, we never came back to question it. (Tom can attest to that.)

Hell, on day 2, even when it was sooooo early in the game, i even asked myself "what would happen if chikun, the judas role, got recruited", and i argued with What preemptively, and sent tom a message saying that IF CHIKUN WERE TO BE RECRUITED THEN KILLED, he doens't revert to mafia because he would know the identity of the cult members. In fact, if chikun is recruited, his "Cult goon" role would overwrite his "townie vanilla + trigger" role, and the trigger would never happen. Tom can attest that i sent this before cult was eradicated, and thereby before knowing whether this would happen or not... so again, any "tough" ruling was always pre-emptive and never selective and NEVER NEVER EVER WHILE it happened. ideally, cult never went for chikun nway, but this is just to prove that we had a ruling on every possible scenario before it even happened.


Now, you tell me nemesis, what would you have preferred?
At first, BEFORE the game, i had this possible ruleset for aco vs recruitment (yes, i spent a lot of time thinking of THIS scenario exactly because im not dumb nem, i KNEW deep down that the best move for cult is to go after a confirmed townie... and i was right), and those were my suggested ruleset to What
:
- Aco doesn't know that if he dies, he becomes a restless spirit with permanent post-mortem death.
- Restless spirit will be allowed to vote, and only vote. It cannot contribute anything to the conversation. Bcos fuck u, thats why.
- Aco can be recruited as townie, but if he dies as townie before recruitment, he stays as townie as spirit (i.e a dead spirit cant be recruited)
- Aco can be recruited as townie, if he dies while recruited, the spirit is still recruited (because we cant have it revert to town again and risk it blowing the cover on the cult members)
- if the restless spirit was part of cult still, then due to the cult leader's ability, the restless spirit's ability become 1-shot and can only vote once after dead.
- if aco dies while recruited, we just say "baby jesus has been nailed to the cross" and never mention again if he is still a townie or not, it's up for the people to realize that the spirit voted more than once or only once post mortem, IF they even realized that there was a cult... (not fair for town now is it?)

What's counter arguement;
- Why not just make aco unrecruitable and avoid this fuckfest to begin with?
- If u tell the restless spirit he can only vote once bcos he was recruited, that defies the whole reason to have a restless spirit in the first place, and u cant give it infinite votes, it's op for cult and defies the cult leader ability.
- If cult tries to recruit aco, we'll just say that "recruitment failed"... really, the ONLY player other than the 2 mafia that cult wont be able to recruit is ACo... i think the odds are decent enough for cult to get the remaining 7/11 players?
- Cult is a very powerful role and almost op on a small number of people, what good is it to have a confirmed townie by mods if cult is just gonna recruit him on day 1... people will think that Mod confirmations are not legit and question any modding we do?
- It's going to be a mess to keep track of aco's ability with cult especiallly if there was protection and nexus and mafia attacks and roleblocks... and inspections etc... so just make it that he cannot be recruited due to the fact that post mortem he must be a townie, and that can only happen if aco remains townie.

Cyber;
- ergh... i guess... i'm not too happy with that because i like having mind fucks in a game... but it would make our life easier
- So if cult asked to recruit aco, we say recruitment failed? As long as we don't mention specifically in the scene the existence of a cult, fine... or else cult is screwed (u're welcome nem btw... that's why the existence of cult wasn't known until u died...)

What:
- fine by me. so do we agree on these rules? oh and... you don't tell aco that he's immune to recruitment because that would reveal existence of cult

Cyber: no shit! -.-

*Cyber sends this entire conversation to TOM, proving in fact that before the game even started, and before nemesis even considered recruiting aco, that i thought of this possible scenario beforehand and made sure we knew what to do pre-emptively.
NOTE that at the time, roles haven't been spread out yet... so, nem, that's why i was telling u not to think that What was trying to screw u over...
you weren't even assigned to your role yet! and you thought he was trying to take things personally bcos of the other game, when in fact, those rulings were made beforehand.


Now here's the thing... that was a RULING. it could change between games and it's not always the same as it's rare to have these specific roles in the same game usually, so it was hard to find a prior example of such scenario...we had to make our mind on a ruling and stick to it and hope for the best BEFORE the game even started.
And we learned quite a lot actually.

Was it the right move to make aco unrecruitable? i don't know. i think it worked out fine because it helped townies not get overrun by cult immediately... but screwed cult over at first. true.
So again? right move? i don't know. did it affect the game? oh hell yeah, would we do it again? i dont know...
i really don't know...
u see these rulings are easy to question in retrospect because of the game outcome.. but think about it ..for all we know? if Blackmage hadn't protected aco on day 1, mafia would have killed aco (assuming u didnt convert him) and he'd be a restless spirit and problem solved...
it's that damn interference that made u get pissed at us thinking we manipulated the game...

and think about it... if i actually went with my INITIAL setup of aco rulesets? then u'll see that on night 1, there was a chance that u recruit aco, and that mafia killed him instantly...
he would have died with a ??? role... and peopl would have questionned either the existence of a jailkeeper... or that his role got changed -> cult...

so yeah that's all i need to say about the aco thing... i know it's a long post.. but this is just to prove that in fact, i made damn sure that cult existence wasn't accidentally revealed by making everything vague.

i'm sorry if u had personal issues with What... but you need to understand something: in mafia games, it's EXACTLY like playing in ibis servers... if you think the admin/mod screwed you over... do NOT QUESTION the admin/mod or call him a cunt in the game/thread.... instead, wait and post it on the forums so that others can assess his admin abuse (in here, u'd wait till after the game, like now).
If you were in game, and even if the admin did smthn shitty and u stalled calling him a black cunt... u know damn well that u'd be banned temporarily from the game, even if u were absolutely right... (im not saying u were or werent...)

So agian, rule of thumb, if u have a concern regarding a mod RULING, feel free to ask. u asked and said "BULLSHIT no recruitment" , we said " that's how it is ,u'll see at the end of the game"... that's all u needed to do, let it go... us mods really tried to make everything balanced (even some roles were bastard, they were balanced if people played right)...and if we ever made a mistake u bet ur ass i'd admit to it after the game, not before, because that might affect game outcome.

so now, u have my defense that we always knew beforehand what to do, and it was never against u , and nthn was ever manipulated.
was it the right call to make aco unrecruitable? i dnt know. did we decide to do it just bcos of u ? oh hell no. did we follow the ruleset that we sent to TOM for documentation purposes should anything "hard" happen? yes.
sorry if it wasn't to your advantage... but for all u know, if we made aco recruitable, we might have had the SAME bitching.. but from a town-aligned player, regarding the fact that they would assume that mod-confirmed players are supposed to stay townies...

in mafia, there is no 1 rule.. there is no right answer... there's a decision to be made, and we made ours after spending an alnighter talking on steam voice to make a decision with tom being brought in temporarily at some point.
so yeah, sorry if u think we screwed u over... we were simply following the rulebook we wrote... regardless of the outcome.

and i hope this answer let's u believe in my integrity as a mod, even if u had personal bickering with What... me and What kept eachother in check.
and i hope that u join the next game with me and Tom...

--------------------------------

i'm posting snapshots of the night actions... feel free to ask me about anything, but i wont go in detail in them unless specifically pointed into a specific direction by a player... since What and i already went through everything that happened and possible scenarios like a billion times by now ...