dude, i did stuff. i protected people each night i was alive for.Originally Posted by Nemesis
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dude, i did stuff. i protected people each night i was alive for.
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Which is what you're suppose to do. You did things without being loud about it. Something Mikey, for example, could never accomplish.
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Oh God, Paraselli's in for next game. This kid seems like a total twatwaffle.
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calm yo tits nem
I hit Brett right in the feels.
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Just the Queen of twats, no?
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And so, welcome to my wall of text end post
First, given what Cyber said about this being a learning game, I went in using a lot of metagaming. Figured we'd have the fox river 8, suspected we'd have the extra two, plus Sara and Bellick, and no idea on the last 2. T-Bag and Bellick were auto suspect, Sara, Micheal, Lincoln, and Sucre were good. Some people I could take guesses on roles too. Plus, guessing at the number of VT/Goons. As soon as I got my role, everything started falling in place. I'm curious if all the new players were given the boring roles on purpose, or if the RNG was just feeling spiteful. As for Cyber's "play", just a few bumps, but nothing major, nothing you did changed the gameplay and didn't have to modkill anyone. Thanks for the game Cyber
I was mentioning some other ways this game could have gone. Micheal, Lincoln, and someone else as Mafia, everyone else trying to kill them "trying to use their escape plan". Mutliple mafias, options including: T-Bag's group, Cops, Abuzzi's people, C-Note's people, the company. Sara being a far less than perfect doc. Haywire being an insane cop. Bellick being a cop in general. Any one of a number of characters being vengeful. Micheal being Cult leader
Here's what I was doing with my play. I started out by trying to feel out the game. Given the quick request for NL, trying to find an acceptable way to get information. Brett was seeming odd, Nem, wolf and Mikey were being themselves, Tom and What were pushing for a lynch and pretty much everyone else was trying to figure out what to do. When that first N-1 vote hit, I had been watching. I was actually risking Irish's life to confirm there was no auto-hammer or double voters. Finding out there were no voting roles was a little more than I expected to get, but what I was expecting in the game. Sadly, Irish was a lost cause due to the deadline, so I had to look at what little I had. Once night hit, it was either follow Brett or What, due to his "safe" N-1 vote, but since Brett was seeming to claim an information role, it wasn't a very hard choice. If he doesn't visit anyone, he's not useful, but might be scum. If he visits a dead person, all hell probably would have broken loose. Luckily, the third option happened, he visited someone who survived.
Day 2 starts, an amazing night ensued. With a power role Mafia dead, a 3rd party dead, there probably wasn't another powered Mafia, only a passive (Ninja, Godfather, bulletproof) or some 1 use item. Worst case, a 1 use day gun, which I'm SO GLAD wasn't in the game. I rushed to get on to make my statement before Brett did, in case he was going to out Mikey as scum, so I could try to get myself clear. That worked better than planned. Mikey claims, so I figure I know who an ally is. Nem starts going heavily dark side, we don't have a cop claim and we do get a couple VT claims. Then OB/Brett happens, we get no cop to come out and say "way too much information" and day 2 ends. I consider following Brett again, but given that wouldn't help, and might look scummy decide to look for new information. I could have visited him and claimed to have visited the dead guy as long as he didn't, but that seem convoluted and silly. I had to choose between Aco, Phil and Nem, so chose Nem because he was the most scummy, and therefore if he did something, the easiest to push.
Day 3 starts, I post my information, again trying to get it out before my target gets any claim out so I can catch them in a lie in this case, and to cause the unclaimed to be wary. Mikey and Nem both ask for me to reveal that information anyway, so I go to sleep to avoid them. I post a little in the morning, staying out of the conversation as much as possible, trying to get as much information out as possible so I can set up on the day 4 lynch. Then the game is over
Yes, I went into the game fairly sure of a lot of things, but I'll still be paranoid about things existing till the game's over. Trust nothing and no one. Not even your own scum-mates.
Onto my comments on players.
Tom: You got killed day 1, after trying to be helpful. I hate unprotected SK, but knowing you were made some conclusions easier.
What: Pretty much the same as tom :P Your death confirmed a little more about the game's composition.
Aco: Your doc powers worked perfectly. Day 1 dodged saving scum, Day 2 there was nothing you could do. You hid yourself, and looking back I see what might have been a soft claim that I missed. I quite enjoyed your game even if you didn't seem to do much.
Irish: Wish you'd figured out what to do earlier, I think it would have been interesting. Thanks for playing.
Locust: Wish you hadn't role claimed quite as fast, just flavour. After it was done, it changed my approach a little.
Lily: VT sucks as a role, but thanks for trying. Hope you enjoyed it. I did enjoy when you defended your claim of Maytag, because my first thought when I saw that claim was "is Lily trying to play mind games with us?". I COULD see Maytag being mafia, as Nem did, but because you got a secondary character, you could have easily claimed ANY other secondary jailbird. I figured it was just a strange choice for a VT from Cyber, given the vanilla Mafia was at least a bigshot. Probably would have looked at you come Day 5.
Wolf: Thanks for filling. With phil's goodbye, I was wondering if you were delaying because you were a cop, and Brett was mafia again. Hope you can actually play a game some time in the future
Kion: What I said in my last post to you sum up my feelings for that.
Mikey: If I wasn't pretty much sure you were innocent from my pregame mindset, I'd have thought you were either dangerous, or scum. However, I did enjoy your soft claim of bodyguard. When you said that, I was pretty sure we'd have a second non-perfect healer. I did agree with your plan as well. What I didn't like was your talking in general, because it seems like something neither scum NOR town should be doing. You were trying to get people to reveal too much information too easily, which is dangerous for town. I think my problem with you is you trust people in this game, and seem to expect everyone to.
OB: If I wasn't about 99% sure that bomb was a fake claim, that was a BRILLIANT claim. I was trying to figure out if you were actually a Macho Cop or not. Macho cop, being something that actually WORKED for Bellick, if you accept he's good. Even if I could have believed a Bomb claim, I wouldn't have, I would have believed you were trying to fake claim from a Macho Cop. Macho Cop being believable with the game set, working with Bellick. If you WERE a bomb claiming Macho Cop instead makes you a target. As a note, in this case you could have claimed Macho Cop cleared someone you know is clear, so they believe you. Would have also put doubt on that person, moreso if they had claimed VT Day 2. If you hadn't backed into the corner and claimed Haywire, it could have been interesting when you claimed Bellick. Nicely done.
Phil: That last spite post. That was brilliant. I actually was there when you posted it. I delayed hammering because I needed some time to figure out what my plan for day 4 was. In the end, it involved tracking Wolf, if he visited someone who didn't die, out him as the cop and go hard on Brett. Otherwise, try to figure out if Cyber or Nem was dicking with us. With only Lincoln left, it was possible he was really Lincoln, and Cyber was messing with us, or Nem made an educated guess when you didn't just claim Lincoln. Lincoln being mafia would have been a neat twist, and would have been a more clear teaching role to show, don't trust WIFOM. Only problem I saw with your scenario was with Godfather, one mafia has 2 power roles, one only had 1. If you'd have claimed to be working with OB, it would have been more believable. Doesn't matter given there wasn't another but just my observation, and like I said, even so, I took 45 minutes deciding what to do. That lawyer claim wasn't so great, probably should have gone for, again, macho cop :P Macho means you DON'T claim early, and cop would have thrown suspicion on Brett, and again, it worked with your claim of Veronica.
Brett: After day 1, I wasn't sure if you were trying to hurt the town with the NL, or were trying to soft claim information role. I'm VERY wary of someone asking for information who suggest NL. So I followed you. Turned out to work perfectly in the end. You made day 2 golden. We watch 2 scum off each other, I make a vague claim with my role claim, and I read your reply as "yes, I know you followed me, I'm pretty much what you think". Not sure why I was still expecting a cop and not a watcher/voyeur, but it certainly made everything drop in place, and made life easier. Your push on OB day 2 was nicely done as well. Day 3, after Nem's push for everyone to claim except him, I didn't feel like fighting with him, so I was happy when you posted exactly what I was feeling. I figured if I died night 3, either you were mafia, or you'd take us to victory. Great game sir, I agree with Cyber's MVP claim for you.
Nem: I didn't really realize how much your game bothered me till I started typing. You get a paper! TL;DR: You were more scummy than Mikey was, and did (basically?) nothing helpful that entire game. Shooting the Nexus and hitting a scum isn't useful, nor is trusting a known insane cop, even if it comes up with a good result.
After some nonsense, you start talking as if their is an encrypter, and suggesting people were telling new players to play poorly. Your first vote was either a joke vote or a serious vote based upon WIFOM. I was leaning towards the latter with your pushing it with no one asking. Once voting for Irish started, other than you being your normal brash self, nothing really to point at, due to an unfortunate combination of deadline and new player. I wonder how things would have played out without the deadline. It does go to show what I meant about deadlines only helping the mafia, however.
Day two starts with you making a claim that is patently wrong (always have standard ANYTHING). Heck, Cyber mentioned he was supposed to be weak, not standard. You then make a comment I forgot about, saying you acknowledge that 9-4-1 was possible. You pushed for someone to claim Micheal or Sucre, which I was wondering if that was a suggestion to your allies. Then, you start directing all discussion away from you. You then threaten one of the only people I currently trust (somewhat), Brett. After your little overnight, you go silent for over 24 hours, which you've been complaining THE ENTIRE TIME about other people doing, come back and say "we're done getting information", proceeding to lay out a plan that has two results. One involves OB having lied about his second claim, which means all sorts of bad things are happening, but you ignore that fact, the second which involves threatening the player who outed him as scum and threatening an unspecified number of people. Just Mikey, it turns out. And then declaring yourself correct with nothing to back yourself up. Then, the mafia that dies? Just a goon, not a power role, which is the perfect person to bus. So night 2, I followed you.
Day 3 starts, you list 4 people who you want to claim, even though I have a list that clearly lists one of them as fully claimed, and ignoring the two people who are FULLY unclaimed, you being one of them. Proving you don't pay attention, you suggest I can clear someone, something I've said I CAN'T do, threatening anyone who disagrees with you, and setting a deadline for the unclaimed people. Which again means rushing the town and not bothering to get as much information as we can. I post, and you immediately responding doing two more things. First, saying yesterday's great plan you had no longer counts, and we SHOULDN'T follow through. Second, pushing for information that you think might clear you and in no way helps the town. I decide to not reply till the morning and let more people talk as a result before justifying myself. Once I do that, you're suddenly agreeing with me, and generally trying to get on my good side. You've decided that it is only one more mafia, the only new information since last night being that had a Goon. You quickly vote for Lily based upon a claimed flavour. Then, you begin the push of "everyone but me CLAIM".
So, let's recap what you've done this game. Pushed to get a VT lynched, pushed to deny the town information, ignored any requests for information on you, kept threatening people, and going back on what you said, joined a vote that was on an outed scum who happened to be a throwaway mafia. You also were showing no strong conviction in that vote. Now you're saying we NEED to lynch Lily AND demanding that Phil must claim. You follow up on saying Phil would be scum for doing things you were doing right then. Phil soft claims, you ignore that and continue to press, he flavour claims, you IGNORE IT AGAIN, and, having totally given up on the person we NEEDED to lynch, vote for phil. Kion and Brett are still pushing for information from you, which you continue to brush aside. You continue to say "what I'm doing is exactly what scum would do." You eventually claim Linc. All your claim of Lincoln did was make me think you were Abbuci and for some reason Lincoln wasn't in the game. Notice, you FINALLY claimed after everyone else had flavour claimed and all but two of the FR 8 had been claimed, and except for Maytag, the misc characters all made sense. I only posted that your claim made sense to try to make you think I trusted you so you wouldn't shoot me overnight. Phil finally full claims, and suddenly you're back to possible 2 mafia left, declaring you'll be killing someone. You insult Kion when he tries to vote you, which is an entirely reasonable plan. You complain that you aren't getting your way and ask for a possible VT to be mod killed. I never shared that I followed you that night because I sure as hell didn't trust you, and figured you were either a ninja, or just had Phil do the dirty work last night.
I can sum up what I saw you do for the town in one word: nothing. You were less than worthless. You may have gotten multiple people to not rejoin us, and are actively still pushing for that, when we don't have enough players to begin with. You were playing scum from the first day. I was only certain you weren't scum after the game ended. You kept trying to force people to give information while purposely giving none of your own. You could have easily at the start of day 3 flavour claimed Lincoln, but no, you have to wait until you have free reign to claim. You kept flat out saying you were scum over and over again. You couldn't keep your story straight. You were ignoring everyone. You demanded that everyone follow someone who wasn't cleared. You used so much WIFOM that you put mine to shame. What exactly did you do positive for the town? Even your pushing of Phil had been suggested beforehand, one of the first things I said Day 3 was we might want to mass claim.
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I'm not quoting you but I can see you're problem, You put way too much emphasis on what players do, rather than what they say.
Vigilante isn't good for much at the beginning of the game because just shooting people is detrimental, obviously. So the best bet to pick as many fights as you can to both see how they respond and who defends who. The game started with no one doing anything, in fact I seemed to have to push everyone along constantly. It's not how I really wanted to play but whenever I didn't post no one said anything. Hell, on day 2 everyone should have jumped on OB for lying and doing such a poor job at it, but no one did. I waited to give someone else the chance to step up and everyone just sat there until I posted.
Also late day two I knew Phil was scum and could confirm it in day three, however day two I was really hoping to get targeted by the Mafia since you were going to follow me (I confess I did confuse you and Brett on which was which, and with the site being down I couldn't check). Whether I got a hug or not would have shown a lot as well.
I feel that too much is given in the summery write ups but I guess that could be used to someone's advantage. The issue I had at the start of day two was in all previous games I've played the mod stating a character was "busy" means they were role-blocked, where the issue was that Cyber wrote that the doc was busy, and therefore just confirmed to the mafia that What had hit the doc and assuming everyone knew each others actions would have been a big misstep, but it worked out to just being Cyber's style (like pointing out What as mafia in the first day that multiple people picked up on but was just a coincidence)
Once a VT has claimed their usefulness drops to basically being an easy lynch since it's a clear shot to not hit something useful.
God, you know you're just making a lot of bad calls it's too much to go through. You're very short-sighted, unfortunately, and it shows. You miss a lot and luckily you had Brett and also that I was able to clear you.
The new people who did nothing at sat there for a week are players we don't want back. Fuck, we said many times to ask for help and to ask questions. the fact that they didn't is obvious. we also knew from the start that they were VTs with the odd chance of one of them included in the mafia.
You play much too passively which is often the reason you need to be carried through these games. Fuck.
IBIS
The bottom line we can get from this game is that the setup was intentionally made for tutorial purposes to ENCOURAGE discussion (hence the multiple "Weak" investigation roles, instead of 1 solid cop).
Everyone has their own play style, and as a player, sometimes you need to understand that someone who is active all the time and leading you doesn't always make you a good guy. (hint hint. nemesis). he MIGHT be right, but you always need to formulate your own opinion of the game or try to do some guess work and weed out the impossibilities, like blackmage did.
Blackmage second guessing nemesis is perfectly fine due to how they played, and in fact, i admit that town was CONSIDERABLY strong AFTER night 1.
I started out with a list of roles that had modifiers :
- Aco was WEAK doc
- mikey was MACHO bodyguard.
- Nemesis had 3-shot vigilate.
- Tom had 2 vests serial killer.
- and Old bastard was gonna be BELLICK GUARD THE JAIL KEEPER (lawl), while T-bag Phil was gonna be Ninja Mafia (you know, to balance the other 2 investigation roles.) and What was the godfather (i just noticed again that i always write fucking "What" with a cap -.- just fyi...).
- A couple roles were more randomized btw, CLEARLY you guys saw that my "friends" or "veterans" had power roles this game (except locust, blow me), but at first when i randomized it, fucking BEST NOOB was the voyeur, lily was a vigilante, and blackmage was a doctor again... that's how it started, but i realized that if any of the NEW PLAYERS left the game or became inactive, i'd be fucking over town discussions, or not knowing when to claim or soft claim... and considering this game was meant to be a TUTORIAL, not a real "play to win" game, i re-arranged the roles a BIT to give power roles to people who weren't gonna disappear....
Can you imagine this game if lily had been the vig, or bestnoob leaving the game as voyeur (hence why i said FUCK I GOTTA RE ARRANGE SHIT , like nem pointed out), etc? it wouldnt have been discussion-full. which is the sole purpose of this game: get people active and talking.
However, BECAUSE i promised a SIMPLE game, i went overboard with shaving off as many "extra words" as possible from characters and almost created a fucking loop by accident (that's a bump right there lol), but i handled that by waiting the game to play out instead of fucking up the setup. I learned from my mistakes as a mod before
- also nemesis, mafiascum was down RIGHT after the game started... that fucked me over bcos i had to google cache EVERYTHING asked of me so that i avoid conflicting answers, SEE THIS for YOUR question about bodyguard returning fire or not: And you can clearly see i noted to myself to mention the possible circular protection that i noticed A LONG TIME ago in the setup, right after i sent out the roles btw... by accidentally sending off shaved off setup that i was test running at the time, before i notice the loop.
That being said, everyone has their game style, and it was a pleasure for me to make an EASY game for tutorial purposes,,, but beware : THE NEXT FUCKING GAME I MAKE WILL BE MORE CONVOLUTED... i promise you that. So suck on my dick and hope for the best next time haha
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here is a list of the NIGHT actions, which also subtly explains the setup i had:
NIGHT 1:
NIGHT 2:
WHAT IS HILARIOUS is that town could have easily fucked itself over:
Had mikey protected tom or What this game on N1, while Bllackmage tracked Brett, and Brett visited MIKEY... OH bOY... all hell would have broken loose on day 2 when mikey would have been found dead by protection. Or if nemesis kill mikey, which is always possible lol... i never thought that What and tom would go after eachother like that from the start... i should have remembered the bad blood between them from the scrim days lol...
If NEMESIS killed someone night 2, while blackmage targetted him ... there was ANOTHER FOS from blackmage on nemesis there. and assuming brett wasn't lynched on day1 bcos of bm, he'd also be questionned for killing off a voyeur, and old bastard and phil wouldnt have been baited by the deceased brett lol... etc... there's a LOT that could have happened where town could have been confused as fuck... that's what happened in my 15 trials of the game: town had 45% chance to win, and mafia had 40-45% chance to win, with SK having about 10-15% chance depending on a couple variations with modifiers...
So yeah night 1 COMPLETELY tipped over the game to town side by PURE LUCK lawl... usually mafia and sk have their way with town until at least day 3 where ppl start questioning wtf is happening... this was a rare case to have town on the roll from the start, unlike all games we played so far.
GG and wp all... hope to argue with u in the next game
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lol btw BLACKMAGE and brett... NOW you can see why i forgot to fucking send you guys your results when i posted the night scene 2... i forgot to put a reminder to myself -.-
< - idiot
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And What told me has planning on roleblocking TOM and killing NEMESIS... can you imagine what would have happened if he made that decision instead of vice versa?
tom would have been blocked and serial killer would be alive, What would have been ALIVE from that, and nemesis would have been dead from the start...
A COMPLETELY different game that is lead by someone other than nemesis lol...
it all came down to ONE action at night 1, that tipped off teh entire game... just saying, everything and anything can happen
Last edited by CYBER; 05-28-2014 at 02:29 AM.
IBIS G0D
Cyber, if Tom had vests why did he die?
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Also, the game being thrown off balance night one isn't the mod's fault, it was quite a bit of luck and the game itself was set up very hard for the town to win.
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Also, if I targeted anyone it would have been Old Bastard just because I don't like him so it would have probably been ok.
IBIS
tom didn't have a vest. he ORIGINALLY had a vest in my FIRST draft of the setup, before i shaved off ALLLLLLLL modifiers in the game, whether x-shot kills/vests etc, or modifiers like "weak, macho etc" ... so that i try to simplify the game terms for the new playerrs...
now that they learned a couple new words and modifiers and possible roles from blackmage and mikey throwing words like "ninja, bomb, 50 50 , weak, etc..." the next game that What makes might be a tad more "involved (to avoid saying complex)" with the roles and tweaks.
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ALL in all... i would like to ask the veterans AND the new players.. what did you think of THIS tutorial game modded by ol' Cybie?
be honest.
IBIS G0D
Other than all the PMSing it wasn't bad. Inactive and bad players ruin it despite Blackmage's bleeding heart, but hopefully next game has people who want to play.
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